15:39:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
15:39:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-coga-irc
15:39:17 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, this will be  WAI_CogTF
15:39:17 <Zakim> ok, Lisa_Seeman; I see WAI_CogTF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
15:42:56 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets: Susann Keohane ,E.A. Draffan,
15:44:54 <Lisa_Seeman> Chair:Lisa_Seeman
15:44:56 <Lisa_Seeman> 
15:44:57 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda: this
15:44:59 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  review of agenda, new items, anything for the FTF
15:45:00 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  review of actions,techniques
15:45:02 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+   Gap analysis methodology https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Methodology_for_gap_analysis
15:45:03 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  Should we be talking about globish?
15:45:05 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  issue papers: Gathering User Preferences and Numbers and the Web
15:45:06 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+ be done
15:52:11 <Zakim> WAI_CogTF()12:00PM has now started
15:52:18 <Zakim> + +1.718.618.aaaa
15:53:12 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
15:54:36 <Zakim> +??P1
15:55:12 <JohnRochford> Zakim, P1 is JohnRochford
15:55:13 <Zakim> sorry, JohnRochford, I do not recognize a party named 'P1'
15:55:28 <JohnRochford> Zakim, ??P1 is JohnRochford
15:55:28 <Zakim> +JohnRochford; got it
15:55:32 <Chaohai_Ding> Chaohai_Ding has joined #coga
15:56:17 <ayelet> ayelet has joined #coga
15:57:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:57:08 <Chaohai_Ding> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:57:08 <Zakim> +Chaohai_Ding; got it
16:00:06 <Zakim> + +972.5.467.5aabb
16:00:39 <Zakim> - +972.5.467.5aabb
16:01:26 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, aabb is ayelet
16:01:26 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:01:26 <ayelet> was thrown off the call, be back in a minute
16:01:37 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, 5aabb is ayelet
16:01:37 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '5aabb'
16:01:50 <Zakim> + +972.5.467.5aacc
16:01:55 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #coga
16:02:03 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, 5aacc is ayelet
16:02:03 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '5aacc'
16:02:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:32 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, +972.5.467.5aacc is ayelet
16:02:32 <Zakim> +ayelet; got it
16:02:33 <ayelet> aacc is ayelet
16:02:41 <slee> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:02:41 <Zakim> +slee; got it
16:02:50 <maryjom> maryjom has joined #coga
16:03:03 <Zakim> +??P9
16:03:27 <Mike_Pluke> zakim, ??P9 is me
16:03:27 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
16:03:35 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
16:03:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.718.618.aaaa, JohnRochford, Chaohai_Ding, ayelet, slee, Mike_Pluke
16:03:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see maryjom, Mike_Pluke, ayelet, Chaohai_Ding, JohnRochford, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, slee, janina, MichaelC, trackbot
16:03:40 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
16:04:40 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:06:28 <Lisa_Seeman> scribe: ayelet
16:06:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
16:06:51 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:07:01 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:07:29 <slee> Lisa_Seeman: I have to leave early today (I have a birthday tea to make)
16:07:35 <Zakim> +neilmilliken
16:07:42 <ayelet> lisa: does anyone feel there's anything urgent to be discussed?
16:07:46 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #coga
16:07:53 <neilmilliken> neilmilliken has joined #coga
16:08:02 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, item 3
16:08:02 <Zakim> I don't understand 'item 3', Lisa_Seeman
16:08:07 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:08:31 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Methodology_for_gap_analysis
16:08:39 <neilmilliken> sorry I got way laid
16:09:01 <Tony_Doran> Tony_Doran has joined #coga
16:10:46 <ayelet> lisa: the gap analysis is looking at what we have in web accessibility for cognitive, what we'd like to have, and what's missing
16:14:31 <ayelet> lisa: the methodology is to look at the problems, see if we have a solution, check how credible and helpful it is, see if we have support in w3c standards.
16:15:37 <Zakim> + +1.804.749.aadd
16:16:41 <Zakim> + +44.289.442.aaee
16:16:52 <Tony_Doran> Zakim, aaee is me
16:16:52 <Zakim> +Tony_Doran; got it
16:17:02 <ayelet> lisa: an example for a well supported feature is the session timeout time.
