16:40:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
16:40:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/05-coga-irc
16:40:54 <Lisa_Seeman> chair: Lisa_Seeman
16:45:19 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda: this
16:45:20 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  review of agenda, and quick recap of what we are doing
16:45:22 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  update on editors draft
16:45:23 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  update on techniques
16:45:25 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+   New issue papers suggestion,
16:45:27 <Lisa_Seeman>  agenda+  assign todo actions for next steps
16:45:28 <Lisa_Seeman>   agenda+  Next FTF
16:45:30 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ be done
16:56:37 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
16:56:47 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #coga
16:57:23 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #coga
16:58:49 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:58:49 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
16:59:09 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
16:59:09 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I don't know what conference this is
16:59:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see Susann_Keohane, JohnRochford, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, janina, MichaelC, trackbot
16:59:21 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, this will be  WAI_CogTF
16:59:21 <Zakim> ok, Lisa_Seeman, I see WAI_CogTF()12:00PM already started
16:59:32 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
16:59:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.718.618.aaaa, skeohane
16:59:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see Susann_Keohane, JohnRochford, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, janina, MichaelC, trackbot
17:00:15 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
17:00:15 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
17:00:55 <Zakim> - +1.718.618.aaaa
17:01:52 <Zakim> + +1.718.618.aacc
17:01:59 <Zakim> - +1.718.618.aacc
17:02:10 <Zakim> + +1.508.856.aadd
17:02:15 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
17:02:27 <Zakim> + +1.718.618.aaee
17:02:34 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
17:02:34 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
17:03:00 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim,  aaee is me
17:03:00 <Zakim> +Lisa_Seeman; got it
17:03:02 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #coga
17:03:08 <JohnRochford> Zakim, aadd is JohnRochford
17:03:08 <Zakim> +JohnRochford; got it
17:03:25 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
17:03:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see skeohane, JohnRochford, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Lisa_Seeman
17:03:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see MaryJo, Susann_Keohane, JohnRochford, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, janina, MichaelC, trackbot
17:03:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
17:04:06 <Tony_Doran> Tony_Doran has joined #coga
17:04:35 <Zakim> + +44.289.442.aaff
17:04:49 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:04:51 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #coga
17:04:52 <Tony_Doran> Zakim, aaff is me
17:04:52 <Zakim> +Tony_Doran; got it
17:05:25 <Zakim> +Debbie_Dahl
17:05:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich
17:05:31 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, next item
17:05:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "review of agenda, and quick recap of what we are doing" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:05:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: quick review of the agenda as a first agenda item
17:06:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: we need to do a quick recap for the start of the year. they flow together
17:06:17 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
17:06:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: we had redone the main page of the wiki. We are currently working on the gap analysis
17:06:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: the first module is ready for first public working draft
17:07:22 <Zakim> +??P7
17:07:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: techniques need to go into a document and issues need to be ...
17:07:36 <janina> zakim, ??P7 is me
17:07:36 <Zakim> +janina; got it
17:07:40 <janina> zakim, mute me
17:07:40 <Zakim> janina should now be muted
17:07:43 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
17:07:50 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, next item
17:07:50 <Zakim> agendum 2. "update on editors draft" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:07:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: do I need to clarify anything?
17:08:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: ok
17:08:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: a quick look at action items
17:08:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: John and I were looking at people with cogntivive disabilities
17:08:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: Tony and I were working on dyslexia techniques
17:08:52 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.texthelp.com/media/39360/USDyslexiaAndWebAccess.PDF
17:09:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: Tony, you had sent some interesting links from your company
17:09:09 <Zakim> +neilmilliken
17:09:17 <Zakim> +??P9
17:09:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: John , can you put that link into the research document?
17:09:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> John: yes
17:09:33 <Tony_Doran> q?
17:10:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> John: I am behind on some action items. … I am aware of it.
