15:05:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:05:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-irc
15:06:05 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, this will be  WAI_CogTF
15:06:05 <Zakim> ok, Lisa_Seeman; I see WAI_CogTF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 54 minutes
15:06:46 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets:Chaohai Ding , E.A. Draffan, John Rochford, steve lee
15:17:37 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda: this
15:17:38 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  review of agenda, new items,
15:17:40 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  review of actions,techniques
15:17:41 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  SVG issues
15:17:43 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ Personalization and JSON issues
15:17:44 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ Taxonomies and other issues
15:17:46 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  Should we be talking about globish?
15:17:47 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  issue papers: Gathering User Preferences
15:17:49 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ be done
15:51:54 <Zakim> WAI_CogTF()12:00PM has now started
15:52:00 <Zakim> + +1.718.618.aaaa
15:56:52 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, aaaa is me
15:56:52 <Zakim> +Lisa_Seeman; got it
15:58:03 <Zakim> +??P16
15:58:40 <Zakim> -??P16
15:59:44 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:59:46 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #coga
16:00:30 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, [IPcaller] is Jamie
16:00:30 <Zakim> +Jamie; got it
16:00:58 <JamieKnight> JamieKnight has joined #coga
16:01:06 <JamieKnight> Hello
16:01:19 <Lisa_Seeman> Hello Jamie!
16:01:33 <JamieKnight> Hello Lisa_Seeman
16:01:37 <JamieKnight> ok
16:02:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:40 <Mike_Pluke> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:02:40 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
16:02:46 <JamieKnight> Hello Mike_Pluke
16:03:07 <Zakim> +ayelet_s
16:03:08 <Zakim> +??P4
16:03:18 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #coga
16:04:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
16:04:52 <Lisa_Seeman> scribe: mike
16:05:14 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who is noisy?
16:05:17 <JamieKnight> I'm hearing repeat on the audio?
16:05:18 <Tony_Doran> Tony_Doran has joined #coga
16:05:18 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:05:25 <Zakim> Lisa_Seeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jamie (25%), Mike_Pluke (51%)
16:05:33 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
16:05:36 <JamieKnight> have muted my end
16:06:04 <MichaelC> scribe: Mike_Pluke
16:06:15 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, next item
16:06:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "review of agenda, new items," taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:06:25 <Zakim> + +44.289.442.aabb
16:06:40 <Tony_Doran> Zakim, aabb is me
16:06:40 <JamieKnight> thanks
16:06:42 <Zakim> +Tony_Doran; got it
16:06:48 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #coga
16:06:58 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/track/actions/open
16:07:06 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
16:07:37 <neilmilliken> neilmilliken has joined #coga
16:07:59 <Zakim> + +1.804.986.aacc
16:08:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:08:22 <Zakim> +neilmilliken
16:08:33 <ayelet_s> ayelet_s has joined #coga
16:08:54 <Zakim> + +1.512.659.aadd
16:09:18 <Susann_Keohane> zakim, aadd is Susann_Keohane
16:09:18 <Zakim> +Susann_Keohane; got it
16:10:52 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who is here?
16:10:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Lisa_Seeman, Jamie, ayelet_s, Michael_Cooper (muted), Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Debbie_Dahl, Tony_Doran, +1.804.986.aacc, [IPcaller], neilmilliken, Susann_Keohane
16:10:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see ayelet_s, neilmilliken, Susann_Keohane, Tony_Doran, richardschwerdtfeger, ddahl, JamieKnight, Mike_Pluke, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, MichaelC, janina, janina_,
16:10:55 <Zakim> ... trackbot
16:11:30 <Lisa_Seeman> action: lisa to write up new time lines
16:11:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-101 - Write up new time lines [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-05-04].
16:11:32 <Tony_Doran> q+
16:11:42 <JamieKnight> Wiki would be preferred by me
16:12:00 <Lisa_Seeman> Jamie/ typing is fine
16:12:16 <Mike_Pluke> Mike Pluke said that he would try to complete his two outstanding actions by the next weekly meeting.
16:12:36 <JamieKnight> Sounds good
16:13:24 <Mike_Pluke> Tony will try to complete the attention and distraction item within the agreed time
16:13:51 <JamieKnight> Any thoughts about ID10 . Who / DSM regarding Autism?
