13:56:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
13:56:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/19-aria-irc
13:56:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:56:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
13:56:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
13:56:09 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:56:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
13:56:10 <trackbot> Date: 19 December 2014
13:56:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich and Fred
13:56:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C SVG Accessibility Task Force
13:56:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
14:00:11 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #aria
14:00:25 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
14:01:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://apps.na.collabserv.com/meetings/join?id=4789-1811
14:02:07 <shepazu> shepazu has joined #aria
14:02:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> passcode scubamonkey
14:02:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://apps.na.collabserv.com/meetings/join?id=4789-1811
14:03:01 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:03:01 <Zakim> sorry, LJWatson, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
14:03:08 <LJWatson> zakim, who is on the phone
14:03:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', LJWatson
14:03:17 <LJWatson> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:17 <Zakim> sorry, LJWatson, I don't know what conference this is
14:03:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see shepazu, fesch, LJWatson, Zakim, RRSAgent, richardschwerdtfeger, MichaelC, janina, ed, MarkS, Tav, joanie, trackbot
14:04:26 <fesch> 	https://apps.na.collabserv.com/meetings/join?id=4789-1811
14:04:36 <LJWatson> zakim, this is 2742
14:04:36 <Zakim> ok, LJWatson; that matches WAI_SVGTF()9:00AM
14:05:04 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:05:04 <Zakim> +LJWatson; got it
14:06:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
14:06:54 <fesch> https://apps.na.collabserv.com/meetings/join?id=4789-1811
14:06:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2014Dec/0007.html
14:07:12 <Zakim> +??P30
14:07:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Doug Shepers Demo
14:12:03 <Zakim> + +1.781.565.aabb
14:12:45 <shepazu> https://talky.io/svg-a11y
14:13:08 <Amy> Amy has joined #aria
14:21:12 <shepazu> http://describler.com/
14:21:27 <shepazu> http://describler.com/samples/aria-bar-chart.svg
14:21:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Demo
14:22:07 <AmeliaBR> AmeliaBR has joined #aria
14:22:18 <shepazu> http://describler.com/
14:22:22 <shepazu> http://describler.com/samples/aria-bar-chart.svg
14:23:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: this is a demo of a 3D SVG Bar Chart. It is marked up with ARIA
14:24:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: tabbing to the chart and reading the description of the chart
14:27:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I am using the web speech api
14:28:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I am overriding the keyboard events to speak the bar chart.
14:28:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: it acts like a screen reader
14:28:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I hit the d key on the access to get more details
14:29:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I have implmented 2 levels of detail
14:29:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: the d key reponds with details
14:31:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: if I hit “S” and “p” for play it sonifies the chart
14:32:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: what I did was I created a trend line from the different bars. and I created a cursor that followed the trend line. the position sounds higher or lower based on the trend
14:33:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: in a scatter plot you don’t want to hear all the points. the trend line is a very good feature
14:33:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: once we have the trend we can describe vocally the trend
14:34:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: the sonifier is a nice feature but it is a bit extraneous as you can scribe verbally the trend
14:37:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I am using a structured svg file. I have made the order of the file such that it is in the order it should be read
14:37:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: describler is the app
14:37:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: none of this is intended as production code
14:38:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: we need to describe how these data visualization can be done
14:39:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: end users want to use their own screen readers vs. self voicing apps
14:39:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
14:40:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: it is a great starting point
14:41:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: should just speak in chrome
14:41:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Taxonomy
14:42:05 <fesch> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/2014Dec/0009.html
14:42:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: I would like to use this as a starting point for our discussion
14:42:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: I believe the goal is to define a minimal set of concepts
14:43:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: I would like to be able to cover 85% of graphics
14:43:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: so that we convey the information to a blind user
14:43:27 <shepazu> q+
14:44:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> jason: I think it is important to define what is native to an assistive technology but I want this to be extendable.
14:44:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> jason: I don’t mind taking an iterative approach
14:44:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: that sounds great
14:44:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack shep
14:44:44 <fesch> ack shep
14:44:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I think we are more or less in agreement
14:45:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: my document is a taxonomy and chart types
14:45:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: we need to define interactions that we want
14:45:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
14:45:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: starting with a minimal set of this - we are in agreement.
14:45:56 <AmeliaBR> q+
14:46:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I just want to be clear that we need to look at a wide variety of charts to do this.
14:46:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: for example D3 has many things that are beyond 2 axis and connectors
14:46:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: we need to take a serious look at this broad range
14:47:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I would rather look at this early and not wish we had done something essential early on
14:47:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: I am not sure that we are going find a lot of new components tool …
14:47:49 <fesch> ack rich
14:48:07 <shepazu> q+ to mention aria roles, maps
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14:48:51 <fesch> rich: mentions that accessibility has ignored graphics to date...
14:49:03 <fesch> ack amel
14:49:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: we are going to have to define experiences and interaction models that are interoperable. mainstream ATs have not dealt with this
14:49:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: we are going to have to focus on data concepts and extensibility
14:50:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> Amelia: beyond 2 dimensional to a time dimension to create an expandable frame of reference
14:50:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
14:50:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> Ameila: from there that can be the basis for describing what the interaction can be for the assistive technologies.
14:51:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> amelia: different charts will have different forms of interaction
14:51:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack shep
14:51:26 <Zakim> shepazu, you wanted to mention aria roles, maps
14:51:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: I agree. Accessibility is not only about blind people
14:51:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: we need to think about the visual as well.
14:51:57 <LJWatson> q+
14:52:09 <fesch> q+
14:52:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: this is not solely about blind people
14:52:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> Doug: we do need to focus ont the data
14:52:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> Doug: the taxonomy bit that I spoke about in my document is a set of proposed roles and attributes
14:53:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> Doug: maps will be a different mode of interaction
14:53:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> Doug: this should be different from just dat visualization
14:53:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
14:53:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack Lj
14:54:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> Leonie: the audio helps with the visualization
14:54:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack fesch
14:54:10 <fesch> ack fesch
14:54:18 <LJWatson> ack me
14:54:55 <shepazu> q+
14:54:59 <AmeliaBR> q+
14:55:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: I don’t know if it will impact the taxonomy so much. … we are not saying how we are going to present from the taxonomy but we do need to create the core concepts.
14:55:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: I don’t agree that we need to treat maps separately
14:55:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: they are all going to have similar cores with synomyms
14:55:53 <fesch> ack rich
14:57:22 <fesch> ack shep
14:58:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: we need to understand that this is beyond blind. people with attention deficit, and learning impairments benefit from different levels of verbosity
14:59:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: benetech has a mathtracks (nasa funded project) we should have in the scope of the group but not necessarily all visualizations. we should think about equations too.
14:59:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: we should talk about the taxonomy next time
14:59:57 <Zakim> -LJWatson
15:00:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: we start on taxonomy January 9
15:00:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> fred: we could tallk about what can include or not include over the holidays
15:01:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> amelia: beyond blindness we need to indicate which visual aspects impact data conveyance. some things may be decorative
15:01:43 <LJWatson> LJWatson has left #aria
15:01:57 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
15:02:02 <Zakim> - +1.781.565.aabb
15:02:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> doug: actually having the visual aspects (the blue bar) so that sighted colleagues can have a frame of reference when workign with a blind user
15:02:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
15:02:18 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Fred_Esch, +1.609.759.aaaa, Doug_Schepers, LJWatson, +1.781.565.aabb
15:02:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
15:02:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
15:02:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
15:02:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/19-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger