19:44:18 RRSAgent has joined #sdw 19:44:18 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/18-sdw-irc 19:44:20 RRSAgent, make logs world 19:44:20 Zakim has joined #sdw 19:44:22 Zakim, this will be SDW 19:44:22 ok, trackbot; I see DATA_SDWWG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes 19:44:23 Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference 19:44:23 Date: 18 February 2015 19:44:36 make logs public 19:44:53 rrsagent, make logs public 19:50:01 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150218 19:53:33 eparsons has joined #sdw 19:54:18 DATA_SDWWG()3:00PM has now started 19:54:25 +??P2 19:54:29 -??P2 19:54:30 DATA_SDWWG()3:00PM has ended 19:54:30 Attendees were 19:54:45 DATA_SDWWG()3:00PM has now started 19:54:45 Frans has joined #sdw 19:54:52 +eparsons 19:55:46 Linda has joined #sdw 19:56:22 +CoryHenson 19:57:28 ahaller2 has joined #sdw 19:57:45 +??P8 19:57:47 ClemensPortele has joined #sdw 19:58:01 zakim,??P8 is me 19:58:01 +Frans; got it 19:58:04 +kerry 19:58:09 Simon has joined #sdw 19:58:32 phila has joined #sdw 19:58:36 zakim, this will be sdw 19:58:36 ok, eparsons, I see DATA_SDWWG()3:00PM already started 19:58:53 Adila has joined #sdw 19:58:55 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:59:16 -kerry 19:59:17 +??P11 19:59:19 zakim, ??p11 is me 19:59:19 +ClemensPortele; got it 19:59:25 +??P10 19:59:25 aharth has joined #sdw 19:59:26 +SimonCox 19:59:26 +ahaller2 19:59:34 +[IPcaller] 19:59:42 zakim, [ is me 19:59:42 +phila; got it 20:00:01 +??P12 20:00:07 KarlG has joined #sdw 20:00:21 CoryHenson has joined #sdw 20:00:21 tjtavila has joined #sdw 20:00:34 Zakim, ??P10 is me 20:00:34 +Linda; got it 20:00:37 RaulGarciaCastro has joined #sdw 20:00:38 scribe: eparsons 20:00:44 zakim, who is here? 20:00:44 On the phone I see eparsons, CoryHenson, Frans, ClemensPortele, SimonCox, Linda, ahaller2, phila, ??P12 20:00:47 On IRC I see RaulGarciaCastro, tjtavila, CoryHenson, KarlG, aharth, Adila, phila, Simon, ClemensPortele, ahaller2, Linda, Frans, eparsons, Zakim, RRSAgent, kerry, chaals, trackbot 20:00:56 JoshLieberman has joined #SDW 20:00:58 + +1.650.724.aaaa 20:01:10 LarsG has joined #sdw 20:01:23 MattPerry has joined #sdw 20:01:32 +LieberJosh 20:01:57 +MattPerry 20:02:05 +[IPcaller] 20:02:12 Alejandro_Llaves has joined #sdw 20:02:17 zakim, [IPcaller] is me 20:02:17 +RaulGarciaCastro; got it 20:02:47 +[IPcaller] 20:02:53 I am on the call - is there something further I need to do? 20:03:05 zakim, ipcaller is me 20:03:06 +aharth; got it 20:03:07 +Adila 20:03:09 KJanowicz has joined #sdw 20:03:14 +??P21 20:03:19 zakim LieberJosh is JoshLieberman 20:03:24 zakim, ??12 is KarlG 20:03:24 sorry, phila, I do not recognize a party named '??12' 20:03:27 zakim ??p21 is me 20:03:36 zakim, who is here? 20:03:36 On the phone I see eparsons, CoryHenson, Frans, ClemensPortele, SimonCox, Linda, ahaller2, phila, ??P12, +1.650.724.aaaa, LieberJosh, MattPerry, RaulGarciaCastro, aharth, Adila, 20:03:37 zakim +??p21 is me 20:03:40 okay 20:03:40 ... ??P21 20:03:40 On IRC I see KJanowicz, Alejandro_Llaves, MattPerry, LarsG, JoshLieberman, RaulGarciaCastro, tjtavila, CoryHenson, KarlG, aharth, Adila, phila, Simon, ClemensPortele, ahaller2, 20:03:40 ... Linda, Frans, eparsons, Zakim, RRSAgent, kerry, chaals, trackbot 20:03:47 zakim, SimonCox is Simon 20:03:47 +Simon; got it 20:03:52 zakim, LieberJosh is JoshLieberman 