16:57:41 RRSAgent has joined #socialig 16:57:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-irc 16:57:43 RRSAgent, make logs ab 16:57:43 Zakim has joined #socialig 16:57:45 Zakim, this will be 76244 16:57:45 ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes 16:57:46 Meeting: Social Interest Group Teleconference 16:57:46 Date: 04 February 2015 16:57:51 T&S_SOCIG()12:00PM has now started 16:57:58 +??P11 16:58:01 chair: AnnB 16:58:18 +[IPcaller] 16:58:21 + +1.314.705.aaaa 16:59:09 Zakim, P11 is me 16:59:09 sorry, dahacouk, I do not recognize a party named 'P11' 16:59:17 +Ann 16:59:29 zakim, aaaa is me 16:59:29 +AdamB; got it 16:59:38 zakim, who is making noise ? 16:59:38 Zakim, ??P11 is me 16:59:38 +dahacouk; got it 16:59:48 AdamB, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P11 (20%), elf-pavlik (37%), Ann (4%) 17:00:01 thats me 17:00:11 already did 17:00:17 yep :) 17:00:28 unique i think 17:00:52 trackbot, status 17:01:02 +Lloyd_Fassett 17:03:14 http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/products 17:03:32 +eprodrom 17:03:49 eprodrom has joined #socialig 17:03:52 Hi all 17:04:31 agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialig/2015-02-04 17:04:47 rrsagent, make records public 17:04:55 rrsagent, generate minutes 17:04:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik 17:05:22 W3C public list for social Web WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-socialweb/2015Feb/thread.html 17:05:49 present: dahacouk, elf-pavlik, AdamB, Ann, Lloyd_Fassett, eprodrom 17:05:49 Sure. Cool. 17:05:59 Thanks 17:06:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik 17:06:38 User stories: 17:06:39 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories 17:06:40 Wait, that's it? 17:08:24 scribenick: elf-pavlik 17:08:25 i can 17:08:28 I can't stay after 12:30 unfortunately 17:08:37 scribenick: AdamB 17:08:40 yep, thats what i thought too 17:08:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-minutes.html elf-pavlik 17:08:57 AdamB++ 17:08:58 AdamB has 1 karma 17:09:30 ann: need to approve minutes from last time? any objections ..... no, so lets approve 17:10:03 Why superseeded? 17:10:39 Yes, DAniel HArris CO UK ;-) 17:10:46 ann: social wg needs use cases .... that has really superseded in that the social wg has begun work on some user stories 17:10:48 thanks Daniel 17:10:58 topic: Social API User stories 17:11:03 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API 17:11:38 eprodrom: one of the the wg task is to work on a social api .... have been working through the process ... start with going over existing apis and looking at examples. still need to look at other international social networks 17:11:46 ...collected a lot from the existing social apis 17:12:05 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Requirements 17:12:06 ... next step was to collect common requirements from those apis .... had done some work on this in before 17:12:24 .... last week the idea was more or less a checklist that says you can do X with the api 17:12:56 http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/federatedsocialweb/wiki/SWAT0 17:13:08 .... had some push back on those because they weren't as narrative as swat0 which would be more conducive to getting contributions to the group as proposals 17:13:14 ACTION: pelf to Gather API requirements (User stories) from Diaspora and Friendica developers 17:13:14 Created ACTION-1 - Gather api requirements (user stories) from diaspora and friendica developers [on Pavlik elf - due 2015-02-11]. 17:13:47 ... swat0 is a nice clear concise user story which lead to the idea that can we come up with a set of user stories that matches the set of requirements we have 17:14:31 ... yesterday in social wg meeting got on track by working to put together user stories over the next week. after that week the following week the wg members will be voting on those user stories 17:14:34 trackbot, link action-1 to product-1 17:14:34 action-1 (Gather api requirements (user stories) from diaspora and friendica developers) associated with product-1. 