IRC log of tt on 2015-01-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 08 January 2015
14:57:47 [nigel]
nigel has changed the topic to: Timed Text Working Group: Meeting 2015-01-08
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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
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+ +1.720.897.aaaa
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15:00:10 [nigel]
chair: nigel
15:00:44 [glenn]
zakim, aaaa is me
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+glenn; got it
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Regrets: frans
15:01:57 [nigel]
Present: glenn, nigel
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15:03:11 [tmichel]
zakim, ??P10 is me
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+tmichel; got it
15:03:41 [Zakim]
15:04:12 [nigel]
Present+ tmichel, pal
15:06:09 [glenn]
zakim, who's on the phone?
15:06:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see glenn, nigel, tmichel, pal
15:06:40 [nigel]
scribeNick: nigel
15:06:56 [tai]
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15:07:09 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting and future planning
15:07:51 [nigel]
nigel: Any other business?
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15:08:04 [Zakim]
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15:08:30 [nigel]
pal: ITU-R liaison
15:09:04 [nigel]
pal: Also the comment from Simon Hailes on IMSC1
15:09:20 [nigel]
nigel: also a F2F possibility
15:09:34 [nigel]
Present+ Andreas, jdsmith
15:10:52 [nigel]
nigel: Looking at the TTML2 timeline, we had said that we'd freeze the ED on 4th Jan prior to the FPWD.
15:11:13 [nigel]
glenn: I'm trying to get into place spec text for all proposed new features. There's one more that
15:11:32 [nigel]
... I've been contemplating, which is adding support for an anchor link functionality.
15:11:51 [nigel]
... I wanted to get all the 'new syntax' issues knocked off. The other issues that don't require
15:12:11 [nigel]
... new syntax I will address either via an Editorial Note or by editing directly.
15:12:57 [nigel]
... I'm trying to finish that all up this week and then get a document ready for FPWD review.
15:13:25 [nigel]
nigel: We will have a 2 week review period for the group before requesting publication.
15:14:02 [nigel]
glenn: We should be able to target the review period starting on Monday.
15:14:11 [nigel]
nigel: Will that have addressed all the P1 change proposals?
15:14:25 [nigel]
glenn: I believe so, in terms of new features, but not necessarily all the new material, e.g.
15:14:37 [nigel]
... the HTML mapping, which doesn't require new syntax and can be done later.
15:15:02 [nigel]
nigel: Okay it looks like we need to push all the dates back by 1 week.
15:15:13 [nigel]
tmichel: After the 2 week review the group will okay FPWD publication?
15:15:15 [nigel]
nigel: correct.
15:15:49 [nigel]
nigel: Thank you Pierre for putting together a graphical view of our publications timeline:
15:15:50 [nigel]
15:17:32 [nigel]
nigel: When I looked at this it seemed to me that a F2F might be needed around April to
15:17:43 [nigel]
... help stick to these dates.
15:20:01 [nigel]
group: discusses potential locations too - preference for west coast US due to other commitments
15:20:20 [nigel]
nigel: Are there any events that we would need to avoid?
15:21:32 [nigel]
pal: We could do it around NAB (April 11-16) in Las Vegas.
15:21:34 [tmichel]
what are the dates in Vegas ?
15:23:48 [nigel]
group: concludes that a west coast US location just before or after NAB is the most promising option.
15:24:29 [tmichel]
I would largely prefer before NAB, not after.
15:25:12 [nigel]
Topic: Action Items
15:25:22 [nigel]
15:25:22 [trackbot]
action-355 -- Glenn Adams to Resolve duplication between issue-357 and issue-229 -- due 2014-12-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:25:22 [trackbot]
15:25:45 [nigel]
close action-355
15:25:45 [trackbot]
Closed action-355.
15:25:50 [nigel]
15:25:50 [trackbot]
action-362 -- Glenn Adams to Raise an issue for font-kerning in ttml2 -- due 2014-12-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:25:50 [trackbot]
15:27:16 [nigel]
glenn: The requirement for font kerning came from Japan. This was raised as Issue-359.
15:27:30 [nigel]
close action-362
15:27:30 [trackbot]
Closed action-362.
15:28:32 [nigel]
15:28:32 [trackbot]
action-358 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft response to itu-r liaison re imsc 1 questions. -- due 2014-12-11 -- OPEN
15:28:32 [trackbot]
15:29:59 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks Pierre for drafting this and including a response to the ITU-R question on IMSC1 and WebVTT.
15:30:25 [nigel]
pal: ITU-R Working Party 6B came back to us with a set of specific questions. The liaison response
15:31:01 [nigel]
... tries to answer them factually.
