07:27:08 RRSAgent has joined #wot 07:27:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-irc 07:27:15 meeting: WoT f2f - open day 07:27:43 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting:_20-22_April_2015_in_Munich#Open_Day_.28Monday.2C_April_20.29 07:28:09 chair: daveR_and_joergHeuer 07:28:40 topic: Web of Things Framework, Dave Raggett, W3C 07:28:51 dave is presenting http://www.w3.org/2015/04/w3c-wot-framework-munich-2015.pdf 07:29:36 present: many, many, people 07:29:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 07:31:24 yes I will do it and query after Dave's talk 07:33:17 scribenick: kaz 07:33:51 dape has joined #wot 07:33:52 taki has joined #wot 07:34:01 claes: there were different options on the slides 07:34:06 ... on the possible servers 07:35:12 ... we can expect IPv6 as the basis of device identification 07:35:47 ... what is your view for the security? 07:36:10 dsr: security problems for IT devices 07:36:31 s/IT/IP/ 07:37:06 ... we should look at layered security approach 07:37:25 Joerg: due to security approach, what should we consider? 07:37:41 ... integration task 07:38:12 ... we should be open to which architecture is used for security 07:38:25 dsr: we'll be discussing security tomorrow 07:38:32 ... having a task force for the discussion 07:38:56 wunsook@: physical web by Google 07:39:18 ... want to know about the difficulty which that 07:39:39 ... what do you have in mind? 07:39:57 dsr: conflict with IoT Asia 07:40:39 ... Google Physical Device fits well 07:40:53 wunsook: bluetooth work at W3C 07:41:31 ... no problem to work for the bluetooth api at w3c? 07:41:34 dsr: there is a CG 07:41:54 ... if the web browser is the UI for WoT 07:42:15 ... the browser can't solve security issues by itself 07:42:54 s/wunsook@/wonsuk/g 07:43:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:43:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 07:43:23 topic: presentation by Harting 07:44:02 Fran's talk 07:44:23 (presentation should be added later here @@@) 07:45:03 s/Fran's/Frank's/ 07:45:31 (4/16) 25b devices 07:45:40 (5/16) what is the key technology? 07:45:54 tidoust has joined #wot 07:47:07 (6/16) Preservation of status quo and safeguarding the future 07:47:18 (7/16) Elements of IoT in the physical layer 07:48:05 (8/16) Innovation 07:48:31 (9/16) Integrated Industry 07:48:53 Trends and influences and technical potential 07:49:31 (10/16) Individualized World is changing... 07:49:41 (11/16) Individualized World 07:50:01 power to signals 07:50:07 all in one connector 07:50:34 providing not only those products but machines to make them 07:50:42 s/them/them as well/ 07:51:03 (12/16) Mass Customization needs for individualized solution 07:51:16 modularized manufacturing systems 07:51:25 hardware and software 07:51:53 both are modularized 07:52:19 Vertical integration with business environment 07:52:37 Efficient reconfigurable system: business level and execution level 07:52:43 Customer interface 07:52:56 (13/16) HARTING IT System Integration 07:53:19 RFID Devices, Modular Embedded Platform 07:53:26 Linux-based 07:53:48 s/RFID/Components: RFID/ 07:54:01 Software: Event stream processing middleware 07:54:24 (14/16) Vertical Integration - Cyber Physical System 07:54:40 (15/16) Vertical Integration Szenario 07:55:06 Customer-> Product configuration-> Check availability 07:55:31 security is one of the key topics 07:55:58 modular approach is useful to flexibility 07:56:24 the boxes include multiple processing capabilities 07:57:19 Joerg: various application areas 07:57:44 ... how to integrate them? 07:58:02 frank: information on what kind of connector is managed 07:58:27 ... all the information can be integrated with the connector itself or the center 07:59:03 ... can use the application at the center as the manager 07:59:40 ... we have much more control for the devices 07:59:46 ... controlling modules 08:00:06 ... possible to detect unexpected behavior of the modules 08:00:31 topic: Home automation use cases and requirements, Kazuo Kajimoto, Panasonic 08:00:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:00:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 08:01:05 (slides to be added here @@@Panasonic) 08:01:33 (1) Wonder Life-Box 2020 08:02:16 Tokyo Olympic games will be held in 2020 08:02:22 (demo video) 08:02:40 s/video/video on "Your Life in 2020"/ 08:03:00 The mirror detects your health condition. 08:03:16 Smart delivery service using the smart locker. 08:04:04 "House Concierge" manages uses' needs. 08:04:40 also recommends some plan on travels. 08:05:07 can detect when the users want to sleep and turn off the light. 08:05:31 s/(1)/(2)/ 08:05:33 (3) Use Cases 08:06:19 (4) Home Automation Categories (1) 08:06:38 air quality, lighting, audio visual, home energy management 08:08:31 (5) Home Automation Categories (2) 08:08:45 home security, cooking assistance, wearing advice, beauty advice 08:08:58 privacy issue 08:09:11 should enhance owners' authentication 08:09:34 (6) Home Automation Categores (3) 08:09:58 wellness/healthcare, home delivery management, emergency mode, in house moving assistance 08:10:29 CE manufactures can help related business suppliers, etc. 08:10:54 there are many disasters in the world 08:11:18 automatically show the evacuation ways 08:11:35 (7) Home Automation Categories (4) 08:11:52 dialogue/concierge system, safety and cyber security system 08:12:40 a wot device and an iot device might use different technologies 08:12:51 taki has joined #wot 08:13:14 currently a GW doesn't have strong capability for universal conversion 08:13:47 smarter GW could let people handle any IoT devices as if they were WoT devices 08:14:41 combination of technologies is important for security as well 08:15:03 wonsuk: two questions 08:15:30 ... 1. is Panasonic preparing some products for IoT 08:15:31 Sebastian has joined #wot 08:15:34 ... what kind of protocol are you using? 08:15:52 ... 