16:18:28 <ayelet> lisa: success criteria that needs to be higher
16:19:30 <ayelet> lisa: format - the easiest is to have it in a table. However, it may be better in a category format as it feeds straight in to the road map
16:20:12 <JohnRochford> q+
16:21:15 <Lisa_Seeman> ack jo
16:22:36 <ayelet> John: why couuldn't we talk first about the commonalities of all cognitive disabilities and afterwards unique disabilities?
16:23:28 <ayelet> Lisa: If we find it's needed we could do that. However, they seem to be about adaptation except for a few exceptions.
16:23:50 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
16:24:02 <Lisa_Seeman> ack q
16:24:07 <ayelet> Lisa: We could put it under the editing
16:28:16 <Lisa_Seeman> action: lisa to explain the second example in the methodolgy
16:28:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-86 - Explain the second example in the methodolgy [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-04-20].
16:29:18 <ayelet> Lisa: are people ok with the research being backed up by confidence and not only research?
16:30:38 <ayelet> Lisa: some things are so clear that the group has consensus
16:30:47 <Lisa_Seeman> group agrees
16:30:49 <Lisa_Seeman> http://www.w3.org/2015/04/draft-wcag-charter
16:31:25 <neilmilliken> Yes i have seen it
16:31:30 <ayelet> Lisa: have people saw the change in the wcag charter?
16:31:36 <Ryladog> Yes I have
16:31:48 <Lisa_Seeman> WCAG Cognitive Extension
16:31:48 <maryjom> I have seen it too.
16:32:05 <JohnRochford> I have not.
16:32:51 <ayelet> Lisa: On the one hand they've put COGA extensions as one of their deliverables, on the other hand the deadline is November 2015
16:34:00 <ayelet> Lisa: we should touch base about what they need to have in the extension which we could deliver on time
16:34:00 <maryjom> q+
16:34:15 <Mike_Pluke> q-
16:35:18 <slee> +1
16:35:30 <ayelet> Lisa: the charter is a 3 year charter, and we should give an extension by November, and give a more ambitious proposal for an extension 3 years later
16:36:03 <ayelet> Lisa: on the other hand we would have until October 2017 to build the technology
16:36:21 <slee> Lisa_Seeman: Exciting. I have to go. From that table we have to do an understanding guide as well.
16:37:04 <Zakim> -slee
16:39:31 <Lisa_Seeman> action: lisa ask chair of wcag what they need and the format and rule for wcag extention
16:39:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Ask chair of wcag what they need and the format and rule for wcag extention [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-04-20].
16:39:53 <maryjom> The WCAG charter has been changed for the following reasons: First they want WCAG 2.0 to remain stable for worldwide policy makers to incorporate into their standards.
16:40:00 <Lisa_Seeman> http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2-req/
16:40:10 <Ryladog> q+
16:41:00 <Lisa_Seeman> ack ma
16:41:04 <maryjom> Second to have normative extensions to cover more comprehensive requirements for various disability types.
16:41:31 <maryjom> Cognitive requirements can be published under such an extension.
16:41:47 <Lisa_Seeman> ack ryl
16:41:52 <ayelet> Lisa: There's a playoff of to what extent we want to remain an extension, and to what extent we want to get adopted
16:43:52 <ayelet> Katie: believes legislation might decide to have different conformance level requirements for WCAG and for the extensions
16:44:16 <Lisa_Seeman> 1. Ensure that requirements may be applied across technologies
16:44:17 <Lisa_Seeman> 2. Ensure that the conformance requirements are clear
16:44:19 <Lisa_Seeman> 3. Design deliverables with ease of use in mind
16:44:21 <Lisa_Seeman> 4. Write to a more diverse audience
16:44:22 <Lisa_Seeman> 5. Clearly identify who benefits from accessible content
16:44:24 <Lisa_Seeman> 6. Ensure that the revision is "backwards and forward compatible"
16:44:30 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:46:03 <ayelet> Lisa: for 2, if you have 10 accessibility experts in the room, 9/10 need to agree
16:46:57 <ayelet> Lisa: whether or not things conform
16:48:30 <Zakim> +??P19
16:48:38 <janina> zakim, ??P19 is me
16:48:38 <Zakim> +janina; got it
16:49:04 <ayelet> Lisa: 5 is easy, but we need to put it in the package we give wcag
16:50:05 <ayelet> Lisa: 6 might be a problem. maybe we should discuss it with the WCAG chairs
16:50:08 <Lisa_Seeman> next item,
16:50:40 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, next item
16:50:40 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Gap analysis methodology https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Methodology_for_gap_analysis" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
16:51:32 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:52:23 <ayelet> Lisa: How important does the group feel is moving to an editors' draft, even though github supports it?
