IRC log of ua on 2015-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:42:20 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #ua

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-irc

17:42:22 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

17:42:22 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #ua

17:42:24 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG

17:42:24 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes

17:42:25 [trackbot]

Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

17:42:25 [trackbot]

Date: 12 February 2015

17:42:35 [allanj]

rrsagent, set logs public

17:45:42 [allanj]

regrets: kim

17:45:50 [allanj]

chair: JimAllan

17:46:08 [allanj]

Agenda+ 4.1.6 comments -

17:46:17 [allanj]

Agenda+ Action-1067 1.4

17:46:25 [allanj]

Agenda+ Exit Criteria

18:01:07 [jeanne2]

agenda+ FYI to changes in the Mobile Task Force Note Appendix

18:01:44 [Jan]

Jan has joined #ua

18:02:03 [Jan]

zakim, code?

18:02:03 [Zakim]

the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan

18:02:19 [Zakim]

WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started

18:02:26 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

18:02:40 [Jan]

zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan

18:02:40 [Zakim]

+Jan; got it

18:02:59 [Zakim]

+Jim_Allan

18:03:27 [Zakim]

+Jeanne

18:03:48 [Greg]

Greg has joined #ua

18:05:52 [Zakim]

+Greg_Lowney

18:07:59 [allanj]

scribe: allanj

18:08:13 [allanj]

zakim, agenda?

18:08:13 [Zakim]

I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:

18:08:14 [Zakim]

1. 4.1.6 comments - [from allanj]

18:08:14 [Zakim]

2. Action-1067 1.4 [from allanj]

18:08:14 [Zakim]

3. Exit Criteria [from allanj]

18:08:14 [Zakim]

4. FYI to changes in the Mobile Task Force Note Appendix [from jeanne2]

18:09:15 [allanj]

open, Item 4

18:09:24 [allanj]

open item 4

18:09:44 [allanj]

topic: changes in the Mobile Task Force Note Appendix

18:09:57 [jeanne]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/MobileTechniques/

18:12:05 [allanj]

perhaps live in WAI space, temporary doc

18:13:33 [jeanne]

http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/

18:14:23 [allanj]

The Note will be a first PWD

18:21:22 [allanj]

close item 4

18:24:04 [allanj]

topic: 4.1.6 comments

18:24:11 [allanj]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2014OctDec/0080.html

18:25:03 [allanj]

current wording:

18:25:07 [allanj]

4.1.6 Expose Additional Properties: For all user interface components, including the UA user interface, rendered content, and generated content, the user agent makes available the following, via a platform accessibility service, if the properties are supported by the service: (Level AA)

18:25:08 [allanj]

> Bounding dimensions and coordinates

18:25:10 [allanj]

> Font family of text

18:25:11 [allanj]

> Font size of text

18:25:13 [allanj]

> Foreground and background color for text

18:25:14 [allanj]

> Change state/value notifications

18:27:47 [allanj]

suggest moving "change state/value notifications" to 4.1.2

18:28:17 [allanj]

add references in message to Reference doc for 4.1.6

18:28:43 [allanj]

gl: wording of 4.1.2 and 4.1.6 are different. should the be aligned

18:30:01 [allanj]

... add "if the properties are supported by the service:" to 4.1.2 to align them

18:31:31 [allanj]

gl: this caveat, may limit accessibility, and can't comply because of the platform limitations. is that appropriate.

18:31:51 [allanj]

jr: we have conformance language around the platform

18:32:29 [Jan]

Platform: not applicable due constraints of the platform, per Paragraph 7 above (e.g. color handling on a monochrome device, video handling in a purely audio browser, or interprocess communication on an operating system that does not support multitasking). Describe the specific platform limitation.

18:32:51 [Greg]

That is, without the explicit limitation a UA on a platform lacking the full platform accessibility API would fail due to the platform, with the limitation they would pass.

18:34:28 [allanj]

RESOLUTION: remove "if the properties are supported by the service:" from 4.1.6

18:36:22 [allanj]

discussion of notification

18:36:25 [Greg]

I wish I could remember why notifications are not required for all of the things in 4.1.2.

18:36:33 [allanj]

does al of 4.1.2 need notification

18:36:45 [Greg]

Is it because originally notifications were a separate SC?

