15:47:13 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:47:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/26-html-a11y-irc
15:47:29 zakim, this will be 2119
15:47:29 ok, LJWatson; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 47 minutes ago
15:49:57 agenda+ agenda additions or changes? (Up to xx:05) HTML F2F meeting?
15:50:08 agenda+ longdesc?
15:50:19 agenda+ workplan CfC http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
15:51:12 agenda+ after5 http://darobin.github.io/after5/html-plan.html
15:51:25 agenda+ Action items
15:51:42 agenda+ Date Pickers
15:51:49 agenda+ Transcripts
15:51:58 Chair: Chaals
15:52:12 Meeting: HTML A11y TF meeting
15:52:23 rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:52:38 zakim, agenda?
15:52:38 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
15:52:40 1. agenda additions or changes? (Up to xx:05) HTML F2F meeting? [from LJWatson]
15:52:40 2. longdesc? [from LJWatson]
15:52:40 3. workplan CfC http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force [from LJWatson]
15:52:40 4. after5 http://darobin.github.io/after5/html-plan.html [from LJWatson]
15:52:40 5. Action items [from LJWatson]
15:52:41 6. Date Pickers [from LJWatson]
15:52:41 7. Transcripts [from LJWatson]
15:54:14 janina has joined #html-a11y
15:59:20 plh has joined #html-a11y
15:59:26 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:00:37 JF has joined #html-a11y
16:00:50 chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:01:02 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
16:01:12 +[IPcaller]
16:01:16 +JF
16:01:21 -Guest P9 2119
16:01:25 trackbot, start meeting
16:01:27 RRSAgent, make logs world
16:01:29 Zakim, this will be 2119
16:01:30 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:01:30 Date: 26 February 2015
16:01:31 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
16:01:46 chair: Chaals
16:01:47 agenda+ agenda additions or changes? (Up to xx:05)
16:01:47 agenda+ HTML F2F meeting?
16:01:47 agenda+ longdesc?
16:01:47 agenda+ workplan CfC http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force / HTML after5 http://darobin.github.io/after5/html-plan.html
16:01:47 agenda+ Action items https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:01:47 agenda+ Date Pickers https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Datepickers
16:01:48 agenda+ Transcripts https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Full_Transcript
16:02:00 zakim, close agenda 1-7
16:02:01 I don't understand 'close agenda 1-7', chaals
16:03:08 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:08 I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has restarted
16:03:09 On the phone I see [IPcaller], JF, Joshue
16:03:09 zakim, drop item 8
16:03:09 agendum 8, agenda additions or changes? (Up to xx:05), dropped
16:03:15 zakim, drop item 9
16:03:17 agendum 9, HTML F2F meeting?, dropped
16:03:21 zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:03:22 zakim, [ip is me
16:03:26 +LJWatson; got it
16:03:26 sorry, chaals, I do not recognize a party named '[ip'
16:03:29 +Joanmarie_Diggs
16:03:37 zakim, who is here
16:03:40 chaals, you need to end that query with '?'
16:03:42 zakim, who is here?
16:03:42 On the phone I see LJWatson, JF, Joshue, Joanmarie_Diggs
16:03:44 On IRC I see chaals, JF, richardschwerdtfeger, plh, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, LJWatson, IanPouncey, Joshue, newtron, joanie, liam, MarkS, sivoais, cabanier, trackbot
16:04:01 +Plh
16:04:27 +Liam
16:04:39 +??P5
16:04:44 zakim, ??P5 is me
16:04:44 +janina; got it
16:04:55 zakim, drop item 9
16:04:55 agendum 9, HTML F2F meeting?, dropped
16:04:59 zakim, drop item 10
16:04:59 agendum 10, longdesc?, dropped
16:05:04 zakim, drop item 11
16:05:04 agendum 11, workplan CfC http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force / HTML after5 http://darobin.github.io/after5/html-plan.html, dropped
16:05:10 zakim, drop item 12
16:05:10 agendum 12, Action items https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open, dropped
16:05:12 agenda?
16:05:24 zakim, drop item 13
16:05:24 agendum 13, Date Pickers https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Datepickers, dropped
16:05:24 scribenick: LJWatson
16:05:25 ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
16:05:37 zakim, drop item 14
16:05:37 agendum 14, Transcripts https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/Full_Transcript, dropped
16:05:40 zakim, take up item 1
16:05:40 agendum 1. "agenda additions or changes? (Up to xx:05) HTML F2F meeting?" taken up [from LJWatson]
16:05:43 agenda+ HTML meeting?
16:06:09 agenda+ next meeting
16:06:19 +[IPcaller]
16:06:24 JS: Note the US time change at the start of March.