20:03:52 +JoshLieberman; got it 20:03:53 zakim, Adila is me 20:03:54 +[IPcaller] 20:03:55 +Adila; got it 20:04:05 zakim, ??P12 is KarlG 20:04:05 +KarlG; got it 20:04:08 zakim, +[IPcaller] is me 20:04:09 sorry, KJanowicz, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]' 20:04:26 zakim, [ is KJanowicz 20:04:26 +KJanowicz; got it 20:04:38 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:04:38 On the phone I see eparsons, CoryHenson, Frans, ClemensPortele, Simon, Linda, ahaller2, phila, KarlG, +1.650.724.aaaa, JoshLieberman, MattPerry, RaulGarciaCastro, aharth, Adila.a, 20:04:41 ... ??P21, KJanowicz 20:04:41 zakim, ??P21 is LarsG 20:04:41 +LarsG; got it 20:05:22 regrets: Rachel, Jitao 20:05:36 zakim, who is making noise? 20:05:48 kerry, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: phila (66%), +1.650.724.aaaa (37%) 20:06:07 zakim, aaaa is KarlG 20:06:07 +KarlG; got it 20:06:08 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:06:08 On the phone I see eparsons, CoryHenson, Frans, ClemensPortele, Simon, Linda, ahaller2, phila, KarlG, KarlG.a, JoshLieberman, MattPerry, RaulGarciaCastro, aharth, Adila.a, LarsG, 20:06:12 ... KJanowicz 20:06:26 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150218 20:06:40 chair: Kerry 20:06:56 Meeting: SDW WG Weekly 20:07:07 phila has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150218 20:07:19 AndreaPerego has joined #sdw 20:07:34 -ahaller2 20:07:59 PROPOSED: Accept last weeks minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-sdw-minutes.html 20:08:06 +1 20:08:07 +1 20:08:08 +1 20:08:10 +1 20:08:11 +1 20:08:11 +1 20:08:12 +1 20:08:12 +1 20:08:12 +1 20:08:13 +1 20:08:15 +1 20:08:15 +1 20:08:16 +1 20:08:19 +1 20:08:19 RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes 20:08:20 +1 20:08:41 Kerry: patent call 20:08:44 -> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call Patent Call 20:08:56 zakim, Adila.a is me 20:08:56 +Adila; got it 20:09:07 I'm new 20:09:08 Kerry : anyone new ? 20:09:10 ahaller2 has joined #sdw 20:09:16 +q 20:09:19 -q 20:09:20 +q 20:09:29 ack KarlG 20:10:05 Payam has joined #sdw 20:10:15 Karlg: works at Standford U - Space & Time modelling interests 20:10:52 +[IPcaller] 20:10:52 Topic: F2F Meeting 20:10:54 F2F meeting: call for presentations on GeoSPARQL, NeoGeo and the ISA Core Location vocabulary, GeoJSON, GeoJSON-LD and TopoJSON (for initial background, not for discussion) 20:10:55 zakim, ipcaller is me 20:10:55 +Payam; got it 20:11:05 ahaller2 has joined #sdw 20:11:06 Kerry : Pin down agenda 20:11:14 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/F2f_Barcelona 20:11:44 ahaller2 has joined #sdw 20:12:02 Kerry : Please look - main job use cases review 20:12:36 Kerry: Scope Questions - Is this Use Case relevant re charter 20:13:19 Kerry : Next F2F item requirements then Use Case doc ready ASAP after meeting 20:13:40 I have volunteered! 20:14:01 Kerry : 2 Editors Frans & Alejando 20:14:18 s/Alejando/Alejandro/ 20:14:41 Kerry : 3rd editor welcome 20:14:57 +ahaller2 20:14:59 Yup! Sorry, audio problems with my SIP client again... 20:15:42 Agree! 20:15:50 Kerry: Final item Presentations on Technology in Charter 20:16:16 Kerry : From people who know them.. 20:16:28 +q 20:17:00 Kerry : Edit wiki to add your technology presso 20:17:00 ack mattperry 20:17:42 MattPerry: Happy to do GeoSparql 20:18:05 Gotomeeting will also be in use at the OGC meeting. Could use this for a remote presentation... 