IRC log of coga on 2015-04-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:39:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:39:08 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-coga-irc
15:39:17 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, this will be WAI_CogTF
15:39:17 [Zakim]
ok, Lisa_Seeman; I see WAI_CogTF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
15:42:56 [Lisa_Seeman]
regrets: Susann Keohane ,E.A. Draffan,
15:44:54 [Lisa_Seeman]
Chair:Lisa_Seeman
15:44:56 [Lisa_Seeman]
15:44:57 [Lisa_Seeman]
agenda: this
15:44:59 [Lisa_Seeman]
agenda+ review of agenda, new items, anything for the FTF
15:45:00 [Lisa_Seeman]
agenda+ review of actions,techniques
15:45:02 [Lisa_Seeman]
agenda+ Gap analysis methodology https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Methodology_for_gap_analysis
15:45:03 [Lisa_Seeman]
agenda+ Should we be talking about globish?
15:45:05 [Lisa_Seeman]
agenda+ issue papers: Gathering User Preferences and Numbers and the Web
15:45:06 [Lisa_Seeman]
agenda+ be done
15:52:11 [Zakim]
WAI_CogTF()12:00PM has now started
15:52:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.718.618.aaaa
15:53:12 [JohnRochford]
JohnRochford has joined #coga
15:54:36 [Zakim]
+??P1
15:55:12 [JohnRochford]
Zakim, P1 is JohnRochford
15:55:13 [Zakim]
sorry, JohnRochford, I do not recognize a party named 'P1'
15:55:28 [JohnRochford]
Zakim, ??P1 is JohnRochford
15:55:28 [Zakim]
+JohnRochford; got it
15:55:32 [Chaohai_Ding]
Chaohai_Ding has joined #coga
15:56:17 [ayelet]
ayelet has joined #coga
15:57:04 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:57:08 [Chaohai_Ding]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:57:08 [Zakim]
+Chaohai_Ding; got it
16:00:06 [Zakim]
+ +972.5.467.5aabb
16:00:39 [Zakim]
- +972.5.467.5aabb
16:01:26 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, aabb is ayelet
16:01:26 [Zakim]
sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:01:26 [ayelet]
was thrown off the call, be back in a minute
16:01:37 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, 5aabb is ayelet
16:01:37 [Zakim]
sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '5aabb'
16:01:50 [Zakim]
+ +972.5.467.5aacc
16:01:55 [Mike_Pluke]
Mike_Pluke has joined #coga
16:02:03 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, 5aacc is ayelet
16:02:03 [Zakim]
sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '5aacc'
16:02:26 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:02:32 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, +972.5.467.5aacc is ayelet
16:02:32 [Zakim]
+ayelet; got it
16:02:33 [ayelet]
aacc is ayelet
16:02:41 [slee]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:02:41 [Zakim]
+slee; got it
16:02:50 [maryjom]
maryjom has joined #coga
16:03:03 [Zakim]
+??P9
16:03:27 [Mike_Pluke]
zakim, ??P9 is me
16:03:27 [Zakim]
+Mike_Pluke; got it
16:03:35 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, who's here?
16:03:35 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.718.618.aaaa, JohnRochford, Chaohai_Ding, ayelet, slee, Mike_Pluke
16:03:38 [Zakim]
On IRC I see maryjom, Mike_Pluke, ayelet, Chaohai_Ding, JohnRochford, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, slee, janina, MichaelC, trackbot
16:03:40 [Zakim]
+Mary_Jo_Mueller
16:04:40 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:06:28 [Lisa_Seeman]
scribe: ayelet
16:06:38 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
16:06:51 [Lisa_Seeman]
next item
16:07:01 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:07:29 [slee]
Lisa_Seeman: I have to leave early today (I have a birthday tea to make)
16:07:35 [Zakim]
+neilmilliken
16:07:42 [ayelet]
lisa: does anyone feel there's anything urgent to be discussed?
16:07:46 [Ryladog]
Ryladog has joined #coga
16:07:53 [neilmilliken]
neilmilliken has joined #coga
16:08:02 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, item 3
16:08:02 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'item 3', Lisa_Seeman
16:08:07 [Lisa_Seeman]
next item
16:08:31 [Lisa_Seeman]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Methodology_for_gap_analysis
16:08:39 [neilmilliken]
sorry I got way laid
16:09:01 [Tony_Doran]
Tony_Doran has joined #coga
16:10:46 [ayelet]
lisa: the gap analysis is looking at what we have in web accessibility for cognitive, what we'd like to have, and what's missing
16:14:31 [ayelet]
lisa: the methodology is to look at the problems, see if we have a solution, check how credible and helpful it is, see if we have support in w3c standards.
