IRC log of i18n on 2015-01-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:58:14 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:58:14 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-irc
14:58:18 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #i18n
14:58:24 [aphillip]: trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:58:26 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:28 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 4186
14:58:28 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see I18N_WG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:29 [trackbot]: Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:58:29 [trackbot]: Date: 22 January 2015
14:58:31 [aphillip]: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2015Jan/0009.html
14:58:38 [aphillip]: Chair: Addison Phillips
14:58:42 [aphillip]: ScribeNick: aphillip
14:58:48 [aphillip]: Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:59:01 [aphillip]: rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:01 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:59:30 [matial]: matial has joined #i18n
14:59:48 [DennisTan]: DennisTan has joined #i18n
15:01:22 [r12a]: zakim, dial richard please
15:01:22 [Zakim]: ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:02:12 [aphillip]: Regrets: Leandro
15:02:45 [aphillip]: action: addison: check Mati's presence on the distribution list, etc.
15:02:45 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-391 - Check mati's presence on the distribution list, etc. [on Addison Phillips - due 2015-01-29].
15:02:50 [aphillip]: zakim, who is here?
15:02:50 [Zakim]: I18N_WG()10:00AM has not yet started, aphillip
15:02:51 [Zakim]: On IRC I see DennisTan, matial, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, David, Steve_Atkin, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, koji, xiaoqian, trackbot
15:02:55 [prashant]: prashant has joined #i18n
15:02:55 [aphillip]: zakim, this will be I18N
15:02:55 [Zakim]: ok, aphillip, I see I18N_WG()10:00AM already started
15:03:03 [aphillip]: zakim, who is here?
15:03:03 [Zakim]: On the phone I see +1.813.410.aaaa, ??P1, aphillip, +1.703.948.aabb, ??P12, Richard
15:03:05 [Zakim]: On IRC I see prashant, DennisTan, matial, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, David, Steve_Atkin, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, koji, xiaoqian, trackbot
15:03:06 [JcK]: JcK has joined #i18n
15:03:25 [DennisTan]: zakim, +1.703.948.aabb is me
15:03:26 [Zakim]: +DennisTan; got it
15:03:34 [aphillip]: zakim, ??P12 is matial
15:03:35 [Zakim]: +matial; got it
15:04:09 [aphillip]: zakim, +1.813.410.aaaa is Steve_Atkin
15:04:09 [Zakim]: +Steve_Atkin; got it
15:04:13 [David]: zakim, ??P1 is me
15:04:13 [Zakim]: +David; got it
15:04:27 [Zakim]: +JcK
15:04:59 [r12a]: agenda?
15:05:21 [aphillip]: Topic: Agenda
15:05:59 [Zakim]: +koji
15:06:13 [r12a]: agenda+ chinese layout progress
15:06:18 [aphillip]: Topic: Action Items
15:07:45 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-i18n-html-tech-char-20150127/Overview.html
15:08:07 [fsasaki]: [nothing new on my action items and still in a different call]
15:08:22 [aphillip]: action-365?
15:08:22 [trackbot]: action-365 -- Richard Ishida to Create tombstone version of "authoring techniques for xhtml & html internationalizatoin: characters and encodings 1.0" as the end-of-life of this document -- due 2014-11-07 -- OPEN
15:08:22 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/365
15:08:40 [aphillip]: richard: serious change, but not much of it :-)
15:09:08 [aphillip]: agenda+ tombstone of authoring techniques
15:09:29 [aphillip]: action-366?
15:09:29 [trackbot]: action-366 -- Richard Ishida to Identify categories non-controversial for line-breaking to support i18n-issue-316 in css3-text -- due 2014-11-07 -- OPEN
15:09:29 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/366
15:12:35 [aphillip]: close action-389
15:12:35 [trackbot]: Closed action-389.
15:12:55 [aphillip]: action-390?
15:12:55 [trackbot]: action-390 -- Richard Ishida to Forward issue-401 to indic list and shepherd response with appropriate elaboration as needed -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
15:12:55 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/390
15:12:59 [aphillip]: issue-401?
15:12:59 [trackbot]: issue-401 -- Clarify initial letter requirements and alignment points -- open
15:12:59 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/401
15:13:06 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:13:18 [somnath]: somnath has joined #i18n
15:13:35 [aphillip]: close action-390
15:13:35 [trackbot]: Closed action-390.
