17:04:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #socialig
17:04:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-irc
17:04:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs ab
17:04:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 76244
17:04:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM scheduled to start 4 minutes ago
17:04:44 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference
17:04:44 <trackbot> Date: 11 February 2015
17:04:59 <elf-pavlik> RRSAgent, bookmark
17:04:59 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-irc#T17-04-59
17:05:10 <AnnB> scribe: AdamB
17:05:17 <AnnB> chair: AnnB
17:05:36 <AnnB> so, what shall we discuss?
17:05:41 <elf-pavlik> agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-02-11
17:06:01 <AdamB> AnnB: wasn't sure what to include on the agenda ....should have put out an email for suggestions
17:06:13 <AdamB> ... tons of discussion in social wg on the user stories
17:06:26 <elf-pavlik> we can start checking our tracker on each call
17:06:33 <AnnB> that agenda (by elf) is from last week
17:06:38 <elf-pavlik> www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/open
17:06:41 <AnnB> good idea elf ...
17:06:48 <elf-pavlik> yes but we didn't finish everything
17:07:01 <elf-pavlik> and we have another week for Social API User stories collection
17:07:07 <AdamB> Topic: Looking at Actions
17:07:10 <elf-pavlik> issue-1
17:07:10 <trackbot> issue-1 -- Not duplicating vocabulary work with the Social Business Working Group -- raised
17:07:10 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/issues/1
17:07:11 <AnnB> right
17:07:12 <elf-pavlik> action-1
17:07:12 <trackbot> action-1 -- Pavlik elf to Gather api requirements (user stories) from diaspora and friendica developers -- due 2015-02-11 -- OPEN
17:07:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/1
17:07:20 <elf-pavlik> action-2
17:07:20 <trackbot> action-2 -- Pavlik elf to Discuss Social Profile Use Cases and Requirements with Credentials CG -- due 2015-02-11 -- OPEN
17:07:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/2
17:07:22 <elf-pavlik> action-3
17:07:22 <trackbot> action-3 -- Daniel Harris to Write carpooling use case (case of p2p marketplace) -- due 2015-02-11 -- OPEN
17:07:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/3
17:07:32 <AdamB> dahacouk: why do we have another week for the user stories?
17:07:55 <dahacouk> Yay! We have another week! Phew! ;-)
17:07:55 <AdamB> AnnB: the working group did decide to delay one more week due to all the discussion on the user stories.
17:08:47 <elf-pavlik> re action-1 i hope to get feedback from Diasora and Friendica
17:08:55 <AdamB> AnnB: there has been a ton of discussion on the social wg mailing list
17:09:02 <AnnB> discussing that WG delayed user story voting
17:09:07 <elf-pavlik> Ben also replied over mailing list that they will contribute what they have in withknown
17:09:25 <AnnB> catching Daniel up
17:09:37 <elf-pavlik> thanks AnnB :)
17:10:28 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk, you can always find WG minutes on agend page for the meeting https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-02-10
17:10:34 <AnnB> public-socialweb@w3.org
17:10:48 <elf-pavlik> rrsagent, make records public
17:12:20 <elf-pavlik> RRSAgent, generate minutes
17:12:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik
17:13:23 <AnnB> ok ... back to actions
17:13:34 <AnnB> anything happen, elf on action 1?
17:14:05 <elf-pavlik> i just commented on IRC and earlier today replied on mailing list
17:14:15 <AnnB> sorry, I'm not caught up
17:14:22 <AdamB> AnnB: why diaspora and freindica elf ?
17:14:36 <AdamB> ... from action 1
17:14:52 <elf-pavlik> on User stories wiki page in Implementations - Open Platforms you can find links to my request to contribute
17:15:15 <AdamB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora
17:15:31 <AdamB> sorry, wrong link :)
17:15:32 <elf-pavlik> they have big community and years of experience
17:15:43 <AnnB> ok .. I'll read more later
17:15:53 <AdamB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaspora_%28social_network%29
17:15:57 <AnnB> do they represent diff examples than ones we've talked about?
17:16:12 <elf-pavlik> please see http://the-federation.info
17:16:16 <AnnB> ok
17:16:52 <AdamB> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendica
17:16:56 <elf-pavlik> i asked them which stories they have implemented and to write new missing stories
17:17:10 <AnnB> did you get any interest?
17:17:15 <AdamB> AdamB: diaspora and friendica are more around open transparent social networks
17:17:44 <AnnB> is that it for action 1, so far, elf?