15:31:03 [nigel]
15:31:24 [nigel]
pal: The first question asks about the relationship between IMSC 1 and WebVTT. I described
15:31:31 [nigel]
s/I described/
15:33:57 [nigel]
pal: The second question was about progressivelyDecodable and its possible usage.
15:34:15 [nigel]
pal: The third question was about support for high frame rate video.
15:34:46 [nigel]
glenn: I would edit the last sentence on that to begin with 'if' so that it doesn't get missed.
15:34:52 [nigel]
pal: I'll edit it now.
15:36:08 [nigel]
pal: Point 4 is about text profile and image profile and why they are mutually exclusive.
15:36:59 [nigel]
pal: I'll post the revised document.
15:38:03 [nigel]
nigel: I'll take it from there and post the response.
15:38:24 [nigel]
close action-358
15:38:24 [trackbot]
Closed action-358.
15:38:41 [nigel]
ACTION: nigel Format and send ITU-R liaison response
15:38:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-363 - Format and send itu-r liaison response [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-01-15].
15:39:46 [nigel]
15:39:47 [trackbot]
action-360 -- Nigel Megitt to Send liaison request on behalf of w3c ttwg to arib -- due 2014-12-18 -- OPEN
15:39:47 [trackbot]
15:40:36 [nigel]
nigel: I've been held up on this partly due to the holidays but also because they want a piece of
15:40:50 [nigel]
... paper to arrive, with W3C branding and my signature on it - I'll follow up with Daniel from
15:41:01 [nigel]
... W3 staff on this to see how we can complete this action.
15:41:28 [nigel]
Topic: Issues
15:41:30 [nigel]
15:41:30 [trackbot]
issue-360 -- Use of content encoding -- raised
15:41:30 [trackbot]
15:42:32 [nigel]
glenn: I would suggest we recommend gzip encoding for transfers if the client supports it.
15:42:36 [nigel]
15:43:02 [nigel]
jdsmith: Is this for data compression?
15:43:04 [nigel]
glenn: yes
15:43:07 [nigel]
ack nigel
15:43:29 [nigel]
nigel: We don't really mention transfer at all at the moment.
15:43:45 [nigel]
glenn: We do have a section on concrete encoding - I thought this could go in the same place.
15:44:23 [nigel]
reopen issue-360
15:44:23 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-360.
15:44:28 [nigel]
15:44:28 [trackbot]
issue-361 -- Add ttm:mediaTimestamp (or equivalent) attribute. -- raised
15:44:28 [trackbot]
15:45:01 [nigel]
glenn: In HLS there's a way to specify a timestamp map to associate MPEG-2 presentation stamps
15:45:14 [nigel]
... with document times. I welcome feedback on this one.
15:45:26 [nigel]
... I thought we could add a ttm: metadata attribute.
15:45:33 [nigel]
15:45:45 [nigel]
glenn: If it's a bad idea I wouldn't mind dropping it.
15:45:47 [nigel]
ack nigel
15:46:41 [nigel]
nigel: I know that this is likely to be a problem that needs solving, and people working on it,
15:46:47 [nigel]
... but I'm not sure when we'll have the solution for it.
15:47:20 [nigel]
glenn: We can open this issue and possibly add an extension spec for something like this.
15:47:33 [nigel]
nigel: Doing that as a Rec would need a new Charter but we could certainly do it as a Note.
15:49:25 [nigel]
nigel: I suggest we open this and defer until those folk putting TTML into MPEG-2 can define
15:49:28 [nigel]
... the problem space better.
15:49:44 [nigel]
glenn: I'd like to associate this with TTML2 for now and possibly move to as part of a
15:49:47 [nigel]
... deferral process.
15:49:54 [nigel]
reopen issue-361
15:49:55 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-361.
15:50:02 [nigel]
15:50:02 [trackbot]
issue-362 -- Handling forward interoperability of attribute extensions in TT namespaces. -- raised
15:50:02 [trackbot]
15:50:27 [nigel]
glenn: In TTML1 under the definition of an abstract document instance there's some language
15:50:42 [nigel]
... about what constitutes a valid abstract document. It handles new vocab that is unknown to
15:50:57 [nigel]
... the processor that is in one of the TT namespaces, like TTML2 adding a new element. But the
15:51:10 [nigel]
... language didn't handle attributes in TTML namespaces, e.g. a new style attribute like
15:51:26 [nigel]
... fontKerning. The language in TTML1 under that would not correctly address it but I think the
15:51:30 [nigel]
... intent was to do that.