16:14:14 <Mike_Pluke> Ayelet will continue to work on action 89
16:15:09 <Mike_Pluke> The remaining actions were reviewed.
16:15:43 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #coga
16:16:05 <Mike_Pluke> Ayelet's email referring to out-of-date material in the user research document was raised.
16:16:09 <JamieKnight> i would say no.
16:16:19 <JamieKnight> I would say we enable communication, how its used is up to the user.
16:16:37 <ayelet_s> q+
16:16:47 <JamieKnight> This is a problem for users without any issues.
16:16:51 <Mike_Pluke> There was a question on whether other dementia's that, for example, cause inapprorpriate behaviour should be covered.
16:17:14 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Safety
16:17:40 <Lisa_Seeman> ack tony
16:17:41 <JamieKnight> I would say out of scope, as inappropriate behaviour happens from people with and without disabilities.
16:17:59 <JamieKnight> thanks :D
16:18:49 <JamieKnight> Okay, one mo
16:18:52 <JamieKnight> Let me type my reply :D
16:19:01 <ayelet_s> great
16:19:02 <MichaelC> ack me
16:19:21 <JamieKnight> Sorry, no speech today, i had it, then it went.
16:19:24 <Mike_Pluke> q+
16:19:46 <JamieKnight> Thanks
16:19:50 <Lisa_Seeman> ack ayelet
16:19:55 <Tony_Doran> q+
16:20:01 <ayelet_s> don't forget to take me off the speaker que :)
16:20:13 <MichaelC> q+ to talk about Web scope
16:20:18 <Lisa_Seeman> Jamie as soon as you are ready
16:20:31 <ayelet_s> q-
16:20:58 <JamieKnight> inapporepate behaviour is a matter of opinion. This is a huge issue in the autism world, expression (even when not ideal) is expression, if someone lands in prison due to bad behaviour, that is one of ways they get help.
16:21:22 <Tony_Doran> Jamie++
16:21:27 <JamieKnight> I think its a very grey area, its about who controls the editorial stuff. Eg, culture, religion etc.
16:21:32 <Tony_Doran> You have the right to be offensive.
16:21:40 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa mentioned a potential solution for inappropriate behaviour in the form of a social channel with a built-in delay.
16:21:47 <Mike_Pluke> +1
16:21:51 <Tony_Doran> If that is what you want. It is content production in a way.
16:21:52 <JamieKnight> For example, someone who i knew was in a religious care home, they considered his sexuality part of his "autism" and tried to "cure" it.
16:22:03 <neilmilliken> I agree with Jamie I think this is the thin end of the wedge]
16:22:18 <neilmilliken> we open the door to censorship
16:22:22 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:22:31 <Mike_Pluke> q-
16:22:41 <Lisa_Seeman> ack tony
16:23:03 <ayelet_s> what if we just have a mechanism to alert people that their content may be viewed as inappropriate?
16:23:15 <JamieKnight> ayelet_s: i could see value in that.
16:23:22 <JamieKnight> ayelet_s: may be very hard to develop tho.
16:23:36 <Tony_Doran> Yep - they could chose to ignore and not be bothered again
16:23:54 <MichaelC> ack me
16:23:55 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to talk about Web scope
16:23:58 <Tony_Doran> It wouldn't be easy to make agreed ;)
16:24:37 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa queries whether there could be an issue paper on this topic
16:24:59 <Mike_Pluke> Michael suggesting that this could be out of scope for W3C
16:25:00 <ddahl> It would be very difficult to know if conduct is appropriate or inappropriate in general, there are a lot of cultural differences, too
16:25:14 <JamieKnight> is the accommodation ways of asking for help? For example, my line manager often helps me draft emails. Eg, proactive requests rather than censorship?
16:25:20 <JamieKnight> More help by collaboration.
16:25:44 <ayelet_s> such things do exist in relation to terrorism, there might be a similar mechanism that could be made, maybe not
16:27:21 <MichaelC> ack me
16:27:33 <ayelet_s> that's a great idea Jamie
16:27:41 <neilmilliken> q+
16:27:45 <JamieKnight> MichaelC: probably not web scope imho.
16:29:56 <Mike_Pluke> Neil argues that it could be within W3C scope - even though he is sceptical about pursuing this work. Therefore may be OK to do an issue paper.