2. there are lot of stuff for the "smart house" 08:15:57 ... what is the key? 08:16:12 kajimoto: there are many protocols used currently 08:16:17 ... including ECHONET 08:16:28 tidoust has joined #wot 08:16:37 ... we should understand at least 3-4 major ones 08:16:45 taki1 has joined #wot 08:16:52 ... but it's difficult to have only one specific protocol 08:17:08 ... because it depends on each device 08:17:36 ... so GW should identify at least all the popular protocols 08:17:42 ... 2nd question 08:17:51 ... we should categorize all the use cases 08:18:00 ... we have a very big menu 08:18:12 ... a user would use some of them 08:18:31 ... currently our system is implemented by only Panasonic 08:18:53 ... applications could be categorized into some ways 08:19:24 kenpen@: design centrally? or decentraized? 08:19:47 kajimoto: all the information is collected by the central server 08:20:31 ... in the future (e.g. 2020) each terminal could become even stronger, and might be going to have capability for distributed system 08:20:38 Joerg: how much cost? 08:21:22 kajimoto: cooperate with house makers 08:21:48 ... they sell whole "smart house" as their product 08:21:55 ... that is one possible solution 08:22:13 ... how to combine with our cloud service is the challenge 08:22:47 ... good topic for W3C as well 08:23:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:23:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 08:23:42 topic: Use cases and pilot projects for the COMPOSE platform, Charalampos Doukas, CREATE-NET 08:24:10 (slides to be added later @@@COMPOSE) 08:24:23 (2) COMPOSE Platform 08:24:31 platform as a service 08:24:54 service discovery 08:24:59 data provenance 08:25:30 (3) Need for Web of Things 08:25:47 Things (Control, Data Collection) <=> Services 08:26:08 (4) Need for Web of Things (contd.) 08:26:17 main features for IoT 08:26:29 special features 08:27:01 more than GET request 08:27:48 there are already devices connected to the Internet 08:28:26 (5) The Challenges 08:28:52 Things/Control/Data Collection/Semantic Description <=> JSON Schema 08:29:01 (6) The COMPOSE Solution 08:29:12 The Web (Service) Object 08:29:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:29:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 08:30:56 (7) Use Case 1 - Smart Spaces 08:31:20 what: samrt retail analytics, BLE Beacons on shopping carts, etc. 08:31:43 where: coop supermarket in Trento, north Italy 08:32:49 (picture of the UI for that system) 08:33:01 (8) Use Case 2 - Smart City 08:33:11 what: optimized car pooling 08:33:21 where: city of Tarragona, Spain 08:34:27 (9) Use Case 3 - Smart Territory 08:34:32 what: ski information app 08:34:42 where: Trentino region, north Italy 08:36:31 cd: actual scenario in Trentino 08:36:40 http://go2ski.eu 08:37:45 johannes: how to create the objects and how to mashup them? 08:38:02 cd: semantic annotation 08:38:09 ... find service already available 08:38:19 ... how to combine which and which 08:38:27 ... aggregate data 08:38:58 ... we use Node-RED 08:39:35 ... for navigation 08:40:12 topic: short panel 08:40:31 Joerg: there are still 10 more mins 08:40:39 ... maybe we could have some discussion on the presented use cases a bit 08:41:17 (Dave, Frank, Charalampos and Kajimoto) 08:41:32 Joerg: your need for actions? 08:41:55 cd: building platform for developers 08:42:12 ... as much general as possible 08:42:38 ... actuator should be also considered 08:42:57 ... security and access control is challenge 08:43:11 ... open and flexible scheme is needed 08:43:49 frank: horizontal platform for vertical industries 08:44:31 ... @@@ missed Frank's words 08:44:44 kajimoto: cultural issues in Japan 08:44:55 ... population is decreasing 08:45:05 ... many older people 08:45:17 ... need to provide solutions 08:45:34 ... also need to think about the technology trend 08:45:43 JAB has joined #WoT 08:45:48 ... we can think of use cases for that purpose 08:46:31 university@: source of security/privacy requirements? 08:46:45 ... governmental requirements or customers ones? 08:47:02 cd: depends on the domains 08:47:30 ... medical data depends on regulations 08:48:01 ... in our case, based on the user access control 08:48:23 frank: very limited 08:48:37 ... somebody hands over the data 08:48:48 ... conditions depend on the situation 08:49:04 ... security is extremely important 08:49:13 ... the business model changes completely 08:49:44 ... final users own the data as well as the products 08:49:58 Joerg: we discussed a lot 08:50:40 kajimoto: home automation use cases 08:50:48 ... one is cloud-based approach 08:51:04 ... all the devices are controlled via the cloud service 08:51:18 ... another possibility is direct connection 08:51:41 ... generic architecture would be better 08:52:01 cd: thinking of edge computing as well 08:52:34 frank: sending data based on the IP address 08:52:43 ... data combination 08:52:55 ... for existing machines 08:53:06 ... additional information could be used 08:53:14 Joerg: tx 08:53:26 [ break and demos ] 08:53:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:53:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 08:53:47 s/[ break and demos ]// 08:53:58 topic: brief descriptions on demos 08:54:31 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:54:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 08:54:50 ken: NTT Communications 08:54:54 ... two demos 08:55:14 ... one is the one on Chrimen project of Mozilla 08:55:24 ... will do for Mr. Takagi from KDDI this time 08:55:38 ... mozOpenHard project 08:55:52 ... open-source computer board 08:56:34 eduardo: Oxford Flood Network 08:56:39 ... collecting data 08:56:46 ... and analyze it 08:57:00 ... "nominet innovation" 08:57:13 ... (picture of a sensor) 08:57:20 ... send realtime data 08:57:41 ... analyze the data realtime 08:57:52 ... live river levels 08:58:06 ... monitor sensors 08:58:37 soumya: research engineer 08:58:48 ... lightweight M2M gateway 08:59:14 s/engineer/engineer from Eurecom/ 08:59:48 saki: NTT Communications 08:59:58 ... telepresence robot control via WebRTC 09:00:10 ... human like robot 09:00:23 ... we can control it (in Japan) from outside Japan 09:00:35 ... WebRTC platform named "SkyWay" 09:01:08 sebastian: (no slides) 09:01:13 ... micro controller 09:01:30 s/micro controller/Siemens/ 09:01:34 ... micro controller 09:01:54 ... using IP-based communication 09:02:39 jonathan: ETRI 09:02:47 ... WoT.js 09:02:57 ... WoT appliation framework 09:03:11 ... three kinds of reason 09:03:19 ... generic approach for WoT 09:03:25 ... solve technical issues 09:03:35 ... find new architecture model 09:03:44 ... conseptual model 09:03:47 ... WoT.js 09:04:02 ... consists of: note.js, express.js, etc. 09:04:31 Joerg: now break! 