13:24:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wpay
13:24:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/10-wpay-irc
13:25:01 <dezell> rrsagent, make logs member
13:25:43 <dsr> dsr has joined #wpay
13:26:12 <padler> padler has joined #wpay
13:26:54 <padler> manu /invite RRSAgent
13:27:01 <padler> invite RRSAgent
13:27:14 <padler> Zakim, this will be wpay
13:27:14 <Zakim> wpay matches both T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_USE)10:00AM and T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM
13:27:34 <padler> rrsagent, make logs public
13:27:48 <padler> rrsagent make minutes
13:28:07 <padler> zakim, who is on the call?
13:28:07 <Zakim> sorry, padler, I don't know what conference this is
13:28:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see padler, dsr, RRSAgent, dezell, chaals, Karen, ShaneM_, Zakim, halmas, dlongley, manu, wseltzer, trackbot, Ian
13:28:29 <padler> invite Zakim
13:28:39 <padler> zakim, this will be wpay
13:28:39 <Zakim> wpay matches both T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_USE)10:00AM and T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM
13:28:54 <padler> zakim, who is on the call?
13:28:54 <Zakim> sorry, padler, I don't know what conference this is
13:28:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see padler, dsr, RRSAgent, dezell, chaals, Karen, ShaneM_, Zakim, halmas, dlongley, manu, wseltzer, trackbot, Ian
13:29:14 <padler> zakim, room for 15 for 90 minutes
13:29:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'room for 15 for 90 minutes', padler
13:29:25 <padler> zakim, room for 15 for 90 minutes?
13:29:27 <Zakim> sorry, padler; could not schedule an adhoc conference; passcode overlap; if you do not have a fixed code you may try again
13:30:32 <dezell> zakim, meeting?
13:30:32 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dezell.
13:30:39 <jheuer> jheuer has joined #wpay
13:30:47 <dezell> zakim, what meeting is this?
13:30:47 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dezell.
13:31:10 <dezell> hmmm...
13:31:34 <padler> zakim, who is on the call?
13:31:34 <Zakim>  has not yet started, padler
13:31:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see jheuer, padler, dsr, RRSAgent, dezell, chaals, Karen, ShaneM_, Zakim, halmas, dlongley, manu, wseltzer, trackbot, Ian
13:31:36 <pbazin> pbazin has joined #wpay
13:31:48 <dsr> zakim, this will be 9729
13:31:48 <Zakim> ok, dsr; I see T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM scheduled to start now
13:31:57 <dsr> zakim, call dsr-office
13:31:57 <Zakim> ok, dsr; the call is being made
13:32:44 <padler> zakim, who is on the call?
13:32:44 <Zakim> T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM has not yet started, padler
13:32:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see pbazin, jheuer, padler, dsr, RRSAgent, dezell, chaals, Karen, ShaneM_, Zakim, halmas, dlongley, manu, wseltzer, trackbot, Ian
13:34:13 <dezell> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:34:13 <Zakim> T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM has not yet started, dezell
13:34:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see pbazin, jheuer, padler, dsr, RRSAgent, dezell, chaals, Karen, ShaneM_, Zakim, halmas, dlongley, manu, wseltzer, trackbot, Ian
13:34:54 <dezell> zakim, this is T&S.
13:34:54 <Zakim> T&S matches both T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_USE)10:00AM and T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM, dezell
13:35:12 <dezell> zakim, this is 9:30AM.
13:35:12 <Zakim> ok, dezell; that matches T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM
13:35:32 <dezell> zakim, who is on the phone.
13:35:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', dezell
13:35:37 <dezell> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:35:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see padler, +33.1.55.01.aaaa, +49.303.3.aabb, Dsr, dezell
13:36:19 <dezell> zakim, 49 is jheuer.
13:36:19 <Zakim> sorry, dezell, I do not recognize a party named '49'
13:36:29 <padler> Topic: Agenda
13:36:31 <padler> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Apr/0059.html
13:36:33 <dezell> zakim, aabb is jheuer
13:36:33 <Zakim> +jheuer; got it
13:36:49 <dezell> zakim, aaaa is pbazin.
13:36:49 <Zakim> +pbazin; got it
13:37:18 <padler> zakim, who is on the call?
13:37:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see padler, pbazin, jheuer, Dsr, dezell
13:37:35 <dezell> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webpayments-ig/2015Apr/0059.html
13:37:42 <dezell> scribenick: dezell
13:37:54 <dezell> Meeting: Web Payments Payment Agent TF
13:38:08 <dezell> rrsagent, make minutes.
13:38:08 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes.', dezell.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:38:16 <dezell> rrsagent, make minutes
13:38:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/10-wpay-minutes.html dezell
13:39:24 <Zakim> +Erik
13:39:48 <dezell> DE: I think this call is the place where Erik's missive needs to be addressed.
