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15:35:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:35:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:35:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
15:35:44 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:35:44 <trackbot> Date: 21 January 2015
15:36:06 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Jan/0014
15:36:13 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Jan/0014
15:36:22 <Steven> Regrets: Philip, Nick
15:36:26 <Steven> Chair: Steven
15:58:03 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:59:26 <alain> alain has joined #forms
16:00:51 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
16:00:58 <Zakim> +??P13
16:00:59 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
16:00:59 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
16:02:40 <Zakim> +ebruchez
16:03:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:03:16 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
16:03:16 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
16:03:35 <Steven> Topic: Section 10
16:03:35 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Processing_Model
16:03:35 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Jan/0013.html
16:04:13 <Steven> Erik: "1. Events dispatched to the `group` or `switch` element should
16:04:14 <Steven> probably also be dispatched to `dialog element. Search for
16:04:14 <Steven> "group|switch", "<group>, <repeat>", and "group or switch".
16:04:14 <Steven> "
16:05:48 <Steven> Erik: For example, erm, the MIP events, but I'm not sure about those, but the focus events.
16:06:08 <Steven> ... dialog is also a container
16:06:31 <Steven> Steven: Can I give you an action item?
16:06:35 <Steven> Erik: Sure.
16:06:50 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to analyse which events should also go to dialog
16:06:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1993 - Analyse which events should also go to dialog [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-01-28].
16:07:21 <Steven> Erik: "2. We dispatch xforms-link-exception if schemas cannot be loaded. I
16:07:21 <Steven> would like to make sure we are ok with dispatching a fatal event.
16:07:21 <Steven> "
16:07:38 <Steven> Erik: There are very few fatal events now. link-exception is one of them.
16:08:03 <Steven> ... Not sure if it is necessary for a fail on schemas
16:08:27 <Steven> Steven: The form will still work, just with less validation
16:09:20 <Steven> Erik: There is very little you can do on the other hand if the link fails, since it happens so early.
16:10:07 <Steven> ... there is little you can do to recover
16:10:27 <Steven> ... maybe disable the default processing.
16:10:49 <Steven> Steven: Catch it and cancel the failure?
16:10:56 <Steven> Erik: Exactly
16:11:17 <Steven> ... there are even examples of that.
16:11:22 <Steven> ... in the spec.
16:13:06 <Steven> Steven: So this should eb an error event instead?
16:13:15 <Steven> s/eb/be/
16:15:06 <Steven> Erik: Maybe we should make all exception events error events
16:17:52 <Steven> Steven: For link-exception on src on an instance, you could imagine a use-case for cancelling it.
16:19:56 <Steven> Erik: You could do that with a submission already.
16:20:02 <Steven> Steven: Oh yes.
16:20:45 <Steven> Erik: Though instance @src should be more like a submission, so you could still argue for cancelling link-exception
16:20:55 <Steven> ... I think link-error would be better
16:22:41 <Steven> ... in the past there was little we could do in the case of the exceptions.
16:23:01 <Steven> Steven: You're suggesting we make all exceptions error?
16:23:50 <Steven> Erik: Certainly for link-exception; there are binging, compute, version exceptions as well
16:24:41 <Steven> ... Maybe version-exception should still be an exception
16:25:35 <Steven> Steven: Who cares? Even if there's nothing that can be done, we can still say it is cancellable; no one will do it, but they wouldn't with an exception either.
16:25:54 <Steven> s/binging/binding/
16:27:36 <Steven> Steven: Shall we just make all exceptions errors?
16:27:41 <Steven> Erik: Sure.
16:27:49 <Steven> Alain: I'm happy with that.
16:28:16 <Steven> ACTION: Erik to make all exceptions into errors
16:28:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1994 - Make all exceptions into errors [on Erik Bruchez - due 2015-01-28].
16:28:43 <Steven> Erik: "3. An "XForms Full processor" still optionally supports the group,
16:28:44 <Steven> switch and repeat modules. Is this still current? Also, the dialog
16:28:44 <Steven> module is not mentioned under "12.4.2 XForms Full", and there is a
16:28:44 <Steven> reference to XForms Full under "10.5.6 The xforms-binding-exception
16:28:44 <Steven> Event".
16:28:44 <Steven> "
16:30:08 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#XForms_Full
16:31:04 <ebruchez> "for an XForms Full Processor, if encountering a group, switch, or repeat element when the associated module is not supported"
16:31:52 <Steven> Steven: Let's postpone this to when we dicuss section 12 on conformance.