09:04:32 [ break ] 09:04:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:04:40 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 09:04:59 next session will start in 11:30 09:05:02 s/in/at/ 09:05:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:05:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 09:32:23 taki has joined #wot 09:32:34 Alan has joined #WoT 09:34:18 tidoust has joined #wot 09:34:58 RRSAgent, pointer? 09:34:58 See http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-irc#T09-34-58 09:37:03 scribe: tidoust 09:38:58 Topic: Web of Things architecture and use cases (Soumya Kanti Datta, Institut Telecom) 09:40:00 Soumya: Preliminary, IoT was about connecting things and proposing services on top of that. 09:40:18 ... We have all seen predictions of volume, 50 billions by 2020. 09:40:51 ... What the picture does not show are the challenges: several incompatible deployed platforms and silos 09:41:54 ... An electrical engineer of mine often wonders why he would need to use his smartphone to switch on a light, instead of the usual button. We need to understand what the user needs. 09:42:32 ... No uniform nomenclature for sensors. The temperature could be written as T, t, Temp, etc. 09:42:47 ... This makes it hard for application developers. 09:43:12 ... The Web of Things is emerging as a valuable solution to address these challenges. 09:43:59 ... Leveraging existing Web standards, exposing functionalities through RESTful APIs to make it easy to GET values. 09:45:26 ... I gathered requirements for Web of Things. We need a uniform desription of devices/things. Then discovery, including P2P, which is very ambitious as it's about exploring the social aspect of WoT. Then a very important part is the management of devices. 09:45:58 ... Sensors may switch from one network to another for instance. 09:46:18 ... Provisioning, management, end user access control. 09:46:34 ... Then mapping to existing protocols HTTP, CoAP, etc. 09:46:48 ... Security, Privacy, Trust, of course. 09:47:05 ... One core topic for the group, I think; is data management and repository (DMR). 09:47:12 s/;/,/ 09:47:55 Soumya: Data processing enable "smart" things to take smart decisions. 09:48:37 Soumya: Looking at the WoT Architecture that we're considering [see slide 8] 09:49:36 ... At the very bottom, you have devices. Then gateways, networks and mobile clients connected to Web of Things server providing DMR, access rights, discovery, etc. 09:50:08 ... One idea would be to move lightweight parts to the gateway since we have more powerful gateways nowadays. 09:51:35 ... Proxy-in (sensors) and Proxy-out (actuators) approach to enable the creation of virtual instances of physical devices. Each proxy has an URIs. Proxies can support both smart and legacy devices. 09:52:14 ... For description of devices, I re-utilise CoRE Link Specifications, in JSON, with a proposed uniform nomenclature. 09:52:21 s/kenpen@:/benedikt:/ 09:52:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:52:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 09:52:49 Soumya: The good thing is that description is very lightweight (less than 1Kb), working on JSON-LD integration. 09:53:37 Sebastian has joined #wot 09:54:43 ... Device management is based on OMA Lightweight M2M Technical Specifications. That defines a framework with several benefits: provisioning, registration. Taking the example of a Thing announcing itself every 5 minute. Server knows that the thing is no longer attached if it does not receive an announcement after some time. Configuration update can help change the value. 09:55:24 ... Data processing is about making sense out of raw data to derive actionable intelligence. 3-step solution: 09:56:01 ... 1. add side information to sensor using SenML. For instance, room temperature? outside temperature? In Celsius, In Fahrenheit? 09:56:20 ... This gives the context 09:56:29 ... This first step produces metadata 09:57:01 ... 2. Decorate the metadata with semantic reasoning, based on knowledge of domains, to create a high level abstraction. 09:57:14 ... 3. Derive smarter decisions. 09:57:32 s/... 2. Decorate the metadata with semantic reasoning, based on knowledge of domains, to create a high level abstraction./ 09:57:38 s/... 2. Decorate the metadata with semantic reasoning, based on knowledge of domains, to create a high level abstraction.// 09:58:18 Soumya: M3 approach, implemented recently in ETSI OneM2M architecture. 09:58:21 Joerg has joined #wot 09:59:10 Soumya: For End User service creation, it can trigger action if a pre-defined event occurs (someone enters a room leads to the light being switched on) 09:59:39 ... Remote and P2P discovery are work in progress, along with DMR and security. 10:01:03 Soumya: Now looking at use cases. The Smart Home use case is the main one [presenting slide 16] 10:02:32 ... The cross-domain use case is very interesting to consider [presenting slide 17]. The user could be suggested iced tea if weather is hot and relevant ingredients are available. Very simple idea but very powerful as well. 10:03:06 ... Another example: a vehicle could automatically swtich on the fog lamp based on weather sensor. 10:03:52 ... In summary, I discussed our motivation and requirements, presented an overview of a WoT architecture. I'm interested to lead a WoT Architecture Task Force 10:04:11 Alan has joined #WoT 10:04:17 He: What do you mean by end-to-end security. Where are the ends? 10:04:57 Soumya: Between the physical device and the mobile client. It's not only about having HTTPS in-between. From a mobile client, it's important to know that you can trust the provider of the gateway. 10:05:25 ... We have to have a way to establish the trust on the device, the gateway, the network. 10:05:53 s/He/He_(University_of_Passau)/ 10:06:09 Dave: @@? 10:06:27 s/He/Daniel_Schreckling/ 10:06:42 Soumya: By vocabulary, I mean the uniform nomenclature. 10:07:37 ... Developers need to follow the guidelines provided by W3C very strictly. 10:08:36 tidoust2 has joined #wot 10:08:49 Soumya: In terms of implementations, there is embed-JENA(?), which takes some processing power. The latency might be 1 or 2 seconds for small devices. 10:09:06 Dave: I was talking with someone from Cisco about similar issues. 10:09:24 i/Soumya: In terms of/scribenick: tidoust2/ 10:09:51 Topic: Securing the Web of Things (Daniel Schreckling, University of Passau) 10:10:27 Daniel: Context is the COMPOSE EU project, looking at solutions we implemented. We have a bunch of stakeholders that want to communicate. 10:11:04 ... Instead of redoing things again and again, we want ro reuse things and combine services. This is more software focused. 10:11:18 ... Keep in mind that this can also apply to devices. 10:11:56 ... In the IoT, something that did not explicitly show up in previous discussions is that we're sharing sensors across applications. 10:12:13 ... You have unpredictable interactions between applications in particular. 10:12:32 ... What do you do with security in such a context? Different applications have different security requirements. 10:13:06 ... What we're currently deploying is a very static access control mechanism. 10:13:28 ... That may not cope well with IoT needs where you want to share. 10:13:50 ... The COMPOSE approach is to go down to the data leve and implement security at that level. 10:14:35 ... One of the things that you need is identity management. In COMPOSE, it's attribute-based which provides a lot of freedom. For instance, you can assign an OAuth attribute to devices at home. 10:14:56 ... This is not currently possible with deployed IoT systems so far. 10:17:27 Daniel: Showing an operational view [slide 6]. Two weather sensors provide values. We need to associate security, policies, reputation. Same thing for a service, who is able to assign the data, what kind of sensors you want input from, and what kind of contract. 10:18:01 ... When data flows from the sensor to the service, you also need to associate flow policies, security state and provenance. 10:18:22 ... Which states did that value go through? 10:19:21 ... The idea of flow policies for data is that you use some JSON document tagged to data, defined over actors and you can create classic read/write rules. 10:19:49 ... You can view that as a set of locks. As soon as a lock is closed you cannot write the data anymore. 10:20:46 ... On top of that, you have contracts that describe what the service is going to do. 10:21:58 ... We derive them automatically. They are refinements where a developer might say "I know the constraints that my software has". The goal is to be able to blame the developer later on if the contract is not fully respected. 10:23:06 ... Going back to example combining a weather service and a service that provides places to meet, we need to ensure that conflicting constraints are handled properly. 10:24:03 ... In COMPOSE, we extended Node to handle our security policies, to ensure that legal flows are allowed and illegal ones are not. 10:25:06 kaz has joined #wot 10:25:16 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:25:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:25:16 ... We can also compose things and analyse the composition itself. We may use TAKS and Klee to analysis the JavaScript and native code. This might reveal some misconfigured things, which would lead to composition reconfiguration. 10:27:21 Daniel: if you think back to the original solution where we only had node monitors, this is not so efficient, of course. On other hand, we could also put monitoring directly within the code, and split up the security components, which saves the centralized approach and allow us to compute reputation and manage provenance. 10:28:12 ... Reputation and provenance generate a lot of data that can be fed back in the system to adjust policies: "I only want data that was generated by Google sensors, not by others", etc. 10:28:40 ... What we don't address is the security of the physical devices themselves. 10:29:12 ... Also it does not address tampering if someone introduces a sensor in the wrong place in the production line. 10:29:42 ... The manufacture also has to guarantee that the firmware cannot be hacked. 10:30:38 ... About data confidentiality and integrity, everything goes to the cloud. You can decide yourself how much goes to another peer. 10:31:28 ... Note that the analysis tool and instrumentations are somewhat limited. We can do Java and JavaScript but other languages are not yet supported, and you should not forget that these systems are not perfect. 10:32:02 ... They might be wrong. However, it's not as bad as static access control. 10:33:18 ... Conclusions: it seems the mechanisms that we introduced based on flow control frameworks appear to be a perfect match for most use cases and create new dimensions for policy enforcement. 10:34:00 ... Of course, these mechanisms introduce storage and processing overhead, and something that security experts usually do not like, meaning a dynamic security enforcement architecture. 10:34:28 ... Final question is: does the Web of Things want to face this fine granularity? Are the gains worth the cost? 10:35:55 Topic: WoF Use cases and solutions at FZI 10:36:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:36:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:37:10 Speaker: Comparison between the Semantic Web and the WoT. The WoT focuses on bits and bytes, real-time and dynamic domains. 