13:00:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub-aria
13:00:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-dpub-aria-irc
13:00:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #dpub-aria
13:00:40 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
13:00:40 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I don't know what conference this is
13:00:42 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #dpub-aria
13:00:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see richardschwerdtfeger, RRSAgent, Zakim, mgylling, pkra, tzviya, ivan, janina, MichaelC
13:00:56 <janina> zakim, this will be 2742
13:00:56 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_ARIA TF(ARIA)9:00AM scheduled to start now
13:01:02 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
13:01:02 <Zakim> WAI_ARIA TF(ARIA)9:00AM has not yet started, janina
13:01:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see mgarrish, richardschwerdtfeger, RRSAgent, Zakim, mgylling, pkra, tzviya, ivan, janina, MichaelC
13:01:15 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2742
13:01:15 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_ARIA TF(ARIA)9:00AM
13:01:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:01:33 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
13:01:38 <Zakim> +??P4
13:01:49 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_ARIA TF(ARIA)
13:01:50 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_ARIA TF(ARIA)9:00AM already started
13:02:32 <MichaelC> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:02:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tzviya, pkra, Susann_Keohane, ??P19, [IPcaller], Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper
13:03:24 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P19 is Janina
13:03:24 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
13:03:29 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #dpub-aria
13:03:44 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate this channel with #pf
13:03:44 <trackbot> Associated this channel with #pf.
13:04:02 <Zakim> +Markus
13:04:45 <tzviya> zakim, who is here?
13:04:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tzviya, pkra, Susann_Keohane, Janina, [IPcaller], Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Markus
13:04:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see trackbot, mgarrish, richardschwerdtfeger, RRSAgent, Zakim, mgylling, pkra, tzviya, ivan, janina, MichaelC
13:05:35 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Matt_Garish
13:05:35 <Zakim> +Matt_Garish; got it
13:05:49 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #dpub-aria
13:05:56 <MichaelC> zakim, matt is Matt_Garrish
13:05:56 <Zakim> +Matt_Garrish; got it
13:06:37 <MichaelC> MichaelC has changed the topic to: DPub ARIA task force; Zakim 2742
13:06:39 <tzviya> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html
13:06:49 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #dpub-aria
13:06:53 <Zakim> +ShaneM
13:06:55 <janina> scribe: janina
13:07:11 <janina> ts: Hoping my voice holds out!
13:07:51 <janina> ts
13:07:51 <janina> t
13:08:17 <tzviya> scribenick: tzviya
13:09:14 <tzviya> mgarrish: assuming we don't need to deal with prefix (DPUB) issue, we can address some of the other questions
13:09:47 <tzviya> janina: we determined that our coordination will prevent us from having clashes
13:10:48 <tzviya> mgarrish: issue 1: role = "abstract
13:11:09 <tzviya>  ..." potential for confusion with abstract roles
13:11:18 <tzviya> ... I don't find this confusing
13:11:19 <ShaneM> I recommend we remove the text about abstract roles in the spec.   we dont have any
13:12:04 <tzviya> ...Abstract is a distinct publishing term. Words like "summary" don't have the same meaning.
13:12:26 <ShaneM> or include the term 'abstract role' in the included glossary.
13:13:44 <pkra> q+
13:14:01 <pkra> q-
13:14:09 <tzviya> ShaneM: 2 suggestions - remove the prose about abstract roles or put abstract roles in the glossaries
13:14:27 <pkra> +
13:14:28 <pkra> +1
13:14:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1
13:15:02 <tzviya> consensus to remove prose about abstract roles
13:17:04 <ShaneM> q+ to talk about the basic issue of abbreviations as role names
13:17:05 <tzviya> markus: gloss* issues will probably remain in FPWD. These recommend required contexts
13:17:57 <tzviya> ack ShaneM
13:17:57 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to talk about the basic issue of abbreviations as role names
13:18:49 <tzviya> mgarrish: is there a style guide, grammar rules to follow (e.g. no abbreviations, hyphens)?
