17:28:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:28:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-aria-irc
17:28:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
17:28:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
17:28:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:28:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
17:28:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
17:28:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:28:12 <trackbot> Date: 15 January 2015
17:28:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
17:28:45 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG()12:30PM has now started
17:28:52 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:29:53 <clown> clown has joined #aria
17:29:58 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
17:31:09 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:31:20 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:31:20 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:31:26 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:31:26 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:31:59 <Zakim> +??P29
17:32:02 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0044.html
17:33:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0044.html
17:35:11 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
17:35:31 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #aria
17:35:57 <Zakim> +[Apple]
17:37:07 <MichaelC> ack me
17:38:04 <jcraig> scribe: jcraig
17:38:06 <jcraig> agenda?
17:38:14 <jcraig> issue-688?
17:38:15 <trackbot> issue-688 -- Aria-hidden=false is ambiguous regarding inheritance to descendant elements -- raised
17:38:15 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/688
17:38:23 <jcraig> agenda+ issue-688
17:38:35 <jcraig> RS: Janina travelling
17:38:49 <jcraig> RS: SVG2 and @@@ working drafts in Feb
17:39:18 <jcraig> sending to SVG-a11y task force to get feedback on the draft
17:39:33 <jcraig> Topic: Matt King proposal on landmarks
17:39:35 <clown> action-1440?
17:39:35 <trackbot> action-1440 -- Joanmarie Diggs to landmarks section uses "region of page" in prose even though "region" is not a landmark -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
17:39:35 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1440
17:39:47 <jcraig> (Matt not on call)
17:39:53 <jcraig> action-1548?
17:39:53 <trackbot> action-1548 -- Léonie Watson to Write revised proposal for aria-current based on today’s meeting for issue 587 -- due 2015-01-08 -- OPEN
17:39:53 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1548
17:40:01 <jcraig> (leonie not on call)
17:40:26 <jcraig> action-1293
17:40:26 <trackbot> action-1293 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add aria-colindex to role gridcell and aria-rowindex to role row -- due 2015-01-15 -- OPEN
17:40:26 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1293
17:40:37 <clown> action-1293?
17:40:37 <trackbot> action-1293 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add aria-colindex to role gridcell and aria-rowindex to role row -- due 2015-01-15 -- OPEN
17:40:37 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1293
17:41:05 <jcraig> JD: ongoing mailing list thread
17:41:16 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0049.html
17:41:24 <jcraig> want to wait until that thread settles
17:41:55 <jcraig> issue-638?
17:41:55 <trackbot> issue-638 -- Generic container roles for things like div/span… -- open
17:41:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/638
17:42:10 <jcraig> action-1342?
17:42:10 <trackbot> action-1342 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Patch issue-523: searchbox role which is a subrole of textbox/textfield -- due 2015-01-15 -- CLOSED
17:42:10 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1342
17:42:46 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#searchbox
17:43:12 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
17:43:19 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
17:45:15 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:45:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-aria-minutes.html jamesn
17:45:57 <jcraig> add related "textbox"
17:46:16 <jcraig> remove prose reference to html:input[type=search]
17:50:01 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#role_definitions
17:50:57 <jcraig> tree
17:50:57 <jcraig> A type of list that may contain sub-level nested groups that can be collapsed and expanded.
17:51:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> proposal: A form of textbox intended to specify search criteria
17:51:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> proposal: A type of textbox intended to specify search criteria
17:53:04 <jcraig> and textbox should start "A type of input…"
17:53:23 <clown> issue-523
17:53:23 <trackbot> issue-523 -- searchbox/searchfield role which is a subrole of textbox/textfield -- closed
17:53:23 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/523
17:53:29 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:54:15 <Zakim> + +49.322.110.8.aaaa
17:54:37 <jcraig> Zakim, aaaa is Stefan
17:54:37 <Zakim> +Stefan; got it
17:55:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Action 1342 is completed
17:55:05 <jcraig> agenda?
17:55:17 <MichaelC> ack me
17:55:45 <Zakim> + +1.703.978.aabb
17:55:56 <jcraig> action: jcraig to merge issue-688 branch
17:55:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1559 - Merge issue-688 branch [on James Craig - due 2015-01-22].
17:56:17 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
17:56:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: Implementation guide group liked James changes to aria-hidden with issue 688
17:56:28 <jcraig> trackbot, associate action-1559 with issue-688
17:56:28 <trackbot> action-1559 (Merge issue-688 branch) associated with issue-688.
17:56:32 <jamesn> zakim, who is on the call?
17:56:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper (muted), Bryan_Garaventa, [Apple], James_Nurthen, Stefan, +1.703.978.aabb
17:56:39 <jcraig> topic: switch role
17:56:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1392
17:56:58 <clown> action-1392
17:56:58 <trackbot> action-1392 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add a switch role to aria 1.1 in response to issue-446 -- due 2015-01-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:56:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1392
17:57:02 <fesch> zakim I am 1703
17:57:12 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Fred_Esch
17:57:12 <Zakim> +Fred_Esch; got it
17:57:43 <jcraig> text
17:57:43 <jcraig> [ARIA 1.1] An element whose entire subtree should be exposed to accessibility APIs as plain text.
