16:55:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:55:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-irc
16:55:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:55:27 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
16:55:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:55:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
16:55:30 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:55:30 <trackbot> Date: 12 March 2015
16:55:37 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
16:55:48 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
16:55:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-minutes.html allanj
16:56:03 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
16:56:20 <allanj> chair: JimAllan
16:59:18 <allanj> Agenda+ Exit Criteria -
16:59:20 <allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0044.html
16:59:21 <allanj> Agenda+ implementations
16:59:23 <allanj> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Main_Page#Implementation
17:02:06 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:02:13 <Zakim> +Jeanne
17:02:21 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:02:42 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
17:03:05 <Zakim> +Greg_Lowney
17:03:10 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
17:04:08 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
17:04:27 <Jan> zakim, code?
17:04:27 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
17:04:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:05:35 <Jan> Zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
17:05:35 <Zakim> +Jan; got it
17:05:47 <allanj> scribe: allanj
17:08:00 <Kim> Kim has joined #ua
17:09:54 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/TR/mobile-accessibility-mapping/
17:10:32 <allanj> topic: Mobile
17:10:47 <allanj> discussion of Note vs Spec.
17:12:04 <allanj> Henny Swan's talk at CSUN referenced UAAG20 several times
17:12:18 <jeanne> s/discussion of Note vs Spec./discussion of Note vs Spec. for Mobile
17:15:30 <allanj> discussion of where something happened in rendering vs UI, is too complicated.
17:16:47 <allanj> open item 1
17:17:00 <allanj> Topic: Exit Criteria
17:17:57 <allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0044.html
17:19:30 <allanj> js: remove independent implementations, change to implementations on 2 user agents or combination of UAs with extensions
17:20:07 <allanj> ... keep 2 steps
17:20:37 <allanj> ... remove note on independent implementations and a, b, c, bullets
17:21:19 <allanj> ... remove "independent" from step 2.
17:22:31 <allanj> gl: have 2 implementations doesn't make it any more likely that other UAs will do something.
17:23:09 <allanj> js: 2 implementations is a legacy from 2 interoperable for the languages
17:23:18 <Greg> s/something./something than having only 1./
17:23:30 <allanj> jr: what about "tools that fully meet"
17:23:42 <allanj> js: was removed ago
17:24:30 <allanj> Exit Criteria
17:24:32 <allanj> The User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group intends to submit this document for consideration as a W3C Proposed Recommendation as soon as the following conditions are met. We expect to complete testing and show evidence of meeting all exit criteria, and change or remove the at-risk items as needed, no earlier than @@[date]@@.
17:24:33 <allanj> 1. Define test cases: Update the set of tests needed to cover all UAAG normative success criteria.
17:24:35 <allanj> 2. Test Implementations: Perform these tests and verify at least two results on user agents, and to the extent needed, combinations of user agents and extensions.
17:26:17 <jeanne> s/js: was removed ago/js: was never in the proposal, even in the first draft. We don't have any implementation that is even close.
17:27:02 <allanj> ja: any objections to using the above as the Exit Criteria
17:27:08 <allanj> jr: +1
17:27:13 <allanj> gl: +1
17:27:17 <allanj> kp:=1
17:27:19 <jeanne> +1
17:27:23 <allanj> +1
17:27:29 <allanj> s/=1/+1
17:27:46 <allanj> close item 1
17:28:08 <allanj> open item 2
17:28:20 <allanj> topic: implementations
17:28:30 <allanj> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Main_Page#Implementation
17:28:41 <allanj> http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/
17:29:27 <allanj> https://docs.google.com/a/tsbvi.edu/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiiGLIaAlHSKdHNrcGNacUp2MHdXQW9sUmpBQ21Lenc&usp=drive_web#gid=0
17:31:49 <allanj> ja: do we have to test all types of UA - desktop, mobile, media players, readers, apps, etc
17:33:00 <allanj> js: don't need a Level A for each category, but find implementations in each category
17:35:07 <allanj> testing - http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Tests_for_CR
17:37:28 <allanj> how to test... http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#principle-AT-access
17:38:33 <jeanne> action: Jeanne to run a diff from September to current ED draft to get all the changes to update the wiki page of tests.
17:38:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1074 - Run a diff from september to current ed draft to get all the changes to update the wiki page of tests. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-03-19].