17:10:35 <neilmilliken> neilmilliken has joined #coga
17:10:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: you were creating techniques for the subgroup
17:10:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> susann: yes, I will start on that for the new year
17:11:03 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
17:11:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see skeohane, JohnRochford, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Lisa_Seeman, Tony_Doran, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Debbie_Dahl, janina (muted), neilmilliken, Michael_Cooper (muted)
17:11:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see neilmilliken, ddahl, Tony_Doran, richardschwerdtfeger, MaryJo, Susann_Keohane, JohnRochford, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, janina, MichaelC, trackbot
17:11:37 <Tony_Doran> q?
17:11:38 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag/coga-gap-analysis-2014-fpwd/coga/user-research.html
17:11:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: so, we have 3 main things on the gap analysis: the research module
17:12:03 <Tony_Doran> q+
17:12:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: I have sent reminders to the chairs of wcag and PF to publish this as a first working draft
17:12:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
17:12:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack Tony
17:12:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tony: The research by Peter Range is based on Erlend industries and that has fallen out of favor.
17:13:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tony: … it was recommended that we don’t push that research out
17:13:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tony: I am not in academia so I don’t know which is still valid for that community
17:13:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we need criteria for accepting research
17:14:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we can get in a lot of trouble when we publish techniques and people say that is no good
17:14:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: We should put in acceptance criteria for research
17:14:45 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
17:14:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see skeohane, JohnRochford, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Lisa_Seeman, Tony_Doran, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Debbie_Dahl, janina (muted), neilmilliken, Michael_Cooper (muted)
17:14:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see neilmilliken, ddahl, Tony_Doran, richardschwerdtfeger, MaryJo, Susann_Keohane, JohnRochford, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, janina, MichaelC, trackbot
17:14:50 <janina> zakim, unmute me
17:14:50 <Zakim> janina should no longer be muted
17:14:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we were talking about the user research draft
17:15:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: is there something else we need to do to invite PF to review this document?
17:15:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: The next steps to be taken up by PF Wednesday.
17:16:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: first public working drafts don’’t have to be perfect
17:16:10 <MichaelC> ack me
17:16:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we need to get this out before Michael goes on holilday jan 21 through February 1
17:16:56 <MichaelC> https://w3c.github.io/wcag/coga/user-research.html
17:17:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> michael: I have sent out a new URI for the editors draft
17:17:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> michael: this is a better URI for sharing
17:17:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:17:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> michael: we will ask the working groups to review this
17:17:45 <ead> ead has joined #coga
17:18:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we expect people to read the document and provide comments so expect people to send comments that we process
17:18:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: this is a bit of a formal process
17:18:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
17:18:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: Cognitive Accessibility Task Force
17:18:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Lisa
17:19:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: there a wide of responses that need to be managed
17:19:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/wide/wide range/
17:19:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: I am very excited for comments
17:20:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: the more the better as it means people are interested
17:20:20 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, next item
17:20:20 <Zakim> agendum 3. "update on techniques" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:20:23 <janina> zakim, mute m
17:20:23 <Zakim> 'm' is ambiguous, janina
17:20:29 <janina> ezakim, mute me
17:20:35 <janina> zakim, mute me
17:20:35 <Zakim> janina should now be muted
17:21:05 <MichaelC> zakim, ipcaller is EA_Draffan
17:21:05 <Zakim> +EA_Draffan; got it
17:21:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: so, the techniques document is one of two things we are working on
17:21:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: we are working on techniques and issue papers
17:21:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: we are asking user research what kind of techniques
17:22:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: we will mark some as not having enough research
17:22:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: Tony is working on dyslexic
17:22:31 <Lisa_Seeman> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Techniques_and_Strategies_For_The_Cognitive_and_Learning_Disabilities_Accessibility_Task_Force_%28COGA%29
17:22:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: EAD did some great techniques on ephasia
17:22:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: the contents of the link need to be updated
17:23:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: I started on updating it and found there was a lot of redundancy in the work effort
17:23:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: you can’t just cut, copy, and paste as that is error prone
17:23:43 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag/coga-gap-analysis-2014-fpwd/coga/CogaTechniques.html
17:23:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: I made a draft on github
17:24:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: are you going to have editing directly on the github site as well?