16:06:35 zakim, [ip is IanP
16:06:35 +IanP; got it
16:06:37 Zakim, IPcaller is me
16:06:37 sorry, IanPouncey, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
16:06:40 +Judy
16:06:49 zakim, take up item 16
16:06:51 agendum 16. "next meeting" taken up [from chaals]
16:06:58 zakim, code?
16:06:58 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ShaneM
16:07:05 JS: Next week is CSUN.
16:07:23 CMN: Several TF people will be there. Do we meet next week?
16:07:35 +ShaneM
16:07:46 JB: Do we have critical items to do next week?
16:08:02 Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:08:36 CMN: How many people at CSUN would not be able to attend?
16:08:57 LW: No couldn't.
16:09:12 CMN: Suggest cancelling meeting, unless it turns out to be urgent.
16:09:35 RESOLUTION: No meeting expected next week. Note for non-US residents, time will change the week after for most.
16:09:38 rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:09:44 zakim, take up item 15
16:09:44 agendum 15. "HTML meeting?" taken up [from chaals]
16:11:24 PLH: It is still uncertain whether the whole WG will meet. But two of the task forces will.
16:11:46 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:11:59 PLH: The media and editing TFs.
16:12:08 PLH: A full WG meeting may happen later.
16:12:43 I cannot make that meeting
16:12:45 [me]
16:12:46 CMN: If this TF wants to meet, we should let the chairs know?
16:12:50 PLH: Yes soon.
16:12:55 CMN: Who on the call could attend?
16:12:59 LW: Yes.
16:13:03 LQ: no
16:13:10 LQ: No
16:13:43 JF: If we reach critical mass, yes.
16:14:05 rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:14:30 CMN: Propose we request a meeting there. Call for agenda items.
16:14:51 CMN: If sufficient people can make it we'll go ahead.
16:15:04 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:15:26 ACTION: CHaals to call for consensus on whether to meet with the other HTML task forces in Redmond, 15-16 april
16:15:26 Created ACTION-309 - Call for consensus on whether to meet with the other html task forces in redmond, 15-16 april [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-03-05].
16:15:31 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:16:05 RS: Couldn't make it.
16:16:19 RESOLUTION: We will call for consensus and see if we get critical mass (and a useful agenda), on attending the F2F meeting in Redmond 15-16 April
16:16:24 agenda?
16:16:36 zakim, close item 1
16:16:36 agendum 1, agenda additions or changes? (Up to xx:05) HTML F2F meeting?, closed
16:16:39 I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:16:39 2. longdesc? [from LJWatson]
16:16:44 zakim, take up item 2
16:16:44 agendum 2. "longdesc?" taken up [from LJWatson]
16:16:53 JB: There will be news.
16:17:32 zakim, take up item 3
16:17:32 agendum 3. "workplan CfC http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force" taken up [from LJWatson]
16:17:49 CMN: CFC is out. Believe most people have responded.
16:18:07 CMN: Contentious pieces are the Alt doc, and the ARIA stuff.
16:18:27 CMN: Does anyone have thoughts on the ARIA stuff, or wait for the CFC outcome?
16:18:31 RS: ARIA stuff?
16:18:57 CMN: I'm only happy with the TF having ARIA deliverables if the work is done only in TF, not PF and TF.
16:19:31 CMN: Don't want them done in three groups. If PF wants to shift the work here, or HTML likewise, it seems reasonable.
16:19:53 CMN: Given that we haven't previously done the work, including this TF doesn't seem sensible.
16:20:05 RS: The same people work on it, so it doesn't really matter where we put it.
16:20:19 CMN: Yes.
16:20:46 JS: I'm seriously opposed to creating two classes of work activity between PF and HTML.
16:21:05 +
16:21:08 q+
16:21:14 CMN: In principle I agree, in practice the ARIA/HTML mappings doc has been done outside of this TF without problem.
16:21:23 JS: Don't think that's a correct reflection of the history.
16:21:34 JS: Paul was strongly opposed of moving it out of the TF.
16:21:42 ack ju
16:21:45 q?
16:21:59 s/was strongly opposed of moving /was strongly opposed to moving /
16:22:07 q+
16:22:38 JB: I see no harm in tracking it in the TF.
16:22:47 rrsagent, make minutes
16:22:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:22:51 +1 to tracking
16:22:53 ack me
16:23:14 CMN: Agree we should track. We track all HTML, so anything done there is tracked here.
16:23:35 JS: It's a joint deliverable between PF and HTML.
16:23:37 q+
16:23:54 ack ju
16:24:01 CMN: Happy to list it as a thing we track.
16:24:11 JB: Suggest we take this offline to the co-ordination call.
16:24:20 CMN: Agreed.
16:24:33 RESOLUTION: TF coordinators to work out what to do about ARIA HTML mappings.
16:24:48 was strongly opposed of moving 4
16:24:54 zakim, take up item 4
16:24:54 agendum 4. "after5 http://darobin.github.io/after5/html-plan.html" taken up [from LJWatson]
16:25:15 CMN: Hope everyone has read it.