17:39:15 <allanj> and the implementation report page
17:39:30 <allanj> http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/
17:40:55 <allanj> media players: bbc, ami, quicktime, real, wmp,
17:41:09 <allanj> jr: fluid from OCAD
17:41:45 <allanj> Readers: Epub reader,
17:43:10 <Jan> Fluid Infusion Video Player: http://build.fluidproject.org/videoPlayer/demos/Mammals.html
17:44:54 <allanj> mobile: Safari - ipad, mercury - iphone, atomicweb - iphone, ff on droid, chrome on droid,
17:45:19 <allanj> jr: pick the ones that have a good chance of passing,
17:45:31 <Jan> brb
17:45:43 <allanj> brb
17:46:39 <allanj> back
17:46:47 <Jan> back
17:47:14 <allanj> kp: use mercury and puffin on iphone, best chance of meeting SCs
17:47:56 <allanj> gl: category of UA...embedded browsers, smart phones, blue ray players, televisions, yikes...
17:49:24 <allanj> jr: apple TV
17:51:22 <Greg> s/, smart phones//
17:54:52 <allanj> http://www.sourcetreeapp.com/
17:55:03 <allanj> for use with github
18:02:44 <Zakim> -Jan
18:04:38 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
18:04:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-minutes.html jeanne
18:04:44 <allanj> allanj has joined #ua
18:05:59 <allanj> readers: readium chrome, epubreader on FF
18:07:55 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:08:52 <allanj> Topic: tests for 4.1.1
18:10:22 <allanj> 4.1.1 Support Platform Accessibility Services: The user agent supports relevant platform accessibility services. (Level A)
18:11:04 <allanj> gl: the key thing ... we can do spot checking, but to do an exhustive check is nearly impossible
18:11:30 <allanj> s/exhustive/exhaustive
18:12:07 <allanj> for 4.1.1 we can check the documentation
18:12:14 <Greg> For example, we can easily use Inspector to verify that a Windows-based browser is exposing things through MSAA, but it would be hard to impossible to check that it exposes everything it should.
18:12:39 <Greg> If it fails to expose generated content (e.g. list numbers, like IE does), does it still pass?
18:12:51 <allanj> and we could use other inspector tools on other platforms to verify
18:14:32 <allanj> js: is this in the documentation?
18:15:26 <allanj> ja: should say somewhere that a UA supports platform accessibility API, bounce keys, repeat keys, highcontrast mode
18:16:26 <allanj> js: create a test page with all of the elements, to see what is passed to the accessibility api
18:18:39 <allanj> gl: generated content, image alt, longdesc, accesskeys,
18:19:53 <allanj> gl: what are the specifics we need to test for
18:20:24 <Kim> Kim has joined #ua
18:21:25 <allanj> ... there is not good way to test in 4.13
18:21:41 <allanj> s/4.13/4.1.3
18:27:12 <allanj> gl: really difficult. test UI components to see what is not exposed in the accessibility API, then find another way the browser allows the user to do the task that does expose all of the info to the accessibility api
18:27:44 <Greg> Jeanne points out that we may need to rephrase 4.1.3 so that UA can pass either by providing a workaround or not needing any. Otherwise we run the risk of having all UA get N/A here, none passing, and thus fail our exit criteria.
18:29:15 <jeanne> 'ATAG: The authoring tool does not automatically generate web content after the end of an authoring session or authors can specify that the content be accessible web content
18:30:19 <jeanne> Another example from ATAG: The authoring tool does not place restrictions on the web content that authors can specify or those restrictions do not prevent WCAG 2.0 success criteria from being met.
18:31:57 <allanj> rewrite for 4.1.3
18:33:16 <jeanne> 4.1.3 Provide Equivalent Accessible Alternatives: The UA user interface functionality is exposed through platform accessibility services, or the user agent provides equivalent functionality that can be exposed through the platform accessibility service. (Level A)
18:34:58 <jeanne> 4.1.3 Provide Equivalent Accessible Alternatives: UA user interface functionality is exposed through platform accessibility services, or the user agent provides equivalent functionality that can be exposed through the platform accessibility service. (Level A)
18:35:18 <Greg> That looks fine.
18:35:19 <allanj> +1
18:35:29 <allanj> kp: looks good
18:37:09 <allanj> Resolution: change 4.1.3 to  Provide Equivalent Accessible Alternatives: UA user interface functionality is exposed through platform accessibility services, or the user agent provides equivalent functionality that can be exposed through the platform accessibility service. (Level A)
18:38:26 <jeanne2> jeanne2 has joined #ua
18:39:01 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:39:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:39:29 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
18:39:30 <allanj> zakim, please part
18:39:30 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:39:30 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, Jan
18:39:46 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:39:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:40:35 <allanj> rrsagent, please part
18:40:35 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-actions.rdf :
18:40:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeanne to run a diff from September to current ED draft to get all the changes to update the wiki page of tests. [1]
18:40:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-ua-irc#T17-38-33