17:14:46 ... votes include: this is important to me, not important to me, i'll be implementing this 17:15:06 ... so had request to get user stories up as soon as possible for others to contribute as well 17:15:37 ... will be honest not 100% sure where that matches to the what the IG has already. they are informal, not robust not covering error situations etc 17:16:08 ... they are not fine grained requirements but do give an idea of "here is a cluster of functionality" so we can make decisions on inclusion in the api 17:16:20 ann: fabulous overview! 17:16:23 Yes 17:16:25 ... anybody have any questions ? 17:16:27 eprodrom++ 17:16:28 eprodrom has 2 karma 17:16:39 +q 17:17:32 ack dahacouk 17:18:22 loud and clear 17:18:36 dahacouk: two things spring to mind, a lot of things seem to be happening in calls 17:18:41 q+ re: ported one of IG use cases to WG user story https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Managing_economic_interactions 17:19:16 annb: is that because you are not part of the wg ... they do have the mailing list the wiki etc 17:19:47 also each call has minutes published! https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg#Past_Telecons_.26_Meetings 17:20:09 dahacouk: the main thing, are we mapping out to the limit of what is happening right now or are we trying to create a much more dynamic, fluid things that might come along in the future 17:20:38 ... i'm seeing things like groups and in my mind i'm thinking about groups that get created dynamically which can die off and then can start another one 17:20:41 q? 17:21:11 I'm sorry who's speaking? 17:21:17 oh its evan :) 17:21:41 yes 17:21:43 eprodrom: i don't feel its incumbent upon me to come up with new interactions 17:22:02 ... in the last 5-8 years we've had a certain set of functionality that has shaken out already 17:22:22 ... part of the api is kind of "paving those cow paths" 17:22:45 ... as a developer i would be looking for end points and mechanisms for doing things that i was used to doing with other social network apis 17:22:51 That's cool, we're taking what exists right now. Cool. 17:22:54 q? 17:22:58 ... would have a harder time with brand new modes of communication that i was not used to before 17:23:21 action-1 17:23:21 action-1 -- Pavlik elf to Gather api requirements (user stories) from diaspora and friendica developers -- due 2015-02-11 -- OPEN 17:23:21 http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/1 17:23:24 elf-pavrik: 17:23:34 elf-pavrik: i created an action 17:23:55 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Managing_economic_interactions 17:23:56 s/pavrik/pavlik/ 17:23:58 ... i will be working next week in gathering requirements from xyxyx 17:24:25 ... have question to evan .. can you take a quick look at the wiki page and provide feedback 17:25:00 I think I heard AnnB say that we should be able to cater or update to new use cases (when they arrive). 17:25:24 or, not build in barriers 17:25:29 thanks eprodrom! 17:25:32 eprodrom: i think its fine, its a fine user story would suggest breaking it up, if you think you can put in single user story that might be easier to get it in there ... following multiple paths through the stories makes it harder to read 17:25:33 Thanks 17:26:34 How can we be the most supportive at this time? 17:26:35 annb: thats my plan that the IG reads the user stories and look for gaps or input etc but at the same time we need to be cautious not to derail the process and the WG is trying to get their work complete before the charter runs out. thank you elf for bringing up the financial user story 17:26:39 i would say economic, not necessarly financial ;) 17:26:45 B-) 17:27:17 WG tells IG what they need at this time? 17:27:44 annb: evan couple of notes i made about the user profile story, what if somebody wants to delete their profile or dump it somewhere? 17:27:50 dahacouk, WG suggests what IG could prioritise to help with work in WG 17:28:04 ... would you like those types of concepts entered? just worried about editing them directly. 17:28:16 elf-pavlik: nicely worded 17:28:32 eprodrom: in that particular case typically with apis we looked at those types of things were not part of them, that was done out of band. through a UI. 17:28:55 ... creating a profile doesn't necessarily mean you have an account 17:29:08 .. or having a profile doesn't mean you have an account 17:29:30 +1 to profile <> account/login 17:29:41 eprodrom: when thinking of an api i try to think of a third party login account 17:30:05 i agree on the out of band use case not being part of the api 17:30:37 annb: how would you describe the things that go on that don't on in the api? the stuff that goes on in the web interface? 17:31:03 Social API is all about interaction between users...? 17:31:30 eprodrom: yeah i think we are going to come up with a lot of other social activity that might not fit in a server api. for example, one that came up earlier is federating a profile. where as this api is about client to server 17:31:43 ... the federation is not really in scope for this client to server api 17:32:07 q+ re: federated profiles and workin in Credentials CG 17:32:29 annb: and that to us, federating profiles within boeing, is a big deal for us. we have engineering systems, social tools, etc and we don't want to have users recreating profiles in multiple systems 17:32:48 eprodrom: Thanks! 17:32:50 thanks eprodrom++ 17:32:54 eprodrom: i'll be back next week on the call again 17:32:55 -eprodrom 17:32:58 eprodrom has left #socialig 17:33:04 q? 17:33:22 ack elf-pavlik 17:33:22 elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss ported one of IG use cases to WG user story https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Managing_economic_interactions and to discuss 17:33:25 ... federated profiles and workin in Credentials CG 17:33:31 http://opencreds.org/specs/source/identity-credentials/ 17:33:53 elf-pavlik: wanted to mention that i also participate in the web credentials group and there is a lot of work on identity and online profiles 17:34:02 ... would be good to look at the work going on there as well 17:34:20 ... a lot of work on this federated social profiles maybe have a task force to coordinate with that group 17:34:45 annb: is the discussion in those groups about the federation of your credentials? 17:35:45 http://standard.openbadges.org/ 17:36:45 ACTION: pelf to Discuss Social Profile requirements with Credentials CG 17:36:45 Created ACTION-2 - Discuss social profile requirements with credentials cg [on Pavlik elf - due 2015-02-11]. 17:37:00 trackbot, link action-2 to product-1 17:37:00 action-2 (Discuss social profile requirements with credentials cg) associated with product-1. 17:37:04 annb: what i was imagining in evans description is focused on the api stuff that has to go in to a standard it would include work around credentials etc but his explanation about it just being the hooks for the client to server api only 17:37:12 q? 17:37:37 dahacouk: my feeling on this is what happened to the wg, its awesome its mapping whats going on and its getting a common idea of common actions 17:37:59 ... what i was thinking about before was how is that implemented a fluid dynamic peer to peer environment 17:38:26 ... it would be interested if i get time to see how that would be stored in a lot of places. 17:39:13 ... i'd be willing to have a different discussion about different profiles in different places etc and talk about what do i want? kind of a blue sky conversation about what is that we want to happen 17:39:53 dahacouk, how about starting with putting on the wiki one or two use cases, which you would like specs from WG to cover? 17:39:55 annb: i think that what you are describing is thinking about this in what is a general functionality of a social environment when things are fluid and we are not all going to be in the same social network 17:40:10 ... i encourage you to go read that discussion in the WG going on right now 17:40:28 ... and its being focused on the actions in a social api 17:40:55 ... so it will be up to all the developers in the world to take the foundational blocks and build what they want to build 17:40:59 +q 17:42:03 dahacouk: i'm gussing, i will read the conversation, but both seem really valid. we need to track and document and standardize what is the manner in how the social networks operate 17:42:21 ... and two, we need to look at what / where we want to go 17:43:43 ... its interesting, there are two sides of the w3c .. one where its about standardizing what is out there and at other times its out there creating new things 17:45:19 annb: my impression from the wg yesterday is they are really feeling pressure to come up with something before the charter runs out 17:45:41 ... and i think the voting is aimed to figure out what goes in version 1 and then maybe what comes later 17:46:54 When does charter run out? 31 December 2016? 