14:43:26 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:43:26 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-irc
14:43:28 RRSAgent, make logs world
14:43:30 Zakim, this will be 2119
14:43:30 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 43 minutes ago
14:43:31 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:43:31 Date: 19 March 2015
14:43:40 zakim, agenda?
14:43:40 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:43:41 6. "ARIA in HTML" Issues from PF [from janina]
14:43:41 7. Face to face meeting CfC - results [from janina]
14:43:41 8. Keyboard access - https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Keyboard [from janina]
14:43:45 zakim, clear agenda
14:43:45 agenda cleared
14:43:51 Chair: Janina
14:43:51 agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:43:54 agenda+ Additional agenda?
14:43:57 agenda+ HTML AAM CfC Update
14:43:59 agenda+ CfC on CfCs Reminder http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Mar/0038.html
14:44:02 agenda+ HTML-WG Face to Face -- Sam, Paul
14:44:05 agenda+ A11y Topics at the F2F
14:44:07 agenda+ Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress
14:44:10 agenda+ Alt Doc Update Shane, Liam
14:44:12 agenda+ Noteref Proposal David, John
14:44:15 agenda+ Media Subteam Update -- John, Shane, Janina
14:44:17 agenda+ TF Open Actions http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track
14:44:20 agenda+ Other Business
14:44:22 agenda+ Identify Chair and Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:44:25 agenda+ be done
14:49:17 zakim, call janina-mobile
14:49:17 ok, janina; the call is being made
14:49:19 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:49:20 +Janina
14:50:05 zakim, who's here?
14:50:05 On the phone I see Janina
14:50:07 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Joshue108, newtron, LJWatson, ShaneM, MarkS, janina, liam, sivoais, Zakim, joanie, cabanier, trackbot
14:50:28 zakim, take up item 1
14:50:29 agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
14:53:38 regrets: Rich
14:54:02 paulc has joined #html-a11y
14:55:06 Welcome back, Paul!
14:57:54 zakim, what is the code?
14:57:54 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
14:58:20 +[Microsoft]
14:58:29 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
14:58:29 +paulc; got it
14:58:32 Paul on mute
14:58:38 bad cold
14:58:44 Ah, sorry to hear that!
15:00:52 +Joanmarie_Diggs
15:01:56 + +1.617.319.aaaa
15:02:20 zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:20 +MarkS; got it
15:02:30 +[IPcaller]
15:03:56 +Liam
15:05:25 +Judy
15:05:31 Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:06:00 zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:06:00 +LJWatson; got it
15:06:08 scribenick: LJWatson
15:06:17 zakim, next item
15:06:17 agendum 2. "Additional agenda?" taken up [from janina]
15:06:28 +ShaneM
15:06:52 JS: Additions to the agenda?
15:07:02 zakim, close item 2
15:07:02 agendum 2, Additional agenda?, closed
15:07:04 I see 12 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:04 3. HTML AAM CfC Update [from janina]
15:07:13 zakim, next item
15:07:13 agendum 3. "HTML AAM CfC Update" taken up [from janina]
15:07:42 JS: The CFC on the HTML API mapping closed last night, with positive feedback.
15:08:04 JS: Will issue the decision this evening Eastern time.
15:09:10 JS: If the HTML CFC happens soon, we should be able to hit our target date in March.
15:10:30 JS: After meetings within PF, domain leads etc. we're resolved that PF does not need to co-own the ARIA in HTML module.
15:11:13 rrsagent, make minutes
15:11:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:11:18 zakim, next item
15:11:18 agendum 4. "CfC on CfCs Reminder http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Mar/0038.html" taken up [from janina]
15:11:49 JS: Suggestion that in future we should have the ability to run concurrent CFC with PF and HTML WGs.
15:11:56 JS: Only positive responses to date.
15:13:07 JS: GOal is to keep non-controversial things moving forward effectively.
15:13:16 zakim, next item
15:13:16 agendum 5. "HTML-WG Face to Face -- Sam, Paul" taken up [from janina]
15:13:35 JS: Is it on? Is there an agenda?
15:14:07 PC: Chairs are not planning on an HTML WG meeting. The media TF will meet Wd/THu, and we're waiting to hear about the A11y TF.
15:14:50 s/Wd/THu,/Wd/Thu,/
15:15:21 JS: Not enough people can make it, so no TF meeting I think.
15:15:25 zakim, next item
15:15:25 agendum 6. "A11y Topics at the F2F" taken up [from janina]
15:15:36 zakim, close item 6
15:15:36 agendum 6, A11y Topics at the F2F, closed
15:15:38 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:38 7. Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress [from janina]
15:15:43 zakim, next item
15:15:43 agendum 7. "Canvas 2D Level 1 Progress" taken up [from janina]
15:15:51 rrsagent, make minutes
15:15:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:16:18 JS: Difficult to discuss without Rich.
15:16:43 JS: Hit regions... there is interest in putting support into Chrome, fairly quickly it seems.
