14:59:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
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14:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:59:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:59:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
14:59:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:59:13 <trackbot> Date: 08 April 2015
14:59:33 <Steven_> Chair: Steven
14:59:39 <Steven_> Regrets: Nick, Philip
15:00:05 <Steven_> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0010
15:00:14 <Steven_> Steven_ has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0010
15:00:52 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
15:01:00 <Zakim> +??P0
15:01:10 <Steven_> zakim, I am ?
15:01:11 <Zakim> +Steven_; got it
15:02:10 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:02:11 <Zakim> sorry, alain, I do not see a party named '[IPcaller]'
15:02:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:26 <alain> Zakim, I am [Ipcaller]
15:02:26 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:04:26 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:06:22 <Steven> Topic: Rechartering
15:06:54 <Steven> Steven: I'm a bit cross that they didn't talk to us first... but I guess they are expecting us to work from out of the community group
15:07:01 <Steven> \... until they recharter us next month.
15:07:16 <Steven> ... my guess anyway, because as I say, this was a bit out of the blue.
15:10:38 <Steven> ... I'll be contacting them, and keep you in contact
15:10:46 <Steven> Topic: JSON-to-XML and CSV-to-XML mappings in XForms 2.0
15:10:46 <Steven> [No link yet]
15:10:46 <Steven> Topic: JSON-to-XML and CSV-to-XML mappings in XForms 2.0
15:10:46 <Steven> [No link yet]
15:11:50 <Steven> Steven: Anything to say yet?
15:12:44 <Steven> Erik: I haven't looked at his stuff yet, but I am studying the issue at the moment. We haven't implemented it yet; that is in progress, to give us some experience so that we can give him some better feedback.
15:13:14 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2020: Propose what to do if serialization in serialize()
15:13:14 <Steven> fails
15:13:14 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Apr/0008
15:15:45 <Steven> Erik: Alain points out some places where it can go wrong.
15:15:58 <Steven> ... we could have some rules on recovering
15:16:47 <Steven> ... defaulting to string and so on
15:17:07 <Steven> ... if we do actually want error handling, that stops serialization.
15:17:13 <Steven> ... Four ways we could do it
15:17:20 <Steven> ... 1. XPath dynamic error
15:17:28 <Steven> .... (in the spec now)
15:17:47 <Steven> ... similar to an exception
15:18:09 <Steven> ... 2. Return an empty sequence
15:18:45 <Steven> ... 3 return an error document
15:18:52 <Steven> s/3/3./
15:19:29 <Steven> ... 4. Dispatch an event
15:19:38 <Steven> ... similar to dynamic error
15:20:52 <Steven> Erik: We would like to specify the granularity of error handling
15:21:29 <Steven> ... we don't have the mechanisms really
15:21:36 <Steven> .... next best is to follow XPath
15:21:56 <Steven> ... that will interrupt the action,
15:22:17 <Steven> ... which sould generate an error event
15:22:24 <Steven> s/sould/would/
15:22:37 <Steven> Erik: None of this is ideal.
15:22:55 <Steven> Steven: What do you do Alain?
15:23:13 <Steven> Alain: It is a lax function, but I don't think that is the right approach
15:24:16 <Steven> ... it is an author problem.
15:24:26 <Steven> ... not a runtime problem.
15:26:56 <Steven> Steven: I imagined that we would just do a best-possible serialization.
15:27:24 <Steven> ... if you hacve <a type="number">abc</a> then just serialise it as a: abc
15:28:08 <Steven> Erik: Or ignore noes in different namespaces, let the author manipulate extra nodes if that is useful.
15:28:13 <Steven> Steven: I agree with that.
15:29:27 <Steven> Steven: The spec says "this is how you convert JSON to XML, and serialization is the reverse", we could be more specific
15:29:43 <Steven> Erik: At least mention that extra nodes are ignored.
15:30:38 <Steven> Steven: Would we be happy with a best-try version, which does what it can without complaining?