18:36:59 [allanj]

s/ al / all

18:39:25 [allanj]

gl: query and be notified when the following change

18:40:53 [allanj]

a platform accessibility service can query and be notified by the user agent when the following change

18:44:28 [allanj]

jr: accessibility service is in 508 and is a more generic term

18:45:31 [allanj]

RESOLUTION: change all occurrences of "accessibility API" to "accessibility service" in the document

18:53:40 [Greg]

It's already such a tortured paragraph. Adding this just makes it even worse: 4.1.6 Expose Additional Properties: For all user interface components, including the UA user interface, rendered content, and generated content, the user agent makes available the following properties available and provides notification when they change, via a platform accessibility service, if the properties are...

18:53:41 [Greg]

...supported by the service: (Level AA)

18:53:51 [allanj]

perhaps put the change notification in the resource document

18:55:29 [allanj]

Expose Basic Properties: For all user interface components (including UA user interface, rendered content, and generated content) the user agent makes available, including change notifications, the following via a platform accessibility service:

18:55:29 [Jan]

4.1.6 Expose Additional Properties: For all user interface components (including the UA user interface, rendered content, and generated content), the user agent makes available the following, via a platform accessibility service

18:56:14 [Jan]

Role (and role change notifications)

18:56:34 [Jan]

State (and state change notifications)

18:56:42 [allanj]

gl: for every bullet:

18:56:53 [Greg]

Ugly.

18:57:20 [jeanne]

For all user interface components (e.g. the UA user interface, rendered content, and generated content) , the user agent makes available the following via a platform accessibility service provided the properties are supported by the service: (Level AA)

18:57:49 [Jan]

Expose Basic Properties: For all user interface components (including UA user interface, rendered content, and generated content) the user agent makes available the following properties and any change notifications via a platform accessibility service:

18:59:31 [allanj]

RESOLUTION: change 4.1.2 to "Expose Basic Properties: For all user interface components (including UA user interface, rendered content, and generated content) the user agent makes available the following properties and any change notifications via a platform accessibility service:"

19:00:32 [allanj]

RESOLUTION: remove "change state/value notifications" from 4.1.6

19:00:42 [allanj]

close item 1

19:02:24 [Greg]

"Platform accessibility API" was changed to "Platform accessibility services" everywhere except (a) the Note for 4.1 and (b) the first example for 4.1.4

19:02:47 [jeanne]

action: jeanne to fix terms: Platform Accessibility API changes to Platform Accessibility Services

19:02:47 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1069 - Fix terms: platform accessibility api changes to platform accessibility services [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-02-19].

19:02:50 [allanj]

rrsagent, make minutes

19:02:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-minutes.html allanj

19:03:34 [jeanne]

action: jeanne to update 4.1.6 to parallel 4.1.2

19:03:34 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1070 - Update 4.1.6 to parallel 4.1.2 [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-02-19].

19:05:03 [allanj]

topic: Action-1067 1.4

19:05:05 [allanj]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0016.html

19:06:41 [allanj]

PROPOSAL #1: In 1.4.1 Basic text formatting (Globally) - REMOVE the note:

19:06:43 [allanj]

Note: Any user settings from the platform for these characteristics are implemented.

19:06:44 [allanj]

PROPOSAL #2: 1.3.1 Distinguishable Highlighting - REMOVE the note:

19:06:46 [allanj]

Note: Any user settings from the platform for these characteristics are implemented.

19:07:05 [allanj]

rationale: ed. The rationale for removing them is twofold: (1) the notes are normative, meaning that any other implementation approach would be a FAIL. (2) the notes could really apply much more widely (e.g. 1.3.3 Highlighting Active Keyboard Focus). In fact, we already have a conformance applicability note:

19:07:06 [allanj]

- "Relationship with operating system or platform: The user agent does not need to implement every behavior itself. A required behavior can be provided by the platform, user agent, user agent extensions, or potentially other layers. All are acceptable, as long as they are enumerated in the conformance claim."

19:07:32 [allanj]

PROPOSAL #3: NEW SC 1.4.X: Default to platform text settings: The user can specify that platform text settings be used as the default values for text configuration. (Level AA)

19:08:41 [allanj]

gl: ff has a check box for use system color

19:09:19 [Greg]

In Firefox, Tools menu, Options command, Content tab, Colors button, Use system colors checkbox.