15:17:00 JS: With the implimentation in FF, Chrome would give us our two implementations.
15:17:21 MS: Dominic Mazzoni thinks the spec is ok.
15:17:45 JS: WHat's the optimum trajectory?
15:18:43 PC: As a minimum we need to republish at whatever step in the process the doc is currently at. We also need implementation example evidence.
15:18:43 +Cynthia_Shelly
15:18:57 rrsagent, make minutes
15:18:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:19:27 JS: Need an indication from Google on Chrome implementation timetable.
15:19:33 MS: Don't know at this point.
15:20:17 MS: We have an implementation report at about 80%, with the info from Chrome we'll have that wrapped up.
15:20:29 zakim, next item
15:20:29 agendum 8. "Alt Doc Update Shane, Liam" taken up [from janina]
15:20:39 rrsagent, make minutes
15:20:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:21:31 JS: We've learned definitively that there is nothing in this doc that is not already in the HTML spec. So thinking is that we don't need to publish in two places.
15:22:40 q+ to propose that we publish a note immediately that says it is no longer being worked on and reference HTML 5.0
15:22:49 JS: One option is to file bugs on the HTML spec and get changes made there, other option is to reduce guidance in HTML spec and retain two documents.
15:23:19 http://rawgit.com/w3c/alt-techniques/master/index.html#graphical-representations-charts-diagrams-graphs-maps-illustrations
15:23:39 LQ: Have done some editing with Shane's help.
15:24:28 LQ: We're getting it into shape for publication as a stand-alone note.
15:24:51 LQ: Have added examples.
15:25:03 q+
15:25:37 LQ: Remaining edit is to take out pie chart example, maybe replace with a bar chart example and change the topic. Plus a couple of minor things.
15:26:03 LQ: We could reorganise it to make it clearer, and it could do with a serious copy-edit too.
15:26:13 q?
15:26:18 ack sh
15:26:18 ShaneM, you wanted to propose that we publish a note immediately that says it is no longer being worked on and reference HTML 5.0
15:26:22 q+
15:27:22 ack p
15:27:22 See http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/NOTE-html-picture-element-20140722/ for a WG Note for material that was completely included into HTML5 and therefore was not duplicated in the WG Note. Note there are no References in this WG Note.
15:27:29 SM: Suggest we publish as a note, then as a TF we feed future guidance to Steve to be made in the HTML spec.
15:27:45 Can someone take over scribing a moment.
15:28:57 PC: Agree with step 1 of Shane's suggestion.
15:29:15 s/Can someone take over scribing a moment.//
15:29:22 ack ju
15:29:25 PC: Step 2 seems possible.
15:30:17 s/PC: Step 2 seems possible./PC: Step 2 seems possible, with bugs filed on the definitive source./
15:30:26 JB: Anyone here from WCAG WG?
15:30:52 JB: LIam could you follow up with Michael Cooper?
15:30:52 ack l
15:30:52 liam, you wanted to say ok with emptyish note; we could continue to edit in editor's draft until happy
15:30:57 LQ: Yes.
15:31:58 LQ: Would be fine with this TF publishing a note. We can continue editing in the editor's draft, with a note explaining our intent. Then when it's stable, moving it to HTML would be fine with me.
15:32:40 q?
15:32:45 LQ: Best practices in the alt doc needs to mention other specs, and possibly UA bugs, which might not be appropriate for content within the spec itself?
15:33:28 PC: If you have text pointing at browser bugs, that sounds like it would be more appropriate to go into the bug itself?
15:33:56 PC: AC reps approved this...
15:34:38 +[IPcaller]
15:34:43 PC: If concerned about something in the spec, file a bug.
15:35:16 SteveF has joined #html-a11y
15:37:11 q?
15:37:16 LQ: We publish a new, empty, note that explains the advice can now be found in the HTML spec. We (the TF) then continue editing a separate document, with a view to moving the advice into the HTML spec once it's stable.
15:37:56 (1) we republish the note but as empty, pointing to the HTML spec, "This is no longer being developed as a separate specification, there is no content here. You can find the alt text attribute guidelines in the HTML 5 specification. "
15:38:10 PC: If you do a CFC here to publish the note, then do it at the WG level with an explanation that the WG note will point to the HTML spec.
15:38:12 (2) we continue to work on the editor's draft (adding text explaining what's going on)
15:38:19 q?
15:38:47 JS: WOuld be useful to have this prposed new note available, so we can point to it in the CFC.
15:39:03 JS: Liam can you do that?
15:39:03 q+
15:39:07 LQ: Yes.
15:39:15 ack st
15:39:18 (3) when we have consensus on the text, it goes into HTML (via bugs or via editing HTMl 5.1) and possibly also into techniques and tutorials
15:40:16 SF: The part of the spec that deals with the elements of HTML (where this alt advice will live) will become a separate module.
15:40:52 SF: So would be good if we could get together on working on that same document. So working directly on the module.