17:47:02 don't remember 17:47:03 lloyd_fassett: to me focus on apis that to social network that already have apis. if we standardize what the apis of the facebooks and tumblr etc we'll be solidifying their position in the world 17:47:24 dahacouk, yes http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter.html 17:47:38 ... if the first api just reinforces the existing social networks then don't see it being adopted much 17:48:15 q+ re: ecnomic interactions oriented user stories 17:48:26 dahacouk, still on q ? 17:48:30 ... but if we focus on what does the market want to do then that looks more towards the future and enables ... 17:48:56 -q 17:49:04 ... now would be the time for the IG to come together and present to the WG that here is a list of what we think are the real world things we see are needed 17:49:23 lloyd: I agree with both you and me! ;-) 17:49:50 annb: i hear you saying they are focused on the existing apis that are out there rather than moving to the world that could be 17:50:11 ... and that was what i believe i heard henry story was suggesting as well in the email discussion 17:50:15 ack elf-pavlik 17:50:15 elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss ecnomic interactions oriented user stories 17:50:45 elf-pavlik: you do have to be a member of the wg mailing list without being a member of the group. everyone can read it but not everyone can post to it 17:50:52 ... but will double check 17:51:03 Zakim, who's on the call? 17:51:03 On the phone I see dahacouk, elf-pavlik, AdamB, Ann, Lloyd_Fassett 17:51:30 question, if the wg is just standardizing what is already out there who would really have a need to adopt it? 17:51:42 q? 17:51:45 +q 17:52:24 elf-pavlik: yes, let's do it. 17:52:59 elf-pavlik: need to make sure the api is extensible so that new things can be added on to it for future growth 17:53:24 q? 17:53:56 dahacouk: i've got some free time in the next few weeks to just concentrate on work so i'll work with elf on this. 17:54:15 dahacouk, can i create action for you? i already took two for myself today :) 17:54:38 can you at least define what you guys are going to work on? 17:55:11 ... i want to come back to the question on why would anyone adopt a standard for things they are doing already .... my gut feeling is that having that would make building applications easier and then having the extending capabilities 17:55:26 would help for people to start pushing for new things to come in to the standard 17:56:16 lloyd_fassett: i think the new thing is going to be data. if there is a way to standardize that. if its the social api i think that is going to be different. 17:56:25 q+ 17:56:40 ACTION: dahacouk to write Carpooling use case (case of P2P Marketplace) 17:56:40 Created ACTION-3 - Write carpooling use case (case of p2p marketplace) [on Daniel Harris - due 2015-02-11]. 17:56:44 dahacouk, done :) 17:56:48 -Lloyd_Fassett 17:57:00 trackbot, link action-3 to product-1 17:57:00 action-3 (Write carpooling use case (case of p2p marketplace)) associated with product-1. 17:57:04 -q 17:57:16 +Lloyd_Fassett 17:57:39 AdamB, part of my corncern relates to why would facebook, thumber etc. addopt this stuff 17:57:56 s/AdamB,/AdamB:/ 17:58:28 Lloyd_Fassett has joined #socialig 17:58:30 Interesting... I didn't know that the big players have already said they wont use the standard. 17:59:31 G+ uses schema.org (an open technology) https://developers.google.com/+/api/moment-types/ 17:59:40 +q re: we are dreamers 17:59:46 ack AdamB 18:00:32 annb: the stuff that evan described in the user stories .. they are very foundational and as been mentioned those capabilities exist already 18:01:44 dahacouk: yeah probably need to have them just from the point that they are normal and already exist. it may be that things don't get adopted straight away but to me i have to keep on describing and building and that we don't need to stop others from doing the foundational stuff 18:02:03 ... we should stay on the items where our passion is blue sky type stuff 18:02:09 q? 18:02:12 annb: probably need to close out here 18:02:19 ack dahacouk 18:02:19 dahacouk, you wanted to discuss we are dreamers 18:02:40 +1 meeting next week! 18:02:43 q+ 18:02:45 annb: would you guys be willing to continue next week? i feel like two weeks might be too ling 18:02:45 yes, next week is good for me. +1 18:02:57 yeah, next week works +! 