15:14:13 [aphillip]: Topic: Info Share
15:14:19 [DennisTan]: +q
15:14:21 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:14:28 [aphillip]: ack DennisTan
15:14:47 [fsasaki]: action-361?
15:14:47 [trackbot]: action-361 -- Felix Sasaki to Check status of idns in ml data best practices -- due 2014-11-06 -- OPEN
15:14:47 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/361
15:14:51 [r12a]: agenda?
15:15:02 [aphillip]: close action-361
15:15:03 [trackbot]: Closed action-361.
15:15:39 [aphillip]: DennisTan: raised an issue
15:15:42 [aphillip]: issue-402?
15:15:42 [trackbot]: issue-402 -- Broken copy/paste behavior with IRIs -- open
15:15:42 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/402
15:16:55 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/International/reviews/review-instructions
15:19:53 [prashant]: prashant has joined #i18n
15:20:25 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:20:53 [aphillip]: richard: program cmte for MLWeb workshop is actively seeking speakers
15:20:54 [Zakim]: + +91.81.30.33.aacc
15:21:02 [fsasaki]: q+
15:21:03 [aphillip]: ... we highly recommend this conference :-)
15:21:14 [aphillip]: ... please review call for participation
15:21:24 [r12a]: http://www.multilingualweb.eu/documents/2015-riga-workshop/2015-riga-cfp
15:21:34 [aphillip]: zakim, +91 is somnath
15:21:34 [Zakim]: +somnath; got it
15:21:50 [aphillip]: zakim, ack somnath
15:21:50 [Zakim]: I see fsasaki on the speaker queue
15:22:06 [aphillip]: zakim, ack fsasaki
15:22:06 [Zakim]: unmuting fsasaki
15:22:07 [Zakim]: I see no one on the speaker queue
15:22:25 [aphillip]: felix: workshop is only one day this time
15:22:33 [aphillip]: ... please submit as soon as possible
15:22:47 [aphillip]: ... there are other events besides the workshop
15:22:57 [aphillip]: ... other events are related to language technology
15:23:06 [aphillip]: ...e.g. MT, search, etc.
15:23:19 [aphillip]: ... submit as soon as possible for MLWeb, tho
15:23:48 [aphillip]: Topic: Review Radar
15:23:50 [aphillip]: https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
15:25:07 [aphillip]: steve: will review LDPF this coming week
15:25:10 [aphillip]: Topic: Project Radar
15:25:18 [aphillip]: https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar
15:26:28 [aphillip]: action: richard: follow up on lock-step publishing counter styles WG document to match CSS by checking on their status
15:26:28 [fsasaki]: q+
15:26:28 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-392 - Follow up on lock-step publishing counter styles wg document to match css by checking on their status [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-01-29].
15:27:46 [aphillip]: ack fsasaki
15:28:13 [aphillip]: koji: were discuss form localization
15:28:29 [fsasaki]: s/were/we/
15:28:54 [r12a]: https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar
15:29:09 [r12a]: https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Project_radar#Local_Formats_and_Locales
15:29:40 [fsasaki]: action-252?
15:29:40 [trackbot]: action-252 -- Felix Sasaki to Ping dita folks about contacting html5 about ruby progress -- due 2013-09-05 -- OPEN
15:29:40 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/252
15:29:42 [fsasaki]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2014Oct/0002.html
15:29:50 [aphillip]: felix: pinged dita folks
15:29:57 [aphillip]: ... above link is the email
15:30:16 [aphillip]: close action-252
15:30:16 [trackbot]: Closed action-252.
15:30:43 [fsasaki]: s/email/email with their response/
15:30:45 [aphillip]: agenda?
15:31:08 [aphillip]: Topic: Indic Layout Requirements Comments
15:31:39 [aphillip]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/67
15:32:25 [aphillip]: richard: somnath has put in some edits suggested in tracker
15:32:45 [aphillip]: ... and added additional examples of non-Hindi/non-Devanagari initial letters
15:33:02 [aphillip]: richard: want to discuss how best to make some changes
15:33:09 [aphillip]: ... perhaps I could edit and send to you?
15:33:36 [aphillip]: action: richard: send somnath proposed updates to the indic layout requirements document
15:33:36 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-393 - Send somnath proposed updates to the indic layout requirements document [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-01-29].