15:41:20 JS: Steve, you're proposing that instead of working on a stand-alone editor's draft, we work directly on the spec module?
15:41:23 SF: Yes.
15:41:49 +1
15:41:56 JS: I see no problem.
15:42:07 LQ: It's fine. It's basically the same plan.
15:42:27 q+
15:42:52 LQ: Would rather work on the editor's draft and agree text more before moving it.
15:43:08 SF: That's ok.
15:43:57 q?
15:43:59 rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:44:03 ack l
15:44:03 liam, you wanted to note this is not inconsistent with what emerged today as a plan
15:44:16 ack p
15:44:29 PC: Steve, don't think your suggestion changes the proposed plan.
15:44:35 q?
15:44:35 SF: Ok.
15:45:25 PC: We need to be careful about references from the note into 5.1, because as the HTML spec separatees into modules those references will change.
15:45:50 q?
15:46:09 zakim, next item
15:46:09 agendum 9. "Noteref Proposal David, John" taken up [from janina]
15:46:46 JS: Has been discussion, but not sure where it ended up.
15:47:23 SM: We're working on related tasks. General concensus is that the idea of note is good, and we have some basic semantics.
15:47:55 rrsagent, make minutes
15:47:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
15:48:23 zakim, next item
15:48:23 agendum 10. "Media Subteam Update -- John, Shane, Janina" taken up [from janina]
15:49:05 JS: Believe we've dealt with all but one comment, where we need clarification.
15:49:38 JS: JS: Don't know that the wiki is up to date.
15:50:14 JS: Assuming our edits are accepte, we're on track to publish.
15:50:29 s/accepte,accepted,/
15:51:37 JS: Want to give guidance to WGs working on APIs. Proposal is to finish the note as it is, then go back and either create a second doc or a second version of the note that includes WebRTC.
15:53:33 q?
15:53:44 zakim, next item
15:53:44 agendum 11. "TF Open Actions http://w3.org/wai/pf/html/track" taken up [from janina]
15:55:04 action-142?
15:55:04 action-142 -- Cynthia Shelly to File HTML bug about methods that should fail when an element has @hidden set -- due 2015-02-12 -- OPEN
15:55:04 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/142
15:55:21 CS: It's old and has been overcome.
15:55:50 action-189?
15:55:50 action-189 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate what MS products do with lang attribute -- due 2015-02-08 -- OPEN
15:55:50 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/189
15:55:57 CS: Still relevant.
15:56:04 action-226?
15:56:04 action-226 -- Steve Faulkner to Tell james nurthen about the outstanding issues on imagemaps -- due 2014-01-23 -- OPEN
15:56:04 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/226
15:56:15 SF: Um.
15:56:30 LQ: From Jan last year.
15:56:43 SF: Will try to recall/find out.
15:57:05 JS: Relating to the work on the ARIA APG?
15:57:11 SF: Don't think so.
15:57:36 SF: Filed browser bugs about imagemaps last year, perhaps related.
15:57:54 action-274?
15:57:54 action-274 -- Cynthia Shelly to Add more information to https://www.w3.org/bugs/public/show_bug.cgi?id=13572 -- due 2015-02-08 -- OPEN
15:57:54 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/274
15:58:32 CS: Bug is old.
15:58:58 CS: Give me a month?
15:59:09 action-297?
15:59:09 action-297 -- Cynthia Shelly to Present a proposal on menus -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN
15:59:09 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/297
15:59:46 CS: Give me until 6th Aug.
16:00:30 rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:00:55 action-303?
16:00:55 action-303 -- Shane McCarron to Present alt doc changes -- due 2015-02-12 -- OPEN
16:00:55 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/303
16:01:06 action-307?
16:01:06 action-307 -- Shane McCarron to Illustrate the duplications between html5 and alt-techniques -- due 2015-02-19 -- OPEN
16:01:06 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/307
16:01:15 LQ: Both can be closed.
16:01:18 close action 307
16:01:24 rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/19-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:01:27 action-307 close
16:01:33 zakim, list participants
16:01:33 As of this point the attendees have been Janina, paulc, Joanmarie_Diggs, +1.617.319.aaaa, MarkS, Liam, Judy, LJWatson, ShaneM, Cynthia_Shelly, [IPcaller]
16:01:36 -Judy
16:01:37 -Cynthia_Shelly
16:01:39 -LJWatson
16:01:39 -Joanmarie_Diggs
16:01:40 -Liam
16:01:42 zakim, drop janina
16:01:42 Janina is being disconnected
16:01:44 -Janina
16:01:45 -[IPcaller]
16:01:52 -ShaneM
16:02:01 -MarkS
16:06:37 -paulc
16:06:37 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:06:37 Attendees were Janina, paulc, Joanmarie_Diggs, +1.617.319.aaaa, MarkS, Liam, Judy, LJWatson, ShaneM, Cynthia_Shelly, [IPcaller]
16:32:19