15:58:41 RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:58:41 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-html-a11y-irc
15:58:43 RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:43 Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:58:45 Zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:45 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
15:58:46 Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:58:46 Date: 15 January 2015
15:59:13 zakim, who's here?
15:59:13 WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:59:15 On IRC I see RRSAgent, chaals, newtron, IanPouncey, liam, janina, MarkS, sivoais, cabanier, hober, joanie, trackbot
15:59:19 paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:59:21 zakim, this is wai
15:59:21 wai matches both WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM and WAI_MATF()11:00AM, chaals
15:59:29 zakim, this is pf
15:59:29 ok, chaals; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:59:30 ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
15:59:35 zakim, what is the code?
15:59:35 the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
15:59:49 zakim, who's on the phone?
15:59:49 On the phone I see David_MacDonald, ??P7
15:59:58 +[Microsoft]
16:00:01 zakim, ??P7 is me
16:00:01 +janina; got it
16:00:03 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:00:03 +paulc; got it
16:00:06 rubys has joined #html-a11y
16:00:10 +[IPcaller]
16:00:16 zakim, [ip is me
16:00:16 +chaals; got it
16:00:21 zakim, who is here?
16:00:21 On the phone I see David_MacDonald, janina, paulc, chaals
16:00:23 On IRC I see rubys, ShaneM, paulc, Zakim, RRSAgent, chaals, newtron, IanPouncey, liam, janina, MarkS, sivoais, cabanier, hober, joanie, trackbot
16:00:25 +ShaneM
16:00:45 Chair: chaals
16:00:46 agenda+ agenda additions?
16:00:46 agenda+ keyboard discussions - where to continue
16:00:46 agenda+ bug 27787 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27787
16:00:46 agenda+ wishlist review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist
16:00:46 agenda+ action item review
16:00:46 agenda+ keyboard accessibility
16:00:51 +Joanmarie_Diggs
16:01:03 +Sam
16:02:27 aardrian has joined #html-a11y
16:02:49 David_ has joined #html-a11y
16:02:51 agenda?
16:03:25 +Adrian_Roselli
16:03:53 zakim, who is here?
16:03:53 On the phone I see David_MacDonald, janina, paulc, chaals, ShaneM, Joanmarie_Diggs, Sam, Adrian_Roselli
16:03:55 On IRC I see David, aardrian, rubys, ShaneM, paulc, Zakim, RRSAgent, chaals, newtron, IanPouncey, liam, janina, MarkS, sivoais, cabanier, hober, joanie, trackbot
16:04:37 regrets+ MarkS
16:05:04 +Liam
16:05:04 +JF
16:05:08 zakim, take up item 2
16:05:08 agendum 2. "keyboard discussions - where to continue" taken up [from chaals]
16:05:26 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
16:05:43 +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:05:49 CMN: Talked to Robin who supported making a keyboard access module…
16:05:54 test
16:05:57 Ok
16:06:15 … also suggested we have the discussiuons directly in HTML-WG.
16:06:26 JF has joined #html-a11y
16:06:34 JS: Troubles me to hear this characterised as a keyboard discussion, I think we mean more.
16:06:44 JS:We should a short name that goes beyond keybaord
16:06:52 Got it chaals
16:06:55 … have the accesskey-related stuff, also mentioned to revisit tabindex…
16:07:02 Exactly what sections of HTML5 are we talking about clustering together into a module?
16:07:05 q+
16:07:20 ack me
16:07:46 +[IPcaller]
16:07:47 CM: We are following accesskey
16:07:59 Zakim, IPcaller is me
16:07:59 +IanPouncey; got it
16:08:08 There are things we need to do with Accesskey
16:08:26 Accesskey is in the section http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/editing.html#assigning-keyboard-shortcuts
16:08:39 7.5 Assigning keyboard shortcuts
16:08:43 CM: discussions about tabindes... in materials in there it points out that tabindex should not be used in isoloation
16:08:57 Q+
16:09:15 Things that affect focus ...
16:09:24 The most common is tab...
16:09:32 ack jf
16:09:38 And 7.4.1 Sequential focus navigation and the tabindex attribute http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/editing.html#sequential-focus-navigation-and-the-tabindex-attribute
16:09:44 JF: concerned about focus managemnt.
16:10:00 related... focus has to visible
16:10:35 CM: let's not tweak working in 12 people group
16:10:54 CM: its about moving around rather than finding where we've moved around
16:11:26 Section 7.4 Focus http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/editing.html#focus includes the sub-section on tabindex
16:11:38 CM: useful to gather information on TF, but others are stakeholders... we're all HTML... to be TF memebers
16:12:49 CM:concerns are bugs in wiki and wishlist... standard way... would be to work in TF, maining list, and when we come up a replacement module... then throw it fence...