16:25:25 CMN: Questions? Concerns?
16:25:35 q+
16:26:07 JB: Note earlier concerns, and understand Robin has made changes - but have not had time to review.
16:28:15 ack ju
16:28:18 q+
16:28:33 JB: Bug handling, ability for TF to continue instead of CG, and the status of deliverables being considered on recc track from CGs.
16:28:55 JB: Also mechanisms for cross-review including accessibility.
16:29:19 q+
16:29:24 ack meack ri
16:29:28 ack ri
16:29:38 a/ack meack ri/
16:29:44 s/time to review/time to review the very latest/
16:29:49 q+
16:29:57 RS: Intent is to be open and allow more people to participate. What is the job of the HTML WG then?
16:30:01 ack ju
16:30:57 JB: My understanding is that they're not under W3C process, which can be useful for incubating ideas, but the absence of process can be difficult as things become more formalised.
16:31:12 rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:12 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:31:16 q+ To support Judy's concerns and suggest that I coordinate with Robin to see whether these are going into the plan, and ask him (or other HTML team) to attend another TF meeting
16:31:34 JB: Robin has been proactive in responding to these concerns.
16:32:28 JB: The deliverable from a CG is known as a "final report" or "final specification" which can be confusing.
16:33:02 JB: I'd heard the aim was to get more focused involvement, not wider participation.
16:33:57 q?
16:34:07 ack me
16:34:07 chaals, you wanted to support Judy's concerns and suggest that I coordinate with Robin to see whether these are going into the plan, and ask him (or other HTML team) to attend
16:34:07 RS: If all the HTML wg does is push out a spec that's not interesting to me.
16:34:10 ... another TF meeting
16:34:31 CMN: TFs or CGs are likely to be the places where things happen, not the WG.
16:34:45 q+
16:34:57 ack pl
16:34:57 CMN: I support Judy's concerns. Suggest I co-ordinate with Robin, check the status, and ask him to attend another meeting.
16:35:05 q+
16:35:17 PLH: Encourage you to invite Robin to another meeting.
16:35:25 ack ju
16:35:27 q+
16:35:38 q+
16:35:43 q- later
16:36:22 JB: Robin is trying to address all these concerns. We should give him help to get the words clear enough in the plan.
16:36:39 q- later
16:37:06 ack ri
16:37:08 JB: Giving specific feedback would be useful.
16:37:52 q+ to say coming back with a proposal for a CR requires a transition approval from the director, so I expect W3C to take that seriously (and believe Robin does too)
16:37:54 RS: Going to a CG is a bit "wild west". The issue is that the groups don't want to address accessibility. Don't want any CG to create something that hasn't addressed accessibility from the beginning.
16:37:57 q+
16:38:12 ack li
16:38:12 liam, you wanted to note a CG doesn't get a W3C team content either, for what it's worth, so not clear on future coordination
16:38:20 RS: Needs to be something in the CG process to stop accessibility being forgotten.
16:38:31 q+ to speak to Rich's point wrt conversations w Robin so far
16:38:33 q- later
16:38:48 s/team content/team contact/
16:38:51 LQ: CGs do not have a W3C team contact.
16:38:55 ack ju
16:38:55 Judy, you wanted to speak to Rich's point wrt conversations w Robin so far
16:39:38 JB: Robin, Philippe and I have discussed this. The concern has been acknowledged and solutions are being explored.
16:40:13 +[IPcaller]
16:40:20 JB: We hope the Web Technology Accessibility Guidelines will be useful.
16:40:55 SteveF has joined #html-a11y
16:40:59 JB: Also requiring the CGs to conduct reviews and rough determination that accessiblity had been considered, before bringing a deliverable to the HTML WG.
16:41:46 q?
16:42:03 q+
16:42:30 ack me
16:42:30 chaals, you wanted to say coming back with a proposal for a CR requires a transition approval from the director, so I expect W3C to take that seriously (and believe Robin does too)
16:42:42 +JF.a
16:44:03 CMN: We would expect the CG to be able to demonstrate how accessibility had been considered, as part of requesting a document transition. Suggest we close this with me co-ordinating with Robin.
16:44:29 rrsagent, make minutes
16:44:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/26-html-a11y-minutes.html LJWatson
16:44:58 [Judy: Robin has said that he is updating it real-time as he gets suggestions, but agree that the plan to follow up to confirm all suggestions are taken in, are great.]
16:45:04 RS: Someone should have responsibility in each CG for accessibility.
16:45:08 Q+
16:45:52 q+
16:46:21 RS: At IBM we have a review board. We sometimes help product teams work on accessibility, and PF is moving towards this architecture model where we can do deep dives to help groups move forward
16:46:26