18:52:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:52:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-aapi-irc
18:52:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
18:52:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:52:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:52:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
18:52:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:52:21 <trackbot> Date: 17 March 2015
18:53:11 <clown> agenda: this
18:53:17 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-692/ACTION-1554: (Cynthia/Joseph) UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- confirm edits.
18:53:24 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1444: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role presenatation when in tables and lists.
18:53:30 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-describedy when CSS display:none.
18:53:45 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA Express and UIA mapping for aria-colindex/aria-rowindex.
18:53:56 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements.
18:54:06 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1533: (Joanie) Investigate minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests.
18:54:16 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1542: (Joanie) Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to Joseph.
18:54:28 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia, David, Alex) Mapping of role rowgroup.
18:54:37 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-980: (Joseph/David/Alex) Define mappings for managed aria related states.
18:54:47 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1590: (Joseph/James) Confirm that the AXAPI mapping of aria-owns is AXOwns array
18:54:55 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:55:29 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
18:55:35 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
18:55:47 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:55:47 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
18:55:53 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:55:54 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:56:01 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:58:04 <clown> brb
18:59:48 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
19:03:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
19:03:48 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
19:04:57 <Zakim> + +1.650.738.aaaa
19:07:42 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:08:19 <joanie> Zakim, aaaa is Bryan_Garaventa
19:08:20 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa; got it
19:09:02 <joanie> regrets+ David_Bolter
19:09:33 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
19:09:39 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:09:39 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ISSUE-692/ACTION-1554: (Cynthia/Joseph) UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- confirm edits." taken up [from clown]
19:09:47 <clown> action-1554?
19:09:47 <trackbot> action-1554 -- Cynthia Shelly to Provide UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-02-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:09:47 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1554
19:09:57 <joanie> JS: This is a holdover from last week.
19:09:59 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
19:09:59 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
19:10:23 <joanie> JS: I have written up all the mappings for searchbox and wanted verification from everyone that the mappings are correct.
19:10:25 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
19:10:34 <joanie> JS: I am waiting to hear back from Cynthia.
19:10:46 <joanie> RS: Let me take a look.
19:11:14 <joanie> RS: There is an issue here. You are probably going to want to implement accessible text for this, also for IA2.
19:11:20 <joanie> JS: I got this from Surkov.
19:11:37 <joanie> RS: I don't think he was thinking about the interface when you asked.
19:12:19 <clown> "The object represents selectable text that allows edits or is designated read-only"
19:13:16 <clown> rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-textarea
19:13:27 <joanie> JD: I see that the mapping does not say anything about needing to implement the accessible text interface.
19:13:46 <joanie> JD: And yes, the accessible text interface does need to be implemented.
19:14:03 <joanie> JD: I'm questioning if it needs to be specified for each of these mappings.
19:14:19 <joanie> JD: Because all text objects should implement the accessible text interface.
19:14:47 <joanie> JS: I think you're right that for IA2 we need to add a statement about multiline versus singleline.
19:15:04 <joanie> RS: I think you also need to add that the text interface needs to be implemented.
19:15:22 <joanie> JS: I just typed it in earlier (reads)
19:15:39 <joanie> RS: That's great, but how do you know where the caret is, what text is selected, etc.?
19:20:08 <joanie> JS: I'm happy to update the mappings to mention that the accessible text interface needs to be implemented for searchbox and textbox.
19:20:29 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:20:38 <joanie> JD: Makes sense to me, though from scanning through the mappings, I see a number of cases where interfaces are not mentioned at all.
19:21:16 <joanie> RS: Perhaps Alex Surkov can provide you with a list of the roles which implement accessible text and editable text.
19:21:54 <joanie> JS: I know there's an issue in the HTML mapping spec where Jason asked if we should add all the interfaces.
19:24:25 <joanie> JS: This first topic was about the UIA mappings. We've gotten far away from that.
