IRC log of webfonts on 2015-04-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:56:09 [RRSAgent]
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19:56:09 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-irc
19:56:11 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
19:56:11 [Zakim]
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19:56:13 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 3668
19:56:13 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
19:56:14 [trackbot]
Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
19:56:14 [trackbot]
Date: 22 April 2015
20:00:16 [jfkthame]
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20:00:17 [Vlad]
zakim, this is 3668
20:00:17 [Zakim]
ok, Vlad; that matches IA_Fonts()4:00PM
20:00:25 [Zakim]
+jfkthame
20:00:27 [RSheeter]
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20:00:27 [Vlad]
zakim, who is here?
20:00:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P1, Vlad, jfkthame
20:00:29 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RSheeter, jfkthame, Zakim, RRSAgent, Vlad, trackbot
20:00:47 [kuettel]
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20:01:24 [ChrisL]
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20:01:34 [KhaledHosny]
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20:02:21 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
20:02:33 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, here
20:02:33 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-irc#T20-02-33
20:03:43 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
20:03:58 [RSheeter]
if I scribe I fear you will hear my typing given how I setup hangouts
20:05:31 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
20:06:39 [ChrisL]
scribenick: ChrisL
20:07:19 [ChrisL]
chair: Vlad
20:07:50 [ChrisL]
Vlad: we have a couple of comments following the publication
20:08:02 [ChrisL]
... one was typo, now fixed
20:08:36 [ChrisL]
... second was impl and how it handles a condition, not a spec issue
20:08:44 [ChrisL]
... resolved as no change
20:09:16 [ChrisL]
Vlad: who updates the Google implementation?
20:09:26 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: me, then I delegate depending
20:10:39 [ChrisL]
topic: conformance test suite
20:11:22 [ChrisL]
Vlad: reviewed test plan, added all the new conformance items that were related to font collections and also the glyf and loca stuff
20:11:27 [ChrisL]
https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-Format
20:11:44 [ChrisL]
https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-AuthoringTool
20:11:56 [ChrisL]
https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent
20:13:21 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: prefer we adopt the ednote suggestion for http://dev.w3.org/webfonts/WOFF2/spec/#conform-mustSpecifyGlyfTableSize
20:13:58 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: it should say "this is the size in the original font" and make not promises abot how big the reconstruction ends up
20:14:09 [ChrisL]
Vlad: and then no test needed
20:14:31 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: it would become an authoring tool test
20:15:17 [ChrisL]
Vlad: straw poll - remove test on size of reconstructed glyph table? not practical to test
20:15:34 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: remove it
20:16:06 [ChrisL]
action: vlad to remove the #conform-mustSpecifyGlyfTableSize requirement and ed note
20:16:06 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-173 - Remove the #conform-mustspecifyglyftablesize requirement and ed note [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2015-04-29].
20:16:17 [ChrisL]
kuettel: agree
20:16:48 [RSheeter]
I think that was me and Khaled not Kuettel
20:17:01 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: easy as an authoring tool test. MUST be same
20:17:18 [ChrisL]
Vlad: but then why not for all the other tables
20:17:46 [ChrisL]
ok never mind then, no conformance on that
20:17:50 [j_hudson]
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20:18:03 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, here
20:18:03 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-irc#T20-18-03
20:18:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.250.668.aaaa
20:19:00 [ChrisL]
RRSAgent, aaaa is j_hudson
20:19:00 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'aaaa is j_hudson', ChrisL. Try /msg RRSAgent help
20:19:11 [ChrisL]
zakim, aaaa is j_hudson
20:19:11 [Zakim]
+j_hudson; got it
20:19:42 [ChrisL]
Vlad: wanted to prepare this for f2f meeting, go through the plans and see what we can do with the new ones
20:20:04 [ChrisL]
I changed a few things on https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent today
20:22:00 [ChrisL]
Vlad: extraneous-reject was similar in WOFF1, we had well defined padding requirements for tables, no overlap etc
20:22:08 [ChrisL]
... much more complex in woff2
20:22:40 [ChrisL]
... all variable length portions, cant see where they end without parsing. so needs a series of tests
20:23:07 [ChrisL]
... flagged as needing more work in the test plan
20:23:36 [ChrisL]
(no suggestions)
20:23:57 [ChrisL]
"For each place where extraneous data could occur, make a test."
20:24:18 [ChrisL]
Vlad: that is a lot of places. hard to find where those places are
20:24:38 [ChrisL]
... would need to be doctored by hand
20:25:07 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: make explicit tests for major and obvious ones?
20:25:37 [ChrisL]
Vlad: easy between main and meta, meta and private
20:26:05 [ChrisL]
j_hudson: is it that we have no clear prioritization of what to test?
20:26:42 [ChrisL]
Vlad: ambiguously defined. and also, variable length parts with no separation
20:27:01 [ChrisL]
... so hard to find where to insert space
20:28:17 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: need to reassess value of preventing ppl hiding data in odd places like between tables
20:28:46 [ChrisL]
Vlad: yes with per-table compression there were clear interstices that could be exploited. here it is all one compressed blob
20:30:11 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: suggest just testing in a few places
20:30:22 [ChrisL]
KhaledHosny: we already test those places
20:31:39 [ChrisL]
Vlad: in reality these three sections are contiguous. need to parse header to see where the joins between sections are
20:32:15 [ChrisL]
Vlad: and its harder to insert extra data, compared to woff1
20:32:44 [ChrisL]
... wonder if the test is too complicated for little gain
20:32:58 [ChrisL]
j_hudson: ask the w3c security folks?