15:51:37 [nigel]
reopen issue-362
15:51:37 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-362.
15:51:41 [nigel]
15:51:41 [trackbot]
issue-363 -- Add support for font shear -- pending review
15:51:41 [trackbot]
15:52:10 [nigel]
glenn: This one came from an industry standard called Lambda Cap. I've already moved that to
15:52:17 [nigel]
... Pending Review by the way, having implemented it.
15:52:26 [nigel]
nigel: I'd encourage review of the solution.
15:52:36 [nigel]
15:52:36 [trackbot]
issue-364 -- Relax constraint between the extents of the root container and the dimensions of the related video object frame -- raised
15:52:36 [trackbot]
15:53:03 [nigel]
pal: This was my attempt to capture Simon Hailes comment and resolve it, based on my
15:53:15 [nigel]
... discussions with him and others. My next step would be to implement in the IMSC 1 ED.
15:53:31 [nigel]
glenn: We should coordinate on that because I'm drafting some new language based on mapping
15:53:44 [nigel]
... to the related media object's viewport from the document's viewport.
15:54:14 [nigel]
pal: Okay. In a nutshell IMSC 1 currently forces the author to specify a root container extent
15:54:29 [nigel]
... size in pixels when images are present, and forces that extent to be the same as the related
15:54:44 [nigel]
... media object. The feedback is that this prevents usage of one document with multiple
15:54:58 [nigel]
... resolutions of related video objects. The proposal is to remove the constraint. It forces the
15:55:16 [nigel]
... renderer to be able to scale PNGs to match the related video object.
15:55:32 [nigel]
glenn: It forces renderers to be able to scale the composited root container region content into
15:55:45 [nigel]
... the related video object as opposed to scaling the individual images.
15:55:48 [nigel]
pal: You said it better!
15:56:17 [nigel]
pal: The feedback I've received is that this is a good idea in the multi-resolution world. I intend
15:56:20 [nigel]
... to implement it.
15:56:27 [nigel]
reopen issue-364
15:56:27 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-364.
15:56:39 [nigel]
jdsmith: So this affects IMSC only and not TTML in a broader way?
15:56:55 [nigel]
pal: Yes, because image is a SMPTE-TT extension. It affects IMSC 1 image profile documents but
15:57:04 [nigel]
... not other profiles.
15:57:19 [nigel]
glenn: The general issue is certainly going to be present in TTML2 because it will have image
15:57:31 [nigel]
... support. The general issue of mapping the root container region into some final region
15:57:41 [nigel]
... associated with the related video extent does apply to TTML1 too.
16:00:13 [nigel]
nigel: Looking at the remaining issues, did we resolve the ttm:item points?
16:00:28 [nigel]
glenn: I implemented the namespace resolution for ttm:item values in TTML2.
16:01:10 [nigel]
tai: I think we can go ahead with this from my perspective.
16:01:40 [nigel]
... I think a way out of this is to avoid listing predefined names or items but list the concepts
16:01:48 [nigel]
... that may be included.
16:02:14 [nigel]
glenn: I know that Pierre had that concern about not including smpte namespace metadata items.
16:02:42 [nigel]
... I have already added an editorial note on the CEA608/708 metadata items. It's not my
16:02:52 [nigel]
... intent to diverge from the existing syntax.
16:03:14 [nigel]
pal: It's hard to have a final opinion if the intent is to provide further information. The decision
16:03:30 [nigel]
... is on us to go ahead with a FPWD with incomplete information. I'm open minded about this.
16:03:46 [nigel]
glenn: There are other parts of the spec that are incomplete too, but that's okay for a FPWD.
16:06:18 [nigel]
nigel: I don't hear any objections to closing the ttm:item issues so I'll go ahead after this meeting
16:06:37 [nigel]
... and do that by email.
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16:08:21 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks everyone, we're 7 minutes over so I'll adjourn the meeting - meet at the usual time next week, for 1 hour.
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rrsagent, make logs public
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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s/... I wanted/glenn: I wanted
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s/what are the dates in Vegas ?/
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s/I would largely prefer before NAB, not after./
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i/Topic: Action Items/tmichel: I would largely prefer before NAB, not after.
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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s/... new syntax/glenn: new syntax
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s/I'm trying to finish/glenn: I'm trying to finish
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s/... Pending Review/glenn: Pending Review
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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s/glenn: I'm trying to finish/I'm trying to finish
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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group: wishes each other a Happy New Year.
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM
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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were +1.720.897.aaaa, nigel, glenn, tmichel, pal, jdsmith, Andreas
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