19:25:21 <cyns> having phone trouble
19:26:06 <joanie> Zakim: take up item 6
19:26:22 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 6
19:26:22 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1533: (Joanie) Investigate minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests." taken up [from clown]
19:26:26 <clown> action-1533
19:26:26 <trackbot> action-1533 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Investigate and possibly create a minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. -- due 2015-03-03 -- OPEN
19:26:26 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1533
19:27:23 <joanie> JD: Make it 1 May please.
19:27:26 <joanie> JS: Done.
19:27:44 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 7
19:27:44 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ACTION-1542: (Joanie) Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to Joseph." taken up [from clown]
19:27:49 <clown> action-1542?
19:27:49 <trackbot> action-1542 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to joseph. -- due 2015-02-24 -- OPEN
19:27:49 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1542
19:27:50 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
19:27:50 <joanie> JD: No updates.
19:28:02 <cyns> zakim, microsoft has me
19:28:02 <Zakim> +cyns; got it
19:28:51 <clown> action-1515?
19:28:51 <trackbot> action-1515 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Discuss issue-678 at the mon aria teleconference. -- due 2015-02-24 -- CLOSED
19:28:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1515
19:28:52 <joanie> JD: I'll ping them I guess. They've not done anything on that bug.
19:28:59 <joanie> JS: I make it 1 May as well.
19:29:19 <joanie> JS: This is also related to action-1515.
19:29:26 <joanie> JD: We'll see where they are in May.
19:29:39 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:29:39 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ISSUE-692/ACTION-1554: (Cynthia/Joseph) UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- confirm edits." taken up [from clown]
19:29:46 <clown> action-1554?
19:29:46 <trackbot> action-1554 -- Cynthia Shelly to Provide UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-02-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:29:46 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1554
19:30:05 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
19:30:14 <joanie> JS: We discussed this last week. You (Cynthia) said give you a week to look it over.
19:30:29 <joanie> JS: The text in the spec is based on the notes you gave me.
19:30:34 <joanie> CS: That looks fine.
19:31:09 <joanie> Zakim, [Microsoft] is Cynthia_Shelly
19:31:09 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly; got it
19:31:21 <clown> issue-692?
19:31:21 <trackbot> issue-692 -- Map role="searchbox" -- raised
19:31:21 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/692
19:31:28 <joanie> JS: This action is also associated with issue-692.
19:31:44 <joanie> JS: Now that all the actions are closed, I think we can close issue-692.
19:31:51 <joanie> JS: Any objections?
19:31:57 <joanie> CS and RS: None.
19:32:19 <joanie> JS: I'll add something about implementing accessible text for some of the platforms for searchbox.
19:32:23 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:32:23 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1444: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role presenatation when in tables and lists." taken up [from clown]
19:32:31 <clown> action-1444?
19:32:31 <trackbot> action-1444 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2015-02-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:32:31 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444
19:32:38 <joanie> JS: This is more than just ATK/AT-SPI2.
19:32:50 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation
19:32:59 <joanie> JS: I put some text in the presentation role regarding presentation tables and lists.
19:33:03 <joanie> JS: The URL is above.
19:33:13 <clown> For objects that have required owned descendants (e.g., a grid owns gridcells, a list owns listitems), expose each leaf descendant as ROLE_SECTION.
19:34:06 <joanie> JS: I put it in for ATK and UIA, customizing it for each platform (ROLE_SECTION for ATK, Text Pattern for UIA).
19:34:15 <joanie> CS: Document structure is very different for UIA.
19:34:18 <clown> For objects that have required owned descendants (e.g., a grid owns gridcells, a list owns listitems), expose each leaf descendant using the text pattern.
19:34:25 <joanie> JS: Above is the text for UIA.
19:34:55 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation
19:35:22 <joanie> JS: Now that I'm looking at it, I'm wondering why there are not similar sentences for UIA Express and IA2.
19:36:39 <joanie> action-1444
19:36:39 <trackbot> action-1444 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update atk/at-spi2 mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2015-02-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:36:39 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1444
19:37:24 <joanie> JD: That looks good to me.
19:37:30 <joanie> JS: Then I will close this action.
