07:05:24 RRSAgent has joined #auto 07:05:24 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-irc 07:05:28 Zakim has joined #auto 07:06:50 djensen47, no but we will take minutes 07:06:58 ok 07:08:58 osamu-n_ has joined #auto 07:12:29 zakim, who is here? 07:12:29 On the phone I see ??P0 07:12:31 On IRC I see osamu-n_, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, djensen47, ted 07:13:04 I think I'm ??P0 07:16:32 neat 07:16:44 zakim, call kazuyuki-skype 07:16:44 ok, kaz; the call is being made 07:16:45 +Kazuyuki 07:17:07 zakim, who is here? 07:17:07 On the phone I see djensen47, Kazuyuki 07:17:09 On IRC I see osamu-n_, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, djensen47, ted 07:17:21 hirabayashi has joined #auto 07:18:05 I heard somebody say hello and some background noise. 07:18:28 on sec 07:18:47 JonathanJ1 has joined #auto 07:19:25 Paul_Boyes has joined #auto 07:19:27 wonsuk has joined #auto 07:19:45 urata_ACCESS has joined #auto 07:19:57 Justin_LGE has joined #auto 07:20:25 Qing_An has joined #auto 07:21:19 Qing_An has joined #auto 07:21:21 abramski has joined #auto 07:21:35 -djensen47 07:21:43 Present+ Jonathan_Jeon 07:21:48 zakim, who is here? 07:21:48 On the phone I see Kazuyuki 07:21:50 On IRC I see abramski, Qing_An, Justin_LGE, urata_ACCESS, wonsuk, Paul_Boyes, JonathanJ1, hirabayashi, osamu-n_, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, djensen47, ted 07:22:01 Jade_Obigo has joined #auto 07:22:07 +??P0 07:22:25 zakim, ??P0 is djensen47 07:22:26 +djensen47; got it 07:22:46 scribenick: ted 07:22:57 WilliamHan has joined #auto 07:23:10 hello all 07:23:18 hello all 07:23:36 PeterW has joined #Auto 07:23:36 KevG has joined #auto 07:23:52 William_Obigo has joined #auto 07:24:47 Topic: Introductions 07:25:02 Topic: BG vs WG 07:25:15 Topic: Introductions 07:25:26 JonathanJ1 has joined #auto 07:25:46 Qing_An_ has joined #auto 07:25:55 adam: we'll start off with introductions, explain the differences between the business group and the working group 07:26:15 ... agenda outline deviates a bit from email as we went over based on feedback 07:26:53 ... there has been quite a bit of input to date on the vehicle api spec in the wg 07:27:06 ... we'll review the state of the spec 07:27:11 -Kazuyuki 07:27:33 ... we will be more formal about use cases and requirements 07:27:36 zakim, call kazuyuki-skype 07:27:36 ok, kaz; the call is being made 07:27:37 +Kazuyuki 07:27:47 ... there is desire to have a conformance test suite 07:27:54 ... we'll discuss securiry and privacy 07:28:01 zakim, who is here? 07:28:01 On the phone I see Kazuyuki, djensen47 07:28:03 On IRC I see Qing_An_, JonathanJ1, William_Obigo, KevG, PeterW, Jade_Obigo, abramski, Qing_An, Justin_LGE, urata_ACCESS, wonsuk, Paul_Boyes, hirabayashi, osamu-n_, Zakim, RRSAgent, 07:28:03 ... kaz, djensen47, ted 07:28:52 zakim, drop me 07:28:52 Kazuyuki is being disconnected 07:28:53 -Kazuyuki 07:29:19 zakim, call kazuyuki-skype 07:29:19 ok, kaz; the call is being made 07:29:20 +Kazuyuki 07:29:32 ... we have presentations planned from KDDI and ACCESS on their early implementation. we had an enlightening presentation last time from JLR on what they ran into on implementation feasibility in their case 07:29:40 Qing_An has joined #auto 07:29:59 ... there will be a call for editors. we have some house keeping things to take care of as well 07:30:12 zakim, drop me 07:30:12 Kazuyuki is being disconnected 07:30:14 -Kazuyuki 07:30:22 ... spec maintenance and timeline, call cadence and of course future meetings 07:30:42 zakim, call kazuyuki-skype 07:30:42 ok, kaz; the call is being made 07:30:43 +Kazuyuki 07:30:45 trackbot has joined #auto 07:31:25 ... please feel encouraged to speak up at any point 07:31:28 zakim, who is here? 07:31:28 On the phone I see Kazuyuki, djensen47 07:31:30 On IRC I see trackbot, Qing_An, JonathanJ1, William_Obigo, KevG, PeterW, Jade_Obigo, abramski, Justin_LGE, urata_ACCESS, wonsuk, Paul_Boyes, hirabayashi, osamu-n_, Zakim, RRSAgent, 07:31:30 ... kaz, djensen47, ted 07:31:51 adam: my name is Adam Abramski, I have been involved since the workshop in 2011 07:32:46 ... i came from a more mobile background, moved over to IVI and started coming to Genivi 07:32:57 ... i have done quite a bit of work web side on mobile 07:33:22 -djensen47 07:33:36 ... Genivi has things called Expert Groups, there was a Korean group with work on a signals specification 07:34:24 ... there was interest in taking that early work and turn it into standards. at Intel i do project management for tier 1 and oem in auto 07:34:51 -Kazuyuki 07:34:52 Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended 07:34:52 Attendees were djensen47, Kazuyuki 07:35:01 paul: i'm Paul Boyes. i started getting involved in Genivi in 2013. my background in software is for the military and medical 07:35:26 ... i'm employed by OpenCar 07:36:03 Present+ Wonsuk_Lee 07:36:23 @@@: project manager for work with auto manufacturers. interested in vehicle spec 07:37:03 @@@ from Obigo. from a technical background i am in charge of business development now 07:38:23 jake: I am Jake Moon working at Obigo. we have been working on browsers for some years. we are doing work with BMW on IVI browser and involved in Genivi 07:39:31 @@@3: I work for ACCESS. last year i implemented with KDDI browser and the current vehicle API 07:41:15 Here is a link to the spec analysis presentation that JLR gave in Oct 2014: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/internal-autowebplatform/2014Dec/att-0000/JLR_to_W3C_Presentation_presented_at_genivi.pdf 07:41:16 justin: my name is Jeon Park and work for LG. i am involved in creating web OS platform for various products. i hope to make more time for standards work 07:42:13 QIing_An has joined #auto 07:42:14 osamu: my name is Osamu Nakamura and work for W3C from Keio and site manager there. we are extremely interested in automotive activity 07:42:23 @@@4 07:42:45 kevin: my name is Kevin @@@5 and work for JLR. we have been involved in the bg and working group 07:43:47 peter: my name is Peter Winzell and work for Mitsubishi. i have been following this effort since the workshop in Rome but only getting involved now 07:43:51 bgidon has joined #auto 07:44:40 osamu-n_ has joined #auto 07:44:44 ... I'm involved in software development and we are working with Volvo on IVI. we are doing some R&D with a local university and might be able to do a reference implementation there 07:44:50 ... also very interested in security 07:44:54 ted@@@ 07:46:51 