14:33:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:33:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-forms-irc
14:33:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:33:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:33:32 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:33:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:33:33 <trackbot> Date: 11 February 2015
14:33:42 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Feb/0006
14:33:47 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:33:56 <Steven> Regrets: Nick, Philip
14:37:03 <Steven> Topic: Section 10 (ontinued)
14:37:10 <Steven> s/ont/cont/
14:37:23 <Steven> Steven: Last time we discussed section 10: http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-forms-minutes.html
14:37:51 <Steven> ... we got as far as 10.4.12, in this email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Jan/0016.html
14:38:22 <Steven> ... so the next point would be "10.5.7
14:38:22 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_xforms-compute-exception_Event
14:38:22 <Steven> We need to decide about the editorial note."
14:39:09 <Steven> ... Oh wait, we already dealt with that.
14:39:18 <Steven> Erik: Yes, I have an action item to deal with it.
14:40:16 <Steven> Steven: Sorry, made a mistake, last minutes were these :http://www.w3.org/2015/01/28-forms-minutes.html
14:40:48 <Steven> Steven: Oh, sorry, we finished section 10 then. My bad.
14:41:09 <Steven> Steven: So that means we can go straight on to:
14:41:16 <Steven> Topic: Section 11 - Actions
14:42:16 <Steven> Steven: From Alain - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Feb/0008.html
14:42:34 <Steven> "
14:42:34 <Steven> At 11.17, a global Javascript variable named "XForms" is introduced:
14:42:34 <Steven> * why not mention it already at 10.8?
14:42:34 <Steven> * it would be much more convenient for an engine such as XSLTForms to specify
14:42:34 <Steven> methods instead of properties: ".getVar(name)" instead of ".var.name",
14:42:35 <Steven> "getContext()" instead of ".context". If not, each and every possible variable
14:42:35 <Steven> has to be stored in XForms.var before executing the script action, whether it
14:42:35 <Steven> will be effectively used or not.
14:42:35 <Steven> * is a script action allowed to modify an XForms variable?
14:42:35 <Steven> * which mapping should be used for sequences? Javascript arrays?
14:42:35 <Steven> "
14:44:19 <Steven> Point 1: Put the XForms JS variable in section on the DOM interface, 10.8
14:44:46 <Steven> Erik: I'm not sure if we are ready to specify a JS api.
14:44:54 <Steven> ... what we have is rather empoverished.
14:45:18 <Steven> ... if we want to add to it, it should be more consistent and comprehensive.
14:46:05 <Steven> Steven: So this section makes life difficult for you
14:46:11 <Steven> Alain: Yes.
14:47:05 <Steven> Erik: This section is new, 10.8 is not.
14:47:43 <Steven> Steven: I don't recall agreeing on these defnitions, but we should definitely reach some consensus.
14:49:34 <Steven> Erik: This is probably Nick's work. We do want to provide context information to a piece of Javascript
14:50:25 <Steven> Steven: Alain is suggesting we should use methods instead of properties. Any objection?
14:52:30 <Steven> Erik: There is a global XForms object.
14:52:41 <Steven> ... I don't know if that's the right way.
14:53:29 <Steven> Alain: We have extra parameters for allowing JS functions with XPath
14:53:54 <Steven> Erik: So XPath functions in JS need more information
14:54:17 <Steven> ... we could say that we are not yet ready... and wait for experience reports
14:54:27 <Steven> ... or specify an API
14:54:38 <Steven> ... I am not confident about the latter
14:54:48 <Steven> ... needs experimentation
14:55:37 <Steven> Steven: SO you are suggesting that 11.17 should allow the script element, but no details of API
14:55:42 <Steven> s/SO/So/
14:56:28 <Steven> Erik: Yes.
14:57:28 <Steven> Steven: There is the other direction too, using JS functions in XPath expressions. We don't define that either.
