15:47:53 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 15:47:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-mobile-a11y-irc 15:47:55 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:47:55 Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y 15:47:57 Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF 15:47:57 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes 15:47:58 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 15:47:58 Date: 29 January 2015 15:48:33 chair: Kimberly_Patch 15:49:05 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Jan/0018.html 15:50:25 Agenda+ Mobile Accessibility Note – survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20150126_survey/ 15:50:26 Agenda+ Next Steps – there will be no meeting Thursday Feb 5, the next meeting will be Thursday, February 12 15:54:19 Regrets+ Detlev_Fischer, Marc_Johlic 15:55:39 Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y 15:56:52 WAI_MATF()11:00AM has now started 15:56:59 +Kim_Patch 15:57:14 Kim - I will be joining shortly 15:57:49 Great 15:58:59 jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y 15:59:00 Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y 15:59:23 +Kathy_Wahlbin 15:59:49 +Jeanne 16:00:15 +Detlev 16:01:31 +Alan_Smith 16:01:33 Jan has joined #mobile-a11y 16:01:38 zakim, code? 16:01:38 the conference code is 6283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 16:02:31 +[IPcaller] 16:02:50 jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y 16:02:54 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 16:02:54 +Jan; got it 16:03:13 +[IPcaller] 16:03:17 + +1.703.637.aaaa 16:03:25 Alan-Smith has joined #mobile-A11y 16:03:36 zakim, I am aaaa 16:03:36 +jon_avila; got it 16:05:03 Kathy: focus for this call is walk through the sections of the document that we haven't reviewed together as a group and talk about other general comments about the document as we are getting ready to send this to the WCAG working group. Deadline end of month, so this is our last call before we send it , but that doesn't mean we can't be so making changes, just to get feedback 16:06:02 I read them last week. 16:06:59 Kathy: we will talk about the different sections, we will pause to give people a chance to review the sections and then we'll talk about it. If you get a chance I don't need to send this to the WCAG working group until Tuesday, so we have the opportunity to edit a few things. If you have time after this call or tomorrow to get some feedback in please go through and added your feedback to... 16:07:00 ...the survey so we can aand in those comments and make any necessary comments 16:08:27 Jeanne: I need to change this to a get help document this afternoon – after 2:30 today ccomments only in survey, not on wiki 16:08:40 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Note:_WCAG_2.0_and_Mobile#A.2_Zoom.2FMagnification_-_READY_FOR_REVIEW 16:09:04 s/get help/github 16:09:09 Zakim, take up next 16:09:09 agendum 1. "Mobile Accessibility Note – survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20150126_survey/" taken up [from Kim] 16:09:22 Topic: A2 Zoom 16:11:10 Detlev walking through comments 16:12:02 +AWK 16:12:25 Jan: okay with removing two lines from A1, general agreement 16:12:33 AWK has joined #mobile-a11y 16:15:01 q+ 16:16:10 Detlev: some browsers like dolphin have pinch zoom to assist with reflow but in my experience most browsers don't. Maybe in the reader, reflect sizes in settings, but not browser. Best thing would be to take out font size settings of the user because often they will be ignored. Also controls commonly don't get up to 200% anyway. That's the issue 16:17:03 John: Safari does follow, if you use Apple fonts Safari will follow that at least with IOS8, but it may be limited, I'm fine with language saying that. As far as controls for pages. We should be more explicit – up to 200% would be one of the options 16:17:36 Jan: visa requirements on content authors. User agents have own requirements under UAAG 2. They should do their job in the author should do theirs 16:18:28 Detlev: really aimed at developers – may be areas where user agents take care of this, but very uneven. It's not commonly available to users 16:19:15 Jan: proposal to support pinch zoom because that's the most widely supported thing? 16:19:34 Detlev: I would put that first and mentioned that there are browsers that support pinch zoom with text reflow 16:19:54 Kathy: we do say that – this is most commonly met by pinch zoom – we have some of that but we could clarify it further. 16:20:08 q- 16:20:29 Jan: made change on wiki 16:21:51 Detlev: better now, but that might not be the best way to put it. The main thing was the thing allowing page controls and system font size should be qualified – it could work but in many cases it won't work, especially for system size settings which are not for many browsers 16:22:41 Jon: we can solve the text size one by putting in at least 200%. The other I'm fine with qualifying – when supported by the user agent 16:23:02 Detlev: will not be supported by many common browsers at least so developers know that it's not well supported 16:23:54 Jan: 1.4.4 paragraphs are dense. My takeaway is developer will say what you want me to do 16:24:05 Kathy: bullets? 