bernard: I am Bernard Gidon and work for W3C from France, focused on Business Development for Europe, Middle East and Africa 07:47:22 ... besides automotive, i am also on wot 07:49:14 @@@6: very interest in IoT/WoT, have some previous experience on specification editing 07:49:27 @@7 07:51:22 tatsuhiko: I am Tatsuhiko Hirabayashi from KDDI. i hope to share with this group our findings on implementing vehicle api 07:51:36 Topic: BG vs WG 07:52:11 adam: the difference between a BG and WG are subtle 07:52:46 ... BG can write reports, the reports can vary in nature including producing early specification work 07:52:56 s/@@@6:/wonsuk:/ 07:52:58 jonathan: @@j 07:52:58 kaz: W3C staff contact for this Automotive WG with Ted 07:53:01 hira: from KDDI 07:53:01 adam: BG can't publish any Web standards 07:53:03 ... use cases, requirements etc 07:53:11 osamu-n has joined #auto 07:53:16 scribenick: kaz 07:54:59 JonathanJ2 has joined #auto 07:55:19 adam: we WG can get W3C staff contacts 07:55:23 ... GENIVI has been involved with the BG for years 07:55:23 ... they have open codes 07:55:23 ... e.g., speech recognition 07:55:25 ... GENIVI was wondering how the Auto BG could help them 07:55:28 comparison group type - https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/compare/ 07:55:45 s/@@@: project manager/havald: my name is Havald Walter. i am a project manager with T-Systems and / 07:55:52 Peterw has joined #Auto 07:56:18 adam: we can collaborate with other groups 07:56:28 ... in our charter, there is a section on liaison 07:56:35 s/@@@ from Obigo/william: my name is William Han from Obigo/ 07:56:41 ... the list includes 15-20 organizations 07:56:48 ... security is one of the target topics 07:57:07 i/jake:/jenny: Jenny Jeon from OBIGO/ 07:57:16 Paul_Boyes has joined #auto 07:57:33 s/jake: I am Jake/jade: I am Jade/ 07:58:01 adam: would show some slides 07:58:12 ... on the difference between the groups 07:58:28 s/@@@3: I work for ACCESS/shinjiro: I am Shinjiro Urata and work for ACCESS/ 07:58:41 (Inputs to Standards Process) 07:59:25 s/Jeon Park and work for LG/Justin (Jeon Seon) Park and work for LGE/ 07:59:58 process figure - http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/chairs-part4/#/35 08:00:14 s/@@@4/adam: i am Adam Crofts from JLR/ 08:00:33 s/Kevin @@@5/Kevin Gavigan/ 08:01:06 s/ted@@@/ted: my name is Ted Guild and one of the groups' two Technical Contacts/ 08:02:14 adam: Community Group (or Business Group) there 08:02:16 ... W3C Members can work with the groups 08:02:19 ... we started with the workshop, created a business group 08:02:19 ... the business group has 130 participants 08:02:24 ... a lot from automotive industry 08:02:24 zakim, who is here? 08:02:24 apparently Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended, kaz 08:02:26 On IRC I see Paul_Boyes, Peterw, JonathanJ2, osamu-n, bgidon, trackbot, William_Obigo, KevG, Jade_Obigo, abramski, urata_ACCESS, wonsuk, hirabayashi, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, 08:02:26 ... djensen47, ted 08:02:28 zakim, who is here? 08:02:28 apparently Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended, kaz 08:02:29 On IRC I see Paul_Boyes, Peterw, JonathanJ2, osamu-n, bgidon, trackbot, William_Obigo, KevG, Jade_Obigo, abramski, urata_ACCESS, wonsuk, hirabayashi, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, 08:02:30 ... djensen47, ted 08:02:30 s/@@@6: very interest/wonsuk: I am Wonsuk Lee with ETRI. I am also very interested/ 08:02:55 ... the BG could help us 08:03:02 s/@@7/jonathan: my name is Jonathan Jeon from ETRI/ 08:03:08 ... may generate use cases and requirements 08:03:17 s/may/BG may/ 08:03:26 ... GENIVI is doing a lot 08:04:12 rrsagent, make log public 08:04:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:04:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 08:04:18 I got disconnected too 08:04:33 adam: WG is a place for creating standards 08:04:52 ... some WGs concentrate only one spec 08:05:02 ... some does many 08:05:21 ... it's up to groups 08:05:34 ... how to solve security for Web applications, etc. 08:05:52 ... there are a lot to learn from what SysApps WG does 08:06:32 ... the group can decide how to do 08:06:57 ... what's our first focus area? 08:07:11 ... one team can do some topic, and another team can do another topic 08:07:22 Present: Adam Abramski (Intel), Paul Boyes (OpenCar), Hvald Walter (T-Systems), William Han (OBIGO), Jenny Jeon (OBIGO), Shinjiro Urata (ACCESS), Justin Park (LGE), Osamu Nakamura (W3C), Adam Crofts (JLR), Kevin Gavigan (JLR), Peter Winzell (MELCO), Ted Guild (W3C), Bernard Gidon (W3C), Wonsuk Lee (ETRI), Jonathan Jeon (ETRI), Kaz Ashimura (W3C), Tatsuhiko Hirabayashi (KDDI). on phone Dave Jensen 08:07:42 ... there are several people who participate in both the BG and the WG 08:08:11 ... may work on security, media api, speech, etc. 08:08:54 adam: any questions? 08:10:02 ... the BG is on its rechartering procedure 08:10:24 bernard: the key point is this is YOUR group 08:10:43 ... you can do anything 08:11:36 ted: can have task forces to handle privacy 08:11:41 ... can talk with the privacy IG 08:12:18 adam: because we have a WG, we have W3C staff who help us 08:12:32 s/help/helps/ 08:13:09 ... feel free to talk with them 08:13:54 hira: given the WG has been established, wondering about the need for the BG 08:14:00 q+ 08:14:19 paul: there is a different level of membership 08:14:24 -> http://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Potential_Work_Areas Possible Work Areas identified at previous F2F 08:14:57 hira: it might be better to have a single group by merging both the BG and the WG 08:15:02 ack t 08:15:12 ted: WG should be focusing on the REC process 08:15:24 ... test suite, liaison with related groups 08:18:14 BG is more an incubator for new areas as identified earlier 08:22:00 s/experience on specification editing/experience on specification editing for SysApps/ 08:23:03 wonsuk: in sysapps, tizen has tried to make their own apis as has firefox os and chrome 08:23:26 scribenick: ted 08:23:48 ... we reached concensus on scope of work for sysapp between those parties 08:25:02 ... i can see this BG and WG arrangement where the former provides possible use cases and requirements 08:25:32 ... we need to try to make small sets of specifications at first and we can add on to that over time 08:26:17 ... we need to focus on core pieces like this api and then we can extend it for the rest of the ecosystem 08:26:51 adam: accomplish a small chunk