15:33:58 [aphillip]: richard: dave cramer needs technical information about how layout are handled
15:34:13 [aphillip]: somnath: have gathered information and need a little time to collate
15:34:21 [aphillip]: ... will send detailed requirements document
15:34:49 [aphillip]: action: somnath: send richard detailed requirements for initial letters in various Indic scripts
15:34:50 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-394 - Send richard detailed requirements for initial letters in various indic scripts [on Somnath Chandra - due 2015-01-29].
15:35:01 [aphillip]: issue-407?
15:35:01 [trackbot]: issue-407 -- Clarification of initial letter example ⓟ -- open
15:35:01 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/407
15:35:17 [aphillip]: richard: this issue is interesting because fixed already
15:37:49 [aphillip]: addison: schedule item for review by wg and include note that not reviewed by WG yet
15:37:58 [aphillip]: richard: somnath, working on two issues?
15:38:09 [aphillip]: somnath: give me 4-5 days time
15:38:24 [aphillip]: agenda?
15:38:30 [Zakim]: -somnath
15:38:43 [aphillip]: Topic: CSS Inline comments
15:38:49 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:38:59 [aphillip]: issue-408?
15:39:00 [trackbot]: issue-408 -- Centred value for intial-letter-align ⓟ -- open
15:39:00 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/408
15:39:09 [aphillip]: richard: went through a lot of newspapers in many scripts
15:39:13 [aphillip]: ... got examples
15:39:28 [aphillip]: ... many examples use an approach where they make a (colored) box
15:39:36 [aphillip]: ... with the drop cap or initial "letter" in that box
15:39:43 [aphillip]: ... alignment from edges of box
15:39:55 [aphillip]: ... not a scenario addressed by CSS
15:45:06 [aphillip]: ... way spec is currently written
15:45:11 [aphillip]: ... defines size of letter
15:45:22 [aphillip]: ... and the alignment with surrounding script
15:47:15 [aphillip]: addison: any objection to removing the ⓟ for provisional
15:47:21 [aphillip]: koji: different from ideograph?
15:47:32 [aphillip]: richard: yes, because additional space around character
15:47:45 [r12a]: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/15650930393/in/set-72157650248400402
15:48:20 [r12a]: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/16246010056/in/set-72157650248400402
15:48:37 [aphillip]: addison: illuminated cap
15:49:54 [r12a]: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/15652027313/in/set-72157650248400402
15:51:28 [r12a]: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ishida/16084392688/in/set-72157650248400402/
15:52:10 [aphillip]: JcK: looks like medieval illumination style in latin script
15:52:21 [aphillip]: addison: maybe forward to css?
15:53:37 [aphillip]: action: richard: forward issue-408 to CSS as non-provisional comment
15:53:37 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-395 - Forward issue-408 to css as non-provisional comment [on Richard Ishida - due 2015-01-29].
15:53:50 [aphillip]: Topic: UTR51 Comments
15:54:03 [aphillip]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/products/66
15:54:18 [aphillip]: issue-397?
15:54:18 [trackbot]: issue-397 -- Interaction of variation selectors and proposed emoji modifiers ⓟ -- open
15:54:18 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/397
15:54:19 [Zakim]: -fsasaki
15:54:21 [aphillip]: issue-405?
15:54:21 [trackbot]: issue-405 -- clarify embedded image vs. character (editorial) ⓟ -- open
15:54:21 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/405
15:56:47 [aphillip]: richard: no objections to these
15:56:53 [r12a]: agenda?
15:56:53 [aphillip]: addison: any other comments, please expedite
15:57:15 [aphillip]: zakim, take up agendum 2
15:57:15 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "tombstone of authoring techniques" taken up [from aphillip]
15:57:22 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:57:27 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/WD-i18n-html-tech-char-20150127/Overview.html
15:58:04 [JcK]: Re the CSS issue, and at the risk of channeling Muriel Cooper (or maybe Norbert Weiner) it seems to me that there is a meta-issue here as to when style-based page formatting ends and graphical pay layout art begins, i.e., where does one stop? Again, the medieval Latin manuscript example may be helpful as a way to think about this -- there were some very specific conventions there, but...
