17:00:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #socialig
17:00:25 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/18-socialig-irc
17:00:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs ab
17:00:29 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 76244
17:00:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM scheduled to start now
17:00:30 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference
17:00:30 <trackbot> Date: 18 February 2015
17:00:36 <harry> Zakim, code?
17:00:36 <Zakim> the conference code is 76244 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), harry
17:00:48 <harry> chair: harry
17:00:54 <Zakim> T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM has now started
17:01:01 <Zakim> +??P27
17:01:05 <Zakim> +AdamB
17:01:43 <Zakim> +??P3
17:02:01 <Zakim> +hhalpin
17:02:04 <dahacouk> Zakim, ??P3 is me
17:02:04 <Zakim> +dahacouk; got it
17:02:34 <AdamB> q+
17:02:44 <elf-pavlik> chair: harry
17:02:51 <elf-pavlik> scribenick: elf-pavlik
17:02:54 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:03:11 <elf-pavlik> harry: AdamB do you see Boeing represented in User Stories?
17:03:39 <elf-pavlik> AdamB: we have a lot of use cases there, many discussions went around silo/decentralized mostly from bblfish
17:03:54 <EdK> EdK has joined #socialIG
17:04:10 <elf-pavlik> harry: I want to make sure that people who have product in that space have their needs represented
17:04:26 <Zakim> + +1.313.594.aaaa
17:04:29 <elf-pavlik> AdamB: I can appreciate tantek's push to itereate fast
17:04:43 <EdK> yes that's me
17:04:48 <elf-pavlik> harry: now W3C proces moves towards more agile approach
17:05:23 <elf-pavlik> harry: in the end we keep the old approach where we finalize the test suite etc.
17:05:33 <elf-pavlik> ... i think Social will use this more agile approach
17:05:38 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:05:40 <elf-pavlik> ack AdamB
17:05:43 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:06:03 <elf-pavlik> ... i hope that once we get those stories voted on we can clarify requirements
17:06:24 <elf-pavlik> ... from your perspective, you already have an API and do that stuff
17:06:38 <elf-pavlik> ... useful to scrate this API / Protocol out and put it on the wiki
17:06:51 <elf-pavlik> AdamB: we can pull some of that out
17:07:06 <harry> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:07:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see elf-pavlik (muted), AdamB, dahacouk, hhalpin, EdK
17:07:08 <elf-pavlik> ... from our perspective vs. IBM perspective we don't want to sell our software
17:07:19 <elf-pavlik> ... we want to use our product internaly
17:07:43 <elf-pavlik> present: elf-pavlik, AdamB, dahacouk, hhalpin, EdK
17:07:51 <harry> q?
17:07:52 <elf-pavlik> agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-02-18
17:07:55 <dahacouk> q+
17:08:21 <AdamB> +1 on minutes
17:08:23 <harry> PROPOSED: Approve minutes: http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-minutes.html
17:08:28 <elf-pavlik> _1
17:08:30 <elf-pavlik> +1
17:08:35 <harry> RESOLVED: Minutes approved:  http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-minutes.html
17:08:48 <elf-pavlik> topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues
17:09:07 <harry> http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions
17:09:18 <dahacouk> I am
17:09:32 <dahacouk> not sure why I'm not being heard
17:09:34 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk, we can't hear you
17:09:51 <harry> You are muted locally dahacouk
17:10:17 <dahacouk> I'm going to redial
17:10:23 <Zakim> -dahacouk
17:10:41 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik: can everyone from IG can do +1 / 0 / -1
17:11:02 <elf-pavlik> harry: people sholdn't edit WG wiki
17:11:05 <AdamB> you have to be a member of the wg to edit the wiki is my understanding
17:11:36 <elf-pavlik> harry: we will need to become more tighter on WG only for implementers
17:11:59 <Zakim> +??P0
17:12:04 <dahacouk> Zakim, ??P0 is me
17:12:04 <Zakim> +dahacouk; got it
17:12:15 <elf-pavlik> scribenick: AdamB
17:12:35 <AdamB> elf-pavlik: added point about mapping user stories to vocab terms
17:12:46 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Sicialig/Vocabulary_TF/Mapping_API_User_Stories_to_Vocabulary_terms
17:12:58 <AdamB> ... started simple way by mapping user stories, think in IG we can continue on that
17:13:00 <harry> Just to be clear, you can vote as an IG member (assuming you can edit the wiki), but you should simply mark whether you plan to implement or not.
