17:52:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:52:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-aria-irc
17:52:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
17:52:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
17:52:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:52:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
17:52:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:52:10 <trackbot> Date: 11 December 2014
17:52:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
17:52:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
17:52:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
17:57:09 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG()1:00PM has now started
17:57:16 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:58:05 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
17:58:21 <Zakim> + +1.703.978.aaaa
17:58:44 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
17:59:04 <joanie> Zakim, I am Joanmarie_Diggs
17:59:04 <Zakim> ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanmarie_Diggs
18:00:05 <Stefan> * me too
18:00:09 <Zakim> +??P7
18:00:34 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
18:00:42 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:00:42 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
18:00:52 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:00:52 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:02:49 <Stefan> ok
18:03:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Dec/0081.html
18:03:21 <Zakim> + +49.322.110.8.aabb
18:04:39 <mattking> mattking has joined #aria
18:04:39 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Stefan_Schnabel
18:04:40 <Zakim> +Stefan_Schnabel; got it
18:05:24 <mattking> zakim will not let me join on the phone
18:05:31 <mattking> it says the conference is restricted
18:06:09 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Fred_Esch
18:06:09 <Zakim> +Fred_Esch; got it
18:06:16 <Stefan> scribe: Stefan
18:06:27 <clown> action-1520?
18:06:27 <trackbot> action-1520 -- Jon Gunderson to Create a definition of "value" as per issue-679 -- due 2014-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:06:27 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1520
18:06:50 <clown> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Dec/0096.html
18:06:51 <Stefan> Rich: Jon was proposed to come back with proposal
18:06:59 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
18:07:13 <clown> Definition of "Value of a control"
18:07:13 <clown> The value of an element or form control is the information provided by
18:07:13 <clown> the user when they manipulate that control.  The following list is an
18:07:13 <clown> example some of the properties that define values for controls :
18:07:14 <clown> * Value of the VALUE attribute for an INPUT element
18:07:14 <clown> * Value of the ALT attribute for INPUT[TYPE="IMAGE"]
18:07:14 <clown> * The text content of the selected OPTION elements in a SELECT box or
18:07:15 <clown> LISTBOX
18:07:15 <clown> * Child text node content of a TEXTAREA
18:07:15 <clown> * Value of ARIA-VALUETEXT attribute
18:07:16 <clown> * Value of ARIA-VALUENOW attribute
18:07:19 <Zakim> +Matt_King
18:07:32 <Stefan> (Josef put description in)
18:07:32 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
18:08:26 <MichaelC> ack me
18:08:55 <Stefan> Rich: did we put it in the glossary?
18:09:26 <Stefan> Joseph: widget values had nothing to do with names
18:10:10 <Stefan> Rich: we'd better put in glossary not to change the spec
18:10:37 <Stefan> Rich: Michael, anything detailed as that acceptable in glossary?
18:10:49 <Stefan> Michael: Think so
18:11:02 <Zakim> +[Apple]
18:12:04 <Stefan> Rich: should be break up terms?
18:12:17 <Stefan> Michael: definitely
18:13:14 <Stefan> Michael: value less ambiguous if multiple references, value vs. control and so on
18:13:48 <Stefan> Matt: there is a difference between a control and a widget (anthology)
18:14:04 <Stefan> JC: widget can be anything, e.g. graph
18:14:56 <Stefan> Matt: value of button is used in name calculation .. but input name=tex don't use value .. confusion in name computation ahead
18:15:12 <clown> <input type="text" value="this is the text typed by the user:>
18:15:48 <Stefan> Matt: there are conditions where you use value in name calculation
18:16:20 <Stefan> Matt: we should keep that distinct
18:17:09 <Stefan> Matt: different label concepts for input type=text and <button> element, in the latter the labels come from content
18:18:34 <Stefan> (discussion about where the value comes from for different elements)
18:20:31 <jcraig> AGENDA+ Update the meeting time to match time discussed last week (one hour earlier:  12 Eastern / 9AM Pacific) See comments in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/01-aria-minutes.html
18:20:39 <Stefan> Josef: (cites name computation list for different elements)
18:21:22 <Stefan> Matt: label of a link comes from content, too
18:21:39 <Stefan> Josef: what is the value of a link?
18:23:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_control_element
18:23:58 <Stefan> Josef: but I agree with you Matt that this needs to be defined
18:25:21 <Stefan> Josef: starting pint were form controls but I don't want this to be too restricted
18:26:33 <Stefan> Matt: don't be too generic here .. bottomless pit
18:28:13 <Stefan> Josef: we can take out the link to glossary reference :)
18:28:46 <Stefan> Rich: is there value defined in host language?
