19:49:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:49:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-aapi-irc
19:49:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
19:49:31 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:49:33 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
19:49:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
19:49:34 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19:49:34 <trackbot> Date: 27 January 2015
19:53:22 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
19:53:29 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
19:53:32 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:53:32 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
19:53:37 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:53:37 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:53:49 <clown> chair:  Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:54:03 <clown> agenda: this
19:54:12 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1569: (Joseph/Jason) Update re: status of section on AAPI differences.
19:54:18 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree.
19:54:25 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) How to map aria-describedy when CSS display:none.
19:54:32 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1546/1544: (David/Cynthia) How to expose rowgroup role for IA2 and UIA.
19:54:40 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for aria-posinset with only some explicit aria-setsize.
19:54:48 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1553/ISSUE-692: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="serachbox".
19:54:54 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1556/ISSUE-692: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="serachbox".
19:55:01 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1554/ISSUE-692: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="serachbox".
19:55:25 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1555/ISSUE-692: (James) AX API mapping for role="searchbox"
19:55:33 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1562/ISSUE-693: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="switch".
19:55:40 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1564/ISSUE-693: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch".
19:55:51 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1565/ISSUE-693: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="switch".
19:55:58 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1563/ISSUE-693: (James) AX API mapping for role="switch".
19:56:05 <clown> agenda+ Continue with ACTIONs/ISSUEs for core-aam 1.1: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
19:56:13 <clown> agenda+ be done.
19:56:38 <Zakim> + +644462aaaa
19:57:51 <clown> agenda?
19:59:30 <davidb> davidb has joined #aapi
19:59:35 <clown> agenda 6 = ACTION-1553/ISSUE-692: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="searchbox".
19:59:56 <clown> agenda 7 =  ACTION-1556/ISSUE-692: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="searchbox".
20:00:04 <Zakim> + +1.416.848.aabb
20:00:33 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
20:00:47 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
20:00:49 <davidb> Zakim, 1.416.848.aabb is David_Bolter
20:00:49 <Zakim> sorry, davidb, I do not recognize a party named '1.416.848.aabb'
20:00:51 <clown> agenda 8 = (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="searchbox".
20:00:56 <davidb> Zakim, aabb is David_Bolter
20:00:56 <Zakim> +David_Bolter; got it
20:00:59 <joanie> Zakim, who's here?
20:00:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joseph_Scheuhammer, +644462aaaa, David_Bolter, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa
20:01:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see davidb, Zakim, RRSAgent, clown, jkiss, joanie, trackbot
20:01:12 <clown> agenda ?
20:01:47 <clown> agenda 8 = ACTION-1554/ISSUE-692: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="searchbox".
20:01:51 <clown> agenda ?
20:02:08 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
20:02:37 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
20:02:37 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
20:03:02 <joanie> wait
20:03:35 <joanie> Zakim, aaaa is Jason_Kiss
20:03:35 <Zakim> +Jason_Kiss; got it
20:03:46 <joanie> scribe: joanie
20:05:32 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
20:05:32 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1569: (Joseph/Jason) Update re: status of section on AAPI differences." taken up [from clown]
20:05:38 <clown> action-1569?
20:05:39 <trackbot> action-1569 -- Jason Kiss to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2015-03-03 -- OPEN
20:05:39 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1569
20:06:19 <joanie> JK: In terms of W3C, I'm on a few working groups.
20:06:31 <joanie> JK: I am also the representative of the New Zealand government.
20:06:53 <joanie> JK: I agreed to help work on the Accessibility API mappings beginning several years ago.
20:07:15 <joanie> JK: I've been working on this document, but my time is constrained to four hours per week, though I wish it were more.
20:07:59 <joanie> JK: I don't have in depth knowledge of all the Accessibility APIs, but I'm happy to do whatever editorial and other such tasks I can.
20:08:03 <clown> issue-540?
20:08:03 <trackbot> issue-540 -- Should the UAIG have a section to describe the API differences -- open
20:08:03 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/540
20:08:25 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#accessible-name-and-description-mapping
20:08:39 <joanie> JK: The mappings for name and description sort of switched, with description being exposed as AX Help.