first, build a test suite around it and then see if there is more that should be added or if the BG or others in the mean time have additional use cases to consider 08:27:57 ... the BG work on the draft spec was more ambitious than i expected, i thought we would only get 50 or so signals not the 200+ 08:28:14 ... i'm very interested in KDDI experience and reminiscent of JLR's report on theirs 08:28:46 kevin: the people at JLR that worked on that are based out of Portland, Oregon 08:29:32 ... some of the internal issues included the physical constraints or lack of data pathways through specific buses 08:29:55 ... there were also business cases for being reluctant to expose some pieces 08:30:05 bgidon has joined #auto 08:30:45 adam: one of the things that surprised me was that oem did not have certain rights from third party ecu 08:31:15 paul: i agree, starting small on something you can work on is worthwhile. it was a small core that drove the draft bg spec 08:31:54 ... one of the obstacles is indeed people holding back for competitive advantage and reducing the common pool that can be standardized 08:32:02 Harald has joined #auto 08:33:25 kevin: the current and next product line is set in their ways, the research branch working on future products are increasing awareness and usefulness of open standards 08:33:54 adam: it took a couple years to get where we are at with the spec. we started with a couple rough proposals 08:34:35 ... we needed to merge LGE and Intel work (amigo/tizen) 08:35:25 ... there was a group from the EU that webinos, w3c, bmw explored other possible spec work including nav and vehicle data 08:36:31 Qing_An has joined #auto 08:36:47 ... there is a common set of data elements all oem are suppose to expose through ODB-II (on-board diagnostics) standards, required by governments but of course there are differences there 08:37:15 ... we found enough common ground from all these 08:37:45 ... all of those pieces that contributed are public 08:37:59 ... we had quite a few contributions from PSA, GM and JLR 08:38:00 https://github.com/w3c/automotive-bg/blob/master/W3C%20Vehicle%20API%20Creation%20Guidelines%20v4.docx 08:38:16 ... BMW early on from webinos side but then faded away 08:38:55 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-autowebplatform/2013May/att-0026/W3C_AutoAPI_Comparison_newQNXAPIs_23May13_v1.xlsx 08:38:56 ... we had good input from oem 08:39:07 kaz_ has joined #auto 08:39:08 Justin_LGE has joined #auto 08:39:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:39:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz_ 08:39:23 paul: much of this is online and linked from those resources in irc 08:39:44 ... you can also find a fair amount of history on the wiki 08:40:16 ... the specs were broken in to two parts since the access methods seemed stable and the data was subject to more change 08:41:01 ... one of the things that come up is concern for system load in providing this data 08:41:20 ... we should organize a primer and history 08:41:37 ... the initial use cases were kept deliberately simple to keep the scope narrow 08:42:07 ... some of the higher level use cases move well beyond the spec 08:42:54 ... Kevron Rees (Intel, co-editor with Justin Park LGE) gave a walk through on a teleconference to this WG recently 08:43:14 adam: have most people looked at the two specs? 08:45:11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-autowebplatform/2013May/att-0025/vehicle-api-comparison.xlsx 08:45:38 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015Mar/0057.html 08:45:43 q+ 08:46:05 tatsuhiko: if there are additional interests from people in this WG can we 08:46:44 kaz: if we create task forces from this WG we need approval and input from chairs on how to organize 08:47:28 Qing_An_ has joined #auto 08:47:30 ... including when to send things back to the BG 08:47:50 paul: biggest thing is we need to get people together and actually contribute to the work 08:48:05 Qing_An has joined #auto 08:48:23 s/back to the BG/back to the BG, and we could think as if the BG were a big TF of the WG :)/ 08:51:36 Qing_An has joined #auto 08:52:17 kaz has joined #auto 08:57:44 Seems like there's a break? 09:06:40 there's a coffee break now? 09:07:01 Or lunch. 09:08:29 Seems we are the only two here 09:10:42 And now I need to go. 09:10:45 break 09:10:51 Have a good meeting everybody, I'll be looking forward to reading the minutes. 09:13:08 s/Havald/Harald/g 09:13:17 djensen47 has left #auto 09:13:55 Present+ An Qing (Alibaba, phone) 09:15:02 i haven't on the phone yet.i will try the skype again 09:15:12 Gabriel_Kepeklian has joined #auto 09:15:35 Present+ Joel Hoffman (Consultant) 09:16:34 osamu-n has joined #auto 09:17:15 Present+ Gabriel Kepeklian (Vedecom) 09:17:17 09:17:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:17:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 09:17:37 Topic: KDDI + Access Vehicle API and Data Spec implementation 09:18:19 scribenick: kaz 09:18:49 (2: SIP Credit) 09:19:00 urata: governmental project 09:19:05 (3: About ACCESS) 09:19:24 (4: Netfront Browser NX) 09:19:34 urata: HTML-based UI 09:19:47 ... used by Nintendo and Sony 09:19:53 (5: SIP) 09:20:21 urata: cross-ministerial strategic innovation promotion program 09:20:45 ... next generation ITS study 09:21:11 (7: SIP) 09:21:35 urata: participants include KDDI, ZMP and ACCESS 09:21:42 ... 3-year project 09:22:44 ... two types of experiments: vehicle API implementation experiment, probe data collection 09:22:47 (8: Goal) 09:23:03 wonsuk has joined #auto 09:23:07 urata: goal of the vehicle API implementation experiment 09:23:24 ... evaluate APIs' feasibility 09:23:39 (9: Onboard Hardware) 09:23:50 urata: use Toyota's Prius as the platform 09:24:09 (10: R-Car H2 Lager board) 09:24:22 (11: ZMP CarTomo UP Pro) 09:24:30 urata: OBD2 logger 09:24:48 ... has bluetooth capability inside 09:24:55 (12: System Overview) 09:25:41 urata: Netfront NX Browser and Data Broker on the R-Car H2 Lager board 09:26:22 ... we don't have knowledge how to pick up the CAN data, so are using a translator 09:26:30 s/translator/packet translator/ 09:26:38 (13: Software Component) 09:26:51 urata: two components: vehicle API polyfill and Data Broker 09:27:00 (14: Vehicle API Polyfill) 09:27:23 urata: inside the polyfill software, there are several layers 09:27:56 ... a web application sends subscribe to this polyfill 09:28:42 (15: Supported API) 09:28:54 urata: subscribe() interface is ok 09:30:06 ... there was some problem with JSON communication 09:30:13 ... JSON RPC 09:30:33 ... when we send many get() 09:30:58 ... can't identify one of them from the other 09:31:13 ... many get() methods are put on the queue 09:31:34 ... but the relationship with each method is vague 09:31:39 ... and can't identified 09:32:00 s/with JSON/with get() due to JSON/ 09:32:10 (16: Supported Data) 09:32:20 urata: 9 data properties are covered 09:32:26 s/properties/features/ 09:32:31 (video) 09:33:13 urata: this video was taken within a genuine Toyota Prius we use for the experiment 09:33:23 ... actual scenes within the car 09:33:47 ... vehicle speed, engine speed, steering wheel angle, etc. 09:34:03 (scary :) 09:34:19 urata: there is a problem with latency 09:34:46 ... though it's already working 09:35:04 (19: Result) 09:35:39 (20: Latency) 09:35:48 urata: explanation on the delay 09:36:02 ... latency of 1.8-2.0 seconds 09:36:37 ... 0.7sec between OBD2 port and Receiver thread of the Data Broker 09:36:55 ... 1.1 sec between the Receiver thread and the Web application 09:37:23 ... we can improve the latter part easily 09:37:36 ... but need a smarter mechanism to improve the former part 09:37:43 (21: Next theme) 09:37:47 urata: for this year 09:38:08 ... Vehicle API native implementation, Increasing supported data interfaces 09:38:26 ... improve performance 09:39:35 s/interfaces/interfaces (but can handle 20-30 of them because using OBD2 as the source) 09:39:45 (22: Thoughts on Vehicle API 09:40:09 urata: as for subscribe() 09:40:17 ... when the callback is called? 09:40:54 ... several possible options: when value changed or pre-decided time span 09:41:17 ... periodically, e.g., several times per a sec 09:41:28 ... each time whenever data has been sent from the vehicle 09:41:51 s/when value/1. when value/ 09:41:58 s/periodically/2. periodically/ 09:42:07 s/each time/3. each time/ 09:42:10 Where can we get the presentation materials? 09:42:19 (23: Thoughts on Vehicle API) 09:42:40 urata: get supported zone list from vehicle? 09:42:47 [Qing An, yes we should ask them to be sent to the mailing list] 09:42:52 ... Prius has 4 doors and 4 wheels 09:43:38 ... but what if we want to use a different car? 09:44:12 ... it would be convenient if we could get a supported zone list from the vehicle itself 09:44:54 ... also would be better for after-market IVI systems to have zone lists for various vehicles in the market 09:45:12 ... another question is if the ZonePosition extensible 09:45:42 ... e.g., 3-D position like top and bottom 09:46:07 ... or even glove box and trank 09:46:28 s/trank/trunk 09:46:38 (24: Thoughts on Vehicle API) 09:46:46 urata: how to specify a zone? 09:47:18 ... in normal cases, we can specify the zone using X-Y positions 09:48:29 ... but value[] can have indefinite values 09:48:45 ... "Front" for all of front wheels at once? 09:48:58 (25: Thoughts on Vehicle API) 09:49:07 urata: how to specify a zone? 09:49:27 ... getting wheelSpeed with no zone specified 09:50:19 ... what should be returned with only "front-left" and "rear-right" are supported by a specific car? 09:50:38 (26: Thoughts on Vehicle API) 09:50:47 urata: Time-out of get() 09:51:24 ... the queue for get() may overflow unless there is a mechanism for timeout 09:51:55 ... getHistory() (currently changed to history.get()) 09:52:12 ... many things to be decided for the actual use 09:52:35 ... how to know which vehicle interface supports history? 09:52:53 ... where to store history data? 09:53:14 (27: Thoughts on Vehicle API) 09:53:47 urata: acceleration interface: better to use signed value? 09:53:59 ... fuel consumption 09:54:52 ... fuelConsumption, InstantConsumption, averageConsumption 09:55:36 s/fuel consumption/multiple methods for fuel consumption/ 09:56:21 ... different from my images of fuel consumption 09:56:34 (28: Thoughts on Vehicle API) 09:57:01 urata: don't need interface for Roll and Pitch as well as Yaw? 09:57:40 ... DrivingMode interface vs. DriveMode interface 09:58:05 ... enought for having just two states for light position 09:58:11 s/enought/enough/ 09:58:20 (32: JSON Packet Sample) 09:58:53 adam: trying to another car? 09:59:19 ... assuming OBD2 signals are similar but could be different with each other 09:59:30 hira: talking with car manufactures 09:59:37 wonsuk: web server? 09:59:49 urata: web socket server? 10:00:03 wonsuk: an open source one 10:00:09 urata: not using Node.js? 10:00:32 s/wonsuk:/urata: 10:00:41 s/urata: not/wonsuk: not/ 10:00:44 urata: no 10:01:21 ... during yesterday's demo session, we showed the demo of this 10:01:59 adam: plan for implementing the data broker natively? 10:02:10 urata: it's already a native app 10:02:46 ... if we change the JS to native app, the translator can't be improved 10:03:18 yes,i hope to call in. 10:03:20 @@@: thoughts on security? 10:03:24 urata: not yet 10:03:31 hira: for the next step 10:04:13 hvald: what is the criteria of good latency and bad? 10:04:19 urata: depends on apps 10:04:30 s/@@@:/peter:/ 10:04:44 jade: plan for plagin implementation? 10:04:49 urata: possible 10:05:05 ... we'll implement native APIs 10:05:27 ... not sure if we really need to do that, though 10:05:40 Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has now started 10:05:47 +[IPcaller] 10:06:07 justin: currently there are many overheads 10:06:29 urata: checked within the data broker 10:06:36 ted, the conference code is auto# ? 10:06:45 zakim, code? 10:06:45 the conference code is 2886 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), kaz 10:06:56 -[IPcaller] 10:06:57 Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended 10:06:57 Attendees were [IPcaller] 10:06:58 zakim, call kazuyuki-skype 10:06:58 ok, kaz; the call is being made 10:06:59 Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has now started 10:07:01 +Kazuyuki 10:07:36 urata: can change the configuration for buffering 10:07:44 ... to reduce the latency 10:08:16 jonathan: bluetooth version? 