14:04:51 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
14:04:51 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-irc
14:04:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:04:53 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #w3process
14:04:55 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be Process
14:04:55 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM already started
14:04:56 <trackbot> Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
14:04:56 <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2015
14:05:02 <timeless> Zakim, who is on the call?
14:05:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike_Champion, ??P6, Jeff
14:05:08 <timeless> Zakim, ??p6 is me
14:05:08 <Zakim> +timeless; got it
14:05:16 <SteveZ> SteveZ has joined #w3process
14:06:23 <Zakim> +SteveZ
14:07:06 <SteveZ> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:07:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike_Champion, timeless, Jeff, SteveZ
14:07:56 <timeless> Zakim, mute me
14:07:56 <Zakim> timeless should now be muted
14:08:03 <timeless> scribe: timeless
14:08:09 <timeless> topic: XX
14:08:23 <timeless> s/XX/AC Agenda
14:08:30 <timeless> SteveZ: we've gotten responses from Wayne
14:09:33 <SteveZ> topic: Discuss proposed AC Agenda
14:10:06 <timeless> ... jeff, it looks like you got responses from just about everyone for your proposed agenda for the AC meeting
14:10:16 <timeless> ... my concern is whether there's enough to fill half an hour w/ questions
14:10:24 <timeless> jeff: we don't have to stand there waiting for questions that don't exist
14:10:33 <timeless> ... we can move immediately to the panel if there's reason to do that
14:10:43 <timeless> ... when we did process2014, we didn't know there was interest either
14:10:48 <timeless> ... three hours wasn't enough
14:11:04 <timeless> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2015Mar/0025.html
14:11:30 <timeless> jeff: there's a proposal that SteveZ would spend 15 mins summarizing (@AC meeting)
14:11:41 <timeless> ... chaals and XX would discuss as a panel
14:11:50 <timeless> s/panel/panel (30 mins)/
14:11:55 <timeless> ... and then 45 mins for discussion
14:12:03 <timeless> Zakim, unmute me
14:12:03 <Zakim> timeless should no longer be muted
14:12:06 <jeff> s/XX/Steve/
14:12:18 <timeless> Zakim, mute me
14:12:18 <Zakim> timeless should now be muted
14:12:27 <timeless> chair: SteveZ
14:12:30 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:12:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:12:34 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:12:35 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:12:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:12:39 <jeff> s/discuss as a panel/field Q&A/
14:13:08 <jeff> insert: then they would be joined on a panel with Mike, Wayne, David, and Raman to discuss process2016; with a focus on CGs.
14:13:37 <timeless> topic: List of potential Issues for Process 2016
14:14:11 <SteveZ> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2015Feb/0012.html
14:14:32 <SteveZ> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2015Feb/0012.html
14:15:13 <timeless> s|https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2015Feb/0012.html|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2015Feb/att-0012/Issues-RaisedAndOpen-CurrentlyNotInProcess2015.htm "List of Process Document Issue Not Currently Covered in the Process 2015 Draft being reviewed"|
14:15:17 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:15:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:15:36 <timeless> SteveZ: the main reason for going through this
14:15:47 <timeless> ... jeff raised the issue of, do we really need a process 2016?
14:15:57 <timeless> ... i think the CG issue has somewhat rescued that
14:16:28 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:16:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:16:50 <timeless> ... the main reason i put this on the agendais
14:17:00 <timeless> s/ais/a is/
14:17:12 <timeless> ... the topic of process2016 is on the agenda for the AB meeting next Monday
14:17:26 <timeless> ... i wanted to know if there was anything on this list that people on this call thought we should highlight
14:18:07 <SteveZ> q?
14:18:09 <jeff> q+
14:18:10 <timeless> Zakim, unmute me
14:18:11 <Zakim> timeless should no longer be muted
14:18:25 <timeless> issue-106?