20:09:03 <joanie> JK: I raised this issue, and it was explained to me.
20:09:40 <joanie> JK: But I'm still wondering if the accessible name, description, help text should be explained further in the spec.
20:10:08 <joanie> JK: Another issue is how ATK and AT-SPI related to one another.
20:10:29 <joanie> JK: I noticed that a note has been added to the Core Mapping spec, which is cool.
20:10:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
20:10:48 <joanie> JK: I'm wondering what the scope of the note I'm working on should be.
20:11:10 <joanie> JK: I'm working on comparing the APIs and looking for any potential areas of confusion.
20:11:23 <joanie> JK: I'm also thinking there may be additional differences of interest.
20:11:43 <joanie> JK: But for me to work on this, I need more input from people with knowledge of the specific APIs.
20:12:02 <joanie> JK: Some of these differences have to do with how user agents implement or treat the APIs.
20:12:50 <joanie> JK: One example is Mozilla's use of the string variant.
20:13:05 <jkiss> use of a string value in VARIANT
20:13:08 <jkiss> in MSAA
20:13:25 <joanie> s/the string variant/a string valie in VARIANT in MSAA/
20:13:34 <jkiss> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html#use-of-msaa-variant-by-some-user-agents
20:14:00 <joanie> DB: I'm happy that Jason is looking into this, beyond just the mappings.
20:14:23 <joanie> JK: I just posted a link to the section in the Mapping document where this came up.
20:14:46 <joanie> JK: Cynthia said Mozilla is doing this to expose information when it cannot be exposed via other API.
20:15:16 <joanie> JS: I read they just use the IA2 role now; not accrole.
20:15:45 <davidb> Mozilla bug: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=798492
20:16:10 <joanie> JK: Another issue is the use of the DOM by ATs.
20:16:27 <joanie> JS: Certainly true of ChromeVox (use of the DOM).
20:16:40 <joanie> JK: That's broader than how the APIs work, however.
20:17:04 <joanie> JK: Hearing from others about interesting differences worth including in a Note would be good.
20:17:14 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:17:46 <joanie> JK: My interest is that I rely upon these documents and I suspect there would be others who look at these documents and would find it really helpful to have an explanation of the higher-level differences between these APIs.
20:17:52 <joanie> JS: Sounds ok to me.
20:17:52 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#accessible-name-and-description-mapping
20:18:17 <joanie> JS: The URL above is in the accessible name calculation document. And the column for AX API is rather lengthy.
20:18:51 <joanie> JK: I was looking at that. And for ATK/AT-SPI the document suggests that there is not an accessible name property.
20:19:07 <joanie> JS: My recollection is that you have to call an atk method
20:19:15 <joanie> atk_object_get_name()
20:19:44 <joanie> JS: There may be a property there, but you cannot see it.
20:20:00 <jkiss> https://developer.gnome.org/atk/unstable/AtkObject.html#AtkObject--accessible-name
20:20:21 <joanie> JK: There (above) is the accessible name property. It's a readwrite property.
20:20:32 <joanie> JK: I couldn't find that in AT-SPI
20:21:03 <clown> https://developer.gnome.org/libatspi/2.13/AtspiAccessible.html
20:22:06 <joanie> JD: I will verify that there is not a property for the name.
20:22:49 <joanie> JK: Perhaps that's more detailed than is worth it?
20:23:02 <joanie> JS: That's more of an AT Vendor question. Do you need that level of detail?
20:23:42 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
20:24:30 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:24:42 <cyns> zakim, microsoft has me
20:24:42 <Zakim> +cyns; got it
20:25:00 <clown> scribenick: clown
20:25:25 <clown> JD:  As an AT developer, I don't go to W3C specs, but I go to the AAPI documentation for that platform.
20:25:40 <clown> JK:  That makes sense, but it's still worthwhile to me.
20:25:55 <clown> JK:  I am not a browser implementor, nor an AT developer.
