Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

11 Dec 2014


See also: IRC log


Addison, Richard, Xiaoqian, Bobby, Steve, JcK, Mati, David, Leandro, Somnath, Felix
Addison Phillips
Addison Phillips



Action Items



<trackbot> action-113 -- Richard Ishida to Work on tidying up Additional Requirements for Bidi in HTML & CSS over coming couple of months -- due 2012-04-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/113

richard: sent email aharon, porting document to respec


<trackbot> action-356 -- Leandro Reis to Work on converting cldr alphabetic index data to css predefined counter styles using automatic means, evaluating suitability of the data, and report back to wg -- due 2014-11-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/356

leandro: ticket open on cldr
... open 2 months now
... and then need to help them
... sent sample output to richard and addison

richard: didn't have time to look more than briefly

addison: ditto

leandro: so script ready. just need data

close action-356

<trackbot> Closed action-356.

<scribe> ACTION: leandro: follow up with cldr ticket to add counter style data [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-i18n-minutes.html#action01]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-383 - Follow up with cldr ticket to add counter style data [on Leandro Reis - due 2014-12-18].

<Leandro> CLDR ticket about adding counter style characters to data files: http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/7954


<trackbot> action-360 -- Xiaoqian Wu to Survey publishers if there are requirements for additional/more specific styles in chinese e-books -- due 2014-11-06 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/360

xiaoqian: didn't get helpful feedback yet

close action-367

<trackbot> Closed action-367.

close action-371

<trackbot> Closed action-371.

close action-378

<trackbot> Closed action-378.

<r12a> somnath, we lost you

somnath: responded to norbert's comments
... norbert agreed that other comments are okay

close action-379

<trackbot> Closed action-379.

richard: another person commented (haridam?)

somnath: already responded to him
... he's okay
... requested he send an email to that effect

richard: need to send to indic list

somnath: will send reply to public list also

close action-380

<trackbot> Closed action-380.


<trackbot> action-381 -- John Klensin to Check on eai documentation pages and send a link to the wg -- due 2014-12-11 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/381

addison: will double check I saw it


close action-381

<trackbot> Closed action-381.

Info Share

somnath: comment on CL TF item
... some institutions in india would like to contribute to Tibetan layout

richard: just finishing charter
... there will be links/process to join
... previous assumption was TF would work in Chinese, but others outside China also interested

JcK: next draft of document "what to do about lang dependent code points"

<JcK> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-klensin-idna-5892upd-unicode70/

addison: next meeting will be our last of the year

JcK: next week regrets

richard: next week potential regrets

<r12a> regrets from Richard until 15th Jan meeting

RADAR and Active Work Review


<Bobby> Fantasai just done the initial letter

<Bobby> should we add the inline layout level 3 to the review list?

bobby, can you send me a link to the document?

<Bobby> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-inline/

will add, thanks

addison: will shepherd Web Annotation Data Model

richard: looked at that. they use dc:language
... uses RFC 5646 rather than bcp47

<r12a> but with BCP47 values

felix: that link says
... the text must be normalized
... that may be something to look at
... no definitiion of what normalized is
... a few other things

richard: do you normalize it for the process you're running?
... or do you store that?

addison: any takers for xinclude?

(may not review...?)


addison: no changes in document this week

Indic Layout Requirements FPWD Transition Request


richard: ran spell check
... somnath made changes
... fixed spelling
... somnath answered a lot of Norbert's questions
... one missing item is that Norbert suggested
... the intro should say somewhere "yes, only Hindi *now*, but other languages to be done later..."
... suggest we add text like that now
... will suggest to somnath
... try to publish it tuesday

<scribe> chair: proposal is to publish Indic Layout Requirements as First Public Working Draft

UNKNOWN_SPEAKER: indicate your support or non-support

richard: note that first public is not expected to be in any specific level of maturity
... doesn't have to be in fantastic shape


<xiaoqian> +1

<fsasaki> +1

<David> +1

<r12a> +1

<Steve_Atkin> +1

<Leandro> +1

<matial> +1 but don't know much about the subject

<matial> :-)

<somnath> somnath : ok thnks.

<JcK> +1

<scribe> chair: so resolved

<r12a> ACTION: Richard to suggest wording for Somnath to add to indic layout intro to explain that we'll do other languages later [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-i18n-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-384 - Suggest wording for somnath to add to indic layout intro to explain that we'll do other languages later [on Richard Ishida - due 2014-12-18].