17:17:47 <elf-pavlik> i just did it yesterday/today so hope to get feedback in next days
17:17:50 <AnnB> right
17:17:53 <elf-pavlik> yes
17:18:07 <elf-pavlik> present:  dahacouk, Ann, AdamB, Lloyd_Fasset, elf-pavlik
17:18:12 <elf-pavlik> RRSAgent, generate minutes
17:18:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik
17:18:17 <AdamB> AnnB: is writing email to the advisory committee for help from people in international areas with their social toosl
17:18:24 <AdamB> s/toosl/tools/
17:18:40 <Loqi> *sniff*
17:18:47 <AnnB> geez .. that's frustrating
17:18:48 <dahacouk> dahacouk is now subscribed to SocialWG mailing list! ;-)
17:19:06 <elf-pavlik> dahacouk++
17:19:06 <Loqi> dahacouk has 1 karma
17:19:24 <elf-pavlik> action-2
17:19:24 <trackbot> action-2 -- Pavlik elf to Discuss Social Profile Use Cases and Requirements with Credentials CG -- due 2015-02-11 -- OPEN
17:19:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/2
17:19:40 <elf-pavlik> i also fwd some info to IG mailing list...
17:19:46 <AnnB> ok ..
17:19:53 <AnnB> any more on that for now?
17:20:07 <elf-pavlik> with link to Credential CG Use Cases which we may want to take a look at!
17:20:22 <elf-pavlik> nope, done with my actions for today :)
17:20:41 <AnnB> ok
17:21:09 <elf-pavlik> oh, i also sent email about two very rought drafts i put on https://github.com/w3c-social
17:21:26 <AnnB> AdamB: what should  we be doing with all these use cases?
17:21:41 <AnnB> ... how do we compare and contrast in a useful way
17:21:57 <AnnB> dahacouk: is there a methodology we could use?
17:21:59 <AdamB> AdamB: what do we do with our current use cases? do we finish them up to make them complete them and then bounce them against what work is done in the social wg and from what we've done in the past with the social Incubator Group?
17:22:14 <elf-pavlik> next week we start survey to collect +1 / 0 / -1 (with explainations) and who plans to implement what
17:22:22 <AdamB> dahacouk: is there a formal way to derive them down to something simple ?
17:22:30 <elf-pavlik> sorry confused Use Cases with User Stories
17:22:53 <elf-pavlik> did someone looked at http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/ ?
17:23:09 <elf-pavlik> i see it as possible source for inspiration ...
17:23:14 <AdamB> AnnB: i agree .. how to we distill it?
17:24:05 <elf-pavlik> we have in IG charter as required deliverable: Use Cases and Requirements
17:24:09 <AdamB> AnnB: notes the note from Lloyd_Fassett about his note also talking about the things in the future, not just what is going on today
17:24:18 <elf-pavlik> LDP WG did IMO good job on that
17:25:07 <AdamB> Lloyd_Fassett: wasn't much response to that email yet
17:25:13 <AdamB> AnnB: i'm thinking we should bring it up again
17:25:35 <dahacouk> +q
17:26:30 <elf-pavlik> can someone drop link on irc to archive of this email?
17:26:35 <elf-pavlik> please :)
17:26:54 <AnnB> one sec
17:27:13 <AnnB> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-interest/
17:27:23 <elf-pavlik> AnnB, thank you!
17:27:41 <AdamB> q?
17:27:43 <elf-pavlik> wait, i know archives but not discussed email
17:28:39 <AnnB> oh .. I see ..
17:29:11 <elf-pavlik> RRSAgent, generate minutes
17:29:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik
17:30:42 <AdamB> here is link to email from Lloyd http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2015Feb/0033.html
17:30:55 <AnnB> Lloyd:  ... may be a timing issue, or roadmap ..
17:31:14 <AnnB> ... we may need to define the basic cases now
17:31:31 <AdamB> q_
17:31:34 <AnnB> .. and then get to the federated cases
17:31:37 <AdamB> q-
17:31:47 <AnnB> ack dahacouk
17:31:48 <AdamB> ack, dahacouk
17:33:11 <AdamB> dahacouk: i would rather like to think about camps of philosophies as ideas and not tag it to specific people .... feel its better to focus on the ideas and we have a better working group methodology.
17:33:30 <AdamB> ... we are all about the same thing in the end but the question is how to do we get there in the most harmonious means possible
17:33:42 <AdamB> ... so talking bout ideas rather than people we would really move along faster that way
17:33:46 <AdamB> AnnB: i agree
17:34:18 <AdamB> .. that behavior is what TimbL is about
17:34:35 <AnnB> and hence the goal of W3C
17:35:33 <AdamB> Topic: Discussion about Group Activities
17:35:33 <AnnB> s/.. that behavior is what TimbL is about//
17:35:50 <AnnB> s/ and hence the goal of W3C//
17:36:20 <elf-pavlik> group activities as in social api user stories?
17:36:29 <AdamB> AnnB: there are the basic use cases which is what is being described in the initial set of user stories and then there is the more federated use cases
17:36:44 <AnnB> and market ones
17:36:56 <AdamB> dahacouk: think there are the technological aspects of the use cases and then also the human aspect
17:36:57 <AnnB> is that a reasonable high-level description?