20:18:55 Visual sharing was what I was thinking. 20:18:59 Kerry: GotoMeeting & Zakim/IRC may cause confusion - Gotomeeting for video only 20:19:23 +??P7 20:19:27 zakim, ??P7 is me 20:19:27 +AndreaPerego; got it 20:19:29 +??P1 20:19:44 zakim, mute me 20:19:44 AndreaPerego should now be muted 20:19:49 zakim, mute AndreaPerego 20:19:49 AndreaPerego was already muted, phila 20:19:56 zakim, who is noisy? 20:20:07 -??P1 20:20:15 phila, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: eparsons (4%), KarlG (44%) 20:20:18 zakim, unmute AndreaPerego 20:20:18 AndreaPerego should no longer be muted 20:21:29 zakim, mute me 20:21:29 AndreaPerego should now be muted 20:21:57 Topic: Scope Questions 20:22:05 Scope Questions: pls see and add to http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Scope_questions_and_Requirements 20:22:35 Kerry : Idea to use q's to understand which parts of use cases are relevant 20:22:35 +??P1 20:22:53 zakim, who is noisy? 20:22:54 Kerry : To do before f2f meeting 20:23:06 AndreaPerego, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: KarlG (95%) 20:23:16 Kerry : No time to present all use cases at meeting 20:23:29 Kerry : Editors write up review 20:23:42 zakim, mute KarlG 20:23:42 KarlG should now be muted 20:24:00 i hear it too 20:24:01 zakim, fyi, the actual Karl Grossner is KarlG.a 20:24:01 I don't understand you, KarlG 20:24:01 No we all hear 20:24:01 too 20:24:05 zakim, mute karlg.a 20:24:05 KarlG.a should now be muted 20:24:14 zakim, who is noisy? 20:24:14 zakim, who is noisy? 20:24:26 same here! 20:24:27 phila, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P1 (100%), eparsons (8%) 20:24:27 zakim, fyi, the actual Karl Grossner is not KarlG, he is KarlG.a 20:24:29 I don't understand you, KarlG 20:24:30 s/here/hear/ 20:24:41 kerry, listening for 11 seconds I could not identify any sounds 20:24:48 zakim, mute ??P1 20:24:48 ??P1 should now be muted 20:24:48 zakim, mute ??P1 20:24:49 ??P1 should now be muted 20:24:50 zakim, mute P1 20:24:50 sorry, Simon, I do not know which phone connection belongs to P1 20:25:00 Thats better 20:25:03 -??P1 20:25:24 you cant hear me??? 20:25:30 No 20:25:31 Was Kerry ??P1? 20:25:32 Perhaps Kerry was P1? 20:25:32 No 20:25:38 No can't ehar kerry 20:25:42 zakim, unmute kerry 20:25:42 sorry, aharth, I do not know which phone connection belongs to kerry 20:25:48 -Payam 20:25:50 s/ehar/hear/ 20:25:58 i dont know why you cant hera me 20:26:10 i can hear you 20:26:13 s/hera/hear/ 20:26:21 zakim, who is muted? 20:26:21 I see KarlG, KarlG.a, AndreaPerego muted 20:26:22 i am hear -- i can hear you! 20:26:25 ack kerry 20:26:30 zakim, unmute KarlG 20:26:30 KarlG should no longer be muted 20:26:30 i am here - i can hear you! 20:26:56 +[IPcaller] 20:26:59 Zakim, KarlG is Kerry 20:26:59 +Kerry; got it 20:26:59 zakim, ipcaller is me 20:27:00 +Payam; got it 20:27:36 zakim, who is on the phone 20:27:36 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Simon 20:27:38 Kerry: Working from wiki page Q1 resolved - yes spatial data 20:28:06 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:28:06 On the phone I see eparsons, CoryHenson, Frans, ClemensPortele, Simon, Linda, phila, Kerry, KarlG.a (muted), JoshLieberman, MattPerry, RaulGarciaCastro, aharth, Adila, LarsG, 20:28:09 ... KJanowicz, ahaller2, AndreaPerego (muted), Payam 20:28:16 Kerry: Happy to accept new proposals 20:28:27 Does the requirement encourage publication or re-use of data on the Web; (suggestion to be developed) Is the requirement testable? - can it be tested by machines, humans or a combination of the two. (suggestion to be developed) public vs private web (suggestion to be developed) 20:28:35 +q 20:28:47 ack frans 20:29:07 Not sure #1 covers this "does the use case involve spatial enablement of Web data?" 20:29:11 Frans: Most appropriate place for other questions? 20:29:24 +q 20:29:57 Kerry: Wiki? 20:30:27 Phila: Mailing list preferred - track discussions, recorded 20:30:57 Phila: Mailing list also provides notifications 20:31:36 Kerry: Transfer to wiki also 20:32:15 Phila: And link in wiki to mailling thread 20:32:22 Linking stuff is always good 20:33:28 Kerry : Need to restrict Use Cases to Charter 20:33:41 Kerry : Some duplication expected 20:33:51 q+ 20:34:09 ack josh 20:34:52 +??P25 20:34:59 JoshLieberman: Wider area beyond spatial data on the web, can be given spatial content 20:35:22 zakim, ??P25 is Alejandro_Llaves 20:35:22 +Alejandro_Llaves; got it 20:36:10 joshLieberman : Clemens use case is good example 20:36:55 -Alejandro_Llaves 20:37:01 Kerry: Propose new question ? 20:38:10 existential crisis 20:38:22 LieberJosh has joined #SDW 20:39:07 Kerry: Frans q2 What does resolved mean ? - Agreed 20:39:10 Does the use case involve providing a spatial context or component to existing Web data or content. 20:39:41 -KJanowicz 20:39:54 Kerry : Q4 - Q2 and Q3 will help 20:40:06 Kerry: in resolving 20:40:31 +1 to adding Josh's question 20:41:23 LieberJosh : GeoRSS as example - adding geometry to feature 20:41:37 +KJanowicz 20:41:42 Ping backs 20:42:07 LieberJosh: Provide spatial context for other information water level in a lake for example 20:42:33 +??P25 20:42:36 Kerry: Reword ? 20:42:44 zakim, mute ??P25 20:42:44 ??P25 should now be muted 20:42:54 Kerry: Use case must meet ALL Questions 20:43:08 zakim, ??P25 is Alejandro_Llaves 20:43:08 +Alejandro_Llaves; got it 20:43:16 +q 20:43:23 Kerry: Combine with q1? Data + Spatial content 20:43:23 +q 20:43:28 ack 20:43:34 q? 20:43:38 ack frans 20:43:42 KJanowicz_ has joined #sdw 20:43:58 -KJanowicz 20:44:23 +KJanowicz 20:44:24 Frans: Use case real world problem - scope to requirements not use cases 20:45:03 KJanowicz has joined #sdw 20:45:24 please unmute KarlG.a 20:45:25 -KJanowicz 20:45:45 Frans: Scope helps in interpretation 20:45:53 +KJanowicz 20:46:03 q? 20:46:15 Kerry: Any one else on this topic ? 20:46:46 +q 20:46:56 -Alejandro_Llaves 20:46:57 ack karlG 20:47:02 please unmute KarlG.a 20:47:11 Maybe we can try out the scoping process on one use case as a test? 20:47:11 zakim, who is muted? 20:47:11 I see AndreaPerego muted 20:47:12 question for Josh 20:47:25 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:47:25 On the phone I see eparsons, CoryHenson, Frans, ClemensPortele, Simon, Linda, phila, Kerry, KarlG.a, JoshLieberman, MattPerry, RaulGarciaCastro, aharth, Adila, LarsG, ahaller2, 20:47:29 ... AndreaPerego (muted), Payam, KJanowicz 20:47:45 zakim, KarlG.a is KarlG 20:47:45 +KarlG; got it 20:47:47 -q 20:47:49 KarlG: Q for Josh - spatial context is spatial data ? 