16:13:09 CM: alternative, use HTML WG list instead of TF list
16:13:37 RS: that's fone with me, will get more HTML participation
16:13:40 me +1 with Shane
16:13:48 s/fone/fine/
16:13:56 s/fone/fine
16:14:12 s/me +1 with Shane/
16:14:36 Zakim, next topic
16:14:36 I don't understand 'next topic', David
16:14:37 zakim, take up item 3
16:14:37 agendum 3. "bug 27787 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27787" taken up [from chaals]
16:14:59 ACTION: chaals to set the focus management discussion up in HTML WG
16:14:59 Created ACTION-298 - Set the focus management discussion up in html wg [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-01-22].
16:16:07 CM: We have a bug and no triage TF... Image map focus os a mess in most UA's.
16:16:20 JS: option 3 in bug
16:16:26 JF: Option 3
16:17:11 CM: I suggest same solution as rodney
16:18:59 CM:IN IE presented links both,in Blink you get the image map in middle of page, on FF first time you reach image you get links first time but not again... I haven't test this
16:19:18 JF: agree its a bug... is it a bug against spec of browsers?
16:19:35 CM: spec doesn't say when they have to do it
16:20:06 q+
16:20:15 ack me
16:20:28 Q+
16:20:45 JS: can we come up with another solution for image maps to skip over it
16:21:16 JS: you can treat it as a group, jump into it for details or skip over it
16:21:52 CM: My old browser 10 yeats ago let me jump over... we could hand it off to browsers
16:22:09 -David_MacDonald
16:22:38 just got dropped
16:23:02 scribe: chaals
16:23:19 CMN: HTML doesn't like telling browsers what to do.
16:23:20 +David_MacDonald
16:23:37 … we can decide either way, but should be aware of the issues. We can also add a best prcatice note.
16:23:48 back... got dropped...
16:23:56 JF: Seems like this is editorial, we could suggest some simple changes. Don't know if we need to test in browsers.
16:24:18 scribe: David
16:24:24 JS: Not trying ot get a must, just convey that there is a real value in not being forced to tab through everything linearly and groups are helpful where they make sense.
16:24:50 q+
16:24:55 ack jf
16:24:57 acjk j
16:25:00 ack me
16:25:34 q+
16:25:37 CM: FF decided not to repeat the set of links in an image map...
16:26:34 q+ To comment about the Gecko behavior
16:26:42 Iam: Need more generic solution
16:26:48 ack joa
16:26:48 joanie, you wanted to comment about the Gecko behavior
16:26:49 ack Ian
16:27:00 +Cynthia_Shelly
16:27:03 Ian: Need more generic solution
16:27:21 Joanie:Trident behaviour makes most sense
16:27:30 zakim, close this agendum
16:27:30 agendum 3 closed
16:27:31 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:27:31 1. agenda additions? [from chaals]
16:27:37 zakim, close agendum 1
16:27:37 agendum 1, agenda additions?, closed
16:27:38 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:27:38 2. keyboard discussions - where to continue [from chaals]
16:27:46 zakim, close agendum 2
16:27:46 agendum 2, keyboard discussions - where to continue, closed
16:27:47 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:27:47 4. wishlist review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist [from chaals]
16:28:13 CM: Wishlist
16:28:35 CM: focus management, panels and panelset
16:29:11 CM: please look at it and consider kicking them along....
16:30:17 DM: Footnotes
16:30:22 JF: I'll join you
16:31:46 JS: Groupable or escapable structures in focus management discussion
16:31:53 zakim, close this agendum
16:31:53 I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
16:32:03 zakim, close agendum 4
16:32:03 agendum 4, wishlist review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist, closed
16:32:04 Zakim, close this item
16:32:05 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:32:05 5. action item review [from chaals]
16:32:05 I do not know what agendum had been taken up, David
16:32:12 zakim, take up item 5
16:32:12 agendum 5. "action item review" taken up [from chaals]
16:32:57 -Liam
16:33:04 -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open open action items
16:33:40 action-92?
16:33:40 action-92 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Write a high level write up of the use of elements to annotate the canvas subtree to support caret, spell and grammar checkers -- due 2014-12-31 -- OPEN
16:33:40 http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/92
16:34:23 RS: Action 92 highlevel canvas, grammar and spell checker, must be old...plan was that we were not going to dk that in cnavas...
16:35:04 CM: there is an editing task force, but they are not working on Cnavas, not expecting people to do that... but some people are doing text in canvas....