20:26:11 <clown> JK:  I could just go to all of the AAPI documentation and read it.
20:26:35 <clown> JK: Or, get a summary of the differences in the W3C documents.
20:26:58 <clown> JD:  I was more answering Joseph's question, "what does an AT vendor need to know"?
20:27:06 <clown> JD:  So, keep the audience in mind.
20:27:21 <clown> JK: Yes, sure.
20:28:03 <clown> JK: I could draft a section, and include the items I think belong.
20:28:16 <clown> JK:  And then see if others want to add info to that.
20:28:25 <clown> JK: And then bring it back to this group.
20:28:44 <clown> JD:  I think it's a good idea.
20:28:57 <clown> JD: I would be happy to read the draft.
20:28:57 <joanie> scribe: joanie
20:29:20 <joanie> JS: I think the next step is for you to draft it and put it Somewhere(tm).
20:29:22 <joanie> JK: Where?
20:29:40 <joanie> JK: I was thinking of adding it under Section 1.1 which discusses Accessibility APIs.
20:29:58 <joanie> JK: Like under a new 1.1.1. That states there are differences.
20:30:17 <joanie> JK: This would then follow with examples illustrating these differences.
20:31:22 <joanie> JK: I work this up. Should I added it to the latest draft in github?
20:31:33 <joanie> JS: I'd prefer you branch, either according to the action or the issue.
20:32:05 <Zakim> -David_Bolter
20:32:53 <joanie> JS: You decide a branch name based on the issue, action, or both, to ensure we know what the branch is about.
20:32:57 <joanie> JK: I'll do that.
20:34:50 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:34:50 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-842: (Cynthia) Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree." taken up [from clown]
20:34:57 <clown> action-842?
20:34:57 <trackbot> action-842 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a diagram to support section 1.2 A11Y vs DOM tree -- due 2014-12-16 -- OPEN
20:34:57 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/842
20:35:06 <joanie> JS: Cynthia, this action came due about two weeks ago.
20:35:26 <joanie> JS: This is from 2011.
20:35:39 <joanie> CS: So Michael Cooper and I made some progrss at TPAC.
20:35:51 <joanie> CS: I have a hand-drawn version that needs to be turned into another format.
20:36:01 <joanie> CS: I've not yet had an opportunity to do so.
20:36:19 <joanie> CS: Give me to April 1st or the closest to our meeting.
20:36:24 <joanie> JS: March 31st it is.
20:36:36 <joanie> CS: I took digital photos too. :)
20:37:32 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:37:32 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) How to map aria-describedy when CSS display:none." taken up [from clown]
20:37:38 <clown> action-1104?
20:37:38 <trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2015-01-14 -- OPEN
20:37:39 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
20:37:45 <joanie> JS: You got some emails about this (Cynthia).
20:37:50 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#accessible-name-and-description-mapping
20:38:19 <joanie> JS: That mapping table I brought up before (URL above), if you look at UIA, there's nothing explaining what you do if the objects are not in the accessibility tree.
20:39:05 <joanie> CS: This is an ongoing discussion. I need to follow up on this. Please give me two weeks.
20:39:10 <joanie> JS: February 10th.
20:39:42 <joanie> JK: You noted that UIA doesn't explain what to do if it's not in the accessibility tree. It seems to me that this is lacking for others as well.
20:39:49 <joanie> JS: Not for IA2/ATK.
20:40:13 <joanie> JS: So IA2 and ATK have both a way to provide the string and to provide the object.
20:40:22 <joanie> JS: UIA doesn't have a means to provide the string.
20:40:38 <joanie> CS: I'm trying to convince people we need this means.
20:40:42 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:40:42 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1546/1544: (David/Cynthia) How to expose rowgroup role for IA2 and UIA." taken up [from clown]
20:40:52 <clown> action-1546?
20:40:52 <trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
20:40:52 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
20:41:16 <clown> action-1544?
20:41:16 <trackbot> action-1544 -- Cynthia Shelly to Document rowgroup mappings for ie 11 for both uia express and uia -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
20:41:16 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1544
20:41:18 <joanie> JS: GNOME decided to not expose that role at all.