17:57:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#switch
17:58:02 <jcraig> switch (role)§
17:58:03 <jcraig> A toggleable input that has two possible values: true or false.
17:58:04 <jcraig> The aria-checked attribute of a switch indicates whether the input is on (true) or off (false). The mixed value is not supported, and user agents must treat a mixed value as equivalent to false for this role.
17:58:05 <jcraig> NOTE
17:58:06 <jcraig> A switch provides approximately the same functionality as a checkbox and toggle button, but makes it possible for assistive technologies to present the widget in a fashion consistent with its on-screen appearance.
17:59:06 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:59:19 <jcraig> Suggested change: A toggleable input that has two possible values: true or false.
17:59:22 <jcraig> To:
18:00:22 <jcraig> A type of checkbox that that represents on/off values, as opposed to checked/unchecked values. See related checkbox.
18:01:46 <Zakim> +Matt_King
18:03:12 <jcraig> (shirking my scribe responsibilities)
18:03:36 <clown> <div role="switch" aria-label="On" aria-checked="true">
18:03:37 <joanie> q+ to point out ETS will like this, but to make this a separate action to consider the property
18:03:56 <jcraig> Stefan: what about customizable values for on/off, true/false, etc. for switch: foo/bar
18:04:08 <jcraig> JC: maybe aria-valuetext
18:04:40 <joanie> q-
18:06:00 <jcraig> JC: propose to the list?
18:08:34 <clown> <div role="switch" aria-checked="true">Mail</div>
18:08:41 <jcraig> stefan: example accept/reject values on a toggle
18:08:51 <clown> <div role="switch" aria-checked="true">Male</div>
18:09:02 <jcraig> maybe a new "toggle" role?
18:09:25 <clown> <div role="switch" aria-checked="false">Femail</div>
18:09:45 <jcraig> mail/femail? hah
18:10:05 <clown> <div role="switch" aria-checked="false">Female</div>
18:10:27 <jcraig> MK: most valuable in mobile, where space is contsrained
18:10:39 <jcraig> s/contsrained/constrained/
18:11:23 <jcraig> RS: assistive tech could speak these valuetext on other controls (like Mark H demoed at TPAC)
18:12:23 <mattking> mattking has joined #aria
18:12:41 <jcraig> action: Stefan to email list with discussion of on/off value labels (maybe valuetext?) and extending value descriptions to other controls
18:12:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1560 - Email list with discussion of on/off value labels (maybe valuetext?) and extending value descriptions to other controls [on Stefan Schnabel - due 2015-01-22].
18:14:28 <clown> <div role="button" aria-pressed="true">Male</div>
18:14:46 <clown> <div role="button" aria-pressed="false">Female</div>
18:15:30 <jcraig> BG: implementing this as a subrole of checkbox could be awkward usability (maybe jsut use labels on button)
18:16:41 <jcraig> action-1392: A type of checkbox that that represents on/off values, as opposed to checked/unchecked values. See related checkbox.
18:16:41 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1392 Add a switch role to aria 1.1 in response to issue-446.
18:17:24 <jcraig> agenda?
18:17:33 <jcraig> zakim. drop item 1
18:17:42 <jcraig> zakim, drop item 1
18:17:42 <Zakim> agendum 1, issue-688, dropped
18:17:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1440
18:17:54 <clown> action-1440
18:17:54 <trackbot> action-1440 -- Joanmarie Diggs to landmarks section uses "region of page" in prose even though "region" is not a landmark -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
18:17:54 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1440
18:17:59 <mattking> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0082.html
18:18:48 <jcraig> MK: removed things from the original proposal
18:19:01 <jcraig> MK summary:
18:19:03 <jcraig> 1.      Move alert, grid, list, log, status, and tabpanel up a level to
18:19:04 <jcraig> have role section as their superclass.
18:19:05 <jcraig> 2.      Remove superclass region from article.
18:19:07 <jcraig> 3.      Change the "Name from" characteristic of role section to "N/A".
18:19:08 <jcraig> 4.      Modify prose for role region to suggest that assistive
18:19:10 <jcraig> technologies should treat a region as a landmark if it has an accessible
18:19:11 <jcraig> name.
18:19:12 <jcraig> 5.      Change the glossary definition of landmark region to more clearly
18:19:13 <jcraig> identify what distinguishes landmark regions from other regions.