18:29:07 <Stefan> Josef: core acc. name doc does not refer to any spec. language .. it is just the core
18:29:09 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
18:30:07 <Stefan> Josef: there is value attribute on all inputs .. but other elements not
18:31:39 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
18:32:37 <Stefan> JC: if you reference in JS you write "mytextarea.value" which is not the same as mytextarea.getAttribute
18:33:13 <Stefan> JC: I think we can phrase it using the value DOM property
18:33:45 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:33:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-aria-minutes.html jamesn
18:34:56 <Stefan> Josef: we have weired examples .. e.g. textarea
18:35:32 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#step2E
18:35:44 <Stefan> Rich: let's check wording
18:37:51 <jamesn> q+ to ask what about other roles?
18:39:08 <Stefan> (still discussion about button and its "value")
18:40:29 <Stefan> Matt: we have to list the differentcases
18:40:49 <Stefan> Rich: HTML itsself was not very consistent itsself
18:42:21 <Stefan> Joseph: we need more markup examples
18:43:34 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:43:46 <Stefan> Matt: we can distinguish between cases .. if vaue property is defined in host language attribute or not
18:45:18 <joanie> q+ to comment on text equivalent as value
18:45:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack jamesn
18:45:42 <Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to ask what about other roles?
18:46:12 <cyns> cyns has joined #aria
18:46:32 <jcraig> s/mytextarea.getAttribute/myTextArea.getAttribute("value")/
18:46:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack joanie
18:46:40 <Zakim> joanie, you wanted to comment on text equivalent as value
18:46:56 <jcraig> s/mytextarea/myTextArea/g
18:47:32 <Stefan> Stefan: http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/links.html#links-created-by-a-and-area-elements
18:47:45 <Stefan> Stefan: The href attribute on a and area elements must have a value that is a valid URL potentially surrounded by spaces.
18:48:08 <jcraig> s/value DOM property/"'value' DOM attribute" of "'value' property", not the "'value' content attribute."/
18:48:26 <jcraig> s/attribute" of "'value'/attribute" or "'value'/
18:48:32 <Stefan> Matt: name calculation thing is special cased always
18:50:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
18:51:31 <clown> "A literal that solidifies the information expressed by a state, property, role, or text content."
18:52:49 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#mapping_additional_widget-value
18:55:48 <Stefan> Rich: if you say aria value is consistent with these properties we need to consitently update this
18:59:20 <Stefan> Rich: know what to do for name calculation? Joseph: right
18:59:43 <Stefan> Rich:remove from glossary? Joseph: you are breaking a link
19:00:26 <MichaelC> ack me
19:00:34 <Stefan> Matt: who cares if somebody links to a pointless thing? Anyway, we have link checkers, don't we?
19:00:50 <Stefan> Joseph: W3C link checker has room for improvement ...
19:01:19 <Stefan> MC: That's why I double check links with some external tools, too
19:01:24 <clown> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#checkbox
19:01:58 <Stefan> MC: .. for broken links ..
19:02:44 <Stefan> Rich: keep action 1520 ? Joseph: think can close it ..
19:02:58 <Stefan> Joseph: delete from glossary
19:03:21 <Stefan> RESOLUTION: Close action 1520
19:03:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-aria-minutes.html clown
19:05:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: jcraig remove the link to the value definition in the glossary under role checkbox and look for other such references (we deleted the definition)
19:05:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1543 - Remove the link to the value definition in the glossary under role checkbox and look for other such references (we deleted the definition) [on James Craig - due 2014-12-18].
19:05:30 <clown> #dfn-value
19:05:54 <Zakim> -Stefan_Schnabel
19:06:59 <clown> action-1424?
19:06:59 <trackbot> action-1424 -- James Craig to Propose spec text for generic/general/??? role (computed role of html:div, html:span, svg:g, etc) and clearly explain explicit usage of this role is not common, and clearly explain relationship to group and none role. -- due 2014-04-21 -- OPEN
19:07:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1424
19:08:14 <mattking> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Dec/0028.html
19:12:28 <jcraig> action-1543: dc1e6d7..b2a7e8d  master -> master
19:12:29 <trackbot> Notes added to action-1543 Remove the link to the value definition in the glossary under role checkbox and look for other such references (we deleted the definition).
19:12:34 <jcraig> close action-1543
19:12:34 <trackbot> Closed action-1543.
19:13:49 <Zakim> -[Apple]
19:16:51 <jcraig_> jcraig_ has joined #aria
19:18:58 <clown> <input type="checkbox" role="section" aria-labelledby="foo">
19:28:31 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
19:31:07 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
19:31:09 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
19:31:14 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
19:31:15 <Zakim> -Fred_Esch
19:31:15 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
19:31:16 <Zakim> -Matt_King
19:31:22 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:31:23 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG()1:00PM has ended
19:31:23 <Zakim> Attendees were Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, +1.703.978.aaaa, Michael_Cooper, Joseph_Scheuhammer, +49.322.110.8.aabb, Stefan_Schnabel, Fred_Esch, Matt_King, [Apple],
19:31:23 <Zakim> ... James_Nurthen, [Microsoft]
19:42:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakime, bye
19:42:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:42:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/11-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
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