18:03:00 +1 18:03:07 harry has joined #socialig 18:03:10 Wow! 18:03:11 voting only starts next week and then last for a week 18:03:30 Not done, let's carry on! 18:03:31 vote will last 1 or 2 weeks 18:03:44 This work is useful anyway. ;-) 18:04:32 harry, action-1 18:04:38 action-1 18:04:38 action-1 -- Pavlik elf to Gather api requirements (user stories) from diaspora and friendica developers -- due 2015-02-11 -- OPEN 18:04:38 http://www.w3.org/Social/InterestGroup/track/actions/1 18:04:38 Exactly, we get v2 ready! ;-) 18:04:53 Hope folks here understood the user story request from the WG 18:05:09 harry, evan showed up today and clarified 18:05:18 Yes, I caught that. 18:05:25 OK, well, we're expecting those stories :) 18:06:00 lloyd_fassett: i think we should ask them to put off the vote for a week 18:06:24 annb: truthfully i don't think they are going to wait. 18:06:40 harry, can IG but not WG member write on WG wiki? 18:06:42 harry, who can update the social wg wiki pages ? 18:06:53 You have to join the WG 18:07:01 +q 18:07:05 as a member of Boeing, this should be no problem - just fill out the form and ping Anne to approve you 18:07:13 lloyd_fassett: my concern is that they create a standard on the existing stuff out there and that i don't find that promissing 18:07:14 ok, i'll add user stories from people who don't have access, please just send them to IG mailing list 18:07:22 Zakim, what's the code? 18:07:22 the conference code is 76244 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), harry 18:07:42 RRSAgent, generate minutes 18:07:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-minutes.html harry 18:07:44 q? 18:07:45 annb: will share the concern of some of the members of the IG 18:08:29 yes, I'm also noticing there seems to be some error with the minutes (trying to catch up) 18:08:52 uh oh .. what's prob with minutes? 18:08:56 and what do we need to do? 18:09:05 dahacouk: my feeling is that this is going to be version 1 and i still really think what we are doing in the IG is really important and is going to be very useful 18:09:21 No worries, we can always generate via IRC: http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-irc.txt 18:09:24 which has been captured very nicely 18:09:32 +1 dahacouk 18:09:32 ... thats why i'm happy to talk to you and thinking maybe if a more in depth conversation would help 18:09:46 Note that we just need a version 1 out ASAP, we are not going to finalize till all members have their voices heard 18:10:01 harry, why the push for v1 ? 18:10:10 It's in our charter - we have due dates! 18:10:13 it is just a draft for v1 18:10:20 v1 as First Public Working Draft? 18:10:21 ok, so date driven. got it 18:10:22 http://www.w3.org/2013/socialweb/social-wg-charter 18:10:24 (541) 848-2440 PST / lloyd@azteria.com 18:10:25 Lloyd_Fassett: OK. Then it may be tomorrow as I'm in UTC. 18:10:33 We were supposed to have a first draft out by end of 2014 18:10:40 but being up to 6 months behind is generally OK 18:10:49 more than that generally is a sign something has gone wrong. 18:10:51 annb: thank you everyone so much 18:11:03 +1 AnnB 18:12:11 trackbot, end meeting 18:12:11 Zakim, list attendees 18:12:11 As of this point the attendees have been +1.314.705.aaaa, elf-pavlik, Ann, AdamB, dahacouk, Lloyd_Fassett, eprodrom 18:12:17 -Lloyd_Fassett 18:12:18 pfefferle has joined #socialIG 18:12:19 thanks elf! 18:12:19 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:12:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-minutes.html trackbot 18:12:20 RRSAgent, bye 18:12:20 I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-actions.rdf : 18:12:20 ACTION: pelf to Discuss Social Profile requirements with Credentials CG [2] 18:12:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-irc#T17-36-45 18:12:20 ACTION: dahacouk to write Carpooling use case (case of P2P Marketplace) [3] 18:12:20 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/02/04-socialig-irc#T17-56-40 18:12:22 -elf-pavlik