16:36:05 action-92, due in 2 weeks
16:36:17 action-92 due in 2 weeks
16:36:17 Set action-92 Write a high level write up of the use of elements to annotate the canvas subtree to support caret, spell and grammar checkers due date to 2015-01-29.
16:36:25 RS: do we want to do this in the webapp WG... I can do that, not today... be happy with 10 lines... I can probably do it next week... got SVP APPI mappings, HTML API mappings, we are slammed...
16:36:59 RS: post to the TF, HTML, Editing...?
16:37:27 CM: I'll find it and post it and check off you action item
16:38:21 action: David and John Foliot to update WIKI HTML next list http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist,
16:38:21 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dbolter, dmacdona).
16:38:42 close action-293
16:38:42 Closed action-293.
16:38:46 close action-228
16:38:46 Closed action-228.
16:38:54 dmacdona David and John Foliot to update WIKI HTML next list http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist,
16:39:17 action-226 on chaals
16:39:21 Action:David and John Foliot to update WIKI HTML next list http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/51wishlist, for footnotes
16:40:09 zakim, close this item
16:40:09 agendum 5 closed
16:40:10 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:40:10 6. keyboard accessibility [from chaals]
16:40:15 zakim, take up item 6
16:40:15 agendum 6. "keyboard accessibility" taken up [from chaals]
16:40:20 agenda?
16:41:19 Q+
16:42:03 q+
16:42:20 ack jf
16:42:23 JS: WAI coordination, INDIE UI, ARIA, and HTML overlap need to sort out
16:43:31 JF: Not a fan of accesskey, they are fundamentally broken... tons of issues around them in the wild... perhaps we should stop, and look back and start clean and fresh
16:43:57 CM: i'm going to next WAI cordination to talk about this, to invite people to join discussion
16:45:02 CM: SVG, I haven't talked to them yet... I see bad implementations
16:45:22 CM: I'm biased to not inventing new things, rather fix the old one
16:46:36 CM: Rather than we tell each other not to work on stuff but let's individually work on our stuff and have proposals and see which one emerges
16:47:20 CM: let's break early and update the wiki..
16:48:16 Is that a First Public Working Draft?
16:48:25 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html
16:48:39 RS: we are looking to release public work draft of api mapping guides in February...http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/html-aam/html-aam.html
16:48:39 Which WG(s) are publishing the document(s)?
16:48:49 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html
16:49:05 RS: SVG ttp://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/svg-aam/svg-aam.html
16:49:15 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html
16:49:30 RS: http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html
16:49:41 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html
16:49:52 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html
16:50:20 i/Which WG/Topic: Aria Accessibility Mapping - coming up for publication, expect review requests
16:50:20 "This document was developed by and with the approval of the HTML Accessibility Taskforce, a joint task force of the Protocols and Formats Working Group and the HTML Working Group."
16:50:47 q+
16:50:53 q-
16:51:00 ack pa
16:52:16 ACTION: chaals to work with RichS and make sure HTML/TF know about plans for accessiiblity mapping documents.
16:52:16 Created ACTION-299 - Work with richs and make sure html/tf know about plans for accessiiblity mapping documents. [on Charles McCathie Nevile - due 2015-01-22].
16:52:30 PaulC: It's really a heartbeat
16:52:52 JS: Not really because it's new, and has new name etc...
16:53:03 JS: We have lot's of st
16:53:24 JS: lot's to do before first working group
16:53:50 CM: always good to notify people as early as possible
16:54:15 PAULC: It says 11
16:54:40 s/11/1.1
16:54:58 JS: that's a mistake
16:55:07 -Cynthia_Shelly
16:55:13 -chaals
16:55:19 -Adrian_Roselli
16:55:23 rrsagent, generate the minutes
16:55:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-html-a11y-minutes.html paulc
16:55:28 -Joanmarie_Diggs
16:55:29 -ShaneM
16:55:30 -Sam
16:55:30 -IanPouncey
16:55:32 -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:55:40 Zakim, list attendees
16:55:40 As of this point the attendees have been David_MacDonald, janina, paulc, chaals, ShaneM, Joanmarie_Diggs, Sam, Adrian_Roselli, Liam, JF, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, IanPouncey,
16:55:43 ... Cynthia_Shelly
16:55:44 -janina
16:55:45 -paulc
16:55:50 -JF
16:55:54 zakim, bye
16:55:54 leaving. As of this point the attendees were David_MacDonald, janina, paulc, chaals, ShaneM, Joanmarie_Diggs, Sam, Adrian_Roselli, Liam, JF, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, IanPouncey,
16:55:54 Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:55:55 richardschwerdtfeger has left #html-a11y
16:56:07 rrsagent, make log public
16:56:19 rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-html-a11y-minutes.html David
16:56:57