17:13:13 <AdamB> ... could talk about which would be covered by schema.org etc.
17:13:27 <harry> It's totally useful to know if you would actually 'use' this use-case, but that's different that implementation.
17:13:28 <AdamB> ... does this makes sense as activity for the IG
17:13:55 <AdamB> ... i already started, so will post to the mailing list so others can participate as well
17:14:34 <AdamB> ... makes more sense to track implementation in the WG there is no need to do that in the IG
17:14:59 <AdamB> Harry: would keep vocabularies as part of the IG as it's in scope there
17:15:19 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:15:21 <AdamB> elf-pavlik: that was main idea was to get help on the vocabularies mapping
17:15:23 <elf-pavlik> ack dahacouk
17:15:38 <elf-pavlik> AdamB++ thanks for help
17:15:40 <Loqi> AdamB has 3 karma
17:15:44 <elf-pavlik> scribenick: elf-pavlik
17:16:01 <AdamB> dahacouk: what my question to the list was about not seeing a real formal process going on. are there actually ??? that assist in the creation of the protocols
17:16:05 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk: does pools exist to assit in creation of API based on User Stories?
17:16:16 <AdamB> ... was just wonder if there where any tools that could assist and formalize that process. more than a wiki.
17:16:46 <elf-pavlik> harry: W3C doesn't have any specialized tools for transforming User Stories into API
17:17:04 <elf-pavlik> ... one issue with User Stories - you can iterate on them indifinetly
17:17:28 <elf-pavlik> ... we have a lot of infrastructure for specification writing
17:17:40 <elf-pavlik> ... most of the workflow tools would be wiki type
17:17:51 <elf-pavlik> ... if someone knows tools for that i would happily take a look at it
17:18:03 <harry> There is a large number of software design tools (UML, etc.)
17:18:08 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk: i would find interesting to know what you already looked at
17:18:24 <elf-pavlik> harry: just search on the web UML
17:18:40 <elf-pavlik> AdamB: i mentioned in on last telecon a week ago
17:18:55 <elf-pavlik> harry: most software developers use UML
17:19:03 <EdK> +1 UML at Ford
17:19:17 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk: i'll cover the use case
17:19:26 <elf-pavlik> action-3
17:19:26 <trackbot> action-3 -- Daniel Harris to Write carpooling use case (case of p2p marketplace) -- due 2015-02-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:19:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/3
17:19:33 <harry> UML we've looked at, it seems a bit too heavy weight for API and spec design.
17:19:39 <AdamB> TOPIC: Misc
17:19:45 <harry> but makes a lot of sense in large-scale software development
17:19:59 <elf-pavlik> close action-3
17:19:59 <trackbot> Closed action-3.
17:20:13 <EdK> q+
17:20:32 <harry> q?
17:20:36 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk: i want to understand better on how process in IG looks and how it influences process in WG
17:20:39 <harry> ack EdK
17:21:09 <elf-pavlik> EdK: in terms of this use cases i try to understand what Ford can contribute
17:21:33 <elf-pavlik> ... i hope we will be able to contribute, we need resolve some confidentiality issues
17:22:00 <elf-pavlik> harry: we do understand that large companies have rules around sharing
17:22:03 <dahacouk> EdK: that would be great to work with you on the usecase. Good luck getting openness.
17:22:15 <harry> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/ieapp/
17:22:16 <elf-pavlik> ... BTW we need you to rejoin the group as Invited Expret
17:22:23 <elf-pavlik> s/Expret/Expert/
17:22:34 <AdamB> q+
17:22:55 <elf-pavlik> harry: initial goal was that IG provides messaging infrastructure, Use Cases work
17:23:02 <elf-pavlik> ... WG needs to move very quick
17:23:31 <elf-pavlik> ... IG will continue collecting User Stories and Use Cases after WG completes its charter
17:23:50 <elf-pavlik> ... over the next week you sould participate in survey in WG (API User Stories)
17:24:02 <dahacouk> IG members can vote on usecases in WG?
17:24:12 <elf-pavlik> ... we will use it to judge candidates for APIs
17:24:26 <elf-pavlik> yes dahacouk try editing wiki page
17:24:41 <elf-pavlik> please just mark IG next to your vote
17:24:53 <dahacouk> Great! Thanks, OK.
