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15:00:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-ldp-irc
15:00:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:00:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
15:00:10 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
15:00:11 <trackbot> Date: 02 March 2015
15:00:23 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
15:00:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:36 <Zakim> +Arnaud
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15:00:45 <CodyBurleson> Zakim, IPcaller is me.
15:00:46 <Zakim> +CodyBurleson; got it
15:00:48 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ldp
15:01:04 <CodyBurleson> Zakim, MiguelAraCo is with me.
15:01:04 <Zakim> +MiguelAraCo; got it
15:01:05 <Zakim> +azaroth
15:01:11 <Zakim> +deiu
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15:01:17 <Zakim> +??P3
15:01:27 <pchampin> zakim, ??P3 is me
15:01:27 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
15:02:15 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
15:04:50 <Zakim> +ericP
15:04:52 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:05:01 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me
15:05:01 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
15:05:44 <CodyBurleson> scribe: CodyBurleson
15:06:04 <Arnaud> Proposal: Approve the minutes of the 23 February teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2015-02-23
15:06:17 <Arnaud> Resolved: Approve the minutes of the 23 February teleconf: http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2015-02-23
15:06:22 <CodyBurleson> Minutes from last week approved (there were no resolutions).
15:07:02 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Not sure if we should meet next week or give it 2 weeks. I wouldn't be against meeting every other week now. Or we can keep meeting per week and have a short call. Thoughts?
15:07:04 <azaroth> prefer every other week
15:07:23 <deiu> two weeks sounds good
15:07:33 <Arnaud> Next meeting: 2015.03.16
15:07:39 <pchampin> sounds good to me as well
15:07:42 <CodyBurleson> Team: Every 2 weeks (three individuals)
15:07:55 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: OK, we meet every 2 weeks for now.
15:07:57 <Zakim> +Roger
15:08:01 <CodyBurleson> Topic: Actions
15:08:22 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:08:22 <CodyBurleson> Closing 152.
15:08:29 <CodyBurleson> 153 is still pending.
15:08:54 <CodyBurleson> Topic: LDP Spec
15:09:27 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
15:09:28 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Congratulations! LDP spec is now a recommendation. But, now that it is rec, what do we do about errata; correcting errors?
15:09:35 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:09:35 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
15:09:37 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
15:09:37 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
15:09:39 <Arnaud> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2015Feb/0015.html
15:09:51 <Zakim> +??P18
15:10:03 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/errata LDP errata
15:10:07 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P18 is me
15:10:07 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
15:10:14 <nmihindu> Zakim, mute me
15:10:14 <Zakim> nmihindu should now be muted
15:10:59 <CodyBurleson> ericP: At the top of the document, we can have a link to errata that says "Please check errata for any omissions and errors"; a separate document - and we can put them in there.
15:11:34 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: Some of the workgroups just use wiki (being lazy)
15:11:57 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: We have a document that points to LDP errata already
15:12:02 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: We can redirect that
15:12:32 <CodyBurleson> ... Actually updating the rec document is very difficult (not worth it)
15:14:10 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: That answers my question from a process point of view. Once the Rec is published, the burden is very high to make changes. Does everyone agree? We did not remove the reference to the ATF draft. I don't think it would confuse anyone, but I think we should add a note to errata to forget that reference.
15:14:32 <CodyBurleson> ... Everyone agree with use of a wiki?
15:14:51 <CodyBurleson> SteveS: I hate wiki syntax. Easier to use ResPec and HTMl and commit/push
15:15:00 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
15:15:27 <TallTed> for errata, and given these may not always involve existing editors, I think wiki will be better
15:15:35 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: The team is interested in the wiki so that when working group isn't active, there is a domain that W3C staff can edit
15:15:44 <CodyBurleson> ericP: More people can edit in the wiki
15:16:14 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: We're talking about errata only. That could still be in GitHub or something, but it's just a plain text.