17:24:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: michael can give people editing rights
17:25:48 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
17:26:05 <MichaelC> ack me
17:26:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: does this allow you to edit on the web or your local machine?
17:27:25 <Tony_Doran> q+
17:27:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> michael: there is a bit of cost of doing business if you download it to your machine and edit it there and do the push.
17:28:02 <Zakim> -skeohane
17:28:08 <Tony_Doran> we need to recommend an editor. if someone uses word it will completely mess the HTML up.
17:28:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: if people want to put it into the wiki and then put it in github later then fine
17:28:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack Tony:
17:28:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
17:28:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack Tony
17:28:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> Tony: we should recommend an editor
17:28:59 <Zakim> +skeohane
17:29:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> michael: you should an editor that messes up with white space
17:29:12 <Tony_Doran> has the call dropped?
17:29:22 <Tony_Doran> or is it just me?
17:29:33 <Tony_Doran> Gonna redial in
17:29:39 <Zakim> -Tony_Doran
17:29:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> Michael: I can see how that works …
17:29:57 <Zakim> +Tony_Doran
17:30:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> Michael: normally people with direct editing capability are actual designated editors
17:30:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> lisa: we have Neil, Tony, and Suzanne, that are all working on techniques
17:31:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> Susann: I will learn github if necessary
17:31:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/Suzanne/Susann/
17:31:15 <Tony_Doran> I need to learn git too....
17:31:29 <ead> ditto from E.A.
17:31:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> Neil: I have not had my time to get my head around push pull process
17:32:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> Neil: If we decide to have a separate repository ...
17:32:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> Michael: Let’s talk about planning before our next meeting wrt. a  scratch and less scratch space repository
17:32:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> Michael: Let me see what I can come up with
17:32:56 <Tony_Doran> ++GoogleDocs - love it.
17:33:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> Michael, Google Docs are hard for us to get a conversion to our format
17:33:50 <Tony_Doran> Templates are a great idea
17:33:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we can publish the HTML template
17:34:25 <Lisa_Seeman> action lisa to put teplate for techniques onto the main page of the wiki
17:34:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-75 - Put teplate for techniques onto the main page of the wiki [on Lisa Seeman - due 2015-01-12].
17:35:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we want people to edit the techniques that are there now
17:35:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: Any objections to moving it to github?
17:36:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> group: no objections
17:36:28 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/wcag/coga-gap-analysis-2014-fpwd/coga/CogaTechniques.html
17:36:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: It was a very good exercise to take EAD work and merge with what we had
17:36:38 <Lisa_Seeman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Nov/0027.html
17:36:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: I have some questions
17:37:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: EAD you really tried to stick to the template more than necessary. You pretty much only had the techniques that we already had. The question that I then had was were the techniques that …
17:38:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: it was hard as splitting off the non-vocal groups. ephasia can be completely non-vocal. for safety sake I tended to do exactly what you said. Otherewise, the time would be significantly longer
17:39:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: perhaps we need to look at some of the techniques for some of the other disabilities as they can be completely different.
17:39:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: I was looking at this as a text based scenario with no verbal.
17:40:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: with ephasia people are looking more at how people are saying things
17:40:22 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
17:40:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: if you are watching a video, or they are communicating on site, or on a web page the techniques will vary
17:41:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: the brain damage or developmental dyslexia is impacted by the amount of text and the way they see the text. So, there are some huge similarities
17:42:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: Do you think you captured these from the the ephasia point  of view.
17:42:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: We captured the main problems
17:42:28 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
17:43:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: the second comment that comes to mind is where the techniqes … in the first section. Maybe we should put additional techniques where developers will run away in the second section.
17:43:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: I don’t want to lose them
17:43:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: Do you want us to include more techniques?
17:44:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: yes, even if they are very extreme.
17:44:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: things an author can do so that the person at the other end can use it
17:44:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> : you start with a medical disability
17:45:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: I am looking at the techniques page. When you went to the table …
17:45:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: the table is not in the techniques document
17:45:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: you could put the techniques into the table
17:46:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: no, where you had tags in the table you would reference the technique.
