IRC log of html-a11y on 2015-01-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:00:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:00:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-irc
16:01:00 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
16:01:00 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-a11y
16:01:02 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
16:01:02 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
16:01:03 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:01:03 [trackbot]
Date: 29 January 2015
16:01:10 [LJWatson]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:10 [Zakim]
sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
16:01:15 [janina]
zakim, this will be 2119
16:01:15 [Zakim]
ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 61 minutes ago
16:01:22 [LJWatson]
zakim,
16:01:22 [Zakim]
I don't understand '', LJWatson
16:01:23 [LJWatson]
who is on the phone?
16:01:25 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:25 [Zakim]
WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
16:01:27 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, paulc, LJWatson, ShaneM, chaals, zecho, janina, MarkS, liam, joanie, cabanier, sivoais, trackbot
16:01:33 [newtron]
newtron has joined #html-a11y
16:01:49 [janina]
zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML
16:01:49 [Zakim]
ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM already started
16:01:57 [JF]
JF has joined #html-a11y
16:01:57 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:01:57 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ShaneM, ??P15, [IPcaller], JF, [Microsoft]
16:02:02 [paulc]
zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:02:03 [Zakim]
+paulc; got it
16:02:05 [janina]
zakim, ??P15 is me
16:02:05 [Zakim]
+janina; got it
16:02:22 [paulc]
is on mute
16:02:46 [janina]
zakim, [IPca is Leonie
16:02:47 [Zakim]
+Leonie; got it
16:02:57 [Judy]
Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:02:59 [janina]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:02:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ShaneM, janina, Leonie, JF, paulc
16:03:05 [LJWatson]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:03:06 [Zakim]
sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
16:03:11 [rubys]
rubys has joined #html-a11y
16:03:16 [Zakim]
+Judy
16:03:22 [Zakim]
+Sam
16:03:39 [JF]
agenda?
16:04:36 [janina]
Chair: Chaals
16:04:36 [janina]
agenda+ agenda additions?
16:04:36 [janina]
agenda+ face to face meeting
16:04:36 [janina]
agenda+ Alt document (bugs, status, plan)
16:04:36 [janina]
agenda+ Action item review https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:04:38 [janina]
agenda+ Work Plan http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force
16:04:41 [janina]
agenda+ Wishlist items http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
16:05:07 [Judy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
16:05:07 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ShaneM, janina, Leonie, JF, paulc, Judy, Sam
16:05:17 [Zakim]
+Liam
16:05:35 [JF]
scribe: JF
16:05:41 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
16:05:41 [chaals]
zakim, call chaals-es
16:05:42 [Zakim]
ok, chaals; the call is being made
16:05:42 [Zakim]
+Chaals
16:05:49 [JF]
zakim, take up item 1
16:05:49 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "agenda additions?" taken up [from janina]
16:06:30 [JF]
CM: anything missing from agenda?
16:06:38 [JF]
zakim, close item 1
16:06:38 [Zakim]
agendum 1, agenda additions?, closed
16:06:39 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:39 [Zakim]
2. face to face meeting [from janina]
16:06:47 [JF]
zakim, take up item 2
16:06:48 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "face to face meeting" taken up [from janina]
16:07:04 [David]
David has joined #html-a11y
16:07:27 [JF]
CM: survey for HTML F2F meeting - HTML folk favored Redmond, and WepApps faovred Spain
16:07:43 [JF]
no appetite to split meeting however, so wondering next steps
16:08:11 [JF]
CM: stay tuned. Reminder if there are topics to bring up, speak up to get added to agenda
16:08:17 [Judy]
q+
16:08:24 [chaals]
ack ju
16:08:42 [JF]
JB: thought there were already 1 or 2 items already surfaced for that agenda.
16:08:54 [paulc]
There is no F2F Wiki yet
16:09:03 [paulc]
So nothing has been recorded.
16:09:09 [JF]
CM: not made a formal request to add anything to agenda
16:09:15 [JF]
JS: me either
16:09:28 [JF]
CM: discussed keyboard navigation focus stuff as a potential topic
16:09:49 [JF]
JS: may have a better sense later today/this week
16:10:35 [JF]
CM: assumption that there would be 1 breakout room, but assuming if we had any issues that they would be discussed more broadly
16:10:44 [JF]
zakim, take up next item
16:10:44 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Alt document (bugs, status, plan)" taken up [from janina]
16:11:29 [JF]
CM: observation that bugs were filed across multiple places. Liam was to bring feedback.
16:11:54 [JF]
LQ: slightly delayed, but have been reviewing the documents and suggesting some edits
16:12:17 [JF]
LQ: Shane and I had a brief call to discuss this, and Shane is making some progress
16:12:43 [JF]
SM: have been working on that. Discussion around creating a new component or not (being discouraged to do so)
16:13:00 [chaals]
ACTION: Liam to rationalise alt doc bugs to a single component/etc
16:13:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-302 - Rationalise alt doc bugs to a single component/etc [on Liam Quin - due 2015-02-05].
16:13:06 [JF]
LQ: confusion around last call and tentative req
16:13:44 [JF]
CM: sounds like review is imminent - that we should be actively looking at your work
16:13:59 [JF]
LQ: propose to add to next weeks agenda
16:14:04 [JF]
[nods around the table]
16:14:25 [chaals]
ACTION: shane to present alt doc changes
16:14:25 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-303 - Present alt doc changes [on Shane McCarron - due 2015-02-05].
16:14:40 [JF]
zakim, take up next item
16:14:40 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Action item review https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from janina]
16:15:02 [chaals]
close action-92
16:15:02 [trackbot]
Closed action-92.
16:15:29 [chaals]
action-273?
16:15:29 [trackbot]
action-273 -- Léonie Watson to Look more closely at https://www.w3.org/bugs/public/show_bug.cgi?id=13508 and add comments -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
16:15:29 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/273
16:15:31 [JF]
Action-273
16:15:31 [trackbot]
Action-273 -- Léonie Watson to Look more closely at https://www.w3.org/bugs/public/show_bug.cgi?id=13508 and add comments -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
16:15:31 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/273
16:15:41 [LJWatson]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13508
16:16:09 [JF]
LW: nothing left to be done - bug can be closed (and action item too)
16:16:15 [richardschwerdtfeger]
richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:16:28 [chaals]
close action-273
16:16:28 [trackbot]
Closed action-273.
16:16:32 [Zakim]
+Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:16:36 [JF]
LW: turns out support is quite reasonable - down to filing bugs at vendors, and not against spec
16:16:41 [chaals]
RESOLUTION: close bug 13508
16:17:09 [JF]
CM: asking Judy if Josh Meile has seen the MAUR
16:17:12 [chaals]
close action-295
16:17:12 [trackbot]
Closed action-295.
16:17:32 [JF]
JB: yes, know that Janina and Josh have also been introduced
16:17:42 [JF]
JS: yes have had some back-and-forth via email
16:17:50 [chaals]
action-296 due in 1 week
16:17:50 [trackbot]
Set action-296 Present substantive alt note bugs due date to 2015-02-05.
16:17:53 [JF]
he will get back to us
16:17:57 [JF]
Q+
16:18:08 [ShaneM]
q+ to ask about how long we need to wait
16:18:14 [chaals]
ack john
16:18:15 [JF]
JS: hope to have more news by next week
16:18:32 [chaals]
ack jf
16:19:10 [chaals]
ack sha
16:19:10 [Zakim]
ShaneM, you wanted to ask about how long we need to wait
16:19:11 [JF]
JB: Josh is ensuring that good guidance on Video Description - time is urgent(ish)
16:19:25 [JF]
SM: wondering how long we need to wait
16:19:45 [JF]
JB: initially took connecting Janina and Josh was 3 days
16:19:58 [JF]
if JF can connect with Josh quickly that would be good
16:21:05 [JF]
JS: we have a bit of time left still, so waiting on Josh is not a huge issue. M. Cooper and JS have agreed on a publishing schedule which may give us some extra time
16:21:33 [JF]
JS: going through a new process, so forcasting is still inaccurate
16:21:52 [JF]
CM: remaining action items on Chaals - delayed
16:22:04 [JF]
JB: can the TF help any?