10:08:41 urata: bluetooth v2.1 SPP profile 10:08:48 +[IPcaller] 10:09:18 ted: @@@ 10:09:45 i am on the phone now. Seems the signal is not stable 10:10:46 wonsuk: typically we do cold start 10:11:07 ... which code part takes how long time 10:11:29 ... we should have that kind of time information to improve the performance 10:11:34 urata: using some tool 10:11:46 adam: profile analysis 10:11:56 ... this discussion is really helpful 10:12:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:12:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 10:12:35 yes, i am using skype 10:12:45 s/ted: @@@/ted: i have yet another idea for you to consider on handling latency we can discuss over lunch. idea is based on client rendering time, how long it takes and to use it to set pull or push frequency back through web socket to data broker and for the client to discard stale json based on timestamps and what was processed last./ 10:13:16 scribenick: ted 10:13:46 -Kazuyuki 10:14:16 Topic: Spec details 10:14:31 paul: i sent a few links to the mailing list 10:14:33 Meeting: Automotive WG f2f in Stuttgart 10:14:43 Chair: Adam_and_Paul 10:14:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:14:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 10:15:28 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/data_spec Data Spec 10:15:29 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/vehicle_spec Vehicle API 10:15:29 ted what time slot would agenda item of "use cases" and "call for editor" start? Around CET 15:00? 10:15:52 my account is an01040 10:16:00 -[IPcaller] 10:16:01 Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended 10:16:01 Attendees were Kazuyuki, [IPcaller] 10:17:23 yes, it's better now 10:17:30 -> https://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/wiki/Main_Page BG wiki with details of spec work 10:17:44 paul: we use github, a tool from w3c called respec 10:17:54 ... it is done in multiple parts and assembled 10:18:26 ... the access api is really the methods for the gets, subscribes etc and the data spec for the signals available 10:18:45 ... we need to define scope for this group 10:18:48 if you want try another channel, you can try it - https://appear.in/w3c-auto 10:19:02 ... what is missing from the spec, what issues are there, to track this work 10:20:47 -> http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter.html Automotive WG Charter 10:21:29 kaz: FPWD could be our current drafts with a few minor modifications 10:22:08 ... the other stages listed are Last Call, Candidate Recommendation (including implementations), Proposed Rec and Recommendation 10:23:02 W3C process document - http://www.w3.org/2014/Process-20140801/#Reports 10:24:53 TR procedures - http://www.w3.org/2014/Process-20140801/#recs-and-notes 10:25:29 ... w3c recently changed the process a bit and we have a choice, we can collapse LC and CR 10:25:38 ted when will the afternoon session start? 10:26:54 paul: the implementations really help to show what is working and what doesn't 10:27:59 https://github.com/w3c/automotive-bg/issues 10:28:18 q+ 10:30:27 [discussion on issue tracking. the recommendation is to use github issues for the spec itself. for general group issues not directly related to spec and concrete actions to be assigned we should use tracker] 10:30:47 -> https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/track/ Tracker of Issues and Actions for the Auto WG 10:32:43 ack k 10:33:19 zakim, who is here? 10:33:19 apparently Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended, kaz 10:33:21 On IRC I see wonsuk, osamu-n, Gabriel_Kepeklian, kaz, Qing_An, Justin_LGE, Harald, bgidon, Peterw, JonathanJ2, trackbot, KevG, abramski, urata_ACCESS, hirabayashi, Zakim, RRSAgent, 10:33:21 ... ted 10:33:33 kaz I may have to leave around CET 14:00, to take the flight. If agenda item "call for editor" starts, could you say on behalf of me that I want to work as the editor of use cases or security? I already discussed this in email with paul 10:33:45 action paul to work with Ted and Kaz on github repository layout 10:33:45 Created ACTION-1 - Work with ted and kaz on github repository layout [on Paul Boyes - due 2015-04-30]. 10:34:30 ted proposes to remove -bg and to use the one sub repo for both wg and bg since some work will be shared or transition back and forth between the two 10:35:35 yes 10:35:46 paul: we should involve the yet to be named editors in those choices, Justin? 10:35:50 ted: Wonsuk? 10:35:59 Wonsuk: umm, we'll see 10:36:16 adam: and from JLR? 10:36:18 kevin: i'll need to ask 10:37:21 14CET - 2000 CST 10:37:51 [negotiating when to resume and take up use cases with Qing_An] 10:39:46 qing: that will not be convenient for me but will look for colleague from Alibaba to attend instead 10:40:18 action adam to send out formal call for Editors 10:40:18 'adam' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., aabramsk, acrofts). 10:42:47 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/ Manual of Style 10:43:43 pb has joined #auto 10:44:05 s/Style/Style (Editors' guideline; please see section 5) 10:44:15 action-2? 10:44:15 action-2 -- Adam Abramski to send out formal call for Editors -- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN 10:44:15 http://www.w3.org/auto/wg/track/actions/2 10:45:06 [discussion on role and time commitment for editors. comments are scattered] 10:47:49 jpayne has joined #auto 10:48:45 Editor candidates: Wonsuk Lee (ETRI), Justin Park (LGE), Adam Crofts (JLR) 10:48:53 [adam reviews afternoon agenda before breaking for lunch] 10:49:17 [use cases, test suite, security/privacy, presentation from JLR] 10:49:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:49:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html ted 10:50:43 ok 11:06:41 action-2? 11:06:41 action-2 -- Adam Abramski to send out formal call for Editors -- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN 11:06:41 http://www.w3.org/auto/wg/track/actions/2 12:02:36 bgidon has joined #auto 12:04:02 PeterW has joined #Auto 12:06:03 osamu-n has joined #auto 12:11:56 KevG has joined #auto 12:12:04 hira has joined #auto 12:16:35 wonsuk has joined #auto 12:16:57 kaz has joined #auto 12:16:58 abramski has joined #auto 12:17:04 zakim, who is here? 12:17:04 apparently Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended, kaz 12:17:06 On IRC I see abramski, kaz, wonsuk, hira, KevG, osamu-n, PeterW, bgidon, jpayne, trackbot, Zakim, RRSAgent, ted 12:17:36 zakim, call kazuyuki-skype 12:17:36 ok, kaz; the call is being made 12:17:37 Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has now started 12:17:39 +Kazuyuki 12:19:53 scribenick: ted 12:20:04 Topic: JLR presentation on security 12:20:33 pb has joined #auto 12:21:09 kevin: we have started looking at implementing the vehicle api and data spec 12:21:52 ... there are some areas in security we will not cover such as lack of signal encryption over the can bus or replay vulnerabilities 12:22:25 gabriel has joined #auto 12:22:36 ... I have been reviewing web security techniques as applicable to