10:37:16 s/FZI/Benedikt Kämpgen, FZI/ 10:37:26 s/Speaker:/Benedikt:/ 10:37:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:37:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:38:16 [Benedikt going through slides, presenting FZI] 10:38:55 s/WoF Use cases and solutions at Benedikt Kämpgen, FZI/WoF Use cases and solutions at FZI by Benedikt Kämpgen, FZI/ 10:39:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:39:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:39:26 Benedikt: First use case I wanted to touch upon is Ambient assisted living use case. We want to use intelligent sensors for elder people and people with disabilities. 10:39:54 ... How much efforts need to be put to enable this use case? 10:41:07 ... Going through an example. The stakeholders are the handicapped people, nursing staff, relatives. Things are wheel chair, smart phone, all sorts of sensors. What benefits from linking between things? 10:41:39 ... Estimating the action that user wants to execute for instance (pointing at a light to switch it on) 10:42:11 ... Benefits from interactions between things? Privacy is improved because a restricted amount of information leaves the house. 10:42:33 ... Energy management could also be improved by things being able to communicate their battery status. 10:43:10 ... [presenting AAL scenario, slide 9] 10:43:53 ... The context management could device what is the perfect medium to remind the user about taking a medicine depending on the context. 10:44:38 Benedikt: Another use case: Digital Entreprise. The goal is to transition from sensing entreprises to proactive enterprises, e.g. by identifying machines that are likely going to break soon. 10:45:00 ... Such system must be scalable, distributed. 10:46:25 ... From linking these things, you could understand relationship between the behavior of things and the KPI. 10:47:32 Benedikt: About possible contributions, we are using semantic mediaWiki to keep humans in the loop. The openAAL tool that I presented. 10:47:46 ... Linked APIs are a way to describing services. 10:48:28 ... We have also been working on rule-based languages such as Linked-Data-Fu. 10:49:15 ... To answer W3C questions about interest in WoT: I think it's mainly about connecting things together based on mechanisms that have evolved over the last 10-15 years. 10:49:39 ... Stream data protocols, rule enginges, service description languages would be technologies of interest. 10:50:16 [ lunch break ] 10:50:22 RRSAgent, draft minutes 10:50:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html tidoust2 10:53:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:53:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 10:54:40 s/Daniel_Schreckling_(University_of_Passau):/Henrich_Pöhls:/ 10:54:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:54:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:00:23 scribenick: Alan 12:00:38 Topic: Social this evening 12:01:03 Jeorg talks about networking 12:01:44 Jeorg: Idea is to meet at the underground station at 6P 12:02:08 ...We'll get together then and then take the subway 12:02:47 ...[explains how to get there on your own] 12:03:11 tidoust2 has joined #wot 12:04:27 Topic: IETF IoT related standards, and the Thing to Thing Research Group, 12:04:55 Carsten: I'm going to talk about standardization on the network side 12:05:10 ...it's been 10 years of work 12:05:39 JAB has joined #WoT 12:05:43 ...Let's start by defining IOT - was originally RFID 12:06:09 ...We're expecting 50 billion nodes by 2020 12:06:27 ...It's a matter of scale that we know how to do. We have very little to change in this space. 12:10:00 scribe: fsasaki 12:10:41 tidoust2 has joined #wot 12:10:44 JAlan has joined #WoT 12:10:46 Carsten: constraints of nodes lead to constrains of the networks 12:11:00 .. nodes work on batteries, need to have them sleep a lot 12:11:41 ... there are various networking technologies 12:11:59 ... we can use a stable internet protocol 12:12:08 .. constrained node networks 12:12:33 .. terms for this: IoT, wireless embedded internet, IP smart objects, ... 12:13:00 ... wireless sensor networks: rather about research - designed for a specific research grant 12:13:40 ... "designed for grant proposals versus designed for decades" - the latter is the goal of the ietf work 12:13:46 Alan has joined #WoT 12:14:34 carsten: many people in IETF try to build architectures that it works without the cloud 12:15:04 ... can we move the baggage? you can make it work but may not want to 12:15:23 ... two camps: "Ip is too expensive" ... vs "ip works as it is - why change?" 12:16:16 ... both are right: boundaries between IP or not IP are being moved 12:16:42 ... 7 WGs in the IETF are working on IoT 12:16:54 ... group 8 is created soon 12:17:18 ... several groups related to security, one related to applications 12:17:42 ... layer of IP on constrained devices by a given company (ARM) 12:18:20 ... comparison of hype IoT and real IoT: different technologies being applied 12:18:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 12:19:35 Alan has joined #WoT 12:20:05 carsten: 2008 starting working on routing 12:20:09 taki has joined #wot 12:21:16 carsten: now on applications: group on CoRE - constrained restful environments 12:21:45 ... CoRE done in basic mode. Elements of the web: HTML, URIs, HTTP 12:21:56 ... HTML in IoT still needs work 12:22:05 ... URIs for IoT is suitable 12:22:36 ... HTTP still needs work, e.g. for compression related to IoT 12:22:46 ... CoAP can use rest proxies 12:22:56 ... run proxy chain from CoAP to HTTP 12:23:25 ... CoRE embraces REST. Adds "observe" and web linking 12:23:40 ... details see http://coap.technology 12:23:51 ... security in CoAP is not optional: DTLS 1.2 12:24:42 ... since May 2015: ACE working group 12:24:54 ... on authentification and authorization 12:26:01 ... since 2013: CBOR. Representing JSON in binary 12:26:43 ... http://cbor.io/ 12:26:52 ... next step: COSE (IETF JSON security) 12:27:24 ... need to work together, also with W3C 12:27:57 ... cooperation items: application layer technologies like mgmt for constrained nodes, security, ... 12:28:15 ... now switching to IRTF (research arm of IETF) 12:29:06 ... first wave of IoT standards done 12:29:14 ... IoT consortia are filling gaps 12:29:26 ... new requirements for research coming up 12:31:45 @@@: how are unique ipv6 addresses allocated? 