19:37:44 <clown> action-1445?
19:37:44 <trackbot> action-1445 -- Cynthia Shelly to Investigate the ideal uai mapping for role presentation in tables and lists. -- due 2015-01-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:37:44 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1445
19:37:54 <joanie> issue-661
19:37:55 <trackbot> issue-661 -- UAIG1.1: Specify how to map children of table/lists with role presentation. -- open
19:37:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/661
19:38:12 <joanie> JS: Is what I've done for UIA sufficient? (This is for action-1445)
19:38:14 <joanie> CS: Yes.
19:38:21 <joanie> JS: Then I was close action-1445 as well.
19:38:49 <joanie> JS: What's left on the issue is action-1311 which is the bigger issue related to panels and groups.
19:38:59 <joanie> JS: We're waiting on the ARIA caucus to finish that work.
19:39:10 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:39:10 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for aria-describedy when CSS display:none." taken up [from clown]
19:39:20 <clown> action-1104?
19:39:20 <trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2015-03-15 -- OPEN
19:39:21 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
19:39:54 <joanie> CS: I haven't done anything with this yet, though I'm talking to people internally.
19:40:24 <joanie> JS: April 7th?
19:40:28 <joanie> CS: Yes.
19:40:47 <joanie> Zakim, next item.
19:40:47 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1309: (Cynthia) UIA Express and UIA mapping for aria-colindex/aria-rowindex." taken up [from clown]
19:41:03 <joanie> action-1309
19:41:03 <trackbot> action-1309 -- Cynthia Shelly to Determine the best place to map aria-colindex and aria-rowindex for msaa+uiexpress and uia. -- due 2015-03-10 -- OPEN
19:41:03 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1309
19:42:14 <joanie> JS: This one is about mapping aria-colindex and aria-rowindex.
19:42:31 <joanie> JS: Does this related to the current discussion about rowcount, etc.?
19:42:52 <joanie> RS: Yes. There's a computation aspect to these.
19:46:43 <joanie> CS: When do you think this is going to stablize?
19:48:17 <joanie> RS: Tables are big enough, we probably are looking at a month.
19:48:35 <joanie> CS: So give me that month, plus a week.
19:49:46 <joanie> RS: We should get the tables and panels, and then do a heartbeat for the spec.
19:49:58 <joanie> JS: Also aria-current.
19:50:12 <joanie> RS: And that includes mappings.
19:50:18 <joanie> RS: 1st week of May?
19:50:26 <joanie> JS: It should be doable.
19:50:31 <joanie> (Group agrees)
19:51:07 <joanie> RS: I'll mention this on Thursday's call.
19:51:26 <joanie> JS: We're going to need mappings for rowindex, colindex, etc. for all the platforms.
19:51:29 <joanie> RS: Yes we are.
19:52:20 <clown> https://developer.gnome.org/libatspi/2.13/libatspi-atspi-table.html
19:52:38 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:52:38 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements." taken up [from clown]
19:52:46 <clown> action-1373?
19:52:46 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2015-02-23 -- OPEN
19:52:46 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
19:52:49 <joanie> JS: Another one for Cynthia! :)
19:53:00 <clown> issue-441?
19:53:00 <trackbot> issue-441 -- Normative UAIG requirements for what UAs do when aria-posinset or aria-setsize is provided explicitly on some, but not all, elements within a set. -- open
19:53:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/441
19:53:05 <joanie> CS: Give me a week on this one.
19:53:24 <joanie> JS: The 24th.