16:25:18 Kathy: Bullets that listed out the different ways, notes to quantify what we want the developer to do 16:26:06 Kathy: where it says to meet this requirement, instead this can be meant using one of the following methods, bullets, below that notes as far as qualifying limitations as far as user support and limitations on the devices 16:26:40 SC 1.4.4 requires text to be resizable without assistive technology up to 200 percent. To meet this requirement content must not prevent text magnification by the user. 16:27:25 SC 1.4.4 requires text to be resizable without assistive technology up to 200 percent. To meet this requirement content must not prevent text magnification by the user. The following methods can be used: 16:27:40 - ensure that the browser pinch zoom is not blocked by the page's viewport meta element so that it can be used to zoom the page to 200% 16:28:08 - support for system fonts that follow platform level user preferences for text size 16:28:15 - providing on-page controls to change the text size 16:29:30 Detlev: should the note be part of the bullet so it's kept together 16:34:40 Detlev: one more point that might be best practice– Ensure that custom dialogues and other pop-up windows that are intended for desktop browsers are rendered in a usable form in mobile browsers 16:34:52 Jon: it's an issue, is it an accessibility issue 16:35:10 Jan: weird to call out a specific type of UI pattern 16:35:25 Detlev: skip for now 16:35:37 Kathy: any other comments on section a? 16:36:00 Kathy: section B we had done last week, any major objections now? 16:36:12 Topic: section B 16:37:01 Detlev: 2.4.3 focus order, section B1 16:37:18 Kathy: level a 16:38:15 Detlev: Touch gestures taken for granted? 16:38:17 Jan: example shake phone, not great way, should also have alternatives 16:38:55 Detlev: keyboard is the only alternative 16:38:57 Jan: can add touch 16:39:16 Detlev: B5 minor rewording 16:41:40 Jan: redundant wording "should position interactive elements where they can be easily reached when the device is held in different positions". Already asking them to consider it. 16:41:57 Jan: remove the second reference 16:44:05 Kathy: we need it if we are saying the last paragraph. Maybe sentence in between to tie the last two paragraphs together. The point of this is to say we should consider where we are placing buttons so it's easy to access, but we shouldn't just be designing for right-hand use, we need to be considering all the different placements 16:44:31 Detlev: second paragraph on top then, basic qualification 16:44:40 +1 16:45:16 Topic: C3 16:47:06 Detlev: wording "before the page scroll" confusing. 16:47:36 Detlev: minor quibble, can move on 16:48:03 Alan: typo in C1 16:48:22 Topic: C4 Grouping operable elements that perform the same action 16:48:57 Detlev: putting link element around several elements would be a good fit, has some problems with screen readers. If there is some technique like that maybe we should reference it. 16:49:45 Andrew checking to see if there is a technique to group elements in HTML 5 16:50:28 just this one: http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H97.html :) 16:50:34 Jan: changing to reduces the number of elements 16:50:50 Topic: C6 16:51:43 Detlev: hint text in voiceover – is there a gesture 16:52:06 Topic: C7 16:52:58 Kathy: no content now, we can remove and come back later – any objections 16:52:59 Moving to discussion page 16:53:37 Topic: D1 16:54:00 Kathy: D sections just written, could add information, but just trying to get some information out now 16:54:56 Detlev: important to differentiate between keyboard notes– form etc. – and keyboard settings, option for alternative keyboards. There in here somehow but not clearly marked or separated. 16:55:32 Jan: I separated the last sentence 16:55:58 Kathy: any WCAG references for this? 16:56:51 Kathy: instruction because if we have the different keyboards from a usability standpoint it's important that users know what different data they can enter 16:57:21 Kathy: should be just refer back to C6 there – providing instructions, but that's just for touchscreen we don't have it for keyboard 16:57:53 Jan: good to tie this document back to WCAG 2, normative 16:59:04 Kathy: comments on D2 or D3? 16:59:20 distinguish between "offering default input by suggesting input entered earlier and stored by the browser" and "information available in a particular context (such as current date, time or location)"? 17:00:04 q+ 17:00:31 Andrew: not clear how making the right keyword for numbers or characters come up relates to 3.3.2 17:00:39 Kathy: clear instructions to let users know what type of data needs to be entered 17:00:56 Jan: the format of data – example date your year, month month etc. 17:01:22 Andrew: I totally agree, I just wonder whether this is one of those gap things 17:01:59 Kathy: just a side note, keyboard changing automatically different type of keyboard can be difficult for users to orient, if they are aware of the type of data, but we can address that later 17:02:09 q- 17:02:18 Jan: I took it out 17:03:05 Kathy: any other last comments? 17:03:44 Kathy: if you have further comments please put them into the survey. Jeanne is going to be moving this over to Github. 17:03:54 Kathy: if there is something critical that you think should be changed before we get it to the working group let us know 17:04:10 Thanks you, I have to jump off. 17:04:14 -jon_avila 17:04:26 -Alan_Smith 17:04:27 Kathy: great job, really happy with what we have. Great start to getting the techniques ready and also just getting a note out there to provide some additional guidance on mobile accessibility. Thank you for all your hard work on this.. 17:04:53 -[IPcaller] 17:05:12 -Jan 17:05:14 Andrew: link any instruction or guidance to facilitate feedback, that would be great. Also what timing we are hoping for. 17:05:27 Apologies, my connection dropped. 17:05:32 Kathy: trying to get this published by CSUN 17:05:53 Andrew: good to know steps backing up deadline 17:07:08 Jeanne: get it to WCAG tomorrow morning. One week for comment, one week for working group to fix, another week for WCAG to look at. 17:07:17 Kathy: finalized by the 20th 17:07:24 Kathy: this is also being published as a draft – that's important to note 17:08:02 -AWK 17:08:05 -Kathy_Wahlbin 17:08:08 -Jeanne 17:08:09 -Kim_Patch 17:08:12 -Detlev 17:08:13 WAI_MATF()11:00AM has ended 17:08:13 Attendees were Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, Jeanne, Detlev, Alan_Smith, Jan, [IPcaller], +1.703.637.aaaa, jon_avila, AWK 17:11:15 rrsagent, make minutes 17:11:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim 17:11:46 rrsagent, bye 17:11:46 I see no action items