15:17:28 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Reference "[Accept-Post]J. Arwe; S. Speicher; E. Wilde. The Accept-Post HTTP Header. Internet Draft. URL: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wilde-accept-post" shouldn't be there - remove
15:17:35 <ericP> +1
15:17:37 <SteveS> +1
15:17:42 <roger> +1
15:17:42 <TallTed> +1
15:17:42 <nmihindu> +1
15:17:47 <CodyBurleson> +1
15:17:54 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Reference "[Accept-Post]J. Arwe; S. Speicher; E. Wilde. The Accept-Post HTTP Header. Internet Draft. URL: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wilde-accept-post" shouldn't be there - remove
15:18:18 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Eric, can you get the wiki redirect thingy done?
15:18:33 <CodyBurleson> ericP: Steve, somebody needs to create the wiki page.
15:18:57 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/RDF1.1_Errata Turtle errata
15:19:22 <CodyBurleson> ericP: I'll actually just go ahead and do this.
15:20:27 <CodyBurleson> ... 2015 feb 0015 - I'll take an action on that.
15:20:38 <CodyBurleson> Topic: Paging
15:21:29 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Any progress? Anyone? The time is going by and I am less and less convinced that we will ever meet the exit criteria. This spec may end up becoming a working group note. We still have time; we don't have to pull the plug quite yet.
15:22:35 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: If we were to alter the spec and add in more client-side controls, would that help adoption?
15:23:00 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Good question. I would even broden it and ask, "Are there any changes to the spec that would make it more appealing?"
15:23:25 <CodyBurleson> ... What you are saying is that adding more client control would make it more attractive to you (Oracle).
15:23:38 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: Indeed.
15:24:42 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:24:42 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
15:25:22 <CodyBurleson> Topic: LD Patch
15:25:39 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Andrew, I understand you sent it out for publications?
15:26:02 <CodyBurleson> ericP: We have a transition request to CR already?
15:26:10 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
15:26:10 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
15:26:29 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: From Phillipe on behalf of the director.
15:26:45 <TallTed> TallTed: the trouble with Paging is that the simple solution (what we have) doesn't really give you much, and the complex solution *is* complex, so takes much more than we've got
15:27:14 <CodyBurleson> Andrew: I guess that frees you from Action 153; I think it's done.
15:27:24 <CodyBurleson> ... Close Action 153.
15:27:31 <deiu> s/Andrew/Andrei/g
15:27:39 <CodyBurleson> ... Now we can assume we are in CR. We need to get the implementations cranking.
15:27:54 <CodyBurleson> ... How many do we expect?
15:28:04 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Heard 3. Anyone else?
15:28:35 <azaroth> Stanford/Fedora are looking at it, it's on the roadmap, but not a priority
15:28:45 <CodyBurleson> SteveS: IBM is implementing it
15:29:14 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: What's the status of the test suite? Do we need to do more work there?
15:29:30 <CodyBurleson> zakim, who is talking?
15:29:30 <Zakim> I am sorry, CodyBurleson; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
15:29:53 <CodyBurleson> pchampin: I am actually working on that.
15:30:15 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Sounds like things are in good shape on this.
15:30:20 <CodyBurleson> Topic: LDP Primer
15:30:55 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: I realized that the Primer is currently published as a draft. Should we just republish as a Working Group Note?
15:31:15 <nmihindu> +1 for republishing it as a final note.
15:31:24 <SteveS> do it
15:31:33 <pchampin> +1
15:31:35 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: publish LDP Primer as a WG Note
15:31:38 <CodyBurleson> ... We published it as a first Public Working Draft. Does everyone agree that we publish it as a Note?
15:31:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-ldp-minutes.html ericP
15:32:01 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: We should scan it again with fresh eyes. Don't know if anyone is interested.
15:32:24 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Valid point; unless someone is really willing to put the effort in.
15:32:47 <CodyBurleson> SteveS: I might be able to find someone, - so it will be REALLY fresh eyes. Someone new.
15:33:01 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: I know some people like that too; I will ask someone too.
15:33:23 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: OK, so we will not rush to republish as-is. Let's give a couple of weeks to review again.
15:33:46 <CodyBurleson> Topic: Workshop / Meeting
15:34:16 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: There has been some email on the list with the Working Group Annotation people.
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15:35:35 <CodyBurleson> ... some say we're too late. Some say, let's do it. Some say, let's just not call it a workshop. There are some costs associated; who will cover? So...
15:36:10 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: We require somebody to tell us what is the cost and after that, figure out if we can go with that. So that's what we are waiting on now.