12:31:53 carsten: has a privacy element 12:32:06 ... unique identifiers can be used for linking, on IP and net layer 12:32:09 s/@@@:/Claes:/ 12:32:18 ... recent work around with randomized MAC addresses 12:32:33 carsten: one question - how persistent do the addresses need to be? 12:32:39 ... we de-emphasize DNS 12:33:16 ... there is no problem with having the same address in multiple times 12:33:41 YYY: you mentioned the "observe" command - can you explain why? 12:33:48 s/YYY:/Benedikt:/ 12:34:08 carsten: sometimes a server has new information and wants to let the client know about that 12:34:49 ... a small addition to the architecture, integrates smoothly into REST 12:35:16 richard: standards above coap 12:35:32 ... what is your opininion on having standards on the resource description layer? 12:35:58 carsten: personal opinion: there are a lot of pits here, e.g. doing the next wsdl 12:36:12 ... with the web linking based architecture we are not done yet 12:36:28 ... e.g. there may be other metadata that one may to add 12:36:56 ... interesting thing of web linking is that easily you can add new information, just document them 12:37:21 JAB has joined #WoT 12:37:23 topic: Semantics for discovery and interoperability of services, Carlos Pedrinaci, The Open University 12:37:27 sccribenick Alan 12:37:33 sccribenick: Alan 12:37:44 scribenick: Alan 12:37:44 Topic: Semantics for discovery and interoperability of services 12:38:15 Carlos: I'm oging to be taoking about aspects of the last question 12:38:34 ...This is a mapping of some of the solutoisn and standards that are around 12:38:53 ...Focus on how to make this work 12:39:15 ...Verticals slide 12:39:25 tidoust2 has joined #wot 12:40:31 Carlos: It's harder when you look across domains 12:40:31 ...What ususally happens is they go for an API 12:40:32 [Horizontals slide] 12:40:57 Carlos: The stand is on the Web part of WoT 12:41:24 ...The win is to find the way to repurpose components 12:41:47 [Find Understand Intereact Combine slide] 12:42:47 Carlos: "this needs to happen despite Vendor Specific silos" 12:43:44 ...behind the scenes there will be different things, but at the application level you should be able to work together 12:44:03 [xively slide] 12:44:31 [dweet.io slide] 12:44:46 [ThingSpeak slide] 12:45:05 Carlos: I was trying to figure out a way to show this. 12:45:20 ...It brought me back to talks about mashups from 2007 12:45:43 ...That has worked, and in my opinion the WoT needs to head in the same direction 12:46:10 ...Looking bat at Web APIs slide 12:47:48 ...we should rely on developers implementing things properly but that's a problem 12:48:23 ...but that's not the case, even HTML pages aren't implemented properly 12:50:07 ...Semantics are essential, you need to consistently say what the data is, etc. 12:50:32 ... 12:50:56 ...The SAWSDL standard only focuses on three things 12:51:34 .[picture of develper environment] 12:51:59 [Description slide] 12:52:26 Carlos: We've been working on these things and have solutions. 12:52:38 ...It's university research but it works 12:52:49 ...we have iServe covering this 12:53:15 ...we use existing datasets with the definitions that are out there. 12:53:37 [data mining slide] 12:53:55 [Describing Things slide] 12:54:18 [Things Functionality slide] 12:55:02 [Things Interface slide] 12:55:22 [Discover slide] 12:55:37 [iServe demo] 12:57:50 [Interact slide] 12:58:34 [screen shot of data extract] 12:58:50 [Combine slide] 12:59:08 [Composition slide] 13:00:08 [ending slide with links] 13:00:59 Topic: IoT platform glue.things - Node-RED as basis for authoring tools 13:01:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 13:03:12 Robert.Kleinfield 13:03:46 Robert: We try to provide solutions to mashup IoT / IoS 13:04:06 ...Our proposal is we have a platform galled glue.things 13:04:24 ...We need to identify the building blocks for WoT 13:04:39 [What is Glue.things slide] 13:05:29 i/I'm oging to/scribenick: JAB/ 13:05:39 [glue.things overview slide] 13:05:54 i/behind the scenes/scribenick: Alan/ 13:06:09 Robert: It's important to focus on the data depicted on the right side 13:06:36 ...There are various solutions for data management, we try to provide integration for them 13:06:40 s/...behind the scenes/Carlos: behind the scenes/ 13:06:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:06:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:07:14 s/I'm oging/I'm going/ 13:07:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:07:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:07:20 ...We've integrated the red, I'll explain how we did that. 13:07:47 [how can applications be developed slide] 13:09:07 ...Application in 3 steps - 1. Connect, 2. Build and 3. Distribute 13:09:21 [glue.things dashboard slide] 13:10:01 [glue.things dashboard detail slide] 13:10:32 Robert: Each device is defined in data management and the streams are represented in the mashup 13:10:42 [glue.things composer slide] 13:12:25 [example of My Composer screen] 13:12:57 [Marketplace slide] 13:13:45 [My Automations screen shot] 13:14:04 [Developer Tools slide] 13:14:44 [Technology Stack slide] 13:15:34 [W3C Web of Things slide] 13:16:13 [ETSI M2M slide] 13:16:45 [Conclusion slide] 13:18:30 [Thank You slide with pointers for info] 13:19:03 scribe: fsasaki 13:20:14 I'm logging. Sorry, nothing found for 'who am i' 13:20:53 topic: discussion 13:21:04 dave showing thing description from his presentation 13:21:26 http://www.w3.org/2015/04/w3c-wot-framework-munich-2015.pdf#page=14 13:22:20 dave going through json-ld description containing events, properties, actions (not always given for each thing) 13:23:19 JAB has joined #WoT 13:23:29 dave: now things as an agent 13:23:36 http://www.w3.org/2015/04/w3c-wot-framework-munich-2015.pdf#page=15 13:24:07 dave: behaviour here expressed via JS - but that is up to the server 13:24:23 ... here event is send and bind to a function 13:24:39 ... calls unlock action to the door 13:25:16 ... many of these things have to be thought throuh 13:25:30 see http://www.w3.org/2015/04/w3c-wot-framework-munich-2015.pdf#page=16 13:25:52 dave: see for efficient transfer of structured data 13:26:03 ... ways of specifying vocabularies 13:26:43 dave: binding protocols may be a standardization item 13:27:04 ... standardizing servers - normally done via protocolls, e.g. http / coap, so not so much to be done 13:27:29 ... provisioning and life cycle mgmt 13:27:39 .... discovery 13:27:52 ... discussion about security and privacy 13:28:23 ... legal terms - can we borrow s.t. from the web like creative commons? 