this 12:22:42 [slides being sent to the mailing list] 12:23:16 ... we've been looking at threat surface, potential attackers, use cases, web/internet of things, access control and conclusions 12:24:35 ... line around the diagram (slide 4) is the attack surface, includes smart home devices, cloud services relied on, devices brought into the car, individuals who can get physical access to the car etc 12:25:33 ... the two major category of attackers is external and internal. for internal they would need to learn internals of cars and can buses plus read dense books 12:25:56 ... this is more plausible given who the target is, eg celebrity, head of state 12:26:43 ... Advanced Driver Assist System (ADAS) controller sets should be the *only* thing allowed to write to steering wheel, brakes, etc 12:27:14 ... you need to authenticate and ensure the instruction is in fact coming from the ADAS unit 12:27:54 ... you also need to insure important data feeds that this controller relies on (cameras and sensors) are not interrupted or spoofed 12:28:58 ... ADAS - traveling in convoy. vehicle behavior should be comparable to vehicles around it 12:29:25 Jade_Obigo has joined #auto 12:29:27 ... cars slowing down ahead should be able to alert vehicles behind it. the problem is trusting that data source 12:30:47 ... people may want to share their data close to real time, show people the sites they are seeing or updates on location for expecting when they will arrive 12:31:00 ... for that you need to identify and authenticate the recipients 12:31:29 ... car will be the most expensive thing most people will buy that will be part of IoT/WoT 12:32:02 ... expectations are higher given the higher price 12:32:38 ... you may be connecting IoT things from your home to your car - fridge telling you that you are running low on milk 12:33:33 JonathanJ2 has joined #auto 12:33:50 ... access control needs to be an integral part of the equation 12:34:13 Dapeng has joined #auto 12:34:36 Dapeng_ has joined #auto 12:35:02 ... also need to be able to handle use cases from authorities and aggregate anonymous information for studying traffic patterns, etc 12:35:18 JonathanJ2 has left #auto 12:36:11 ... the security challenges are more complex given the number of data inputs 12:36:45 [slide 12] 12:37:08 [vehicle api is an example of a WoT API] 12:37:52 kevin: some might err on trusting more initially and refining over time 12:38:36 ... there are federated trust scenarios that may help. your vehicle trusts itself and identifies itself through PKI 12:39:00 ... your home devices can register that public key 12:39:30 [slide 13 - further reading] 12:40:57 bernard: the W3C WoT IG will have an overarching security view that should be brought in 12:42:01 kaz brings out the paper diagram from WoT meeting earlier in the week... 12:42:31 JonathanJ1 has joined #auto 12:42:39 Justin_LGE has joined #auto 12:43:20 kaz: agree auto should collaborate with both WoT and WebAppSec WG 12:43:48 minutes from WoT IG meetings - http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html http://www.w3.org/2015/04/21-wot-minutes.html http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-wot-minutes.html 12:44:12 +??P25 12:44:21 ... and btw our TPAC (Technical Plenary & Advisory Committee) meeting in October might be a good place for a future F2F 12:44:49 zakim, who is here? 12:44:49 On the phone I see Kazuyuki, ??P25 12:44:51 On IRC I see Justin_LGE, JonathanJ1, Dapeng_, Jade_Obigo, gabriel, pb, kaz, wonsuk, hira, PeterW, bgidon, jpayne, trackbot, Zakim, RRSAgent, ted 12:45:24 tatsuhiko: i would like to propose a security and privacy tf of this group 12:45:59 ... KDDI would be willing to bring in experts to contribute 12:46:02 urata_ACCESS has joined #auto 12:46:06 Dapeng has joined #auto 12:47:37 Hello all, I am Dapeng Liu from Alibaba Group. Qin an works in my team, He can not continue to attend the meeting due to a business trip. 12:48:08 yes 12:48:17 zakim, ??P25 is Dapeng 12:48:17 +Dapeng; got it 12:48:23 ted counters with having this in BG with overlap for various reasons enumerated (not scribed because ted is also scribing..), tatsuhiko agrees a joint tf would work 12:48:27 Is there any way I can see the slides? 12:49:10 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-automotive/2015Apr/0009.html JLR presentation on privacy & security 12:49:20 Thanks! 12:49:49 including WebAppSec and Privacy IG 12:50:50 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webappsec/ WebAppSec WG 12:51:06 -> https://www.w3.org/Privacy/ Privacy IG 12:51:11 OK 12:51:18 s/WebAppSec/Web Application Security/ 12:51:38 -> https://www.w3.org/Member/Mail/ list of all the W3C WGs/IGs (Member-only) 12:52:28 osamu-n has joined #auto 12:52:45 wonsuk: i agree with the creation of the tf. question is who will be leading it 12:53:23 ... we need to clarify the scope of their work and ensure proper interaction with the other pertinent groups in w3c 12:54:48 Jade_Obigo has joined #auto 12:56:31 Justin_LGE has joined #auto 12:56:47 pb has joined #auto 12:57:00 jade: is the web the most secure platform? 12:57:38 wonsuk: very much depends on the parties involved 12:59:21 jade: i agree but what about all the underlying pieces all the way down to the OS? 13:00:05 peter: we have a product we had to pull because of a particular vulnerability in the browser engine being used 13:00:33 paul: you can have trusted, pre-installed (or limit installation) apps that can only interact with trusted sources 13:00:54 peter: true. we had to poke holes in the firewall immediately for music applications 13:01:40 William_Obigo has joined #auto 13:02:02 wonsuk: browsers can share reputation of sites used. we need way to have identified and protected sites that users can use 13:02:48 osamu: with trusted servers CA and predefined list can be done fairly securely 13:03:15 JonathanJ2 has joined #auto 13:04:48 KevG has joined #auto 13:04:59 wonsuk: we started off with some heavy security focus in sysapp group but that fell apart due to key resources being drawn away by their employer for other work 13:05:32 q+ 13:05:38 q+ 13:05:56 ... a store approach for apps that can run in the car provided there is enough and regular review 13:07:42 ... google is looking for ways to allow for more api use 13:08:48 ... webapp is often compared with native apps, definitely pros and cons 13:09:11 ... native apps require compatible devices and same app installation on all sides 13:09:17 ... instead of sharing a link 13:10:43 osamu: it is very different trying to protect a closed native app versus webapp. closed isn't necessarily secure 13:11:22 ... MS Windows is closed and frequently attacked. Linux is too but much more scrutiny and review 13:12:45 ... the proposal is an organization to review car apps can find some common vulnerabilities but think that is outside this group's scope 13:15:16 gabriel has joined #auto 13:16:24 wonsuk: signed apps from developers risks their reputation. in case any issue is detected they are subject to further scrutiny 13:16:33 osamu: every app should be signed 13:17:15 ... todays legit app is tomorrow's malware 13:17:26 peter: we need to think about the usability of the api 13:17:43 urata_ACCESS has joined #auto 13:17:56 ... we need to view it as a layer and focus ourselves on what we are producing, nothing more 13:18:37 paul: when people talk about connected cars, they usually are not talking about full open connection to the web but controlled access 13:19:16 wonsuk has joined #auto 13:19:52 kevin: it is not just signatures on apps but man in the middle (mitm) attacks you need to worry about 13:20:28 ... you can do replay attacks on can buses. there is a wide range of things that need security hardening in vehicles 13:21:16 osamu: various people will give the false sense of security of running on a closed network - home network 13:21:38 ... the basic understanding should be changing 13:21:59 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSP2/ Content Security Policy 13:22:18 kaz: webappsec has been working on CSP (see link) 13:22:25 PeterW has joined #Auto 13:22:31 ... we should be following these sort of specs with our use cases in mind 13:22:58 ... this is a great discussion but we need to do it with them 13:23:18 q? 13:24:38 -Dapeng 13:24:57 hi 13:25:05 +[IPcaller] 13:25:11 KevG_ has joined #auto 13:25:35 zakim, IPcaller is Dapeng 13:25:35 +Dapeng; got it 13:25:40 ted@@@ 13:26:56 kevin: there will be a pressure to open up even access to steering, brakes etc for legitimate uses and would be acceptible if it weren't a security concern 13:27:08 ... legitimate ADAS assist 13:27:46 ... ADAS if it uses the api is a trusted entity with different rights. obviously not something we want other parties 13:27:53 ... that problem has to be solved 13:28:44 ... you can have trusted modules within the vehicle itself. you cannot check identity all the time so you need some 13:31:22 adam: great discussion but how to move forward. agreement on need to form the joint tf and obviously liaison with the other groups 13:31:28 kaz @@@ 13:32:19 s/kaz @@@/kaz: we can simply generate requirements and bring to respective groups/ 13:35:18 s/ted@@@/ted: we need to keep our focus on our specs with the assumption any app might try to run them. i have some thoughts on best practices architecture layered security/ 13:36:01 s/architecture layered security/architecture layered security i intend to write up/ 13:37:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:37:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 13:39:10 hira: KDDI is happy to provide a moderator for the joint TF for the Automotive WG and the Automotive BG 13:39:51 kaz: please note that we should start with discussion on use cases and requirements. JLR's presentation today should be included in that 13:40:07 ted: several points we got consensus 13:40:38 (some more discussions) 13:40:51 ted: can generate a draft Call for Consensus 13:41:26 action ted to draft a public blog cfp on joint security tf to run by group before announcing 13:41:26 Created ACTION-3 - Draft a public blog cfp on joint security tf to run by group before announcing [on Ted Guild - due 2015-04-30]. 13:42:10 hira: please note we should concentrate on what should be done within the Web layer :) 13:42:12 ted: sure 13:42:27 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:42:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 13:43:08 Yes, I am online. 13:43:50 Is there any question for me? can not hear clearly 13:43:53 hira: also please remember the TF should be a "Security and Privacy TF" 13:44:15 paul: three main use cases for today 13:45:35 OK. I agree that security and privacy is very important for our group. 13:48:20 We also work on automotive security inside Alibaba group. We would like to contribute on this topic. 13:54:30 wonsuk has joined #auto 13:55:22 Dapeng, absolutely. we will be forming a security and privacy task force 13:55:55 OK, great 13:56:45 scribenick: ted 13:56:58 adam: Alibaba started producing some use cases on our wiki 13:57:20 Yes 13:57:43 -> https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Use_Cases Alibaba's Use cases 13:58:23 pb has joined #auto 13:58:26 i/I agree that/Dapeng, do you have any opinions on the expected TF on security and privacy?/ 13:58:29 My colleague Qinan would like volunteer to be the editor of the use case draft. 13:58:42 ok 13:58:44 adam: please review them and provide feedback. Alibaba said they are willing to do more and we should invite more in this group to contribute 13:59:12 ... there has also been discussion of producing a conformance test suite 13:59:36 Yes. We believe security and privacy is very import aspect of the automotive group. We would like to contribute on this topic and see what we can do. 13:59:57 ted: we don't want to wait too long before starting as it becomes more insurmountable 14:01:48 paul: the charter is pretty clear, we need it by CR 14:02:21 adam: question is do we have a recommended test framework we should use 14:03:14 ted: kaz has more WG experience than I. I know a few use different frameworks and the systems team has one they use. if Kaz doesn't have a concrete recommendation i'll seek input from other groups 14:03:45 adam: also are we testing the spec or the implementations 14:03:59 kaz: the latter 14:04:15 rrsagent, make minutes 14:04:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html JonathanJ2 14:04:47 osamu-n has joined #auto 14:06:18 wonsuk: the various test cases can be run against implementations. an implementation may not implement all features and only use/pass some of the tests produced 14:07:18 action kaz to recommend to the group how to create test suite 14:07:18 Created ACTION-4 - Recommend to the group how to create test suite [on Kazuyuki Ashimura - due 2015-04-30]. 14:09:52 adam brings up deliverables timetable 14:10:28 ted: we are already behind! we were overly-optimistic in getting this group started sooner than we did. charter dragged out and we should have changed the dates 14:11:40 ... as soon as we get commitment for editors we can take our existing drafts, we could produce our FPWDs based on the current drafts plus minor number of outstanding issues 14:13:26 scribenick: kaz 14:13:57 bernard: want to talk about recruiting more participants in this group 14:14:40 adam: we have Bernard for Europe and Alan for US 14:14:48 ted: Sam for Japan 14:14:59 bernard: Karen as well for US 14:15:12 ted: Kaz and I are also available for this group 14:16:03 i/scribenick: kaz/Topic: Increase group participation 14:16:51 topic: Monthly Call Cadence 14:18:00 paul: 4pm us is 8am in APAC 14:18:16 s/us/US/ 14:18:30 ... so suggested two different time slots alternatively 14:20:02 adam: twice a months 14:20:29 ... change the slots every month 14:21:11 bernard: 4pm US is 1am EU 14:21:36 adam: is Korea in the same time as Japan? 14:21:38 jade: yes 14:22:13 paul: there is no daylight saving in Japan or Korea 14:22:23 adam: we could adjust on our side 14:23:11 ... 4pm west coast and 9am west coast 14:23:41 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?year=2015&month=4&day=24&p1=317&p2=235&p3=137 14:23:45 adam: maybe 8am would be better? 14:23:47 it would be helpful to convert 14:23:48 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2015&month=4&day=23&hour=16&min=0&sec=0&p1=43&p2=256&p3=195&p4=248&p5=33 14:24:20 bernard: we can try and ask people for opinions 14:24:29 4PM Las vegas, 8 AM Korea/Japan, 1 AM Geneva, 7 PM Boston 14:24:48 http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingdetails.html?year=2015&month=4&day=23&hour=23&min=0&sec=0&p1=43&p2=256&p3=195&p4=248&p5=33 14:25:33 paul: but not on Tuesdays 14:26:13 ... 8am on Wednesday works for me 14:26:42 topic: Next F2F Meeting 14:26:54 adam: talked about F2Fs last night 14:26:55 resolved Tuesdays 14:27:27 i/Next F2F/ted: stick to Tuesdays 14:27:50 http://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/monthly.html?year=2015&month=10&country=8 14:28:24 adam: Tuesday/Wednesday are pretty busy for the Genivi guys 14:28:37 ... there will be TPAC 2015 in Sapporo 14:28:47 http://genivi.org/events 14:28:50 [[GENIVI ALL MEMBER MEETING 14:28:50 October 20-23, 2015 14:28:50 Seoul]] 14:28:56 adam: great opportunity to have f2f meeting 14:29:05 s/meeting/meetings with related groups/ 14:29:12 http://www.w3.org/2015/11/TPAC/ 14:29:21 adam: maybe including the Web of Things IG 14:29:22 [[Sapporo, Japan26-30 October 2015]] 14:29:48 adam: lot of great synagies 14:29:55 q+ 14:30:12 ... what we thought of was having the BG meeting at GENIVI meeting 14:30:30 ... and then having the WG meeting on Monday during TPAC 2015 in Sapporo 14:30:46 s/meeting/meeting on Friday in Seoul/ 14:31:25 ... at TPAC there will be talks by W3C management guys including Tim Berners-Lee 14:31:42 ted: and technical plenary part is open to everybody 14:32:09 ... might want to have a meeting on Mon/Tue including a TF meeting and/or breakouts 14:32:20 kevin: sounds good 14:32:48 Proposal: BG in Seoul on October 24th, WG in Sapporo on October 27th and 28th 14:33:20 action abramski send F2F proposal to both mailing lists 14:33:20 Created ACTION-5 - Send f2f proposal to both mailing lists [on Adam Abramski - due 2015-04-30]. 14:34:23 adam: yet another f2f meeting before TPAC 2015? 14:34:52 s/October 24th/October 23rd/ 14:35:09 ... might be in Seattle or Silicon Volley 14:35:14 osamu-n has joined #auto 14:35:18 ... Paul is located in Seattle 14:35:50 s/October 27th and 28th/October 26th and 27th/ 14:35:51 ... and we had a BG meeting in Santa Clara 14:37:12 adam: two proposals in July 14:37:19 s/two/those two 14:37:37 ... can send an email and ask group participants for preference 14:39:52 action: adam to send out a message to show the two proposals (Seattle, Santa Clara) to the groups to gather preference 14:39:52 'adam' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., aabramsk, acrofts). 14:40:19 hira: June or July? 14:40:33 paul: anytime between now and October would be appropriate 14:40:53 adam: will send the message soon 14:41:10 ... will send our suggestions 14:41:28 wonsuk: ok 14:41:37 ... we don't have enough time \ 14:41:50 s|time \\|time| 14:41:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:41:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 14:42:04 topic: Next Steps on the Spec 14:42:15 adam: what to do? 14:42:31 ... can we publish the spec as FPWD? 14:42:54 wonsuk: we just publish the draft generated by the BG with some edit 14:43:25 ... but we could split the spec into two pieces and then publish them 14:43:40 deliverable schedules on charter - http://www.w3.org/2014/automotive/charter#deliverables 14:44:07 wonsuk: the spec has two pieces, get and set (read and set) 14:44:35 ... given the security consideration is important, we should once remove set options 14:44:48 FPWD : Q1 2015, LC : Q3 2015, CR : Q1 2016, PR/REC : Q3 2016 14:45:19 osamu: some application might use get option badly 14:45:31 ... so get is not necessarily safe 14:45:42 wonsuk: right 14:46:06 ... but we could separate the spec into write spec and set spec 14:47:29 kaz: would go for publishing the draft as is :) 14:47:33 +1 FPWD ASAP 14:48:13 kaz: and we could add an editor's note saying "security consideration is important here" 14:48:19 paul: right 14:49:03 wonsuk: let's go straight forward! 14:49:12 adam: review what to do 14:49:17 s/review/reviews/ 14:49:42 ... can talk with Kevron as well 14:52:02 paul: the data spec itself would move forward 14:52:45 ... functionality provided in US 14:52:57 ... some features are specific to some vehicles 14:53:22 ... would start with speed 14:54:27 ted: we should look at accessibility as well 14:54:59 paul: what about compliance for spec 14:55:09 ... such as those done by ACCESS 14:55:33 s/accessibility as well/extensibility aspect as well. there are provisions to do so but should be a process to report back to us for when new features become common to multiple oem/ 14:56:33 kevin: location for tomorrow's meeting? 14:56:58 adam: institute de francais? 14:57:57 (Kevin shows the map on the projector) 14:59:42 adam: will send a message on the floor 14:59:52 [ adjourned ] 14:59:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:59:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-auto-minutes.html kaz 15:01:22 -Dapeng 15:01:51 -Kazuyuki 15:01:51 Team_Systems(AUTO)3:00AM has ended 15:01:51 Attendees were Kazuyuki, Dapeng 15:17:18 Harald has joined #auto 15:49:16 kaz has joined #auto 16:54:58 Zakim has left #auto