16:15:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.804.749.aadd
16:16:41 [Zakim]
+ +44.289.442.aaee
16:16:52 [Tony_Doran]
Zakim, aaee is me
16:16:52 [Zakim]
+Tony_Doran; got it
16:17:02 [ayelet]
lisa: an example for a well supported feature is the session timeout time.
16:18:28 [ayelet]
lisa: success criteria that needs to be higher
16:19:30 [ayelet]
lisa: format - the easiest is to have it in a table. However, it may be better in a category format as it feeds straight in to the road map
16:20:12 [JohnRochford]
q+
16:21:15 [Lisa_Seeman]
ack jo
16:22:36 [ayelet]
John: why couuldn't we talk first about the commonalities of all cognitive disabilities and afterwards unique disabilities?
16:23:28 [ayelet]
Lisa: If we find it's needed we could do that. However, they seem to be about adaptation except for a few exceptions.
16:23:50 [Mike_Pluke]
Q+
16:24:02 [Lisa_Seeman]
ack q
16:24:07 [ayelet]
Lisa: We could put it under the editing
16:28:16 [Lisa_Seeman]
action: lisa to explain the second example in the methodolgy
16:28:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-86 - Explain the second example in the methodolgy [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-04-20].
16:29:18 [ayelet]
Lisa: are people ok with the research being backed up by confidence and not only research?
16:30:38 [ayelet]
Lisa: some things are so clear that the group has consensus
16:30:47 [Lisa_Seeman]
group agrees
16:30:49 [Lisa_Seeman]
http://www.w3.org/2015/04/draft-wcag-charter
16:31:25 [neilmilliken]
Yes i have seen it
16:31:30 [ayelet]
Lisa: have people saw the change in the wcag charter?
16:31:36 [Ryladog]
Yes I have
16:31:48 [Lisa_Seeman]
WCAG Cognitive Extension
16:31:48 [maryjom]
I have seen it too.
16:32:05 [JohnRochford]
I have not.
16:32:51 [ayelet]
Lisa: On the one hand they've put COGA extensions as one of their deliverables, on the other hand the deadline is November 2015
16:34:00 [ayelet]
Lisa: we should touch base about what they need to have in the extension which we could deliver on time
16:34:00 [maryjom]
q+
16:34:15 [Mike_Pluke]
q-
16:35:18 [slee]
+1
16:35:30 [ayelet]
Lisa: the charter is a 3 year charter, and we should give an extension by November, and give a more ambitious proposal for an extension 3 years later
16:36:03 [ayelet]
Lisa: on the other hand we would have until October 2017 to build the technology
16:36:21 [slee]
Lisa_Seeman: Exciting. I have to go. From that table we have to do an understanding guide as well.
16:37:04 [Zakim]
-slee
16:39:31 [Lisa_Seeman]
action: lisa ask chair of wcag what they need and the format and rule for wcag extention
16:39:31 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-87 - Ask chair of wcag what they need and the format and rule for wcag extention [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-04-20].
16:39:53 [maryjom]
The WCAG charter has been changed for the following reasons: First they want WCAG 2.0 to remain stable for worldwide policy makers to incorporate into their standards.
16:40:00 [Lisa_Seeman]
http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-req/
16:40:10 [Ryladog]
q+
16:41:00 [Lisa_Seeman]
ack ma
16:41:04 [maryjom]
Second to have normative extensions to cover more comprehensive requirements for various disability types.
16:41:31 [maryjom]
Cognitive requirements can be published under such an extension.
16:41:47 [Lisa_Seeman]
ack ryl
16:41:52 [ayelet]
Lisa: There's a playoff of to what extent we want to remain an extension, and to what extent we want to get adopted
16:43:52 [ayelet]
Katie: believes legislation might decide to have different conformance level requirements for WCAG and for the extensions
16:44:16 [Lisa_Seeman]
1. Ensure that requirements may be applied across technologies
16:44:17 [Lisa_Seeman]
2. Ensure that the conformance requirements are clear
16:44:19 [Lisa_Seeman]
3. Design deliverables with ease of use in mind
16:44:21 [Lisa_Seeman]
4. Write to a more diverse audience
16:44:22 [Lisa_Seeman]
5. Clearly identify who benefits from accessible content
16:44:24 [Lisa_Seeman]
6. Ensure that the revision is "backwards and forward compatible"
16:44:30 [Lisa_Seeman]
q?
