IRC log of ua on 2015-02-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:02:25 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-irc
18:02:27 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
18:02:27 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
18:02:29 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
18:02:29 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
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Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
18:02:30 [trackbot]
Date: 19 February 2015
18:02:43 [Jan]
zakim, code?
18:02:43 [Zakim]
the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
18:02:52 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
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+Jeanne
18:03:16 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
18:03:30 [Jan]
zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
18:03:30 [Zakim]
+Jan; got it
18:03:46 [allanj]
allanj has joined #ua
18:04:18 [allanj]
rrsagent, set logs public
18:04:26 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
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+Kim_Patch
18:05:00 [allanj]
regrets: greg
18:05:05 [allanj]
chair: Jim Allan
18:05:11 [allanj]
scribe: allanj
18:07:25 [allanj]
Agenda+ Publish
18:07:26 [allanj]
Agenda+ Exit Criteria https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0036.html
18:07:28 [allanj]
Agenda+ implementations
18:08:50 [Kim]
Kim has joined #ua
18:09:46 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minues
18:09:46 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minues', allanj. Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:09:52 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:09:52 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:17:40 [allanj]
open item 1
18:18:04 [allanj]
topic: Publishing
18:22:46 [allanj]
js: after house keeping, publish week of Mar 16, with 3 weeks for comments
18:23:18 [allanj]
close item 1
18:23:29 [allanj]
open item 2
18:23:42 [allanj]
Topic: Exit Criteria
18:23:54 [allanj]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0036.html
18:26:27 [allanj]
current wording:
18:26:47 [allanj]
1. Define test cases: Complete a set of tests needed to cover all UAAG normative success criteria.
18:27:19 [allanj]
perhaps update instead of complete
18:27:35 [allanj]
2. Test Implementations: Perform these tests and verify independent results on user agents, and to the extent needed, combinations of users agents and extensions.
18:29:16 [allanj]
missing coverage...at least 2 implementations
18:29:27 [jeanne]
2. Test Implementations: Perform these tests and verify at least two independent results on user agents, and to the extent needed, combinations of users agents and extensions.
18:33:09 [allanj]
discussion of extensions. need to add informative bit about free, updated, accessible installer etc.
18:33:58 [allanj]
Note on Independent Implementations:
18:33:59 [allanj]
a) Success criteria that rely solely on the rendering engine of the user agent (e.g. x.x.x) will need implementations of two different rendering engines.
18:38:22 [allanj]
added examples
18:38:29 [allanj]
b) Success criteria that rely solely with the user agent user interface (e.g. x.x.x) may have implementations using the same rendering engine.
18:40:47 [jeanne]
b) Success criteria that rely on the user agent user interface
18:40:47 [jeanne]
(e.g. x.x.x) may have implementations using the same rendering engine.
18:42:49 [allanj]
jr: overarching principle. any feature need 2 implementations (UI) and 2 resultant rendering implementations
18:43:17 [jeanne]
Implementations features that satisfy a specific success criteria (plugins, extensions or user agents) must be from different code bases in order to be considered independent.
18:46:36 [allanj]
if you have chrome and opera (2 different UIs), they both use Blink rendering engine
18:46:57 [allanj]
the test is to see if they allow the user to set something (a UI)
18:47:09 [allanj]
we assume that it will be rendered appropriately
18:48:44 [allanj]
the setting will be rendered appropriately
18:48:54 [allanj]
we will still need to verify the rendering
18:49:07 [Jan]
The goal is to have independent implementations for each success criteria, while taking into account that other software components (that are not connected to the success criteria being tested), may be shared.
18:49:35 [allanj]
example: 1.8.3 Provide Viewport Scrollbars:
18:49:37 [allanj]
When the rendered content extends beyond the viewport dimensions, users can have graphical viewports include scrollbars, overriding any values specified by the author. (Level A)
18:50:03 [allanj]
1.4.1 Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally):
18:50:20 [allanj]
1.4.2 Text Size, Color and Font (by Element):
18:52:05 [jeanne]
b) Success criteria that rely on the user agent user interface
18:52:05 [jeanne]
(e.g. 1.4.1, 1.4.2) may have implementations using the same rendering engine. In the 1.4.1 where the user can set a preference for a default font size, the independent implementations are the user interface where the preference can be set. The rendering can share a code base, since that is not what is being tested in the success criteria.
18:52:11 [Jan]
The goal is to have independent implementations for each success criteria, while taking into account that other software components (that are not connected to the success criteria being tested), may be shared.
18:52:12 [Jan]
For example:
18:52:14 [Jan]
- Success criteria that are implemented at the rendering engine level must be demonstrated by browsers that use different rendering engines.
18:52:15 [Jan]
- Success criteria that are not implemented at the rendering engine level can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine.
18:53:24 [allanj]
- Success criteria that are not implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine.
18:53:38 [allanj]
- Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine.
18:54:14 [Jan]
The goal is to have independent implementations for each success criteria, while taking into account that other software components (that are not connected to the success criteria being tested), may be shared.
18:54:15 [Jan]
For example:
18:54:17 [Jan]
- Success criteria that are implemented at the rendering engine level must be demonstrated by browsers that use different rendering engines.
18:54:18 [Jan]
- Success criteria that are not implemented at the rendering engine level can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine.
18:54:20 [Jan]
- Success criteria that are implemented by extensions can be demonstrated by two independent extensions to the same user agent.
18:55:19 [allanj]
suggested replacement for #2 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine.
18:55:46 [Jan]
- Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine.
18:56:43 [allanj]
suggested replacement for #2 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (set by the user) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine.
18:57:06 [allanj]
suggested replacement for #2 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (set by the user) the results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine..
18:58:25 [jeanne]
Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (set by the user) can demonstrate the results with browsers that share a common rendering engine.
19:00:03 [Jan]
For success criteria that are implemented at the user interface level (set by the user), independent results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine.
19:01:50 [Jan]
For success criteria that are only implemented at the user interface level (e.g. x.y.z), independent results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine.
19:02:32 [allanj]
1.8.3 Provide Viewport Scrollbars:
19:03:44 [allanj]
1.8.13 Allow Same User Interface:
19:07:28 [allanj]
- Success criteria that are implemented at the rendering engine level must be demonstrated by browsers that use different rendering engines.
19:07:29 [allanj]
- For success criteria that are only implemented at the user interface level (e.g. something set by a user), independent results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine.
19:07:31 [allanj]
- Success criteria that are implemented by extensions can be demonstrated by two independent extensions to the same user agent.
19:07:59 [allanj]
chrome and opera cannot both be used for what
19:08:30 [allanj]
js: maintain point of regard, indicate unrendered content
19:09:31 [allanj]
jr: how big is this issue?
19:10:03 [allanj]
js: html had to have different rendering engines
19:10:11 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-wai-aria-20110118/
19:11:41 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/1.0/CR/implementation-report
19:12:28 [Jan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/1.0/CR/implementation-report#test_results
19:20:24 [allanj]
blink is used in Chrome starting at version 28,[6][7] Opera (15+),[6] Amazon Silk and other Chromium based browsers as well as Android's (4.4+) WebView and Qt's WebEngine.
19:22:03 [allanj]
web browsers using Gecko include Airfox, Waterfox, K-Meleon, Lunascape, Pale Moon, Portable Firefox, Conkeror, Classilla, TenFourFox, HP Secure Web Browser, Oxygen and Sylera (for mobile).
19:24:32 [allanj]
browsers using Trident IE, AOL, Avant, Nintendo, QQ, etc.
19:27:24 [allanj]
webkit browsers. Dolphin, Safari, iCab, webOS
19:29:55 [allanj]
if we choose 4 rendering engines and 4 UIs are we covered
19:31:13 [allanj]
how do we tell which SC are in the UI and which are in the rendering engine
19:32:36 [jeanne]
http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20-Reference/
19:32:54 [jeanne]
JR suggests listing the few SC that must have two separate rendering engines
19:33:34 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:33:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj
19:34:10 [allanj]
d) Implementations (plugins, extensions or user agents) must be from different code bases in order to be considered independent.
19:34:56 [allanj]
kp: 2 separate plugins for same UA doesnt work?
19:37:02 [allanj]
continue with d) Implementations (plugins, extensions or user agents) must be from different code bases in order to be considered independent. finalize the exit criteria
19:37:12 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
19:37:14 [Zakim]
-Kim_Patch
19:37:18 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:37:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj
19:37:23 [allanj]
zakim, please part
19:37:23 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch
19:37:23 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
19:37:28 [allanj]
rrsagent, make minutes
19:37:28 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj
19:37:54 [allanj]
rrsagent, please part
19:37:54 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items