15:36:33 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: The longer it takes to get these questions answered, the worse it gets from an announcement point of view.
15:36:43 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud, Can you help us with this issue, Rob?
15:36:55 <CodyBurleson> s/Arnaud/Ashok
15:37:27 <ericP> SteveS, does https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Errata look good?
15:37:32 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: I think people can buy their own lunch.
15:37:51 <SteveS> ericP, it looks *good* for a wiki page
15:38:00 <ericP> nice!
15:38:03 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: Well maybe you can get me close for both with/without lunch?
15:38:23 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Maybe we should have a wiki page asking whether people are planning to attend or not.
15:38:54 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: The bigger question is how many outsiders? That's the real goal. How do we advertise and generate the interest?
15:39:45 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: Once we have agreement on that; I can create a wiki page with outline and such.
15:40:03 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: I think you should start with that. Say, "This is what we're intendeing to do..."
15:40:09 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: OK, I can do that.
15:40:42 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: I could use some help for someone to add the location details, Where it's going to be and such.
15:41:14 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Rob, I assume this is already noted by the Annotations working group. Can you find a pointer to that?
15:41:59 <CodyBurleson> Topic: Open
15:42:26 <azaroth> conference at the same place is: http://iannotate.org/2015/
15:42:39 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: Idea. Some of us are working on a query verb proposal.
15:43:50 <CodyBurleson> ... It's worth thinking about that the original version I had written up included paging. It may be worth thinking about integrating Paging and HTTP Query verb and creating something new around that.
15:44:00 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Henry was also interested in that.
15:44:28 <azaroth> And we have a ... very incomplete ... F2F page: https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Meetings/f2f/SF_Q1_2015 :(
15:44:53 <CodyBurleson> ... Jim Snell has been pulled in other projects; I would be cautious on what you can expect from him.
15:45:05 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: He said last week that he could help.
15:45:32 <CodyBurleson> ... We should think about whether or not to include paging inquery.
15:45:43 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Would the Query verb make paging more interesting?
15:45:56 <CodyBurleson> Ashok: Yes. And would Paging make Query verb more interesting.
15:46:38 <CodyBurleson> Sandro: The query verb is for efficiency and technical elegance. We can totally prototype without it and to me, that seems like the thing to do.
15:47:03 <deiu> Almost all JSON APIs use one form of query or another, these days. They all do it through POST/GET though.
15:47:39 <Ashok> The POST is often repurposed for Query
15:47:53 <Ashok> s/The/Yes/
15:48:16 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: POST is the wildcard verb in HTTP land that everything else doesn't fit into. It is used both to update and to retrieve. The rationalization for QUERY verb is to make it very explicit that it is JUST for retrieval and not modification of data.
15:48:37 <CodyBurleson> ... If I cared to push this further, I would tsart by talking to Mark Nottingham.
15:49:00 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp/errata and http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/REC-ldp-20150226/errata redirect to https://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Errata which has the erratum for "Superfluous normative reference"
15:49:27 <deiu> +1 to ignore :)
15:49:57 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: I'm not very motivated to try to push this uphill.
15:51:05 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: OK, thanks for the reminder that this is going on Ashok.
15:51:38 <CodyBurleson> ericP: I've done the wiki page and setup the redirect already (on the errata). I made the wiki and setup redirects from the dated and non-0dated errata links.
15:51:52 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: You can be very efficient at times. Well done.
15:51:52 <deiu> ericP: link?
15:52:36 <Zakim> -SteveS
15:52:38 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
15:52:41 <Zakim> -nmihindu
15:52:42 <Zakim> -azaroth
15:52:42 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:52:43 <Zakim> -TallTed
15:52:44 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:52:46 <Zakim> -deiu
15:52:47 <Zakim> -Roger
15:52:48 <Zakim> -ericP
15:52:50 <CodyBurleson> Arnaud: Thank you guys. Ashok, get on that meeting thing. Meeting adjourned.
15:52:56 <Zakim> -CodyBurleson
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16:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, pchampin, in SW_LDP()10:00AM
16:35:02 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
16:35:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, CodyBurleson, MiguelAraCo, azaroth, deiu, pchampin, Ashok_Malhotra, ericP, SteveS, Roger, Sandro, TallTed, nmihindu
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