14:57:43 <Steven> Alain: We do do that in XSLTForms
14:58:03 <Steven> ... when a function isn't available, we look to see if there is one with the same name in JS.
14:58:21 <Steven> Steven: Any problems with passing the parameters?
14:58:26 <Steven> Alain: Always strings
14:58:56 <Steven> Steven: So do we agree to trim down this section?
14:59:23 <Steven> Alain: Say that it is implementation dependent for the time being
14:59:35 <ebruchez> 7.9.5.1 Serialization as application/xml
14:59:52 <ebruchez> "waiting for further implementation experience and user feedback, to decide"
15:00:05 <Steven> Erik: in section 7.9.5.1 we say we are waiting for feedback. We should that here
15:00:12 <Steven> Steven: OK
15:01:28 <ebruchez> brb
15:01:58 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to rewrite a simpler version of 11.17, and ask for experience
15:01:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2008 - Rewrite a simpler version of 11.17, and ask for experience [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-02-18].
15:02:22 <Steven> Alain: In section 3.3 there is a use of stuff from this section " foo(XForms.var.p);" that needs to be removed
15:02:39 <Steven> ACTION Steven: to change example in 3.3 not to use " foo(XForms.var.p);"
15:02:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2009 - Change example in 3.3 not to use " foo(xforms.var.p);" [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-02-18].
15:05:05 <Steven> Steven: Next is here - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_setvalue_Element
15:05:43 <Steven> "Element nodes: If element child nodes are present, then an xforms-action-error Event occurs. Otherwise, regardless of how many child nodes the element has, the result is that the string becomes the new content of the element. In accord with the data model of [XPath 1.0], the element will have either a single non-empty text node child, or no children string was empty."
15:06:42 <Steven> Steven: I don't understand the last 6 words
15:06:49 <Steven> Erik: Sounds like a mistake
15:06:56 <Steven> Steven: So would should go there?
15:07:02 <Steven> s/would/what/
15:07:16 <ebruchez> or no children nodes if the string was empty
15:08:01 <Steven> Steven: Ah! I see.
15:08:58 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to correct 11.2 "or no children string was empty."
15:08:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2010 - Correct 11.2 "or no children string was empty." [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-02-18].
15:09:42 <Steven> Steven: In section 11.3 we use "clone" without really defining it. Are you happy with that?
15:10:04 <Steven> ... why don't we just say "copying"?
15:11:14 <Steven> ... we only use this word in this section, nowere else.
15:11:20 <Steven> Alain: It's a DOM term
15:11:47 <ebruchez> "deep copied"
15:12:18 <ebruchez> in 3.2.2, we use "copied"
15:12:24 <Steven> Erik: We use 'deep copy' in The Copy Element 8.3.5
15:13:35 <Steven> Not a huge problem.
15:14:18 <Steven> Steven: It's not a different thing than what the Copy Element  does, so it is odd that we use a different term here.
15:14:32 <Steven> Erik: Not a big problem, no strong feelings.
15:16:04 <Steven> Steven: If you try to insert into a read-only parent, we stop silently. Is that OK, that there is no event to warn you?
15:17:28 <Steven> Alain: It would be nice for debugging if there were an event...
15:20:51 <Steven> Erik: Not sure if events are the way to do this
15:21:52 <Steven> ... but I agree that there needs to be a way to know that it fails
15:30:02 <Steven> Steven: I think it's unfriendly npot to give the user some sort of warning why it hasn't been done. Let's think about it a bit more.
15:30:15 <Steven> s/npot/not/
15:30:54 <Steven> Topic: AOB
15:31:06 <Steven> Steven: Call next week, section 11 continued, and section 12.
15:31:31 <alain> alain has left #forms
15:31:38 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:31:55 <Steven> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:31:55 <Zakim> apparently Team_(forms)14:30Z has ended, Steven
15:31:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, ebruchez, Zakim, Steven, trackbot
15:32:28 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Steven
15:32:32 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/11-forms-minutes.html Steven