17:37:24 <AdamB> ... think that the human parts should be talked about first and then the other stuff
17:37:47 <elf-pavlik> do we discuss IG Use Cases or WG API User Stories?
17:37:50 <AnnB> dahacouk:  most basic = 2 people friend each other
17:38:03 <AnnB> ... then various other actions are possible
17:41:43 <AnnB> ... frustrating that we don't have a method to distill all these user cases
17:41:51 <AnnB> s/user c/use c/
17:43:03 <AnnB> ... is there a systematic way we could do this?
17:43:28 <AnnB> AnnB: what would you suggest?
17:44:16 <AdamB> dahacouk: there should be a discussion about a framework to help guide the discussion for a formal api
17:45:40 <AdamB> AnnB: wondering if there is a more systematic approach we can use on the use cases
17:49:24 <Loqi> it'll be ok
17:49:34 <AnnB> suggest that Lloyd and elf's efforts to group the user stories might help us distill the cases
17:49:46 <dahacouk> dahacouk has 1 more week to "Write carpooling use case (case of p2p marketplace)"! Phew! ;-)
17:51:22 <AnnB> AdamB: voting on user stories seems aimed at prioritization
17:51:47 <AnnB> ... let's work on agenda for next IG meeting
17:52:46 <AdamB> AnnB: i would enjoy and invite help to figure out our agendas
17:52:52 <AnnB> ++++1
17:52:58 <AdamB> dacacouk: i like to work on documents
17:53:17 <AdamB> ... conversations are about documents. so one part of call could be to go over the user cases
17:53:49 <AdamB> maybe we just start with looking at the current state of the use cases and then figure out what makes sense to do next with them?
17:54:03 <AnnB> I'm concerned there are too many use cases
17:54:46 <AnnB> I will look at info re: how to distill down a big list
17:54:56 <AnnB> ... process or tool for that?
17:55:08 <AnnB> ... technique
17:56:07 <elf-pavlik_> elf-pavlik_ has joined #socialig
17:56:13 <AdamB> AnnB: noted that there is different things that are happening in the API vs the UI
17:56:46 <dahacouk> s/dacacouk/dahacouk
17:56:47 <AdamB> UI = user interface
17:57:43 <dahacouk> UI will typically inform the API
17:57:46 <AnnB> AdamB:  UI will typically inform what happens with API
17:58:02 <AnnB> ... re: process to distill a big list ..
17:58:17 <AnnB> ... lots of possibilities
17:58:26 <AnnB> what do you recommend ?
17:58:46 <AnnB> AdamB:  keep user stories succinct;
17:59:23 <AnnB> ... make 2nd page to describe details, but without changing te story
17:59:43 <AnnB> ... look at stories for patterns .. this is the "art"
18:00:34 <dahacouk> dahacouk: what I want to see is my own user dashboard (like Facebook) but unbranded and containing all my friends and events from all my social networks.
18:01:12 <AnnB> AdamB:  we might take inspiration from agile / scrum techniques
18:02:21 <AnnB> ... we can look at a wider 'picture' than WG
18:03:15 <AnnB> ... we need to organize our ideas better and summarize
18:03:43 <AnnB> ... yes, dahacouk... I've had vision for "one inbox"
18:05:29 <AnnB> ... sequence diagrams might be helpful (e.g., UML)
18:05:46 <dahacouk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequence_diagram
18:08:54 <AnnB> Lloyd: use cases were our main charter focus ...
18:09:56 <AnnB> ... maybe we could now reach out to companies (e.g., Boeing, Ford .. ) as to their interest in what's being defined?
18:12:21 <AdamB> my apologies i need to drop
18:12:24 <Zakim> -AdamB
18:15:32 <dahacouk> Hope that WG in Boston will be bi-directionally streamed. March 17/18
18:15:49 <dahacouk> Tool for video conferencing?
18:16:09 <AnnB> I have to remember the WebRTC tool we used from Santa Clara .. it was pretty neat
18:16:36 <Zakim> -Lloyd_Fassett
18:16:39 <Zakim> -Ann
18:16:41 <Zakim> -dahacouk
18:16:41 <Zakim> T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM has ended
18:16:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Ann, dahacouk, AdamB, Lloyd_Fassett
18:17:08 <AnnB> rrsagent, make minutes
18:17:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-minutes.html AnnB
18:18:05 <AnnB> hmm .. those minutes are missing the last half of meeting
18:18:11 <AnnB> rrsagent, make minutes
18:18:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-minutes.html AnnB
18:18:40 <AnnB> aargh .. what to do?
18:19:33 <AnnB> rrsagent, shape up
18:19:33 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'shape up', AnnB.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:19:35 <AnnB> haha
18:19:41 <AnnB> rrsagent, make minutes
18:19:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-minutes.html AnnB
18:20:13 <AnnB> trackbot, end meeting
18:20:13 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:20:13 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
18:20:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:20:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-socialig-minutes.html trackbot
18:20:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:20:22 <RRSAgent> I see no action items