15:58:05 [JcK]: ...they differ by scribal school and over time and still allowed for illustrator discretion. The mind boggles about what would happen if we tried to devise an formalized typology and encoding for them. Perhaps Korean pages are is a lot more standardized in that regard, but the examples and discussion are not persuasive about that.
15:58:13 [DennisTan]: I have to drop off. Thank you. Bye
15:58:29 [Zakim]: -DennisTan
15:59:45 [r12a]: t is important to consider character encoding when producing documents, and further to understand how to choose and declare encodings, how and when to use character escapes, etc.
16:00:04 [r12a]: t is important to consider character encoding when producing documents, and to understand how to choose and declare encodings, how and when to use character escapes, etc.
16:00:19 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:00:27 [aphillip]: richard: have blessing to continue and publish next tuesday
16:00:30 [aphillip]: David: yes
16:00:33 [aphillip]: addison: yes
16:00:40 [matial]: yes
16:00:45 [r12a]: yes
16:00:48 [David]: +1
16:00:52 [JcK]: +1
16:01:00 [r12a]: zakim, who's here?
16:01:00 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Steve_Atkin, David, aphillip, matial, Richard, JcK, koji
16:01:02 [koji]: +1
16:01:02 [Zakim]: On IRC I see prashant, JcK, matial, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, David, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, koji, xiaoqian, trackbot
16:01:05 [Steve_Atkin]: Steve_Atkin has joined #i18n
16:01:08 [Steve_Atkin]: Steve +1
16:01:29 [aphillip]: chair: resolved to publish this as a tombstone
16:01:42 [aphillip]: agenda?
16:02:01 [aphillip]: zakim, take up agendum 1
16:02:01 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "chinese layout progress" taken up [from r12a]
16:02:03 [r12a]: https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Chinese_layout_prep
16:02:15 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:02:28 [aphillip]: richard: put together above after long call with beihang today
16:02:34 [aphillip]: ... main action will start in March
16:02:48 [aphillip]: ... tomorrow will talk with them about Han document
16:02:55 [aphillip]: ... getting FPWD ASAP
16:03:00 [aphillip]: ... charter is done
16:03:04 [aphillip]: ... mailing lists are done
16:03:09 [aphillip]: ... remainder in progress
16:03:13 [aphillip]: ... home pages soon
16:03:20 [aphillip]: addison: that's awesome
16:03:49 [aphillip]: Topic: AOB?
16:04:19 [Zakim]: -Steve_Atkin
16:04:23 [Zakim]: -David
16:04:24 [Zakim]: -aphillip
16:04:24 [Zakim]: -JcK
16:04:25 [Zakim]: -matial
16:04:32 [Zakim]: -koji
16:04:33 [JcK]: JcK has left #i18n
16:04:44 [aphillip]: RRSAgent, make minutes
16:04:44 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:05:32 [aphillip]: Present: Addison, Richard, Mati, Somnath, David, JcK, Felix, Steve, Dennis
16:05:37 [aphillip]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:05:37 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:05:44 [aphillip]: zakim, who is here?
16:05:44 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Richard
16:05:46 [Zakim]: On IRC I see RRSAgent, aphillip, r12a, fantasai, koji, xiaoqian, trackbot
16:06:20 [r12a]: zakim, drop richard
16:06:20 [Zakim]: Richard is being disconnected
16:06:21 [Zakim]: I18N_WG()10:00AM has ended
16:06:21 [Zakim]: Attendees were aphillip, Richard, DennisTan, matial, Steve_Atkin, David, JcK, koji, [IPcaller], fsasaki, +91.81.30.33.aacc, somnath
16:07:49 [aphillip]: Present+ Koji
16:07:58 [aphillip]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:58 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:08:46 [aphillip]: zakim, bye
16:08:46 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #i18n
16:08:52 [aphillip]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:08:52 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:09:02 [aphillip]: rrsagent, bye
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: addison: check Mati's presence on the distribution list, etc. [1]
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-irc#T15-02-45
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: richard: follow up on lock-step publishing counter styles WG document to match CSS by checking on their status [2]
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-irc#T15-26-28
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: richard: send somnath proposed updates to the indic layout requirements document [3]
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-irc#T15-33-36
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: somnath: send richard detailed requirements for initial letters in various Indic scripts [4]
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-irc#T15-34-49
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: richard: forward issue-408 to CSS as non-provisional comment [5]
16:09:02 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-i18n-irc#T15-53-37