14:18:25 <trackbot> issue-106 -- The graveyard of /TR -- raised
14:18:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/106
14:18:51 <timeless> jeff: the graveyard is partly sitting in the new process for issuing TRs
14:18:55 <timeless> ... but also in issue-152
14:19:11 <timeless> ... it was the ability to update PRs more frequently if you wanted to
14:19:26 <timeless> ... not sure if there's more to do
14:19:29 <timeless> s/jeff/SteveZ/
14:19:33 <timeless> ... but it's worth highlighting
14:19:39 <timeless> Zakim, mute me
14:19:39 <Zakim> timeless should now be muted
14:19:39 <jeff> zakim, mute timeless
14:19:40 <Zakim> timeless should now be muted
14:19:53 <timeless> jeff: on my skepticism for process2016
14:20:06 <timeless> ... i think most of the issues listed there are minutiae
14:20:13 <timeless> ... maybe process geeks care a lot
14:20:20 <timeless> ... some are longstanding issues w/ conflicting views
14:20:25 <timeless> ... i have some degree of skepticism
14:20:39 <timeless> ... every time we do a Rev on the Process document, there's a cost to that
14:20:47 <timeless> ... i'm skeptical that it's worth doing
14:21:07 <timeless> ... i can see having a thoughtful inclusion of CGs into the Process is a candidate to make Process 2016 worthwhlie
14:21:11 <timeless> ... but i think we need a proposal
14:21:19 <timeless> ... i spoke w/ Wayne
14:21:25 <timeless> ... and mike
14:21:34 <timeless> ... there's a notion that a WG could sponsor some CGs
14:21:44 <timeless> ... look after them, bring in the work after an appropriate time
14:21:52 <timeless> ... a great idea, but not obvious that it requires a process change
14:21:58 <timeless> ... there are other proposals that are more substantive
14:22:19 <timeless> ... "if a CG uses OpenStand then it could be streamlined into a W3C Rec"
14:22:32 <timeless> ... that would be interesting, but we'd have to decide what it means
14:22:38 <timeless> ... it'd be helpful if we brainstormed
14:22:43 <timeless> ... but more helpful if someone wrote up a proposal
14:23:11 <timeless> SteveZ: if we did have a central theme, such as CGs, i assume you wouldn't object to fixing the small things that people care about along the way
14:23:15 <timeless> jeff: right
14:23:19 <jeff> Timeless: OpenStand --> https://open-stand.org/
14:23:44 <timeless> s|Timeless: OpenStand --> https://open-stand.org/|-> https://open-stand.org/ OpenStand|
14:24:01 <timeless> SteveZ: we may have fixed the /TR problem, but it's early in the roll out, so too early to tell
14:24:09 <timeless> ... the publish button may have helped
14:24:17 <timeless> ... i know of one case in CSS where it took 3 weeks to publish
14:24:29 <timeless> q+ to ask if this covers graveyard docs beyond the active WGs
14:24:42 <timeless> SteveZ: Mike, do you have any things on your mind to fix?
14:24:45 <jeff> ack je
14:24:47 <timeless> Mike: no, not really
14:25:05 <timeless> ... the fundamental problem is getting people into groups to reach consensus and have IP commitments
14:25:11 <timeless> ... CGs are possibly part of the solution
14:25:20 <timeless> ... but nothing else comes to mind to get to the heart of that
14:25:33 <timeless> SteveZ: the /TR graveyard is ...
14:25:45 <timeless> Mike: I have mixed feelings, the more automatic the process
14:25:54 <timeless> ... no distinction between ED and WD
14:25:59 <timeless> ... spec becomes property of Editor
14:26:03 <timeless> SteveZ: i hear what you're saying
14:26:11 <timeless> ... there's 2 ways in which the ED and the spec can work
14:26:30 <timeless> ... one is, chaals's approach, not putting anything in that the WG hasn't discussed
14:26:40 <timeless> ... the other extreme is putting things in and then getting WG comment
14:26:44 <timeless> ... i understand your concerns
14:26:47 <timeless> ack me
14:26:48 <Zakim> timeless, you wanted to ask if this covers graveyard docs beyond the active WGs
14:27:09 <timeless> ... the second of the two processes definitely has concerns
14:27:22 <timeless> Mike: for agility, you give the Editor a badge and a Whip
14:27:26 <timeless> ... WhatWG way
14:27:39 <timeless> ... do it the traditional way, it doesn't move fast enough
14:27:58 <timeless> SteveZ: jeff highlighted it, key thing is having proposals for discussion, that's what makes things happen
14:28:00 <timeless> Mike: I agree
14:28:13 <timeless> SteveZ: if you have a group where others make proposals
14:28:38 <timeless> issue-128?