13:45:26 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #wpay
13:45:28 <padler> padler has joined #wpay
13:45:35 <chaals1> chaals1 has joined #wpay
13:45:36 <Karen_> Karen_ has joined #wpay
13:45:39 <padler> zakim, who is on the call?
13:45:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see padler, pbazin, jheuer, Dsr, dezell, Erik
13:45:48 <dlongley> dlongley has joined #wpay
13:45:52 <Erik> Erik has joined #WPAY
13:46:04 <dezell2> dezell2 has joined #wpay
13:46:08 <dsr_> dsr_ has joined #wpay
13:46:12 <padler> zakim, who is on the call?
13:46:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see padler, pbazin, jheuer, Dsr, dezell, Erik
13:46:20 <dezell2> David: I think the existing short list is good – X9.68, X9.73, X9.119pt2 is a good starting list.  Add ISO12812 and ISO20022.
13:46:20 <dezell2> Erik:  so this looks OK.
13:46:33 <dezell2> scribenick:  dezell2
13:46:56 <pbazin> pbazin has joined #wpay
13:47:19 <padler> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-ig/blob/master/latest/payment-agent/index.html
13:47:28 <jheuer> +1 to W3C playing an important role in a global payment standard
13:48:25 <dezell2> Topic: Discuss updates related to alignment
13:49:29 <dezell2> David: I think the existing short list is good – X9.68, X9.73, X9.119pt2 is a good starting list.  Add ISO12812 and ISO20022.
13:49:29 <dezell2> Erik:  so this looks OK.
13:49:46 <dezell2> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-ig/blob/master/latest/payment-agent/index.html as well as any proposed updates
13:49:57 <jheuer> what can you do when you just see the HTML in order to get to the document?
13:50:49 <dezell2> pat: we've broken into 4 sections.
13:51:00 <pbazin> to see html: get the raw content and copy it into a local html file, then display it with your browser
13:51:26 <jheuer> really?!
13:51:38 <dezell2> s/4/several/
13:52:35 <dezell2> pat: 4 sections - introduction, detailed reqs and use case illustration, references, acknowledgements.
13:52:49 <dezell2> s/ and/,/
13:52:59 <padler>     1.1 The Challenge with Payments on the Web     1.2 Key Principles and Goals     1.3 Elements of a Unified Web Payments Architecture     1.4 Deployment Contexts     1.5 Functional Contexts (Role)     1.6 Putting things together
13:53:16 <Erik> http://htmlpreview.github.io/
13:56:15 <padler> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-ig/blob/master/latest/payment-agent/index.html
13:56:47 <jheuer> works for me
13:57:04 <pbazin> works for me
13:58:08 <dezell2> pat: we need to review the introduction.  There are three major sections, similar to how we broke down use cases into "phases", we've taken a similar approach.
13:58:37 <dezell2> pat: section 1.3 describes "what we want the payment architecture to be able to do."
13:58:49 <dezell2> pat: section 1.4 describes "who."
13:59:36 <padler> q?
14:01:08 <padler> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-ig/blob/master/latest/payment-agent/index.html
14:02:54 <dezell2> pat:  I think the functional units 1.3.3 etc. describe the functional areas.
14:02:57 <dezell2> q+
14:03:30 <jheuer> q+
14:04:44 <dezell2> Erik: there is an interoperability risk for tokens (for example).
14:05:32 <padler> q?
14:05:40 <dezell2> Pat: so each functional area may need more explanation.
14:06:43 <padler> q?
14:06:48 <padler> ack dez
14:07:12 <dezell2> dezell: I suggest drop API from the description and replace components with "functionalities"
14:07:33 <dezell2> joerg: one thing that has made it possible to make progress is to use APIs.
14:08:23 <Erik> q+
14:08:27 <dezell2> joerg: can we describe a transaction in a way that makes use of the APIs.
14:08:36 <dezell2> q+
14:08:43 <dezell2> ack jheuer
14:09:42 <dezell2> joerg: be cautious about thinking "API" or "functionality" - we need abstractions.
14:10:24 <dezell2> pat: so I hear "what are the core logical services that can be assembled into a payment transaction."
14:11:39 <dezell2> pat: Section 1.3 is the functional "whats".
14:11:43 <padler> q?
14:11:47 <dezell2> ack Erik
14:12:43 <dezell2> Erik: I think we need not to give too much wiggle room in the APIs.  There shouldn't be a difference between a payment and a coupon.
14:12:53 <jheuer> +1 to encapsulating on an abstract level
14:13:26 <dezell2> pat: yes, interoperability requires very specific definitions.
14:13:40 <dezell2> pat: that will be addressed later in the document.
14:14:23 <jheuer> don't think we  could understand how coupons, loyalty, etc. work - we can only try to channelize where they pass through
14:14:49 <jheuer> ... and how they are represented and handled by e.g. user agents
14:14:58 <padler> q?