20:41:51 <joanie> CS: I think we do something with it.
20:41:59 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup
20:42:03 <joanie> JS: The current mappings are above.
20:42:10 <joanie> JS: Apple doesn't map it either.
20:42:27 <joanie> JS: And IA2 exposes it as role group, and UIA as group.
20:43:03 <joanie> RS: Firefox put it in there, but we're not sure why.
20:43:20 <joanie> RS: I don't think it's a show stopper, because I don't think the ATs pay much attention to it.
20:44:19 <joanie> CS: I haven't had a chance to look. Please give me a week.
20:44:22 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:44:22 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1373/ISSUE-441: (Cynthia) Test case for aria-posinset with only some explicit aria-setsize." taken up [from clown]
20:44:30 <clown> action-1373?
20:44:30 <trackbot> action-1373 -- Cynthia Shelly to Create a test case for when aria-posinset and aria-setsize are provided explicitly on some but not all elements. -- due 2014-12-16 -- OPEN
20:44:30 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1373
20:44:54 <joanie> CS: This one's harder. Give me four weeks.
20:45:06 <joanie> JS: It's writing a test case.
20:45:20 <joanie> CS: It's more than one test case; it's a bunch of different scenarios.
20:45:32 <joanie> CS: I know there are bugs, which is why I made that action in the first place.
20:45:47 <joanie> CS: Four weeks is CSUN, so why don't we make it three.
20:46:15 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:46:15 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1553/ISSUE-692: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="searchbox"." taken up
20:46:24 <joanie> JS: This is more of an update.
20:46:28 <clown> action-1553?
20:46:28 <trackbot> action-1553 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-01-21 -- CLOSED
20:46:28 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1553
20:46:46 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
20:46:47 <joanie> JS: We discussed this last week. We have a new role in ARIA: searchbox.
20:47:27 <joanie> JS: And we got the mappings for ATK/AT-SPI. And I managed to change the document to add the role, but only ATK/AT-SPI has a mapping. I still need them for the other platform mappings for this role.
20:47:50 <joanie> Zakim, agenda
20:47:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', joanie
20:48:23 <joanie> Zakim, agenda?
20:48:23 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:
20:48:24 <Zakim> 6. ACTION-1553/ISSUE-692: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="searchbox".
20:48:24 <Zakim> 7. ACTION-1556/ISSUE-692: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="searchbox".
20:48:24 <Zakim> 8. ACTION-1554/ISSUE-692: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="searchbox".
20:48:24 <Zakim> 9. ACTION-1555/ISSUE-692: (James) AX API mapping for role="searchbox" [from clown]
20:48:25 <Zakim> 10. ACTION-1562/ISSUE-693: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:48:26 <Zakim> 11. ACTION-1564/ISSUE-693: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:48:26 <Zakim> 12. ACTION-1565/ISSUE-693: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:48:26 <Zakim> 13. ACTION-1563/ISSUE-693: (James) AX API mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:48:26 <Zakim> 14. Continue with ACTIONs/ISSUEs for core-aam 1.1: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23 [from clown]
20:48:26 <Zakim> 15. be done. [from clown]
20:48:33 <clown> action-1554?
20:48:33 <trackbot> action-1554 -- Cynthia Shelly to Provide UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-01-21 -- OPEN
20:48:33 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1554
20:49:03 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 8
20:49:03 <Zakim> agendum 8. "ACTION-1554/ISSUE-692: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="searchbox"." taken up
20:49:27 <joanie> CS: Give me two weeks so that I can verify how to map it.
20:49:33 <joanie> CS: Is this a landmark?
20:49:45 <joanie> JS: No, search is a landmark.
20:49:50 <joanie> RS: This is an entry.
20:50:02 <joanie> JS: This is why ATK mapped it this way.
20:50:16 <joanie> JS: But as I understand it, they are going to expand their roles.
20:50:43 <joanie> RS: The easy way to do this is map it to a text field and then have ATs look at an attribute to see if it's a searchbox.