20:48:35 q+ to wonder whether this is the Web/GIS split 20:48:37 LieberJosh: Context not geometry 20:48:51 Geometry is a property or attribute, but is not a feature in its own right 20:49:01 LieberJosh: Geometry is attribute 20:49:42 focusing merely on geometry would be very reductionistic 20:50:11 +1 to KJanowicz 20:50:13 "context" may imply too much though, too broad a term 20:50:25 LieberJosh: may want to link spatial object to different spatial geometry or reference for context 20:50:55 what about platial data? 20:50:56 KarlG: Spatial data definition is Broad enough 20:51:04 We may need a glossary page 20:51:11 +1 to KarlG 20:51:33 +1 to Frans 20:51:35 +1 to Kerry 20:51:40 Kerry: OK to amend spatial data or context 20:51:40 +1 to Frans 20:51:46 +q 20:52:02 ack me 20:52:02 phila, you wanted to wonder whether this is the Web/GIS split 20:52:03 ack phila 20:53:01 Phila: Interesting - problem with conceptual areas without boundary - little Italy for example 20:53:36 ack kjan 20:53:39 Phila: Spatial context makes sense +Lieberjosh 20:53:46 +1 for Phila 20:53:54 Montello, Daniel R., Alinda Friedman, and Daniel W. Phillips. "Vague cognitive regions in geography and geographic information science." International Journal of Geographical Information Science 28.9 (2014): 1802-1820. 20:54:19 kjanowicz: Not explicit spatial geometry 20:54:34 +1 Phila 20:54:58 Names are the primary 'spatial' designator in the general community! 20:55:03 placial? ;^) 20:55:06 not about whether you like the term, I made the same argument as you did 20:55:18 +q 20:55:22 :-) KJanowicz 20:55:32 ack cory 20:55:32 +1 to spatial data or spatial context 20:55:35 for most of the places we do not have an exact spatial representation 20:56:08 CoryHenson: Spatial and Observations ? Observation out of scope ? 20:56:35 However, PhilA argument (you can put a name on a map) proves that place-name can be linked to a coordinate, even if it is merely 'centre of gravity' or similar 20:56:41 an observation can be of spatial nature. The observer can also have a location. 20:56:45 Kerry: No SSN covers this 20:56:48 Cartographers have known this forever 20:57:02 so if our SSN is part of 'spatial' then our definition is very broad anyway 20:57:10 Observation actually has a multiplicity of spatial references, not a paucity 20:57:21 Kerry: Don't want spatial but not temporal 20:57:57 If I understand correctly, Josh argument is that names can be linked to spatial coordinates, but often the link is maintained externally. 20:57:58 this always happens to time 20:58:01 +1 on spatial implies temporal 20:58:34 Is the use case specifically about Spatial data on the Web? (Resolved 29/1/2015) 20:58:37 In the locations and addresses group we hade a nice discussion about space and time. I send the link when I find it. 20:58:50 Is the use case specifically about Spatial data or spatial context on the Web? 20:59:01 Here it is: https://www.w3.org/community/locadd/wiki/Space_and_Time 20:59:08 @kerry - what am I supposed to be looking at? 20:59:21 can we then say "spatiotemporal data or spatiotemporal context"? 20:59:28 Propose: is the use case specifically about Spatial data or spatial context on the Web? 20:59:44 +1 21:00:16 I am not clear on the definition of spatial context. 21:00:43 + 21:00:43 This would amend the resolution taken on 29 Jan - which is fine 21:00:45 +1 21:00:46 +1 21:00:50 +1 21:00:57 +1 21:00:58 +1 21:00:59 +1 21:01:00 +1 21:01:00 +1 21:01:18 +1 21:01:20 +1 21:01:21 -1 21:01:21 +1 21:01:28 +1 21:01:29 q+ 21:01:42