13:28:47 ... some thoughts - now everything open for discussion 13:29:18 dave: question to stefan on xmpp - how hard would it be to define restful bindings? 13:29:36 stefan: there is already s.t. that helps with that 13:29:36 Claes has joined #wot 13:29:53 ... I would suggest to come up with new items that specifically target WoT 13:30:29 stefan: xmpp is extensional protocoll, core protocoll only defines stream of xml that is being exchanged 13:30:56 ... we would have to come up with new items to extend xmpp 13:32:21 felix: asking about modeling domains more general or specifically - how to interrelate that, e.g. for end customer and manufactuer? 13:32:36 dave: example of different manufactures who have different approaches 13:33:08 ... project involving etsi - worked on interrelateing vocabularies 13:33:41 ... w3c is not in position to define vocabularies, but can build foundations to build relations between vocabularies 13:34:13 Carlos: experience from swasdl: we defined a hook how to "attach" semantics 13:34:22 ... similar to REST principles 13:34:40 ... establishing / building principles may help 13:34:51 ... could be some space for defining a core ontology 13:35:17 s/swasdl/SAWSDL/ 13:35:21 .. but then there are more specific domain specific items 13:35:33 ... see the example of schema.org which is the "upper model" in that way 13:35:52 dave: important to take the different models of abstractions into account 13:36:13 alan: this is open discussion session 13:36:33 ... we need people from the various industry involved e.g. to move a task force forward 13:36:51 ... to move s.t. forward you need two implementations to create a standard 13:37:28 ... see e.g. fraunhofer showed something which can be input to this - if you don't want this to become a standard, join the conversation and make your voice 13:38:15 dave: thanks - there is a deliverable for the group that will help with gathering the use cases 13:38:35 jörg: this morning was interesting to see: different proposals on architectures 13:39:09 ... e.g. architecture of a hub see glue.presentation - then e.g. see architecture of network of things 13:39:33 ... coming to agreement on the set of architecture and then discuss building blocks seems to be pre-condition for the IG 13:39:52 ... then the question is: what other pre-conditions do we have for the IG 13:40:30 ... then some questions to think about: what are the most two important building blocks? 13:40:40 ... security was the most refered topic today 13:40:48 ... but not sure if security is a building block 13:41:10 ... whatever we discuss - need to understand if it will be a building block 13:41:25 ... also "taking care" can mean: we use something that already exists 13:41:38 ... see e.g. CoAP / IETF relationship 13:42:06 ... so in IG we need to discuss: pre-conditions, building blocks, what do we want to take care of 13:42:19 QQQ: you may need secure building blocks 13:43:15 ... be precise in terms of the endpoints that you want to communicate with 13:43:30 s/QQQ/Daniel_Schreckling/ 13:44:06 s/Daniel_Shreckling:/Henrich:/ 13:44:10 dave: need a group of people - what are the right questions to ask 13:44:23 s/Daniel_Schreckling:/Henrich:/ 13:44:48 dave: there will be some parts done, e.g. some metadata items that already can be described 13:45:11 jörg: technical aspect important, but also: how to work on it in the interest group? 13:45:44 gisela: it depends on the scenario that you want to build 13:45:59 ... e.g. for security & privacy, you need confenditality 13:46:10 .. for security there are non-functional and functional requirements 13:46:41 ... then also important: standardisation point of view 13:46:54 ... there are many standardisation activities that deal with WoT / IoT 13:47:05 ... you need a standardisation landscape to doc on other activities 13:47:27 ... not only IETF, but also ETSI, ISO for smart cards and there is a new ISO group for IoT 13:47:48 dave: one proposed task force is: to work on liaisons 13:48:27 ... to make sure that messaging is clear - but we need some help of people working with that 13:49:08 benedikt: one important task: decide what would be the outcomes of the IG 13:49:20 ... e.g. would you want to establish best practices? 13:49:31 dave: part of the answer is: understand what the WoT means 13:49:56 ... we don't want to create yet anther platform, but would allow the platforms to talk to each other via the web 13:50:50 Felix: Dave mentioned there are specific task forces, do you have them to share? 13:50:58 jörg: won't define what is "wot" but rather go from the buiding blocks 13:51:20 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting:_20-22_April_2015_in_Munich#Proposed_Task_Forces list of proposed TFs so far 13:51:35 dave: tasks force being discussed: see the agenda link, security & privacy, some specific sectors 13:51:42 Sebastian has joined #wot 13:51:54 ... e.g. question to daimler: is it time to think about automotive task force? 13:52:17 Andreas: security is clearly important 13:52:39 ... not clear to me yet: how can the integration into WoT be done? 13:52:51 ... that is an important question for the car 13:53:13 ... in a town you have connectivty, you get music from the cloud - but how about rual areas? 