16:55:52 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:55:52 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-ua-irc 16:56:01 Zakim, this will be UAWG 16:56:01 ok, Jan; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes 16:56:10 Meeting: WAI UA 16:56:40 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/att-0056/00-part 16:56:52 Regrets: Jim Allan 17:00:17 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:00:24 +Jeanne 17:00:39 zakim, code? 17:00:39 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 17:01:00 +[IPcaller] 17:01:23 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 17:01:23 +Jan; got it 17:01:52 Judy has joined #ua 17:02:02 zakim, code? 17:02:02 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Judy 17:02:47 +Judy 17:03:52 Chair: Jan Richards (in for Jim) 17:05:51 agenda? 17:06:03 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/att-0056/00-part 17:07:08 +Kim_Patch 17:08:03 agenda? 17:08:15 Topic: charter comment update and plan for completing UAAG 2.0 17:08:21 agenda+ charter comment update and plan for completing UAAG 2.0 17:08:21 agenda+ documenting implementations for Risk Assessment 17:08:21 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Main_Page#Implementation 17:08:37 JB: Is there a formal way that the mobile group reports back 17:08:56 JS: No, but Kim does a report every couple of months 17:09:06 Kim has joined #ua 17:09:09 agenda+ Responding to followup comments from Shawn https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0055.html 17:10:16 JB: Asks about how agenda works in this group 17:10:17 agenda+ checking with people who've newly expressed interest 17:10:30 JR: Added with Agenda: but not tracked automatically 17:11:20 JB: Have heard recently about people interested in joining 17:12:09 Scribe: Kim 17:13:16 JB: Two member orgs 17:14:22 JB: Actually 4 member orgs 17:15:54 Judy: I think one way to do this just because of what's in progress right now is Jeanne you and I reaching out to them 17:16:06 Zakim, take up agendum 1 17:16:06 agendum 1. "charter comment update and plan for completing UAAG 2.0" taken up [from jeanne] 17:17:25 JB: We had put out charters as a package 17:17:35 Judy: Better turnout of viewers than we had before. 17:17:37 JB: Comments and support but also objections 17:17:56 JB: INcluding to this group continuing.... based on assumption of no credible progress 17:18:31 Judy: Objections to this group continuing based on no credible progress and questioning importance of the work and also some people noting that there was a real urgent need for work with UAAG in WCAG 17:18:31 JB: No browser participation or sceptism re: browser implementation 17:19:03 Judy: Look at the actual status, in some cases that is better than what we've been communicating especially in long period of comments 17:19:46 Judy: also given that the browsers aren't necessarily involved in every group that they have interest in, hard for them to be involved in every group, has been some history of some dialogue. In addition what you are working on also is relevant for implementation to the vertical stack 17:20:07 Judy: the vertical stack, and other words in this case the plug-ins and extensions, not necessarily the assistive technology, but at least the plug-ins and extensions 17:20:25 Judy: also a preliminary overview of implementations – you may actually have a fair amount of feature coverage but we don't know how much 17:21:00 Judy: one other relevant piece of information is you are close to closing the comments out 17:21:42 Judy: so you might be closer to CR, next few months. If you were to close as a note how relevant would that be – would the work be significantly weakened or better 17:22:31 Judy: those are some of the things that have come up through this review process. We actually want to figure out pretty quickly is the group still interested in continuing. What kind of plans do you think a realistic, what kind of steps in pursuing the rec track 17:23:29 Judy: one of the reasons I'm visiting today is because we need to determine pretty quickly whether the group wants to continue, what your most objective assessment of your own status is, what do you think the priorities might be if you were to focus on getting yourselves expeditiously into candidate recommendation in the next few months 17:24:55 Judy: I left out one other important piece of information. Jeanne and I did a pre-discussion with one of the people who do candidate recommendation. Confirmed that most groups including very large groups are using a very simple set of exit criteria, which is two implementations feature by feature basis, independent and not the more elaborate exit criteria like we were trying to do for atag 17:25:41 Judy:we are hearing from the advisory committee now that speed is the key thing they are looking for and I'm no longer worried you will be up against show me this working in five different types of things or whatever. So if you can get into candidate rec by clearing the remaining comments you should be able to get out of it 17:26:10 Jan: until recently I had concerns, but with those simplified criteria I think we can get out of rec 17:26:36 KP: I agree, simplified criteria are key and I think we should continue and we can get done. 17:26:40 q+ 17:27:08 Jeanne: one of the key things is the vertical stack – writing our definition 17:29:39 Jan: we have collected implementations 17:30:05 Jeanne: some of those documents are old, it would take some work 17:34:05 Judy: you and Jan have about two thirds of the tests written, and because of the atag test harness you have two thirds of that, maybe a quarter of the data you need for the risk assessment, maybe a few new members and the definition of user agent but not integrated into the vertical stack yet – you need some time to do that. 17:34:06 Judy: If you had a year, would that give enough time to put together stuff. 