17:25:01 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:25:05 <elf-pavlik> ack AdamB
17:25:08 <harry> ack AdamB
17:25:14 <elf-pavlik> AdamB: what do we need to work on in IG
17:25:22 <dahacouk> q+
17:25:23 <elf-pavlik> ... we didn't make progress fast enough for WG
17:25:24 <EdK> q+
17:25:36 <elf-pavlik> ... do some analysis on User Stories, what else?
17:25:50 <elf-pavlik> harry: IG was chartered with 3 possible deliveribles
17:26:02 <elf-pavlik> q+ re: Social Archtecture
17:26:15 <elf-pavlik> harry: 1. formalizing Use Cases document
17:26:17 <dahacouk> AdamB: UI mockups? So, we can test functionality?
17:26:35 <elf-pavlik> ... taking 'scrapy' ones currently writen in WG and writing proper document
17:26:49 <elf-pavlik> ... 2. Vocabulary work and questions
17:27:03 <elf-pavlik> ... elf works on it and it will become more importent as we move down the road
17:27:17 <elf-pavlik> ... many use cases will show missing vocabularies
17:27:32 <elf-pavlik> ... IG can flesh out, describe and eventually formalize those vocabularies
17:27:35 <elf-pavlik> ... e.g. experts finding
17:27:44 <elf-pavlik> ... the last document
17:27:54 <elf-pavlik> ... assuming that you have Use Cases document
17:28:08 <elf-pavlik> ... we find it hard to understand how those pieces all fit together
17:28:26 <elf-pavlik> ... how do we do step by step guide on how to understand Social Web Architecture
17:28:41 <elf-pavlik> ... IG will update it continelly
17:28:44 <harry> q?
17:28:55 <harry> ack dahacouk
17:29:25 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk, we talked during last call about having 'user interface' mockup
17:29:41 <elf-pavlik> ... taking for example facebook like dashboard and how to interact with it
17:29:54 <elf-pavlik> ... i really like the idea of building sort of 'top down' document
17:30:04 <elf-pavlik> ... i mean 'top down' as from user perspective
17:30:15 <elf-pavlik> ... that what i understand as use cases document
17:30:26 <elf-pavlik> ... i'll be up for continuing this cand of work
17:30:35 <elf-pavlik> harry: i see it in scope of IG
17:30:44 <elf-pavlik> ... WG focuses on protocol level
17:30:52 <elf-pavlik> ... IG can focus on Interaction Experience
17:30:57 <elf-pavlik> ... also user centric diagrams
17:31:20 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk: we can this way end up helping WG by saing, look at this mock up - how do we do this?
17:31:51 <elf-pavlik> harry: I see IG work also in helping to get more adoption of standards we work on
17:32:03 <elf-pavlik> ... diagrams etc. can help a lot with that
17:32:09 <harry> q?
17:32:17 <elf-pavlik> ack EdK
17:32:22 <harry> ack EdK
17:32:29 <elf-pavlik> EdK: i agree with what Daniel was saying
17:32:39 <elf-pavlik> ... we can go back to conversation we had during f2f
17:32:52 <elf-pavlik> ... we agreed with WG that we need to do API before starting Federation
17:33:06 <elf-pavlik> ... we talked about on how we start crafting those more complex use cases
17:33:21 <elf-pavlik> ... especially once we expect from buisness community
17:33:53 <elf-pavlik> ... tweetdecks like agreegartors, how do i belong to multiple groups, unified profile
17:34:37 <Loqi> *sniff*
17:35:08 <elf-pavlik> ... over next years IG will add a lot of value by defining federation, collecting use cases
17:35:20 <elf-pavlik> ... difining how in the end of the day systems interact
17:35:39 <elf-pavlik> ... where do we expect tight coupling vs. loose coupling architecture
17:36:06 <elf-pavlik> ... last year WG even needed to learn how to come together and work together
17:36:25 <elf-pavlik> harry: sounds like really good points
17:36:38 <elf-pavlik> ... we hardly scratched the surface what the federation should be and could be
17:37:00 <EdK> Sorry elf-pavlik, but you captured the high points just great!
17:37:05 <elf-pavlik> ... we expect in long run that as we have multiple security working groups we will create multiple social groups
17:37:06 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:37:09 <elf-pavlik> ack elf-pavlik
17:37:10 <harry> ack elf-pavlik
17:37:11 <Zakim> elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss Social Archtecture
17:37:16 <elf-pavlik> https://github.com/w3c-social/soc-arch
17:37:40 <dahacouk> elf-pavlik: link? respect?