13:19:16 <tzviya> mgylling: having 1:1 mappings to EPUB would be nice, but we don't want to breach ARIA rules
13:19:41 <MichaelC> q+ to mention present and future ARIA collision
13:20:21 <tzviya> michaelC: no, there are not guidelines for how we name roles
13:20:39 <MichaelC> s/michaelC/ShaneM/
13:21:01 <tzviya> mgylling: we have page-list, and there was an indication that the hyphen should disappear
13:21:45 <tzviya> rich: that isn't an issue
13:22:03 <tzviya> ShaneM: there are currently no abbr in role names
13:22:23 <MichaelC> q+ to mention ARIA will span multiple ¨verticals¨ so we need to be careful about role names
13:22:33 <tzviya> ack MichaelC
13:22:33 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention present and future ARIA collision and to mention ARIA will span multiple ¨verticals¨ so we need to be careful about role names
13:23:02 <tzviya> MichaelC: we don't have guidelines on role naming
13:23:03 <Zakim> -Matt_Garrish
13:23:21 <ShaneM> q+ to point out that the role name rules are specified in the role attribute recommendation
13:23:27 <tzviya> ...we probably should have guidelines about patterns for parsing
13:23:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:24:13 <tzviya> ...and we need to have roles that make sense in naming so that candidate roles makes sense to different people from different domains
13:24:14 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
13:24:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tzviya, pkra, Susann_Keohane, Janina, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Markus, ShaneM, [IPcaller]
13:24:16 <tzviya> q?
13:24:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> Q+
13:24:58 <ShaneM> ack sh
13:24:58 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to point out that the role name rules are specified in the role attribute recommendation
13:25:09 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Markus_Gylling
13:25:09 <Zakim> +Markus_Gylling; got it
13:25:10 <tzviya> michaelC: we should use the ARIA taxonomy to guide us
13:25:19 <tzviya> ack ShaneM
13:25:42 <tzviya> ShaneM: characters allowed is specified
13:25:50 <tzviya> ... in role spec
13:25:52 <ShaneM> w3.org/TR/role-attribute
13:26:10 <tzviya> ack rich
13:26:56 <tzviya> Rich: we agreed not to prefix the DPUB terms, but in the future we might need to for other vocabs
13:27:42 <tzviya> michaelC: creating a virtual ns separated by hyphen is what we expect to do in future unless otherwise negotiated
13:28:01 <tzviya> ...whether other hyphens are allowed is a question
13:28:04 <janina> q+ I think we could hae a rule about first hyphen, then all following don't cunt for namespace
13:28:11 <tzviya> q?
13:28:47 <MichaelC> q+ janina
13:28:52 <ShaneM> are role values case sensitive?
13:28:57 <tzviya> rich: Can we live without the hyphen?
13:29:07 <tzviya> markus: we can go to camelCase
13:29:15 <tzviya> ack Janina
13:30:39 <tzviya> Janina: how much of a problem is hyphen? When ns, couldn't we recognize the first hyphen?
13:30:42 <ShaneM> I note that this is why the Role Recommendation specifies that you can create vocabulary spaces and separate them with a colon.
13:31:00 <tzviya> markus: we drop hyphen, stay all lowercase
13:31:08 <tzviya> janina: what about underscore?
13:31:16 <tzviya> rich: let's not go there
13:31:35 <tzviya> pagelist
13:31:53 <tzviya> acronyms?
13:32:33 <tzviya> acronyms are OK as long as they are well known and meaningful
13:33:12 <ShaneM> FYI role names are case sensitive.
13:33:42 <tzviya> mgarrish: should we expand terms like glossdef to glossarydefinition?
13:34:05 <tzviya> MichaelC: I think we should have a bias toward brevity
13:34:53 <tzviya> Shane: Attribute values are fraught with error
13:35:13 <tzviya> Janina: this argues for shortened form
13:36:13 <tzviya> michaelC: We will stick with the shortened form within reason
13:37:07 <tzviya> Tzviya: as long as the terms are recognizable even to those outside of the community, it's OK
13:38:18 <pkra> q+ about statement role
13:38:38 <tzviya> ack pkra
13:38:44 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
13:38:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-dpub-aria-minutes.html janina
13:40:58 <pkra> create issue where?