16:30:45 <JamieKnight> support to learn / contribute rather than a gateway to communities?
16:31:21 <JamieKnight> I have the same poison as neil, skeptical but open to the idea of a paper
16:31:26 <MichaelC> I can imagine a ¨technique¨ for documentation to help people with cognitive disabilities, and we say in the technique the sort of things that should be documented.
16:31:32 <JamieKnight> *position
16:31:46 <JamieKnight> can you repeat what you said please lisa
16:32:05 <neilmilliken> +1 for exploratory paper
16:32:11 <ayelet_s> +1
16:32:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1
16:32:16 <JamieKnight> +1 worth thinking about questions
16:32:23 <Mike_Pluke> +1
16:32:52 <Tony_Doran> +1 for the paper but again not sure what we can do here.
16:33:04 <Mike_Pluke> Consensus is for an issue paper.
16:33:09 <ayelet_s> I'm not sure I have the right skill sets and education, but if no one else volunteers then I will try and research it
16:33:35 <JamieKnight> ayelet_s: i would be happy to collaborate? Ive not done anything like this before tho, so i can't promise i will add velocity.
16:33:55 <ayelet_s> 4th, if you include finishing the citations, but it's all right
16:34:31 <Mike_Pluke> Ayelet and Jamie will collaborate with Debra to review/edit it
16:34:36 <ayelet_s> Jamie, I'd love to collaborate though I'd also be new at it.
16:35:05 <MichaelC> ack me
16:35:26 <Lisa_Seeman> action: Ayelet and Jamie will collaborate with Debra on issue paper to address help appropriate behaviors
16:35:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-102 - And jamie will collaborate with debra on issue paper to address help appropriate behaviors [on Ayelet Seeman - due 2015-05-04].
16:35:50 <Lisa_Seeman> ack neil
16:36:06 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:36:32 <Lisa_Seeman> topic: SVG issues
16:38:09 <JamieKnight> +1 like that idea :D
16:38:38 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:38:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/SVG_Accessibility
16:38:49 <Mike_Pluke> Richard is asking for any issues related to cognitive accessibility that can be taken into account when developing the SVG work
16:39:47 <jamieknight_> jamieknight_ has joined #coga
16:40:02 <jamieknight_> I have some idea's whats the best place to send them?
16:40:32 <Lisa_Seeman> here,
16:40:35 <jamieknight_> okies
16:40:36 <Lisa_Seeman> or on the list
16:40:40 <Lisa_Seeman> here is great
16:42:14 <Mike_Pluke> Potential cross-cutting issues with mobile and SVG
16:42:23 <jamieknight_> i have 3 items, is it good to mention them here?
16:42:32 <Lisa_Seeman> yes please do!
16:42:44 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:43:01 <Mike_Pluke> Questions such as what might need to be added to a chart, or navigation techniques to make things easier for people with cognitive issues.
16:43:50 <jamieknight_> To add to what lisa is saying, when a graphic contains multiple flows, the ability to hide nodes to just show one flow for example, so i can understand the process then see all the examples.
16:43:50 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa suggested some ideas such as highlighting parts of graph to co-ordinate with spoken description.
16:44:04 <jamieknight_> aka: "bility to remove node from complex diagrams to show just one example end to end (e.g. for flow diagrams with dozens of flows)"
16:44:06 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:44:44 <Zakim> - +1.804.986.aacc
16:44:59 <Lisa_Seeman> clear easy to use icons
16:45:11 <Mike_Pluke> Another suggestion, from Lisa, when making icons with SCG is there a way of saying who this icon is suited for?
16:45:27 <jamieknight_> for example, you could tag an icon as "literal" . "metaphor" for people with autism.
16:46:18 <neilmilliken> Like that jamie
16:46:29 <jamieknight_> "wash you hand in the toiled (metaphor)" - "wash you have before leaving the bathroom. Do not wash hands in the toilet basin"
16:46:45 <jamieknight_> *toiled = toilet
16:47:48 <Lisa_Seeman> action: lisa to check that litral or mefor is in the page of suggested aria sematics
16:47:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-103 - Check that litral or mefor is in the page of suggested aria sematics [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-05-04].
16:48:33 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Svg_comments
16:49:04 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:49:05 <jamieknight_> yes
16:49:15 <Lisa_Seeman> ok we will weight for you
16:50:04 <jamieknight_> Another one i find very difficult was a way of representing venn diagrams, e.g. when objects overlap the SVG tree does not have a way of saying items overlap, so for example, in a venn diagram its hard to know how much they overlap (a little or a lot)
16:50:38 <jamieknight_> Eg, "Autism and MMR" overlap 0%.... Autism and Obsession would overlap 50%
16:51:04 <jamieknight_> yes
16:51:16 <jamieknight_> very hard to guess at surface area
16:51:22 <jamieknight_> Also useful for blind users?
16:52:18 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
16:52:23 <jamieknight_> not sure how to achieve it. but would be super useful to know how much a venn diagram overlaps on hover for example.
16:53:04 <neilmilliken> Q+
16:53:11 <Lisa_Seeman> also needs to adress dyculcla
16:53:22 <Lisa_Seeman> ack neil
16:54:37 <jamieknight_> venn diagram has hidden meaning
16:54:47 <Mike_Pluke> Neil suggests that for dyscalculia the problem would be an understanding of the underlying concepts (e.g. the numbers). Charts as such can be problemantic.
16:56:40 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:57:03 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Easy_Personalization
16:59:10 <jamieknight_> Thats a great idea!
16:59:58 <Mike_Pluke> Lisa introduced the Easy Personalization approach (described in the above link) - with examples.
17:01:50 <Zakim> -ayelet_s
17:02:09 <Lisa_Seeman> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2015Apr/0094.html
17:02:17 <Zakim> -Susann_Keohane
17:02:35 <Tony_Doran> I need to drop off.
17:02:42 <Zakim> -Tony_Doran
17:03:11 <Zakim> -Debbie_Dahl
17:03:16 <ddahl> ddahl has left #coga
17:03:27 <ayelet_s> my phone threw me off the call and I  can't get back on
17:03:33 <jamieknight_> CSS styles would work, but they would need to be higher in the cascade IMHO
17:03:35 <Lisa_Seeman> OK WE ARE ENDING
17:03:39 <jamieknight_> okies, yay!
17:03:44 <Mike_Pluke> Revisit this topic next time. Could possibly be used to tweak what we are doing with JSON scripts.
17:04:04 <jamieknight_> Thanks, yay *blushies*
17:04:11 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:04:35 <jamieknight_> great thanks :D Much appreciated. Its very comfortable :D
17:04:57 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, make logs public
17:05:05 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, create minutes
17:05:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
17:05:13 <MichaelC> ack me
17:05:29 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, please part
17:05:29 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.718.618.aaaa, Lisa_Seeman, Jamie, Mike_Pluke, ayelet_s, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Debbie_Dahl, +44.289.442.aabb,
17:05:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:05:32 <Zakim> ... Tony_Doran, +1.804.986.aacc, [IPcaller], neilmilliken, +1.512.659.aadd, Susann_Keohane
17:05:39 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, please part
17:05:39 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-actions.rdf :
17:05:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: lisa to write up new time lines [1]
17:05:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-irc#T16-11-30
17:05:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ayelet and Jamie will collaborate with Debra on issue paper to address help appropriate behaviors [2]
17:05:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-irc#T16-35-26
17:05:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: lisa to check that litral or mefor is in the page of suggested aria sematics [3]
17:05:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-irc#T16-47-48
17:05:40 <jamieknight_> Goodbye all, have a fab day!
17:05:46 <Lisa_Seeman> Thanks Jamie
17:05:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
17:05:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-irc
17:06:27 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
17:06:33 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html MichaelC
17:07:03 <MichaelC> meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force
17:07:09 <MichaelC> chair: Lisa_Seeman
17:07:11 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim: who is here
17:07:11 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:07:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/27-coga-minutes.html MichaelC
17:07:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #coga
17:07:21 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim: who is here
17:07:22 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2642
17:07:23 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_CogTF()12:00PM
17:07:25 <MichaelC> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:07:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Lisa_Seeman, Michael_Cooper
17:36:26 <MichaelC> zakim, bye
17:36:26 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.718.618.aaaa, Lisa_Seeman, Jamie, Mike_Pluke, ayelet_s, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Debbie_Dahl, +44.289.442.aabb,
17:36:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:36:28 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
17:36:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items