17:38:04 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/Architecture_TF
17:38:56 <elf-pavlik> harry, in 2 weeks AnnB will become officially apointed chair
17:39:09 <dahacouk> We seem to be meeting every week. Fine with me.
17:39:10 <AnnB> oh dear
17:39:14 <AnnB> ;-)
17:39:17 <AdamB> there hasn't been any active work yet with the change over to AnnB and the focus on the wg user stories
17:39:21 <elf-pavlik> harry: it might come usefull revisit Task Forces
17:39:48 <Zakim> -AdamB
17:39:50 <Zakim> -EdK
17:39:50 <Zakim> -hhalpin
17:39:57 <Zakim> -elf-pavlik
17:39:59 <harry> trackbot, end meeting
17:39:59 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:39:59 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AdamB, elf-pavlik, hhalpin, dahacouk, +1.313.594.aaaa, EdK
17:40:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:40:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/18-socialig-minutes.html trackbot
17:40:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:40:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:42:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #socialig
17:42:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/18-socialig-irc
17:42:27 <elf-pavlik> rrsagent, make records public
17:42:30 <AnnB> I think we already have a standing telecon set up, per week
17:43:02 <AnnB> elf, do you need to capture who attended?
17:43:28 <elf-pavlik> AnnB, i can't see minutes... will email systeam to change default config (cc harry)
17:43:36 <elf-pavlik> rrsagent, make records public
17:43:54 <elf-pavlik> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:43:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/18-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik
17:44:11 <elf-pavlik> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:44:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/18-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik
17:44:13 <elf-pavlik> rrsagent, make records public
17:44:18 <harry> looks fine:
17:44:18 <harry> https://www.w3.org/2015/02/18-socialig-minutes.html
17:44:27 <elf-pavlik> harry, not logged in by any chance?
17:44:34 <AnnB> last time, when we thought we had problems with minutes ... turned out that the system was just backed up (if I understood)
17:44:43 <elf-pavlik> ok now looks ok
17:44:53 <elf-pavlik> looks like it has delay between request and making them public
17:44:54 <AnnB> I think there might be some sort of delay
17:45:00 <AnnB> is that true, Harry?
17:45:05 <harry> no idea
17:45:18 <harry> regardless, its fine so there's no problem
17:45:19 <elf-pavlik> harry, http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/socialig/2015-02-18/line/1424278827252
17:45:44 <elf-pavlik> http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/socialig/2015-02-18/line/1424278827252
17:45:48 <elf-pavlik> do you see difference?
17:45:56 <elf-pavlik> in WG: 09:58 trackbot RRSAgent, make logs public
17:46:08 <elf-pavlik> in IG: 09:00 trackbot RRSAgent, make logs ab
17:46:16 <elf-pavlik> public vs ab
17:46:29 <elf-pavlik> can we get default changed for IG to also have public?
17:46:33 <elf-pavlik> harry, ^
17:46:41 <harry> I believe it is public
17:46:49 <harry> I am not logged in and saw minutes just fine
17:47:20 <harry> if you have any issues, email sysreq@w3.org
17:48:16 <elf-pavlik> what "make logs ag" means?
17:48:36 <elf-pavlik> harry, i did: "rrsagent, make records public" which made them public after fact
17:48:50 <harry> I see no problem with doing that
17:49:13 <elf-pavlik> ok, i message sysreq
17:49:30 <harry> harry has left #socialig
17:50:36 <elf-pavlik> #2 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-interest/2014Dec/0017.html (for the record...)
17:50:39 <elf-pavlik> AnnB, ^
17:56:46 <elf-pavlik> I've sent email asking Systems Team to help us with making minutes public by defualt :)
18:02:17 <AnnB> I saw that; thanks
18:05:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, dahacouk, in T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM
18:05:01 <Zakim> T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM has ended
18:05:01 <Zakim> Attendees were AdamB, elf-pavlik, hhalpin, dahacouk, +1.313.594.aaaa, EdK
18:09:23 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik has changed the topic to:  Social IG: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig - Next meeting agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-03-04 - logs: http://socialwg.indiewebcamp.com/irc/socialig/today
18:36:01 <AnnB> AnnB has joined #socialig
19:43:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #socialig
22:05:24 <wseltzer> wseltzer has joined #socialig