13:41:19 <tzviya> rich: do we have a name in tracker for this?
13:41:56 <pkra> +1
13:42:21 <pkra> so here https://github.com/w3c/aria/ ?
13:42:43 <mgylling> scribe: mgylling
13:43:00 <tzviya> ShaneM: just use GitHub for issue tracking
13:44:05 <pkra> q+
13:44:35 <mgylling> rich: name from should be “author” except:
13:44:48 <pkra> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html
13:46:02 <mgylling> rich: …except: biblioentry+link “content and author”,
13:46:56 <mgylling> rich: use ACCNAME-AAM
13:46:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/TR/accname-aam-1.1/
13:47:35 <mgylling> … name from content means: concatenate text nodes of all descendants
13:48:13 <mgylling> … author to do the assigment (labelledBy, title etc) instead in most cases
13:49:26 <mgylling> s/assigment/assignment/
13:50:26 <pkra> q+
13:51:44 <tzviya> scribe: tzviya
13:52:02 <pkra> q-
13:52:28 <tzviya> Rich: We have to look at superclass roles to make sure they are correct
13:53:46 <tzviya> ...example, "cover" superclass is contentInfo
13:54:59 <tzviya> ...Do you want cover to be among the landmarks?
13:55:03 <tzviya> Tzviya: yes
13:55:26 <tzviya> ...would it be helpful to define which elements are landmarks?
13:55:30 <tzviya> Rich: Yes
13:55:40 <tzviya> Rich: required owned elements
13:55:57 <tzviya> ...what are the mandatory descendents?
13:57:04 <tzviya> ...Pullquote has a superclass role of presentation
13:57:31 <tzviya> ShaneM: yes, we really meant that. Pullquotes are visually distinct, but duplicated content
13:57:52 <tzviya> Rich: maybe, it should be "none" instead of "presentation"
13:58:05 <janina> q+ to ask about pull quotes
13:58:24 <tzviya> ack janina
13:58:24 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask about pull quotes
13:59:16 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
13:59:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
13:59:27 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-dpub-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
13:59:33 <Zakim> -Susann_Keohane
13:59:34 <tzviya> Janina: UA might want to access pullquotes
13:59:56 <tzviya> mgylling: perfect question for FPWD
14:00:05 <MichaelC> chair: Tzviya_Siegman
14:00:16 <ShaneM> My meta issue is that it is COMPLETELY UNCLEAR TO ANYONE what roles to use in their documents.
14:00:20 <MichaelC> meeting: Digital Publishing ARIA Task Force
14:00:35 <pkra> tzviya can the issues in the html be moved to the tracker?
14:00:38 <MichaelC> zakim, list attendees
14:00:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, pkra, Susann_Keohane, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina, Markus, Matt_Garish, Matt_Garrish, ShaneM, Markus_Gylling
14:00:42 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-dpub-aria-minutes.html MichaelC
14:00:42 <ShaneM> Shane needs to get the JS support working.  I have a hack to get us to FPWD.
14:00:44 <tzviya> Next steps: DPUB needs to fix a few issues
14:01:02 <tzviya> ...Shane will fix the states, properties
14:01:05 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
14:01:23 <tzviya> Rich: need some help with intro?
14:02:06 <tzviya> janina: guess for FPWD date?
14:02:34 <tzviya> target: Apr 16
14:04:00 <Zakim> -Markus
14:04:00 <Zakim> -ShaneM
14:04:03 <Zakim> -pkra
14:04:04 <Zakim> -Tzviya
14:04:05 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
14:04:05 <Zakim> -Markus_Gylling
14:04:07 <Zakim> -Janina
14:04:07 <Zakim> WAI_ARIA TF(ARIA)9:00AM has ended
14:04:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Tzviya, pkra, Susann_Keohane, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Janina, Markus, Matt_Garish, Matt_Garrish, ShaneM, Markus_Gylling
14:04:11 <mgylling> rrsagent, make minutes
14:04:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-dpub-aria-minutes.html mgylling
16:26:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dpub-aria
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