16:22:25 [JF]
CM: there are 2 urgent ones, not huge, but will take some time still
16:22:42 [JF]
CM and another one that still has some time
16:22:45 [JF]
zakim, take up next item
16:22:45 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Work Plan http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/html-task-force" taken up [from janina]
16:23:34 [JF]
CM: sent out a message talking about current work plan, and it is not clear if that is what we will continue to work on
16:24:07 [JF]
CM: one is longdesc - question whether that needs to be revised - but does not feel like a high-priority work effort
16:24:25 [JF]
CM: html platform accessibility guide
16:24:36 [JF]
JS: can I give an update?
16:25:00 [JF]
CM: they don't appear to be topics we are focused on - not on calls nor via list
16:25:16 [JF]
by definition, if it is in HTML, it is open to the TF for review
16:25:49 [chaals]
s/html platform accessibility guide/"html to platform accessibility APIs" and "using aria in HTML" - do we work on them?
16:25:56 [JF]
JS: useful that it is reviewed here - we can create a category of PF horizontal reviews, but question the usefulness
16:26:00 [chaals]
q+
16:26:05 [chaals]
ack me
16:26:28 [JF]
JS: response from Steve that he is still working on using aria in HTML
16:26:50 [JF]
JS: may be a time lapsing issue - maybe some reminders needed
16:27:31 [JF]
CM: question is, should we be working on these things directly, or leave them out?
16:27:52 [JF]
CM: Steve F isn't on the call, but has suggested that he is happy working directly inside the HTML WG
16:27:55 [janina]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2014May/0062.html
16:28:08 [janina]
q+
16:28:17 [JF]
CM: we should coordinate with Steve - we can move items to this group easily enough
16:28:34 [JF]
CM: Stronger feeling that we NOT look at work outside of the HTML WG scope
16:29:07 [JF]
CM: this has impacts on things like Patent Policy, which matters
16:29:18 [JF]
CM: so we should not be taking on items out of scope
16:29:29 [JF]
JS: we have addressed this in the past (see URL)
16:29:46 [JF]
JS: not acceptable to PF that these be HTML only work efforts
16:30:13 [paulc]
q+
16:30:18 [chaals]
ack jan
16:30:22 [Judy_alt]
Judy_alt has joined #html-a11y
16:30:27 [Zakim]
+Cynthia_Shelly
16:31:03 [paulc]
ACTION-299?
16:31:03 [trackbot]
ACTION-299 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Work with richs and make sure html/tf know about plans for accessiiblity mapping documents. -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
16:31:03 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/299
16:31:04 [chaals]
ack pa
16:31:07 [JF]
JS: Steve has been working on this on his time, but work on html to platform accessibility APIs for example continues
16:31:19 [JF]
JS: notes that Rich has been working on the document as well
16:31:33 [JF]
PC: last time we discussed this, we had best advise HTML WG
16:31:37 [chaals]
q+
16:31:53 [JF]
PC: very little of the HTML work happening on this list or the HTML list
16:32:21 [JF]
PC: so suggest that if publication is coming, that perhaps someone else did it
16:32:25 [Judy_]
Judy_ has joined #html-a11y
16:32:29 [JF]
it would be good if PF did it directly
16:32:46 [JF]
CM: sounds like PF wants them on our work plan or a PF work plan
16:32:58 [Judy_]
q+
16:33:15 [JF]
CM: historically, PF has done work on these things - and so perhaps that is good - that PF continues to own this
16:33:19 [chaals]
ack me
16:33:22 [chaals]
ack ju
16:33:34 [JF]
JB: to +1 on coordination with PF
16:34:17 [JF]
CM: to return to list of topic items
16:34:29 [JF]
CM: the alt document - it seems that it belongs here for now
16:34:41 [JF]
CM: any dissent?
16:34:56 [Judy_]
q+
16:34:57 [JF]
DM: wondering if we need to talk to WCAG about this?
16:35:03 [JF]
CM: very important
16:35:16 [JF]
JB: strong interest in that as well from the co-chairs
16:35:35 [chaals]
ACTION: chaals to contact WCAG chairs and work out how to coordinate discussion on alt doc
16:35:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-304 - Contact wcag chairs and work out how to coordinate discussion on alt doc [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-02-05].
16:35:36 [JF]
JB: have been encouraging Andrew and Josh to attend these meetings, or add to their agenda
16:35:46 [chaals]
action-304 due in 4 days
16:35:46 [trackbot]
Set action-304 Contact wcag chairs and work out how to coordinate discussion on alt doc due date to 2015-02-02.
16:36:16 [JF]
CM: there are 4 items on the wish list
16:36:26 [JF]
Focus management (aka accesskey)
16:36:40 [JF]
transcripts, menus and footnotes
16:36:51 [Judy_]
[Judy emphasizes giving them a specific meeting or portion of meeting to attend should be helpful]
16:36:58 [JF]
are 4 topics we are looking at - none are really documents yet, but may become so
16:37:17 [JF]
CM: any there we should dismiss? anything that isn't there that we should be working on?
16:37:26 [David]
http://davidmacd.com/blog/html51-footnotes.html footnotes
16:37:37 [JF]
JS: thought we had created a list, but not sure
16:38:00 [JF]
CM: it maps to the things we agreed - or that some have volunteered to work on
16:38:12 [JF]
CM: think that date-pickers should be worked on
16:38:26 [JF]
CM: we may also may want to look at "common panels" work - leonie?
16:38:50 [JF]
LW: would be good to get some imput from the TF - input would be welcome
16:39:19 [JF]
CM: can assume that work will happen outside of TF and PF
16:39:29 [JF]
CM: both - it is straight HTML work
16:40:13 [JF]
CM: that gives us a sense of where we are headed - goal is to establish a scope for next 6 months of work
16:40:54 [JF]
CM: hoping for resolution from director on longdesc by no later than end of Feb.
16:41:01 [JF]
JB: seems to be on track
16:41:10 [chaals]
q?
16:41:17 [chaals]
ack ju
16:41:34 [JF]
zakim, take up next item
16:41:34 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Wishlist items http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist" taken up [from janina]
16:41:55 [JF]
CM: anyone want to talk about anything specific on this list?
16:41:56 [chaals]
q+
16:42:05 [janina]
q+ re date pickers
16:42:14 [chaals]
ack me
16:42:58 [JF]
CM: the ARIA implementation guidance piles loads of javascript examples for keyboard trapping - so with regard to date-pickers we need to involve the ARIA folk
16:43:11 [cyns]
cyns has joined #html-a11y
16:43:23 [Judy_]
s/seems to be on track/I am encouraging a timely resolution, and happy to convey your comment on that./
16:43:36 [JF]
CM: assertion is that lots of people are spending time making keyboard shortcuts with JS - not very efficient
16:43:48 [JF]
CM: wondering if anyone here can comment further
16:44:01 [JF]
JS: ARIA is moving away from specificity to generality
16:44:04 [cyns]
url?
16:44:24 [JF]
RS: the one area that is "most expensive" to support a11y is the keyboard implementation
16:44:40 [JF]
RRS: did fill gaps to make things focusable without putting into tab order
16:45:03 [chaals]
[keyboard implementation is problematic outside accessibility, too… we have been trying to deal with it in DOM for a decade or so without success]
16:45:13 [JF]
RS; what we lack is an easier way to do this - to make it easier for authors to not have to support keyboards all the time
16:45:36 [JF]
RS; we need a design pattern that is less dependant on modality, and focused on outcome
16:45:47 [cyns]
q+
16:46:20 [JF]
RS: in Indie UI WG there has been a hiccup as we've lost some people, but goal is to abstract a further to aid authors
16:46:41 [JF]
CM: there are bits and pieces gathering all over - task to track them down and house in one place
16:47:27 [JF]
CM: example component will show a demo of HTML, CSS, and a ton of JS built on top of jQuery - feels very heavy weight and is addressed to keyboard stuff
16:47:29 [chaals]
ack cyns
16:47:41 [JF]
CS: presume you are talking with Ben Peters
16:47:52 [JF]
CM: yes
16:48:33 [JF]
RS: It would be really good if we bring all efforts into one spot, as I beleive it ties into webapps
16:48:37 [cyns]
+1 to RS
16:48:39 [chaals]
ack jan
16:48:39 [Zakim]
janina, you wanted to discuss date pickers
16:48:45 [chaals]
[+1 to RS]
16:49:10 [JF]
JS: continue to be interested in date-pickers - don't want to work alone, but happy to bird-dog work effort
16:49:26 [chaals]
q+
16:49:36 [JF]
CM: was under impression that this wasn't a priority earlier, but seems that may no longer be the case
16:50:01 [JF]
JS: happy to be involved around that if we are moving it forward now
16:50:23 [chaals]
ack me
16:50:24 [JF]
LW: have been working on an internal doc around date-pickers, so can start working on that here
16:52:00 [chaals]
scribe: chaals
16:52:31 [paulc]
Is there a summary of the work items that Charles will add to the work statement?