17:46:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: in the original document you had the table at the top and the techniques at the bottom
17:46:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: I left out pass and fail examples
17:47:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: I think it stands ok. We need others looking at it.
17:47:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: we need techniques and research that back up what we are saying
17:48:17 <Tim> Tim has joined #coga
17:48:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: For the ones we have that matched there are similarities
17:49:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: from what I am thinking from your responses there may be issues papers around things that we are missing. … what if I am having a skype conversation with someone
17:49:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: One type of emphasia may understand but others may end up repeating
17:50:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: users may not remember what happened due to short term member difficulties (such as due to age)
17:50:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: she we be having something for how to make a video?
17:51:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: vs. playing with content
17:51:36 <JohnRochford> q+
17:51:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: someone with a comprehension difficulty can complicate the issue (such as someone with an IQ of 80)
17:51:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack John
17:52:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> John: I think we are talking about 2 different things - the player controls and the content
17:52:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> John: there have been efforts by the  BBC to create content that is accessible by the general population
17:52:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> John: web trek - is commercial
17:53:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: I don’t see where these fit
17:53:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: People need to be able to use their own player
17:54:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: for email, web content, contacts, having a thread style email …
17:54:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: some want to be able to upload images that they made. These are for players, not the content
17:54:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: We have stumbled on a really important techniques
17:54:54 <JohnRochford> Example of video player designed to be easy to use: http://icant.co.uk/easy-youtube/
17:54:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: The author often chooses the player
17:55:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we are in the right place to do this
17:55:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: We need to figure out how to do it as part of personalization
17:55:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: then there is the content of the video
17:55:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: how do you make this video content understandable?
17:56:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: that might be an important issue paper
17:56:10 <Tony_Doran> That youtube player is cool!
17:56:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: video for one person may not work for that of an other
17:56:28 <JohnRochford> WWAAC Web Browser E.A. mentioned: http://www.wwaac.eu/products/browser.asp
17:56:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: there is personalization people can load
17:57:02 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
17:57:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: Steve Lee is not on and he has a lot of experience with Mavis that allows people to load their own videos, etc. into their own container. Steve will say that people will declare what their device and OS they are using.
17:57:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: This is sounding like an issue paper
17:58:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: Steve has the experience developing software that can describ it
17:58:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/describ/describe/
17:58:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: are there guidelines on how to make the video?
17:59:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: are focusing too much on text
17:59:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: many of the groups we are talking to have audio difficulties as well
17:59:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: memcat have advised on how to make videos
17:59:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/memcat/memcap/
18:00:07 <Zakim> -JohnRochford
18:00:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: you are making a video for a particular group
18:00:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:00:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/05-coga-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
18:00:39 <Tim> Tim has left #coga
18:00:45 <ead> https://www.mencap.org.uk/
18:00:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we don’t have to make content that is good for every developer out there
18:01:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: we are at the capture stage
18:01:28 <Tony_Doran> Need to drop off. Sorry.
18:01:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: Do you want to do additional techniques?
18:01:38 <Zakim> -Tony_Doran
18:02:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> EAD: I want to review the existing techniques to see how a solution can evolve
18:02:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> Lisa: I will send the techniquest to the list as an HTML template
18:02:24 <Zakim> -skeohane
18:02:25 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
18:02:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
18:02:26 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
18:02:26 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.718.618.aaaa, +1.508.856.aabb, skeohane, +1.718.618.aacc, +1.508.856.aadd, Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.718.618.aaee, Lisa_Seeman,
18:02:26 <Zakim> ... JohnRochford, +44.289.442.aaff, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Tony_Doran, Debbie_Dahl, janina, neilmilliken, Michael_Cooper, EA_Draffan
18:02:29 <janina> Bye, all!
18:02:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:02:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/05-coga-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
18:32:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
19:27:36 <ddahl> ddahl has left #coga
21:00:43 <Lisa_Seeman> Lisa_Seeman has joined #coga