13:53:39 dave: so e.g. you need intelligent services that can predict than you are driving, using some gsp data, then downloading something 13:54:00 sebastian(bmw): many technologies discussed today relevant for automotive 13:54:25 ... automotive business is slow, so we are not ready to join jet 13:54:39 ... but interesting discussions. protection of data is important 13:54:48 ... then reliability, e.g. funcitonal safety 13:55:14 ... in cars low engergy state is also important, you might use in certain situations 13:55:39 ... so there is place for tasks forces, but we need more time at bmwi to discuss internally 13:56:31 kaz: not sure if we really need an Automotive TF within the Web of Things IG at the moment 13:57:18 ... would suggest the WoT IG should collaboratively work with the Automotive WG to see what should be done within the Automotive WG and what should be done within the WoT IG 14:20:08 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:20:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html tidoust 14:37:13 scribe: tidoust 14:37:13 topic: wrap up 14:37:37 i/not sure if/scribenick: kaz/ 14:37:43 Jorg: I think we can do this in 3 parts 14:37:43 ... 1. Look back at what we discussed today 14:37:43 ... 2. Look at upcoming two IG F2F days 14:37:43 ... 3. Gather inputs from today's participants 14:37:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:37:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:38:31 s/Jorg:/Joerg:/ 14:38:49 Joerg: Most comments are from the Smart Home arena, but it was nice to see the integration. Amazing video from Panasonic. We're really wondering how to enable this. 14:39:06 ... Use cases around the public space, parking (smart city related), etc. 14:39:25 ... Of course, our task is to collect these use cases, but also to start to use them 14:39:41 ... in particular to derive requirements for the WoT framework. 14:39:53 ... Question is what is common from all these domains? 14:40:34 Dave: W3C work needs to meet the needs of actors. What kinds of use cases will help drive the work? I'd like to ask Alan from W3C to say a few words on that. 14:41:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html fsasaki 14:41:16 Alan: I think that when we look at moving this work ahead, there are a couple of dimensions to look at. One is by the industry, but also use communities. 14:41:39 ... I agree with the notion that security in building blocks is needed. 14:42:20 ... If there's a topic that you care about, you need to step up. It could be around smart home, or around something else entirely. What does the WoT mean to the mobile space? That could be a task force. 14:42:59 ... One group that is not here today, Boeing, has use cases around network at airports and within airplanes, for instance. 14:43:23 ... The task forces control their own pace. How fast can we move? That's how fast task forces move. 14:43:33 ... It's based on interest that things moves on. 14:44:14 ... Someone mentioned 70 IoT organisations that they contribute to, that's one figure too many. 14:44:26 ... Managing liaisons is important. 14:45:19 ... We work in a Royalty Free pace but we need IPR to build the standards. Your companies have the IPR. Which of those are you willing to contribute so that we can spin off working groups? 14:45:48 ... The IG will produce use cases and requirements, no IPR contribution there, but you need to think ahead about IPR for possible follow-up working groups. 14:46:14 ... I would encourage you all to raise your hand if there's some group that you would want to start. 14:46:22 ... If something is missing, just let us know as well. 14:46:58 Dave: We all heard about how hard the WoT is going to grow in the coming years. We cannot do everything, we have to focus on a few building blocks that can progress rapidly. 14:47:22 ... We talk about some of those today, and hopefully we can make them more crisp over the next couple of days. 14:47:28 ... Are there things ready to move? 14:47:57 stefan 14:48:04 s/stefan// 14:48:21 Joerg: Looking at the agenda for next two days, we have to do some work to get us organized and started, that's the use case discussion in my view. 14:48:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:48:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:48:39 Joerg: Also the beginning of the second day fits in that category. 14:48:59 ... Besides that, we have the core of our activity, the building blocks of our framework and our landscape. 14:49:25 ... I think it will be interested to start with a plenary discussion and then have some break-outs. 14:49:33 i/Let's start by/scribenick: JAB/ 14:49:39 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:49:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html Alan 14:50:09 ... The discussion of which Task Forces and how to organize them will be on the second day. 14:50:34 ... Probably we will have time on Wednesday morning to discuss security and other related issues. 14:51:04 Dave: With respect to the number of F2F the IG could have, I heard some companies willing to move fast, which translates into more meetings. 14:51:34 ... We're planning one for Summer. W3C TPAC will take place in Sapporo, Japan, end of October. 14:52:13 ... How many F2F meetings? What is the best way to work? We try to alternate calls at friendly time for different parts of the world. Is that good enough? 14:53:35 Joerg: To provide some perspective beyond next two days, a question came up about defining the Web of Things. Maybe it's more expressive to start listing building blocks that would make a first version of the Web of Things framework. 14:53:47 ... [showing lists of proposed task forces] 14:54:23 Joerg: If you want to get involved in discussions of some of these building blocks or want to assign priorities, please say so. 14:55:23 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting:_20-22_April_2015_in_Munich#Proposed_Task_Forces list of proposed TFs 14:55:24 ... Even if you do not participate in the next two days, you can review the minutes of these discussions and look at the IG material to understand the focus. 14:55:34 s/... Even/Joerg: Even/ 14:56:25 [ End of the open day ] 14:56:32 RRSAgent, draft minutes 14:56:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/20-wot-minutes.html tidoust 15:27:14 Alan has joined #WoT 15:28:12 Alan has left #wot