Review the Chinese Layout Task Force charter


richard: brief report
... took discussion items to beihang folks
... they were happy, updated charter
... yellow stuff are changes I added since then
... one outstanding query with them
... starting to think we may need separate public lists for tibetan and mongolian
... because cjk list has affinity between languages because they use similar writing system
... the others don't

xiaoqian: have one list for all languages or separate lists by languauge?

richard: provide maybe public-i18n-mongolian/public-i18n-tibetan (two lists)
... public-i18n-zhreq list proposed to be in Chinese language
... one issue is that people in Bhutan and India that want to participate in Tibetan work
... may not speak Chinese
... and maybe people in Mongolia?

xiaoqian: suggest to use that list's language?

richard: some people working on the script don't actually speak the language
... maybe either use English or Mongolian/Tibetan??
... public list would be in English

xioaqian: most mongolian experts speak no english at all

<scribe> chair: do we support adoption of the Chinese Layout Task Force charter?

<xiaoqian> +1


<David> +1

<Steve_Atkin> +1

<r12a> +1

<Bobby> +1

<Leandro> +1

<matial> +1

<JcK> Yes, although Id be a tad more complicated if more of the "how work will get done" details were nailed down.

richard: if you have suggestions about mailing lists, please make them
... this likely to be a problem we have to deal with more in the future

<JcK> And +1 to Richard's comment about future versions of the issue

<scribe> chair: so resolved!

Review of XSLT 3.0 is due




<trackbot> action-375 -- Steven Atkin to Defining Decimal Formats Permits Only Single Characters -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/375

When decimal formats are defined only single characters are permitted for decimal format elements. The zero-digit element only allows a single numeric character. This means that a sequence such as U+0030 U+20E3 would not be permitted. See section 5.5


<trackbot> action-376 -- Steven Atkin to Provide Guidance on Collation Tailorings -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/376

Section 13.1.3 requires that all implementers must recognize collation URIs as described in the Unicode Collation Algorithm, however there is no requirement to actually support any tailorings. I think we may want to consider requiring some level of support that all implementers will provide.

steve: how useful is it without support requirement?


<trackbot> issue-392 -- Decimal Format incomplete? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/392

In Section 5.5, there is a definition of "decimal-format". The structure here is similar to that found in CLDR/LDML [1], which is a very good thing. However, there are additional number related items in that section of LDML, particularly related to decimal, percent, scientific, and currency formatting.


<trackbot> issue-393 -- zero-digit replacement? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/393

XSLT decimal-format contains a "zero-digit" item (to start blocks of digits). CLDR now deprecates this (which doesn't mean you should remove it because: compatibility). CLDR has replaced this with number system, which XSLT might consider adding.


<trackbot> issue-394 -- decimal-format reference CLDR? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/394

decimal-format seems to mirror much of what CLDR provides in terms of base data for formatting numbers in XSL-FO. Would it be useful to provide an informative reference to CLDR as a source for filling in this structure?

Thinking out loud, would it be useful to allow direct reference to a language/locale in this structure as a shorthand for using implementation-specific locale data (often based on CLDR).

JcK: better to incorporate so that they aren't "parallel documents" if that's what they're trying to do
... or say why they aren't tracking CLDR

addison: think they relationship should be somewhat explicit


<trackbot> issue-396 -- character maps needs a string? -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/396

The 'character-maps' feature allows mapping a Unicode 'char' (which is defined in a way that means a Unicode codepoint) to a replacement string. This is good for most purposes, but it's not clear to me if grapheme cluster sequences might be useful here as well.

<Leandro> Need to leave a bit early today - 'til next week



<trackbot> issue-395 -- URI developments ⓣ -- open

<trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/issues/395

[Definition: Within this specification, the term URI Reference, unless otherwise stated, refers to a string in the lexical space of the xs:anyURI datatype as defined in [XML Schema Part 2].] Note that this is a wider definition than that in [RFC3986]: in particular, it is designed to accommodate Internationalized Resource Identifiers (IRIs) as described in [RFC3987], and thus allows the use of non-ASCII characters without escaping.


This is a Good Thing, but continuing developments in the URI/IRI/URL space need to be tracked. I don't see any specific changes needed now: I'm creating this as a tracking issue.

richard: have a request

<scribe> ACTION: addison: write apologetic email about lateness and forward XSLT3.0 comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-i18n-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-385 - Write apologetic email about lateness and forward xslt3.0 comments [on Addison Phillips - due 2014-12-18].

David: regrets next week


richard: send in comments about LTLI draft via email

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: addison: write apologetic email about lateness and forward XSLT3.0 comments [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-i18n-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: leandro: follow up with cldr ticket to add counter style data [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-i18n-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Richard to suggest wording for Somnath to add to indic layout intro to explain that we'll do other languages later [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-i18n-minutes.html#action02]
[End of minutes]

Minutes formatted by David Booth's scribe.perl version 1.140 (CVS log)
$Date: 2014-12-11 16:40:08 $