19:10:03 [allanj]

IE has the same thing for color

19:10:55 [Greg]

Unfortunately no equivalent for Fonts.

19:11:16 [allanj]

PROPOSAL #4: CONSIDER aligning 5.1.3 more with ATAG2 A.1.2.1:

19:11:17 [allanj]

5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those user interfaces respect platform accessibility settings and follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

19:11:19 [allanj]

A.1.2.1 Accessibility Guidelines: If the authoring tool contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those non-web-based user interfaces follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

19:11:44 [allanj]

PROPOSAL #5: REVIEW notes for GL 1.4:

19:11:45 [allanj]

e.g.

19:11:47 [allanj]

Note 1 is incorrect: 1.4.5 included in both sentences

19:11:48 [allanj]

Note 3 should link to "Guideline 1.7 - Enable configuration of user stylesheets"

19:20:34 [allanj]

RESOLUTION: accept proposal 1,2,3 from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0016.html

19:21:59 [allanj]

proposal 4 - aligning with ATAG will eliminate the need to hunt for any setting relevant to accessibility

19:22:28 [allanj]

ja: would make the wording simpler

19:23:26 [Greg]

I suspect that taking out the phrase "respect platform accessibility settings" will probably have no effect because the equivalent will usually be covered by "follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform", where those guidelines say to follow the settings.

19:23:35 [allanj]

RESOLUTION: change to 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those non-web-based user interfaces follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

19:24:09 [allanj]

rrsagent, make minutes

19:24:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-minutes.html allanj

19:27:03 [jeanne]

action: Jeanne to add Jan's proposal for 1.4.x from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0016.html

19:27:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1071 - Add jan's proposal for 1.4.x from https://lists.w3.org/archives/public/w3c-wai-ua/2015janmar/0016.html [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-02-19].

19:28:19 [jeanne]

action: Jeanne to change 5.1.3 to 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those non-web-based user interfaces follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A)

19:28:19 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1072 - Change 5.1.3 to 5.1.3 implement accessibility features of the platform: if the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those non-web-based user interfaces follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (level a) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-02-19].

19:28:29 [Zakim]

-Jan

19:28:44 [allanj]

gl: put 1.4 note 2 in the applicability notes

19:28:50 [allanj]

jr: +1

19:29:30 [jeanne]

action: jeanne to move 1.4 Note 2 to the Conformance Applicability Notes

19:29:30 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-1073 - Move 1.4 note 2 to the conformance applicability notes [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2015-02-19].

19:29:52 [allanj]

gl: note 3 and 4 seem fine.

19:29:57 [allanj]

rrsagent, make minutes

19:29:57 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-minutes.html allanj

19:30:44 [allanj]

RESOLUTION: remove note 1 in 1.4

19:30:58 [jeanne]

action: remove 1.4 note 1

19:30:58 [trackbot]

Error finding 'remove'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.

19:31:03 [allanj]

rrsagent, make minutes

19:31:03 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-minutes.html allanj

19:32:34 [allanj]

zakim, please part

19:32:34 [Zakim]

leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jan, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney

19:32:34 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #ua

19:32:39 [allanj]

rrsagent, make minutes

19:32:39 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-minutes.html allanj

19:33:04 [allanj]

rrsagent, please part

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-actions.rdf :

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jeanne to fix terms: Platform Accessibility API changes to Platform Accessibility Services [1]

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-irc#T19-02-47

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jeanne to update 4.1.6 to parallel 4.1.2 [2]

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-irc#T19-03-34

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne to add Jan's proposal for 1.4.x from https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0016.html [3]

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-irc#T19-27-03

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne to change 5.1.3 to 5.1.3 Implement Accessibility Features of the Platform: If the user agent contains non-web-based user interfaces, then those non-web-based user interfaces follow user interface accessibility guidelines for the platform. (Level A) [4]

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-irc#T19-28-19

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jeanne to move 1.4 Note 2 to the Conformance Applicability Notes [5]

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-irc#T19-29-30

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: remove 1.4 note 1 [6]

19:33:04 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/12-ua-irc#T19-30-58