19:53:28 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:53:28 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, joanie
19:53:35 <joanie> Zakim, close item 5
19:53:35 <Zakim> agendum 5, ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements., closed
19:53:38 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:53:38 <Zakim> 6. ACTION-1533: (Joanie) Investigate minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests. [from clown]
19:53:54 <joanie> Zakim, close item 6
19:53:54 <Zakim> agendum 6, ACTION-1533: (Joanie) Investigate minimal/skeleton javascript at-spi2 listener with the aim of automating the 1.1 tests., closed
19:53:56 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:53:56 <Zakim> 7. ACTION-1542: (Joanie) Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to Joseph. [from clown]
19:54:00 <joanie> Zakim, close item 7
19:54:00 <Zakim> agendum 7, ACTION-1542: (Joanie) Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to Joseph., closed
19:54:02 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:54:02 <Zakim> 8. ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia, David, Alex) Mapping of role rowgroup. [from clown]
19:54:09 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 8
19:54:09 <Zakim> agendum 8. "ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia, David, Alex) Mapping of role rowgroup." taken up [from clown]
19:54:36 <clown> issue-700?
19:54:36 <trackbot> issue-700 -- Discuss rowgroup, tbody, and thead in aapis -- open
19:54:36 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700
19:54:45 <clown> action-1544?
19:54:45 <trackbot> action-1544 -- Cynthia Shelly to Document rowgroup mappings for ie 11 for both uia express and uia -- due 2015-02-03 -- OPEN
19:54:45 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1544
19:54:50 <clown> action-1546?
19:54:50 <trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
19:54:50 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
19:55:07 <joanie> JS: The mappings for rowgroup.
19:55:14 <joanie> RS: Wasn't Alex going to do this?
19:55:15 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup
19:55:30 <joanie> JS: Did you ask him in that email?
19:55:50 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Feb/0060.html
19:56:00 <joanie> JS: The above link is the email.
19:56:18 <joanie> JS: His answer is that I only see one use for role rowgroup.
19:56:29 <joanie> JS: (Reads Alex's response from the email)
19:56:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
19:56:41 <joanie> RS: Nobody else maps it.
19:56:49 <joanie> JS: He does seem to be saying he wants to map it.
19:56:56 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup
19:56:58 <joanie> RS: Is he the only one who wants to map it?
19:57:05 <joanie> JS: Here (above) are the current mappings.
19:57:11 <joanie> JS: (Reads from mappings)
19:57:42 <joanie> JS: ATK doesn't map it and AX API doesn't map it.
19:57:52 <joanie> JS: So two map it, and two don't.
19:58:00 <joanie> JS: Is that right for UIA, Cynthia?
19:58:02 <joanie> CS: Yes.
19:58:41 <joanie> CS: There's a larger issue here. I think we actually need a synonym for group that is not the generic group.
19:59:14 <joanie> JD: Will the new panel role address that?
19:59:40 <joanie> CS: Possibly.
20:00:18 <joanie> JS: Another point Alex makes: Firefox doesn't expose tbody, thead, etc. as accessibles unless the author makes them focusable.
20:00:37 <joanie> JS: If the author makes it focusable, then there needs to be an accessible for it.
20:01:09 <joanie> RS: If a rowgroup had a role of group, it wouldn't really matter would it?
20:01:11 <joanie> JS: No.
20:01:16 <joanie> RS: There you go.
20:01:38 <joanie> JS: Should the mapping table have that exception, namely not mapped unless focusable in which case it has the group role?
20:01:50 <joanie> RS: I think so, though I'd like to hear other people's thoughts on it.
20:02:28 <joanie> JD: If it has to be exposed, I guess that's the way to go. But it's going to mess up the hierarchy.
20:04:16 <joanie> JS: Is the conclusion that we're willing to accept this mapping if the rowgroup is focusable?
20:04:26 <joanie> (Group agrees)
20:05:03 <joanie> JS: I'll create a branch of the mapping spec, named according to the issue number (700), and put that text in and we can revisit it next week.
20:05:32 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
20:05:53 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Mar/0004.html
20:06:06 <joanie> Topic: Homework for next week
20:06:08 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:06:12 <joanie> Read https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2015Mar/0004.html
20:06:21 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
20:06:22 <clown> yes, read the thread.
20:06:26 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:06:26 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.650.738.aaaa, Bryan_Garaventa, cyns, Cynthia_Shelly
20:06:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:08:07 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:08:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:09:12 <joanie> present- cyns +1.650.738.aaaa
20:09:15 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:09:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/17-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:09:39 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop