IRC log of aria-apg on 2015-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:02:33 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/04-aria-apg-irc
17:02:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs member
17:02:37 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:02:37 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM already started
17:02:38 [trackbot]
Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:02:38 [trackbot]
Date: 04 May 2015
17:02:43 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make log world
17:03:04 [jamesn]
s/Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference/Meeting: ARIA APG TF
17:03:11 [jamesn]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:03:11 [Zakim]
On the phone I see James_Nurthen, Ann_Abbott
17:04:09 [Zakim]
+Matt_King
17:05:45 [jongund]
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17:06:09 [mattking]
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17:06:41 [Zakim]
+Jon_Gunderson
17:08:34 [janina]
zakim, code?
17:08:34 [Zakim]
the conference code is 92473 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), janina
17:08:52 [Zakim]
+??P8
17:09:17 [janina]
zakim, ??P8 is me
17:09:17 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
17:09:29 [jamesn]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:09:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see James_Nurthen, Ann_Abbott, Matt_King, Jon_Gunderson, janina
17:14:18 [Zakim]
+Bryan_Garaventa
17:15:38 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Status and review of current master branch https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html
17:15:38 [jamesn]
Agenda+ John's example development questions
17:15:38 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Discuss readiness for review
17:15:40 [bgaraventa1979]
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17:15:46 [jamesn]
agenda?
17:15:58 [jamesn]
zakim, close item 1
17:15:58 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Status and review of current draft https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html, closed
17:16:01 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:16:01 [Zakim]
4. Wording of editor notes [from jamesn]
17:16:09 [bgaraventa1979]
zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
17:16:09 [Zakim]
ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
17:16:17 [jamesn]
zakim, clear agenda
17:16:17 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
17:16:21 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Status and review of current master branch https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/practices/aria-practices.html
17:16:21 [jamesn]
Agenda+ John's example development questions
17:16:21 [jamesn]
Agenda+ Discuss readiness for review
17:36:34 [annabbott]
Reviewed Button design pattern - changes made based on group input.
17:49:21 [jongund]
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17:50:15 [Zakim]
-janina
17:51:14 [jongund]
JN: We put in discussion points in check ins
17:51:24 [jongund]
JN: If the button indicates ....
17:51:40 [jongund]
AA: If the button action indicates a context change
17:51:48 [jongund]
JN: I am happy with it later
17:52:13 [jongund]
AA: After 3rd bullet, indicates a context change
17:52:46 [jongund]
MK: If the button action indicates a change of context, e.g. a wizard
17:53:09 [jongund]
JN: Add another search criteria, maybe appropriate to move focus to another place
17:53:30 [jongund]
MK: For the starting point of the "action"
17:54:01 [jongund]
JN: ... reads the proposal ...
17:54:07 [jongund]
AA and MK: WOW
17:54:28 [jongund]
AA: We know have 5 bullets
17:54:37 [jongund]
JN: Any objections?
17:54:41 [jongund]
none ....
17:55:16 [jongund]
MK: As far as button goes, the next one is checkbox, section 2.7
17:55:45 [jongund]
MK: I am happy with dual state and tri-state descriptions
17:56:09 [jongund]
MK: Bikir though he saw some edits..
17:56:15 [jongund]
JN: I will take care of it
17:57:34 [jongund]
JN: Why is checkbox not a word
17:58:25 [jongund]
JN: Checkbox is one word in Wikipedia
18:00:58 [jongund]
AA: Dual-state and tri-state are hyphenated words
18:01:17 [jongund]
JN: Fixed spelling error on checkbox
18:01:24 [jongund]
JN: Anything else?
18:02:37 [jongund]
MK: I did some substaintial updates to links
18:03:05 [jongund]
AA: For checkboxes we have several things referring to a visible label for a group
18:03:15 [jongund]
AA: Are there cases for no visible label
18:03:43 [jongund]
MK: If there is no visible label that usually no grouping label
18:04:08 [jongund]
JN: Sometimes there is a implied grouping label
18:04:30 [jongund]
MK: Checkbox grouping labels seem to be over used
18:04:53 [jongund]
BG: What about buying paints....
18:05:23 [jongund]
BG: Depends on how it is arranged, it is not always the case, it sometimes it does add value
18:05:49 [jongund]
MK: In my experience it is over done, grouping of checkboxes is not handled well by AT
18:06:19 [jongund]
JN: WCAG 2.0 requires grouping if it is visible grouping, like a border, even without a border
18:06:36 [jongund]
MK: That is enough for the AT users
18:06:57 [jongund]
JN: If there is a border then it must be conveyed
18:07:23 [jongund]
MK: It can just be styling, when it does it clutters the screen reader
18:08:07 [jongund]
JN: I am not saying you add a label, you can just have a grouping role without a label
18:08:26 [jongund]
JN: It ismore than just visual styling, they are grouped together
18:09:03 [jongund]
BG: A lot of people use CSS to convey grouping, you can make somethings look related but they really not
18:09:30 [jongund]
BG: Grouping can be used to differentiate between grouping and non-grouping
18:09:48 [jongund]
MK: Most real groups need to have a label
18:10:16 [jongund]
BG: The role group does have to be used (e.g. MK OL and UL)
18:10:39 [jongund]
MK: Integrating mobile ...., we could just delete grouping references
18:10:51 [jongund]
JN: I am fine with what it says now
18:11:02 [jongund]
AA: I wanted to know if the group needs a label
18:11:51 [jongund]
JN: 1.3.1 is a catch all for that
18:11:56 [jongund]
MK: Let's move on
18:12:15 [jongund]
MK: The defect helped me to address a number of issues
18:12:24 [jongund]
AA: We are in link now?