17:34:08 Judy: the key thing is a plan to do that – close of the comments, finish the test suite here are the tasks that are needed, here is the timeframe 17:34:34 Judy: here are the parallel paths that could be done in these of the time frames we think we could do them in if we applied our work here among the tasks and assigned new people coming in 17:34:47 Greg has joined #ua 17:35:24 Jan: I agree – that's a great sounding plan. As well getting that implementation table done – and simple as here the SCs and here are the two or three tools that we think meet each one is a way to push back on people who say UAAG is just pie-in-the-sky. 17:35:33 +Greg_Lowney 17:35:41 Judy: you need that to, run in parallel with the other things 17:36:12 rrsagent, make minutes 17:36:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-ua-minutes.html jeanne 17:36:18 rrsagent, make logs public 17:36:30 Judy: Greg looking over minutes so far 17:38:03 Judy: quick summary – lots of charter comments, more engagement on the charter reviews than ever before including objections, among those close group because of lack of progress. Also potential for implementation through the vertical stack and a more reasonable set of exit criteria, clear requirements that may make it easier to get in and also out of rec track 17:38:58 Judy: reason for my visit today is if you want to continue on rec track rather than note, which would be more impact, my guess is you wouldn't be able get more than a year of charter time. I want to be able to re-present the charter package within the next week. Looking for what could be said about this group and that package. 17:39:08 Judy: there were a few new groups that expressed interest in joining. You may be getting a few new folks 17:39:58 Greg: new people joining is a mixed bag. More help is appreciated but it can also slow things down as they want to revisit. 17:41:16 Judy: we want people to come in and move it forward 17:42:18 Start of a plan... 17:42:26 Concluding comment processing. 17:42:35 Risk assessment for CR 17:42:39 Completing Tests 17:42:50 Judy: there's other things you could be doing, such as comments. I don't want to hold that up. I can propose something. Short-term needs concluding commenting, stabilize working draft, risk assessment for CR completing tests. none of these are easy 17:43:27 Judy: let's visit each of these briefly. Is there something we can say on the comment process? Waiting for Microsoft, information from Shawn 17:43:36 Jan: haven't taken them up yet 17:44:36 Judy: process? 17:44:37 Jeanne: usually Jim and I will do a triage of comments sort out the ones that can be done quickly without approval, try to get those out of the way first then propose comments for discussion and ask for proposals. Sometimes need discussion before we can get a proposal. 17:45:09 Judy: Sounds like a very multistep process. In some groups people do a proposal right off. 17:49:31 Judy: 4 topics it would be good to move forward on. Comment status and comment processing. 17:49:33 Judy: Cynthia, Shawn and Silas 17:50:23 Jeanne: Shawn about three 17:50:31 Judy: maybe a dozen total 17:51:25 Judy: if the timeouts had been there and you would have been able to go to the rec draft yet. possible to ignore after timeout. 17:51:47 Judy: if a new working draft that says it's a check before going to CR for all you know you may get more comments – is that the general feeling in the group? 17:52:10 Jan: I don't feel like there are people bursting to give as comments, on the other hand there may be people who might take a deeper look given CR 17:52:34 Judy: on comments I think it's probably hardest figure out what to say because there's some unknowns there. 17:52:46 Judy: test harness 17:53:09 Jeanne: test harness separate issue, negotiate with Kevin 17:53:25 Jeanne: tests, probably two people days of work left 17:55:41 -Judy 17:56:55 -Jan 17:56:57 Jan: probably would be a good idea for the next protocol to put down that basic plan. Jeanne you wrote that for atag. As much as possible bring in the URI's, here's our implementation 17:57:05 Judy has left #ua 17:59:58 Greg: how formal is this document 18:00:44 Jeanne: needs to be a document to point to to show work 18:02:48 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/UAAG_2.0_Completion_Plan 18:07:32 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0055.html 18:28:19 Greg has joined #ua 18:28:46 UAAG 2.0 Implementation Report http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/ 18:28:48 UAAG 2.0 Implementation Comments - Google Sheets https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17yZwJOko7jDwxv8oH5sZtL2V1BEt2fREdDEgsTcEbiY/ (only a few entries Firefox) 18:29:09 -Greg_Lowney 18:43:17 -Kim_Patch 18:43:19 -Jeanne 18:43:20 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:43:20 Attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Judy, Kim_Patch, Greg_Lowney 18:44:38 rrsagent, make minutes 18:44:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-ua-minutes.html Kim 18:48:41 rrsagent, make minutes 18:48:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-ua-minutes.html jeanne