14:28:38 <trackbot> issue-128 -- Lack of test cases is a major contributor to schedule delay. -- closed
14:28:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/128
14:29:17 <timeless> SteveZ: we closed 128, it's not a Process task, it's an education task
14:29:27 <timeless> issue-136?
14:29:27 <trackbot> issue-136 -- Does process adequately cater for public input -- raised
14:29:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/136
14:30:48 <jeff> q+
14:30:50 <timeless> SteveZ: the rules we have on Invited Experts is a piece of this
14:31:03 <timeless> ... this needs a review by the group to see if there's a problem to solve, or not
14:31:07 <timeless> Zakim, mute me
14:31:07 <Zakim> timeless should now be muted
14:31:18 <timeless> ack jeff
14:31:29 <timeless> jeff: i can see a number of ways to slice this, not sure what was intended by the raiser
14:31:38 <timeless> ... one is should we open more ways for public input
14:31:50 <timeless> ... the spec oriented proposal which AB reviewed in Feb meeting is a good example of that
14:32:04 <timeless> ... we'll have a further example of that at the AC meeting in Paris in May
14:32:24 <timeless> ... the other side, as we have more public participation, are we doing enough to deal w/ provenance of spec text in the document
14:32:34 <timeless> ... it's a fair issue, not sure if Process CG wants to jump into it
14:32:57 <timeless> SteveZ: the way i'd interpret it is to do an assessment of what the process allows today
14:33:06 <timeless> ... is it adequate both for the Members, and the Public
14:33:42 <timeless> ... i don't propose to close anything today
14:33:47 <timeless> ... but note chaals's comments
14:33:48 <timeless> topic: Wayne Carr's comments on the proposed draft of Process2015
14:34:07 <timeless> s/topic: AC Agenda//
14:34:18 <timeless> s/SteveZ: we've gotten responses from Wayne//
14:34:31 <timeless> SteveZ: i haven't had a chance to completely review his feedback
14:34:38 <timeless> ... some are simple, capitalization mistakes
14:34:42 <timeless> ... others are substantive
14:35:01 <timeless> ... i'm of the opinion that i'm willing to give back the remaining half hour for people to work
14:35:10 <timeless> ... i'm not sure we're ready to discuss anything else in detail
14:35:17 <timeless> ... does anyone else have a topic they'd like to cover?
14:35:38 <timeless> i/opinion/topic: Any Other Business
14:35:40 <timeless> [ None ]
14:35:42 <Zakim> -Mike_Champion
14:35:44 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:35:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:35:44 <Zakim> -Jeff
14:35:49 <timeless> jeff: thanks SteveZ
14:35:52 <timeless> SteveZ: thanks all
14:36:11 <SteveZ> Meeting Adjuorned
14:36:22 <timeless> s/... jeff, it looks like/SteveZ: jeff, it looks like/
14:36:57 <timeless> [ Adjourned ]
14:37:01 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:37:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:37:30 <timeless> s/??P6, //G
14:37:35 <timeless> trackbot, end meeting
14:37:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:37:35 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Champion, Jeff, timeless, SteveZ
14:37:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:37:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html trackbot
14:37:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:37:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
14:38:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
14:38:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-irc
14:38:13 <timeless> s/Meeting Adjuorned//
14:38:19 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:38:25 <timeless> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:38:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-w3process-minutes.html timeless
14:38:28 <timeless> RRSAgent, bye
14:38:28 <RRSAgent> I see no action items