18:20:15 <jcraig> thinks we should do this as a branch to make the edits more clear
18:20:58 <jcraig> JC: (scribe) last comment was me thinking out loud, not Matt
18:23:46 <jcraig> MK: Previous items were individual tasks in Proposal #1. Proposal #2 (which I like better) is as follows:
18:24:43 <jcraig> Proposal #2
18:24:44 <jcraig> The first 3 parts of proposal #2 are the same as proposal #1. But, proposal #2 provides an alternative approach to supporting labeled, generic, landmark regions. The purpose of this approach is to make the taxonomy even more clear and simple by removing all ambiguity associated with the region role.
18:24:45 <jcraig> Instead of part 4 and part 5 specified in proposal #1, proposal #2 includes the following:
18:24:47 <jcraig> 4.      Make region a subclass of landmark and require regions to have an accessible name. This will unambiguously make labeled regions into landmark regions. The abstract landmark role would become a child of section.
18:24:48 <jcraig> 5.      Map HTML 5 section as follows:
18:24:50 <jcraig> a.      To role presentation if the section element does not have an accessible name.
18:24:51 <jcraig> b.      To role region if the section element has an accessible name.
18:24:51 <jcraig> 6.      Use the new definition of landmark provided in part 5 of proposal #1 but with a small adjustment to the last sentence of the first paragraph so it reads, for a region to be a landmark region, its role must be a subclass of the landmark role.”
18:26:05 <joanie> +1 to breaking it into smaller tasks/problems
18:31:02 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:31:26 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
18:31:35 <Stefan> Scribe: Stefan
18:32:07 <Stefan> RS: come back to use of section
18:32:28 <jcraig> MK: region would be child role of landmark (just another landmark sibling) instead of current listing: region is parent of landmark
18:32:41 <Zakim> -[Apple]
18:32:46 <Stefan> RS: Cynthia, we have issue with div landmarks and use of group
18:33:16 <Stefan> RS: region without labels map to section
18:33:28 <Stefan> RS: we have issues on Mac
18:34:18 <Stefan> JS: best to wrap this up in an email (all details)
18:34:39 <clown> s/best to wrap this up/best to write this up/
18:34:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Rich Write up proposal for generic section role mappings to deal with div, role=“region”, and role=“group” confusion in the mappings
18:34:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1561 - Write up proposal for generic section role mappings to deal with div, role=“region”, and role=“group” confusion in the mappings [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2015-01-22].
18:36:59 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#structure
18:38:38 <MichaelC> ack me
18:39:07 <MichaelC> q+ to say you can fork the repository also
18:41:28 <Stefan> Cys: can you change the action for add. measures discussed?
18:42:02 <MichaelC> ack me
18:42:02 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say you can fork the repository also
18:44:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1440
18:44:42 <Stefan> RS: Joanie this was updated and your're good to go
18:44:52 <clown> action-1561?
18:44:52 <trackbot> action-1561 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to Write up proposal for generic section role mappings to deal with div, role=“region”, and role=“group” confusion in the mappings -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
18:44:52 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1561
18:46:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0044.html
18:46:50 <clown> FRT:  <div> is mapped to ROLE_SECTION and role="group" is mapped to ROLE_PANEL on ATK/AT-SPI.
18:47:15 <Stefan> RS: progress with IE team?
18:47:26 <Stefan> Cys: discussions but no strong opinions
18:47:42 <Stefan> RS: that's at least good
18:48:00 <clown> action-1406?
18:48:00 <trackbot> action-1406 -- James Craig to Add any necessary language for issue-605 (aria-selected on menuitem and subroles), and reference uaig #mapping_events_selection -- due 2014-03-31 -- OPEN
18:48:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1406
18:48:16 <clown> issue-605?
18:48:17 <trackbot> issue-605 -- menuitem role does not allow use of aria-selected -- open
18:48:17 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/605
18:48:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/605
18:50:50 <Stefan> JS: menu bar role=navigation?
18:51:10 <Stefan> JS: maybe inappropriate use
18:51:36 <clown> s/JS: maybe inappropriate use/MK: maybe inappropriate use/
18:51:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#menuitem
18:53:20 <Stefan> RS: Joseph selected state guidance in the Imp. Guide?
18:53:35 <Stefan> JS: one-liner it doesn't support it
18:54:09 <MichaelC> ack me
18:54:29 <clown> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Aug/0006.html
18:54:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Aug/0006.html
18:59:43 <Stefan> RS: do we want to include selectable state on menu item?
18:59:56 <Stefan> JS: the more reserach the more confusing
19:00:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
19:01:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
19:01:14 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Michael_Cooper, Bryan_Garaventa, [Apple], James_Nurthen, +49.322.110.8.aaaa,
19:01:14 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
19:01:17 <Zakim> ... Stefan, +1.703.978.aabb, Fred_Esch, Matt_King, [Microsoft]
19:01:20 <Stefan> rssagent, make minutes
19:01:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:01:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
19:03:38 <clown> s/FTR/FTR/
19:03:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-aria-minutes.html clown
19:04:29 <clown> s/FRT/FTR/
19:04:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/15-aria-minutes.html clown
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