16:53:31 <ayelet> * even though github supports the techniques etc
16:53:49 <ayelet> Janina: The w3
16:53:54 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:54:10 <Ryladog> Have to drop early sorry
16:54:39 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
16:54:43 <ayelet> * Janina: the w3 trusts the expertise of the group's members, and views it as evidence enough
16:55:16 <Lisa_Seeman> ack mi
16:55:30 <ayelet> Lisa: in the past evidence was requested
16:56:06 <Lisa_Seeman>  Criteria by which we decide what research to accept:Due to practical constraints most research will simply be cited and not examined for credibility. However the following cases will rely on task force consensuses before inclusion:
16:56:08 <Lisa_Seeman>     Commercial research that implies the use of a specific proprietary product will be examined for scientific credibility before being included
16:56:09 <Lisa_Seeman>     Research where the task force is aware of contradictory evidence (including anecdotal) will be examined for scientific credibility before being included.
16:56:09 <Zakim> - +1.804.749.aadd
16:56:32 <ayelet> Janina: consensus of the group usually enough, evidence could be added later
16:56:50 <janina> q+
16:57:11 <MichaelC> MichaelC has changed the topic to: 2642
16:57:13 <Zakim> +??P4
16:57:18 <ayelet> Mike: always preferable to back it up with research. however, the lack of it shouldn't limit us
16:57:43 <Zakim> -ayelet
16:58:09 <ayelet> I was thrown off the call, could someone switch me while I reconnect?
16:58:45 <Lisa_Seeman> ok
16:59:02 <Zakim> +ayelet
16:59:06 <ayelet> thanks
16:59:09 <Lisa_Seeman> if we dont have reaserch we need a very high confidence level
16:59:18 <Lisa_Seeman> or we will lose credibility
17:00:19 <Mike_Pluke> +q
17:00:33 <janina> ack J
17:00:47 <Lisa_Seeman> jannia agrees
17:01:04 <ayelet> Lisa: we will have 2 years to back it up or remove it
17:01:04 <Lisa_Seeman> john is enging in the reaserch - it will take years
17:01:22 <Lisa_Seeman> ack mi
17:02:02 <Lisa_Seeman> Mike likes the example, that text highlighting is a good example of were evidence is needed
17:02:31 <Tony_Doran> need to drop off.
17:02:37 <Zakim> -Tony_Doran
17:03:01 <Lisa_Seeman> 95% certenty that it will help most of the people we claim it will help
17:03:01 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
17:03:19 <Lisa_Seeman> or we need back up reseach
17:03:55 <Mike_Pluke> +1
17:04:28 <ayelet> Lisa: we need to be 95% sure that the techniques would help 51% of the people we claim it will help
17:04:56 <Lisa_Seeman> a recomendation needs consencis
17:04:57 <MichaelC> ack me
17:05:03 <ayelet> Mike: what to do when there is a disgreement?
17:05:40 <MichaelC> ack me
17:06:01 <janina> http://www.w3.org/Guide/
17:06:37 <ayelet> Michel: consensus usually means that everyone could live with the decision even if it isn't their preferred choice
17:07:30 <neilmilliken> q+
17:07:46 <Lisa_Seeman> ack neil
17:08:14 <ayelet> Neil: needs the list of people coming to the ftf
17:08:30 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, make logs public
17:08:49 <Zakim> -ayelet
17:08:50 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, create minutes
17:08:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/13-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
17:09:01 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:09:05 <MichaelC> ack me
17:09:09 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
17:09:20 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, please part
17:09:20 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.718.618.aaaa, JohnRochford, Chaohai_Ding, +972.5.467.5aabb, ayelet, slee, Mike_Pluke, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Katie_Haritos-Shea,
17:09:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:09:23 <Zakim> ... Rich_Schwerdtfeger, neilmilliken, +1.804.749.aadd, +44.289.442.aaee, Tony_Doran, janina, Michael_Cooper
17:09:41 <MichaelC> rrsagent, off