20:52:52 <joanie> (Group discusses object attributes)
20:53:42 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:53:42 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1553/ISSUE-692: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="searchbox"." taken up
20:53:47 <clown> action-1553?
20:53:47 <trackbot> action-1553 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Provide ATK/AT-SPI2 mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-01-21 -- CLOSED
20:53:47 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1553
20:54:00 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-switch
20:54:08 <joanie> Zakim, close item
20:54:08 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item', joanie
20:54:11 <joanie> Zakim, close item 6
20:54:11 <Zakim> agendum 6, ACTION-1553/ISSUE-692: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="searchbox"., closed
20:54:13 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:54:13 <Zakim> 7. ACTION-1556/ISSUE-692: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="searchbox".
20:54:20 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:54:20 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ACTION-1556/ISSUE-692: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="searchbox"." taken up
20:54:26 <joanie> Zakim, close item 7
20:54:26 <Zakim> agendum 7, ACTION-1556/ISSUE-692: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="searchbox"., closed
20:54:28 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:54:29 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:54:29 <Zakim> 9. ACTION-1555/ISSUE-692: (James) AX API mapping for role="searchbox" [from clown]
20:54:29 <Zakim> agendum 9. "ACTION-1555/ISSUE-692: (James) AX API mapping for role="searchbox"" taken up [from clown]
20:54:35 <joanie> Zakim, close item 9
20:54:35 <Zakim> agendum 9, ACTION-1555/ISSUE-692: (James) AX API mapping for role="searchbox", closed
20:54:36 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:54:37 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:54:37 <Zakim> 10. ACTION-1562/ISSUE-693: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:54:37 <Zakim> agendum 10. "ACTION-1562/ISSUE-693: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="switch"." taken up [from clown]
20:54:59 <joanie> JS: ATK/AT-SPI2 mapped it to toggle button.
20:55:08 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:55:08 <Zakim> agendum 10 was just opened, joanie
20:55:13 <joanie> Zakim, close item 10
20:55:13 <Zakim> agendum 10, ACTION-1562/ISSUE-693: (Joseph) ATK/AT-SPI mapping for role="switch"., closed
20:55:15 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:55:15 <Zakim> 11. ACTION-1564/ISSUE-693: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:55:15 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:55:16 <Zakim> agendum 11. "ACTION-1564/ISSUE-693: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch"." taken up [from clown]
20:55:45 <joanie> RS: I'd do this as an object attribute just like with searchbox.
20:55:50 <joanie> Zakim, close item 11
20:55:50 <Zakim> agendum 11, ACTION-1564/ISSUE-693: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch"., closed
20:55:52 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:55:52 <Zakim> 12. ACTION-1565/ISSUE-693: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:56:00 <clown> action-1563?
20:56:00 <trackbot> action-1563 -- James Craig to Provide AX API mapping for role="switch" -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
20:56:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1563
20:56:01 <joanie> CS: I'll take a look at this.
20:56:14 <joanie> Zakim, close item 12
20:56:14 <Zakim> agendum 12, ACTION-1565/ISSUE-693: (Cynthia) UIA mapping for role="switch"., closed
20:56:16 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:56:16 <Zakim> 13. ACTION-1563/ISSUE-693: (James) AX API mapping for role="switch". [from clown]
20:56:20 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:56:20 <Zakim> agendum 13. "ACTION-1563/ISSUE-693: (James) AX API mapping for role="switch"." taken up [from clown]
20:56:28 <joanie> Zakim, close item 13
20:56:28 <Zakim> agendum 13, ACTION-1563/ISSUE-693: (James) AX API mapping for role="switch"., closed
20:56:30 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:56:30 <Zakim> 14. Continue with ACTIONs/ISSUEs for core-aam 1.1: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23 [from clown]
20:56:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html
20:56:46 <joanie> TOPIC: Reviewing the SVG mapping document
20:57:00 <joanie> RS: The SVG accessibility taskforce has gone through this already.
20:57:12 <joanie> RS: I think it would be good if this group could look at it as well.