16:52:38 [chaals]
q+
16:52:52 [JF_]
JF_ has joined #html-a11y
16:53:04 [JF_]
Q+
16:53:33 [JF_]
CM: asking Janina and Shane to coordinate with DAvid and DPub
16:53:54 [JF_]
SM: give to me, but give me 3 weeks at least
16:53:59 [chaals]
ACTION: shane to talk to davidM and Dpub, and present footnotes here (do we need to do more, …)
16:54:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-305 - Talk to davidm and dpub, and present footnotes here (do we need to do more, …) [on Shane McCarron - due 2015-02-05].
16:54:48 [JF_]
CM: paul asked a CfC on this? Anser is not yet, but closest progress indications is the Wish list items that have specific owners
16:55:15 [chaals]
action-305 due in 2 weeks
16:55:15 [trackbot]
Set action-305 Talk to davidm and dpub, and present footnotes here (do we need to do more, …) due date to 2015-02-12.
16:55:54 [JF_]
CM: the upshot is that we will talk about footnotes on this call in 2 weeks
16:56:03 [JF_]
CM: anything else?
16:56:18 [JF_]
Q+
16:56:23 [chaals]
ack me
16:56:47 [JF_]
JS: Canvas a11y progress has been impacted with the loss of Mark S.
16:57:07 [JF_]
JS: this has raised some concerns - working on an email to that effect now
16:57:41 [JF_]
Q+ to ask about anything happening at CSUN
16:58:04 [chaals]
ack jf
16:58:05 [Zakim]
JF_, you wanted to ask about anything happening at CSUN
16:58:11 [JF_]
JB: hope to have some more clarrifications
16:59:13 [JF_]
CM: nothing formal
16:59:17 [Zakim]
-Cynthia_Shelly
16:59:20 [Zakim]
-Sam
16:59:21 [paulc]
See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-canvas-api/2015JanMar/0000.html for Sam's email on lack of progress on Canvas API
16:59:52 [JF_]
PC: asking Judy a question about the Canvas API - are you saying that you will respond to the link I posted on IRC?
17:00:19 [JF_]
JB: believe there is a related thread, and I or someone will be responding on that
17:00:32 [JF_]
there are multiple threads, so will be responding
17:00:37 [JF_]
CM: ajourned
17:00:39 [Zakim]
-ShaneM
17:00:40 [Zakim]
-Leonie
17:00:45 [Zakim]
-Chaals
17:01:10 [JF_]
rrsagent, make logs public
17:01:20 [JF_]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-minutes.html JF_
17:01:22 [chaals]
[thanks john for scribing, thanks all]
17:02:10 [Zakim]
-paulc
17:02:19 [Zakim]
-janina
17:03:04 [JF_]
zakim, please part
17:03:04 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were ShaneM, [IPcaller], JF, paulc, janina, Leonie, Judy, Sam, Liam, David_MacDonald, Chaals, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Cynthia_Shelly
17:03:04 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:03:15 [JF_]
rrsagent, please part
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-actions.rdf :
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Liam to rationalise alt doc bugs to a single component/etc [1]
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-irc#T16-13-00
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shane to present alt doc changes [2]
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-irc#T16-14-25
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: chaals to contact WCAG chairs and work out how to coordinate discussion on alt doc [3]
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-irc#T16-35-35
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: shane to talk to davidM and Dpub, and present footnotes here (do we need to do more, …) [4]
17:03:15 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/29-html-a11y-irc#T16-53-59