14:18:26 <jheuer> +1 to aligning with use case 'phasing'
14:19:25 <padler> q?
14:19:29 <padler> ack dez
14:21:08 <padler> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/webpayments/raw-file/default/WD/use-cases/2015-04-16/index.html
14:22:22 <dezell2> dezell: Ithink we need to approach both sides of ISO20022 - dictionary/message and business process definition.
14:23:10 <dezell2> pat: working from flows in 6.1.  It's important to break these flows out, and describe where these functions might be running.
14:23:58 <dezell2> q?
14:24:00 <padler> q?
14:25:27 <jheuer> q+
14:26:08 <padler> q?
14:26:15 <padler> ack jheuer
14:26:38 <dezell2> joerg:  I'm starting to wonder how my initial contribution maps to what we have here.
14:26:45 <dezell2> zakim, mute Erik.
14:26:45 <Zakim> Erik should now be muted
14:27:17 <dezell2> joerg: my warning - given the genericness, I'm worried about boiling things down to technology.
14:27:36 <dezell2> joerg: I'd like to try to map what I had previously to what we have here.
14:28:00 <dezell2> joerg:  my thinking was horizontal payment agent, but this model is very vertical.
14:28:31 <dezell2> joerg: should W3C actually try to solve all these problems?
14:28:36 <dezell2> q+
14:28:54 <dezell2> joerg:  I feel pressure in the payment industry to solve lots of these problems.
14:29:15 <dezell2> joerg: but I don't see a clear mapping.
14:30:13 <dezell2> pat:  I can see that there might be maps to the functional goals in 1.3, informed by prototypes.
14:30:41 <jheuer> I'm happy to provide such input, pat
14:30:56 <dezell2> pat: but I'm not sure how the previous work actually solves the problems.
14:31:09 <dezell2> rrsagent, make minutes
14:31:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/10-wpay-minutes.html dezell2
14:31:31 <dezell2> chair: Patrik Adler
14:32:24 <dezell2> q?
14:32:31 <padler> q?
14:32:45 <Erik> I dont think that we should have different flows based on the capabilities of a different device. I believe that regulatory constraints, say a transactional value of < $300 doesnt need a biometrics as part of the transaction. I believe that regulatory support should be brought in such that if a transaction is of a high value then biometrics is required
14:32:58 <Erik> q+
14:33:43 <jheuer> q+
14:35:27 <padler> ack dezell
14:35:31 <dezell2> ack Erik
14:36:18 <dezell2> Erik:  TecSec said don't limit payment capabilities based on the device.
14:37:07 <dezell2> Erik: as mobile devices get better, validation capabilities will get better.
14:37:47 <dezell2> q?
14:38:08 <dezell2> ack joerg
14:38:18 <dezell2> ack jo
14:38:24 <dezell2> ack jh
14:38:48 <dezell2> joerg: we have gone from an area where I could solve problems, and now we're in an area where I can't.
14:39:11 <Erik> Thats why we are a group jheuer!
14:39:19 <dezell2> joerg: I will do my best to bring this all together.
14:39:34 <dezell2> zakim, close the queue
14:39:34 <Zakim> ok, dezell2, the speaker queue is closed
14:40:17 <dezell2> pat: we are calling this document "Payment Agent" but we are really describing a "Payment Architecture for the Web".
14:40:47 <jheuer> I'm a decomposer by heart! Hope that helps...
14:41:24 <padler> q?
14:41:39 <dezell2> rrsagent, make minutes
14:41:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/10-wpay-minutes.html dezell2
14:42:48 <dezell2> pat: big topic - more and more interest.  We need to start framing this document as a unified architecture.
14:42:56 <dezell2> +1 to "unified architecture"
14:43:51 <dezell2> rrsagent, make minutes
14:43:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/10-wpay-minutes.html dezell2
14:44:34 <Zakim> -Erik
14:44:35 <Zakim> -padler
14:44:37 <Zakim> -dezell
14:44:37 <Zakim> -jheuer
14:44:40 <Zakim> -pbazin
14:44:58 <Zakim> -Dsr
14:44:59 <Zakim> T&S_WEBPYMT(WPAY_AGENT)9:30AM has ended
14:44:59 <Zakim> Attendees were padler, +33.1.55.01.aaaa, +49.303.3.aabb, Dsr, dezell, jheuer, pbazin, Erik
14:48:01 <dezell2> Present: pbazin,jheruer, dezell, padler, eanderson, draggett
14:48:06 <dezell2> rrsagent, make minutes
14:48:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/10-wpay-minutes.html dezell2
14:51:50 <dezell2> s/unified architecture/calling this "unified web payment architecture"/
14:51:58 <dezell2> rrsagent, make minutes
14:51:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/10-wpay-minutes.html dezell2