16:32:02 <Steven> s/dic/disc
16:36:31 <Steven> Steven: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2015Jan/0016.html
16:36:31 <Steven> "10.3.4,
16:36:35 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_xforms-refresh_Event
16:36:35 <Steven> step 2, the wording seems odd. I propose we move the first sentence to the
16:36:35 <Steven> end, maybe in brackets.
16:36:35 <Steven> "
16:36:35 <Steven> Erik: I'm not sure what step 2 does here.
16:36:35 <Steven> Steven: It should even be there?
16:36:36 <Steven> Erik: Right, it's not part of refresh
16:41:12 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to remove steps 2 and 3 from 	http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_xforms-refresh_Event, and put them elsewhere
16:41:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1995 - Remove steps 2 and 3 from 	http://www.w3.org/markup/forms/wiki/xforms_2.0#the_xforms-refresh_event, and put them elsewhere [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-01-28].
16:41:53 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to remove steps 2 and 3 from http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_xforms-refresh_Event, and put them elsewhere
16:41:53 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to remove steps 2 and 3 from 10.3.4, and put them elsewhere
16:41:53 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to remove steps 2 and 3 from 10.3.4 and put them elsewhere
16:41:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1996 - Remove steps 2 and 3 from http://www.w3.org/markup/forms/wiki/xforms_2.0#the_xforms-refresh_event, and put them elsewhere [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-01-28].
16:41:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1997 - Remove steps 2 and 3 from 10.3.4, and put them elsewhere [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-01-28].
16:41:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1998 - Remove steps 2 and 3 from 10.3.4 and put them elsewhere [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-01-28].
16:42:42 <Steven> Steven: "10.3.6
16:42:42 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_xforms-next_and_xforms-previous_Events
16:42:42 <Steven> The last section on Navigation. Is this informative? Should it be there.
16:42:42 <Steven> Should it be a note?
16:42:42 <Steven> "
16:42:57 <Steven> Erik: I agree. HTML already has a definition
16:44:32 <Steven> Steven: We could delete everything from "The following describes a possible technique"
16:44:32 <Steven> Erik: We do define @navindex
16:45:25 <Steven> Steven: Otherwise we turn that section into an informative Note?
16:46:13 <Steven> Erik: It's a lot of text for a suggestion...
16:46:21 <Steven> Steven: Let's just delete it.
16:47:09 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to delete Navigation example section
16:47:09 <Steven> Erik: What about @navindex
16:47:09 <Steven> s/x/x?/
16:47:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1999 - Delete navigation example section [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-01-28].
16:48:13 <Steven> Erik: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Common_attribute_and_content_sets
16:50:28 <Steven> Erik: I hadn't realise navindex and accesskey are MUSTs
16:51:51 <Steven> Steven: That section is already wrong, because it says that the default navigation order is specified in section 10...
16:52:56 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to investigate navindex and accesskey in http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#Common_attribute_and_content_sets
16:52:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2000 - Investigate navindex and accesskey in http://www.w3.org/markup/forms/wiki/xforms_2.0#common_attribute_and_content_sets [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-01-28].
16:53:05 <Steven> Steven: 10.4.12
16:53:05 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_DOMActivate_Event
16:53:05 <Steven> Is this really only a notification event?
16:53:05 <Steven> "
16:53:33 <Steven> Steven: So what causes the action that DOMActivate is announcing?
16:56:35 <Steven> ... If I write an action that sends a DOMActivate to a submit button, will the button get activated?
16:57:43 <Steven> Erik: Only if you have a handler.
16:59:12 <Steven> Erik: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/XForms_2.0#The_submit_Element
16:59:39 <Steven> "Implementation Requirements: The default action for event DOMActivate is to dispatch event xforms-submit "
16:59:42 <Steven> Steven: Oh! That's wrong!
17:01:06 <Zakim> -Steven
17:01:06 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:01:06 <Zakim> -ebruchez
17:01:07 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
17:01:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Steven, ebruchez, [IPcaller]
17:04:05 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to research whether DOMActivate should have a default action...
17:04:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2001 - Research whether domactivate should have a default action... [on Steven Pemberton - due 2015-01-28].
17:04:59 <Steven> Topic: Next week
17:04:59 <Steven> Steven: Continue section 10, and start on section 11.
17:04:59 <Steven> zakim, who is here?
17:04:59 <Steven> Present+Alain
17:05:00 <Zakim> apparently IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended, Steven
17:05:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot
17:05:00 <Steven> trackbot, help?
17:05:00 <trackbot> Please see <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
17:05:00 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
17:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/21-forms-minutes.html Steven
17:09:22 <Steven> Steven has joined #forms
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