20:33:19 [ChrisL]
... if there are security concerns they would know and we could flag it
20:33:50 [ChrisL]
action: ChrisL ask webappsec to review woff2
20:33:50 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-174 - Ask webappsec to review woff2 [on Chris Lilley - due 2015-04-29].
20:34:19 [ChrisL]
j_hudson: maybe the person who commented on woff1 in last call would comment here
20:35:25 [ChrisL]
Vlad: even with some number of tests we can't test all possible insertion points. want to avoid a false sense of security too
20:36:25 [ChrisL]
ChrisL: fuzzing makes more sense on a per-implementation basis
20:36:43 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: restrict it to the ones we already test like in woff1
20:36:48 [ChrisL]
Vlad: yes
20:37:13 [ChrisL]
(we will limit the test plan to the basic file structure insertion points)
20:37:40 [ChrisL]
(agreement)
20:38:46 [ChrisL]
Vlad: we now have specific descriptions on bounding box calculations, loca tables, etc
20:38:56 [ChrisL]
... esp for font collection support
20:39:42 [ChrisL]
Vlad: description best done by whoever makes the tests
20:40:02 [ChrisL]
Vlad: KhaledHosny any ideas on those?
20:41:17 [ChrisL]
KhaledHosny: I can edit the descriptions for these
20:41:19 [ChrisL]
https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-UserAgent#mustCalculateBBox
20:41:26 [ChrisL]
(and on from there)
20:41:59 [ChrisL]
KhaledHosny: I have started looking at these already
20:43:17 [ChrisL]
Vlad: authoring tool also changed because of the collections stuff
20:43:18 [ChrisL]
https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/wiki/TestPlan20-AuthoringTool
20:43:52 [ChrisL]
Vlad: often related to UA tests esp glyf and loca
20:44:49 [ChrisL]
Vlad: KhaledHosny if you could share your notes we can verify against test plan
20:45:18 [ChrisL]
... then ready for f2f meeting, when we are all in smae room things move fast
20:45:28 [ChrisL]
topic: next meeting
20:45:45 [ChrisL]
Vlad: so who is coming to f2f meeting? chris responded
20:47:30 [ChrisL]
Vlad: suggested dates are june 9-11 but we probably don't need 3 days
20:47:48 [ChrisL]
j_hudson: could call in, will not be there
20:48:05 [ChrisL]
Vlad: probably hosted at monotype office, if not somewhere in boston
20:48:44 [ChrisL]
kuettel: we wanted to be sure khaled could join somehow, travel is problematic so remote access is important
20:49:05 [ChrisL]
... today was first succesful trial, joining via hangouts and today was the first time that worked
20:49:22 [ChrisL]
... otherwise we were reluctant to have the meeting
20:49:56 [ChrisL]
KhaledHosny: all the suggested days are okay
20:50:13 [ChrisL]
... can manage for attending most of each day
20:50:47 [ChrisL]
Vlad: certainly June 9, maybe spill over to June 10, don't see more than two days
20:51:41 [RSheeter]
Rod & David K can make it :D
20:52:08 [ChrisL]
Vlad: jfkthame could you make it?
20:52:41 [ChrisL]
jfkthame: not in person
20:52:58 [ChrisL]
... maybe connect for part of the meeting, if needed.
20:53:26 [ChrisL]
Vlad: we can plan for an early start to ease remote participation
20:54:08 [ChrisL]
Resolved: Meeting 9 and 10 June, Boston, 3 remote participants and 5 on-site
20:54:40 [ChrisL]
kuettel: google has an office in cambridge if needed. hangouts already setup. lets discuss offline
20:55:05 [ChrisL]
Vlad: monotype has good connectivity in conference rooms too
20:55:13 [ChrisL]
... and hotel next door
20:55:57 [ChrisL]
... (marriott courtyard)
20:56:45 [ChrisL]
zakim, list attendees
20:56:45 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Vlad, jfkthame, ChrisL, +1.250.668.aaaa, j_hudson
20:57:15 [ChrisL]
zakim, aaa holds RSheeter, kuettel, KhaledHosny
20:57:15 [Zakim]
sorry, ChrisL, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
20:57:34 [ChrisL]
present+ RSheeter, kuettel, KhaledHosny
20:57:38 [RSheeter]
https://github.com/w3c/woff2-tests
20:57:47 [ChrisL]
RSheeter: also look at the test repo on github
20:57:57 [ChrisL]
topic: aob
20:58:05 [ChrisL]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:58:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-webfonts-minutes.html ChrisL
20:58:31 [Zakim]
-ChrisL
20:58:33 [Zakim]
-j_hudson
20:58:36 [Zakim]
-jfkthame
20:58:38 [Zakim]
-Vlad
20:58:41 [Zakim]
-??P1
20:58:42 [Zakim]
IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
20:58:42 [Zakim]
Attendees were Vlad, jfkthame, ChrisL, +1.250.668.aaaa, j_hudson
20:58:46 [jfkthame]
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