18:12:27 [jongund]
MK: Right
18:13:16 [jongund]
MK: The changes were editorial
18:13:32 [jongund]
JN: Space doesn't execute a link
18:13:38 [jongund]
MK: I thought it did
18:13:55 [jongund]
MK: Browsers don't support space, screen reader do
18:14:00 [jongund]
JN: I will change that
18:14:36 [jongund]
MK: The second bullet in the ARIA states and roles, that I was thinking of adding to other roles
18:15:53 [jongund]
JN: I am concerned about tabindex > 0
18:16:18 [jongund]
MK: I agree can we say that here?
18:16:25 [jongund]
JN: Doesn't this apply to all of these widgets?
18:16:56 [jongund]
MK: Some we do and some we don't, should we include this bullet or variation ...
18:17:18 [jongund]
JN: I disagree, I want these to be short and sweet
18:17:48 [jongund]
MK: They would vary based on the widgets and widget between widget, getting people to the right place in the document is important
18:18:18 [jongund]
BG: A particular widget needs focus needs ...
18:18:34 [jongund]
JN: I see that all the time, this is general stuff, it is the same on them all
18:18:59 [jongund]
MK: It is not the same, for example ina dialog box you need to put it on something in the dialog box
18:19:13 [jongund]
JN: It depends on how you are doing it
18:20:00 [jongund]
BG: I see this alot, for example radio buttons, and the focus is one a span inside, we need to make it perfectly clear it has to be on the element with the widget role
18:20:29 [jongund]
JN: Repeating it will get in aurhos way
18:20:46 [jongund]
MK: I think the pattern refer ....
18:21:12 [jongund]
JN: I think we should log an issue, I am concerned about consistency
18:21:24 [jongund]
MK: Delete here?
18:21:27 [jongund]
JN: Yes
18:22:35 [jongund]
AA: We are 9 minutes to the end, do we have some house keeping?
18:22:55 [jongund]
MK: I have it hear so you can just delet it and I will copy before I do a pull
18:23:02 [jongund]
JN: Was the note new?
18:23:26 [jongund]
JN: It is not a link unless you have the HREF
18:23:54 [jongund]
JN: The Shoft+F10, why is it repeated here?
18:24:03 [jongund]
MK: I think we need it here
18:24:15 [jongund]
AA: I made it down to listbox
18:24:34 [jongund]
AA: The fifth bulet..., show have a visible label
18:24:49 [jongund]
AA: People are going to jump all over that
18:24:56 [jongund]
JN: I will delete that
18:25:09 [jongund]
AA: That one stuck out
18:25:30 [jongund]
MK: I didn't finish the selection part, I hope it is done enough
18:25:41 [jongund]
MK: It was really confusing....
18:26:03 [jongund]
MK: It should have been a control+/...., hwy didn't it come through
18:26:25 [jongund]
JN: Where did the entity numbers come from, where they in there before?
18:26:29 [jongund]
MK: no
18:27:06 [jongund]
MK: we do not want to use checked in list, so this ...
18:27:21 [jongund]
MK: These are just normal listbox keys
18:27:29 [jongund]
AA: I have not heard of them (JN me too)
18:28:10 [jongund]
MK: I am having trouble iwtht he tags in here, so there might be some tag problems
18:28:35 [jongund]
JN: my editor is not throwing any problems, it looks right
18:29:13 [jongund]
JN: I will look at these to get them right if you can look ...
18:29:28 [jongund]
MK: we need to name our branch ....
18:29:50 [jongund]
JN: Can we just use "wd"?
18:29:59 [jongund]
MK: I am good with that
18:30:05 [jongund]
JN: We need to include the date
18:30:18 [jongund]
MK: No punctuation?
18:30:22 [jongund]
JN: Good with me
18:30:38 [jongund]
MK: Should I include the actual URL?
18:30:52 [jongund]
JN: I think you forgot the number sign
18:30:55 [jongund]
MK: Opps
18:31:16 [Zakim]
-Jon_Gunderson
18:34:15 [mattking]
Proposed RESOLUTION: The APG TF submits the following branch as working draft ready for working review. https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/wd20150504/practices/aria-practices.html
18:35:19 [jamesn]
I dunno what you expected, but it ain't here.
18:40:07 [mattking]
Proposed RESOLUTION: The APG TF submits the following branch as working draft ready for PF working group review. https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/wd20150504/practices/aria-practices.html
18:41:12 [mattking]
RESOLUTION: The APG TF submits the following branch as working draft ready for PF working group review. https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/wd20150504/practices/aria-practices.html
18:41:42 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:41:42 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/04-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:41:59 [mattking]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:41:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/04-aria-apg-minutes.html mattking
18:42:15 [jamesn]
zakim, list attendees
18:42:15 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been James_Nurthen, Ann_Abbott, Matt_King, Jon_Gunderson, janina, Bryan_Garaventa
18:42:17 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:42:17 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/04-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:42:38 [Zakim]
-James_Nurthen
18:42:40 [Zakim]
-Bryan_Garaventa
18:42:42 [Zakim]
-Ann_Abbott
18:43:06 [mattking]
zakim, bye
18:43:06 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were James_Nurthen, Ann_Abbott, Matt_King, Jon_Gunderson, janina, Bryan_Garaventa
18:43:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:43:22 [mattking]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:43:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/04-aria-apg-minutes.html mattking
19:18:16 [jongund]
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