16:46:03 [ayelet]
Lisa: for 2, if you have 10 accessibility experts in the room, 9/10 need to agree
16:46:57 [ayelet]
Lisa: whether or not things conform
16:48:30 [Zakim]
+??P19
16:48:38 [janina]
zakim, ??P19 is me
16:48:38 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
16:49:04 [ayelet]
Lisa: 5 is easy, but we need to put it in the package we give wcag
16:50:05 [ayelet]
Lisa: 6 might be a problem. maybe we should discuss it with the WCAG chairs
16:50:08 [Lisa_Seeman]
next item,
16:50:40 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, next item
16:50:40 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Gap analysis methodology https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Methodology_for_gap_analysis" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:51:32 [Lisa_Seeman]
q?
16:52:23 [ayelet]
Lisa: How important does the group feel is moving to an editors' draft, even though github supports it?
16:53:31 [ayelet]
* even though github supports the techniques etc
16:53:49 [ayelet]
Janina: The w3
16:53:54 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:54:10 [Ryladog]
Have to drop early sorry
16:54:39 [Mike_Pluke]
Q+
16:54:43 [ayelet]
* Janina: the w3 trusts the expertise of the group's members, and views it as evidence enough
16:55:16 [Lisa_Seeman]
ack mi
16:55:30 [ayelet]
Lisa: in the past evidence was requested
16:56:06 [Lisa_Seeman]
Criteria by which we decide what research to accept:Due to practical constraints most research will simply be cited and not examined for credibility. However the following cases will rely on task force consensuses before inclusion:
16:56:08 [Lisa_Seeman]
Commercial research that implies the use of a specific proprietary product will be examined for scientific credibility before being included
16:56:09 [Lisa_Seeman]
Research where the task force is aware of contradictory evidence (including anecdotal) will be examined for scientific credibility before being included.
16:56:09 [Zakim]
- +1.804.749.aadd
16:56:32 [ayelet]
Janina: consensus of the group usually enough, evidence could be added later
16:56:50 [janina]
q+
16:57:11 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has changed the topic to: 2642
16:57:13 [Zakim]
+??P4
16:57:18 [ayelet]
Mike: always preferable to back it up with research. however, the lack of it shouldn't limit us
16:57:43 [Zakim]
-ayelet
16:58:09 [ayelet]
I was thrown off the call, could someone switch me while I reconnect?
16:58:45 [Lisa_Seeman]
ok
16:59:02 [Zakim]
+ayelet
16:59:06 [ayelet]
thanks
16:59:09 [Lisa_Seeman]
if we dont have reaserch we need a very high confidence level
16:59:18 [Lisa_Seeman]
or we will lose credibility
17:00:19 [Mike_Pluke]
+q
17:00:33 [janina]
ack J
17:00:47 [Lisa_Seeman]
jannia agrees
17:01:04 [ayelet]
Lisa: we will have 2 years to back it up or remove it
17:01:04 [Lisa_Seeman]
john is enging in the reaserch - it will take years
17:01:22 [Lisa_Seeman]
ack mi
17:02:02 [Lisa_Seeman]
Mike likes the example, that text highlighting is a good example of were evidence is needed
17:02:31 [Tony_Doran]
need to drop off.
17:02:37 [Zakim]
-Tony_Doran
17:03:01 [Lisa_Seeman]
95% certenty that it will help most of the people we claim it will help
17:03:01 [Zakim]
-Mary_Jo_Mueller
17:03:19 [Lisa_Seeman]
or we need back up reseach
17:03:55 [Mike_Pluke]
+1
17:04:28 [ayelet]
Lisa: we need to be 95% sure that the techniques would help 51% of the people we claim it will help
17:04:56 [Lisa_Seeman]
a recomendation needs consencis
17:04:57 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:05:03 [ayelet]
Mike: what to do when there is a disgreement?
17:05:40 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:06:01 [janina]
http://www.w3.org/Guide/
17:06:37 [ayelet]
Michel: consensus usually means that everyone could live with the decision even if it isn't their preferred choice
17:07:30 [neilmilliken]
q+
17:07:46 [Lisa_Seeman]
ack neil
17:08:14 [ayelet]
Neil: needs the list of people coming to the ftf
17:08:30 [Lisa_Seeman]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:08:49 [Zakim]
-ayelet
17:08:50 [Lisa_Seeman]
rrsagent, create minutes
17:08:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
17:09:01 [Zakim]
-Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:09:05 [MichaelC]
ack me
17:09:09 [Zakim]
-Mike_Pluke
17:09:20 [Lisa_Seeman]
zakim, please part
17:09:20 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +1.718.618.aaaa, JohnRochford, Chaohai_Ding, +972.5.467.5aabb, ayelet, slee, Mike_Pluke, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Katie_Haritos-Shea,
17:09:20 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #coga
17:09:23 [Zakim]
... Rich_Schwerdtfeger, neilmilliken, +1.804.749.aadd, +44.289.442.aaee, Tony_Doran, janina, Michael_Cooper
17:09:41 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, off