15:30:43 <Steven> Erik: That would be OK
15:30:55 <Steven> Alain: Yes, I'm fine, just makes debugging harder, that's all.
15:31:20 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to make serialization of JSON more explicit.
15:31:20 <trackbot> Error finding 'Steven'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
15:33:13 <Steven> Steven: Damn. That means the issue tracker is messed up...
15:34:38 <Steven> Erik: "If serialization fails, a dynamic error is raised" in the spec.
15:34:48 <Steven> Steven: I don't think that will happen.
15:35:20 <Steven> Topic: XPath Expressions Module, 4.4 to end
15:35:20 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#Date_and_Time_Functions
15:37:54 <Steven> Steven: All date examples use  dates in 2006. Leave as is, or make more modern?
15:38:32 <Steven> Erik: I think 2015 or 16 would be good.
15:38:36 <Steven> Alain: Agree
15:39:36 <Steven> Steven: Section 4.5.3 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#The_id.28.29_Function
15:39:52 <Steven> "Note:
15:39:52 <Steven> When an ID is assigned to a attribute by asigning any type derived from xsd:ID by an XML schema, or the type model item property that inform the ID type information is provided to the XPath data model. And consequently the is-id accessor will return true."
15:40:14 <Steven> Steven: I don't understand this.
15:41:46 <Steven> Steven: What is the is-id accessor?
15:41:46 <ebruchez> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-datamodel/#dm-is-id
15:42:05 <Steven> Steven: Then we need to link to that.
15:43:10 <Steven> Steven: SO this is saying that a thing is an id thanks to its type and not any other reason.
15:43:16 <Steven> s/So/
15:43:22 <Steven> s/SO/So/
15:44:08 <Steven> Steven: 4.5.5 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#The_bind.28.29_Function
15:44:28 <Steven> " It is an error to specify a non existing bind ID."
15:44:40 <Steven> Steven: What does that mean?
15:45:30 <Steven> Erik: Same arguments as we just had for serialize
15:45:46 <Steven> Erik: I think it would be reasonable to return an empty sequence
15:47:03 <Steven> Erik: The bind attribute says that the binding becomes empty, and the bind-error event is dispatched.
15:47:53 <Steven> Steven: So we will return the empty sequence
15:47:56 <Steven> Erik: Yes.
15:48:32 <Steven> Steven: 4.6.3 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#The_parse.28.29_Function
15:49:04 <Steven> Steven: Doesn't return an error, only the empty sequence. OK?
15:49:37 <Steven> Erik: I was looking at the DOM's parse function. You would expect an exception, but it doesn't do that.
15:49:52 <Steven> ... they return a funny XML document.
15:51:55 <Steven> Erik: There are several possible approaches, this is one. At least you know there is an error.
15:52:39 <Steven> Steven: Leave as is?
15:52:42 <Steven> Erik: Yes.
15:52:46 <Steven> Alain: OK
15:55:06 <Steven> Steven: 4.8.1 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#The_location-uri.28.29_Function
15:55:25 <Steven> "NOTE: If an implementation is not on the client, the fragment might not be returned."
15:55:45 <Steven> Steven: What is being suggested here?
15:56:00 <Steven> Erik: That is related to how we implement things on the server.
15:56:44 <Steven> ... some implementations may not know what was after the #
15:57:37 <Steven> Steven: 4.11 http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XPath_Expressions_Module#Error_Indications
15:57:50 <Steven> Steven: It refers to exceptions, but that text should go
15:58:42 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:58:47 <Steven> Steven: Anything?
15:58:50 <Steven> [none]
15:58:58 <Zakim> -Steven_
15:58:59 <Zakim> -ebruchez
15:59:01 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:59:02 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:59:02 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
15:59:03 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven_, [IPcaller], ebruchez
15:59:09 <Steven> Present+Alain
15:59:18 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:59:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/08-forms-minutes.html Steven
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