20:57:32 <joanie> JS: What sort of time frame?
20:57:44 <joanie> RS: It's a first working draft. I don't expect the comments to be thorough.
20:58:02 <joanie> RS: If you have anything significant, I'd love to hear it.
20:58:13 <joanie> RS: We want to get this one and the HTML one out in February.
20:58:37 <joanie> JK: I think it's possible. I'm unavailable for a couple of weeks in February, but I think the HTML document will be ready.
20:59:08 <joanie> JK: Some addition fixes to leverage off of the core, similar to what SVG is doing, might be useful.
20:59:17 <joanie> JS: I still object to the use of none.
20:59:30 <joanie> JS: SVG element, for example.
20:59:45 <joanie> s/element/animate element/
20:59:58 <joanie> JS: Do you mean the actual "none" role, or that there is no role?
21:00:13 <joanie> RS: There is a "none" role and a none (for no role).
21:00:28 <joanie> RS: animate doesn't get mapped at all.
21:00:48 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:01:03 <joanie> JK: It might be mistakenly linked to role="none"
21:01:07 <cyns> have to run to another meeting
21:01:43 <joanie> JK: Should it say "no role"?
21:01:53 <joanie> RS: It could, but it is essentially the same.
21:02:05 <joanie> JS: To me that means it's there for presentation purposes.
21:02:15 <joanie> JK: To avoid the ambiguity....
21:02:20 <joanie> RS: But it has the same effect.
21:03:21 <joanie> (Discussion of validity of mapping it to a pane)
21:03:38 <joanie> RS: I will raise an issue.
21:03:59 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:03:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:04:22 <joanie> JS: There is a possibility that something with role="none" can gain focus.
21:04:27 <joanie> RS: But that's an error.
21:04:44 <joanie> JS: It's an author error to put the presentational role on something which is focusable.
21:05:39 <joanie> RS: Every single drawing is persistent in memory. Can you imagine if you had an accessible object for every single item? The tree would be huge.
21:06:00 <joanie> JS: Could an author put a role on an SVG element so that an AT could walk through the parts of the diagram?
21:06:10 <joanie> RS: Yes, but you'd want to put it on an element.
21:06:28 <joanie> s/role/tab index/
21:07:20 <joanie> RS: It shouldn't be mapped, but if it becomes focusable then you have to?
21:07:24 <joanie> JS: Yes.
21:07:34 <joanie> RS: Then I have to put something in the spec because it's an error condition.
21:07:49 <joanie> RS: I still want this to be none, which means there should be no mapping.
21:08:18 <joanie> RS: I think what we have to do is have rules about mapping elements with tab index.
21:08:54 <joanie> RS: I will make an editorial note.
21:09:18 <joanie> (Group discusses the specifics)
21:09:30 <clown> <img role="presentaion">
21:09:44 <clown> <img role="presntation" tabindex="0">
21:10:03 <joanie> JS: the first of the above won't be mapped; the second will.
21:10:28 <joanie> JS: My read is that IF it needs to be in the accessibility tree, treat it as a pane. Otherwise don't worry about it.
21:11:06 <joanie> RS: I'm going to make a note and create an issue for my spec.
21:11:08 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#include_elements
21:11:22 <joanie> JS: The exceptions to not exposing it are described at the URL above.
21:12:04 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:12:11 <Zakim> -Jason_Kiss
21:12:14 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
21:12:15 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
21:12:27 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
21:12:28 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has ended
21:12:28 <Zakim> Attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, +644462aaaa, +1.416.848.aabb, Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, David_Bolter, Jason_Kiss, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, cyns
21:13:07 <joanie> Zakim, part
21:13:07 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:13:19 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:13:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:14:01 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
21:14:05 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:14:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:14:26 <joanie> present- Cynthia_Shelly
21:14:47 <joanie> present- +644462aaaa
21:14:52 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:14:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:15:16 <joanie> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
21:15:25 <joanie> present- cyns
21:15:41 <joanie> present- +1.416.848.aabb
21:15:44 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:15:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/27-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:16:12 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop