15:53:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-irc
15:53:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:53:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:53:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:53:25 <trackbot> Date: 09 December 2014
15:53:32 <AWK> Chair: Joshue
15:53:35 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?'
15:53:35 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:54:43 <AWK> regrets+ Alistair, Katie, Barry
15:55:19 <AWK> agenda+ Open question on a comment, and a proposed response https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/9thDec2014/results
15:55:34 <AWK> agenda+ Please continue to feed the wiki with your comments and feedback https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis
15:56:00 <AWK> agenda+ parsing feedback from the working group survey
15:56:33 <AWK> Agenda+ Discuss https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2958
15:56:47 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag
15:56:48 <AWK> Agenda+ discuss http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2877
15:56:52 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:56:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:57:00 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
15:57:01 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
15:57:01 <Zakim> 1. Open question on a comment, and a proposed response https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/9thDec2014/results [from AWK]
15:57:01 <Zakim> 2. Please continue to feed the wiki with your comments and feedback https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from AWK]
15:57:02 <Zakim> 3. parsing feedback from the working group survey [from AWK]
15:57:02 <Zakim> 4. Discuss https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2958 [from AWK]
15:57:02 <Zakim> 5. discuss http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2877 [from AWK]
15:57:29 <Zakim> +AWK
15:57:45 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:57:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IPcaller], AWK
15:57:52 <AWK> Zakim, ipcaller is Adam
15:57:52 <Zakim> +Adam; got it
15:58:08 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:58:12 <AWK> Zakim, Adam is Adam_solomon
15:58:12 <Zakim> +Adam_solomon; got it
15:58:16 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:58:16 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:58:50 <Joshue108> Chair: Joshue
16:00:36 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:00:36 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:00:38 <Zakim> +EricE
16:01:02 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:01:02 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:01:02 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:01:03 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:01:13 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:02:21 <Zakim> +??P33
16:03:01 <Joshue108> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Adam_solomon, AWK, Joshue, EricE (muted), David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper (muted)
16:03:48 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
16:04:05 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:38 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:05:00 <Brent> Brent has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:01 <Zakim> +cstrobbe
16:06:01 <cstrobbe> cstrobbe has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:02 <Zakim> +Brent
16:06:03 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
16:06:03 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
16:06:03 <Zakim> 1. Open question on a comment, and a proposed response https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/9thDec2014/results [from AWK]
16:06:03 <Zakim> 2. Please continue to feed the wiki with your comments and feedback https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from AWK]
16:06:03 <Zakim> 3. parsing feedback from the working group survey [from AWK]
16:06:04 <Zakim> 4. Discuss https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2958 [from AWK]
16:06:04 <Zakim> 5. discuss http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2877 [from AWK]
16:06:05 <yatil> Scribe: Adam_solomon
16:06:16 <yatil> scribenick: adam_solomon
16:06:24 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item
16:06:26 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up item', Joshue108
16:06:26 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 1
16:06:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Open question on a comment, and a proposed response https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/9thDec2014/results" taken up [from AWK]
16:07:22 <adam_solomon> TOPIC:  LC-2950 Current uniqueness or necessity of F17 is unclear
16:07:33 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2950
16:07:44 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/45
16:08:06 <yatil> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/9thDec2014/results#xq5
16:08:07 <cstrobbe> zzkim, mute me
16:08:16 <adam_solomon> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F17.html
16:08:34 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:08:34 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:08:45 <AWK> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:08:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see Adam_solomon, AWK, Joshue, EricE (muted), David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper (muted), Marc_Johlic, cstrobbe (muted), Brent
16:09:34 <Joshue108> http://davidmacd.com/test/more-than-one-accesskey.html
16:10:15 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
16:11:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:11:17 <Loretta> zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
16:11:17 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
16:11:32 <AWK> q+
16:11:40 <adam_solomon> david: access key is broken, never been a success (interference with all sorts of technology keys, collision. With same access key on different controls it traverses. for html5 may require ability for user to reassign value. Shouldn't worry about uniqueness
16:11:51 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:12:13 <adam_solomon> david: uniqueness might be best practice, not more than that
16:12:25 <AWK> q-
16:12:29 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
16:12:31 <MichaelC> ack me
16:13:33 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
16:14:10 <AWK> q+
16:14:21 <adam_solomon> michael: one is xml other is html hard to clarify the difference
16:14:41 <Zakim> +Kenny
16:15:48 <adam_solomon> michael: say keyboard access not access key
16:15:57 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:55 <AWK> ack me
16:16:57 <adam_solomon> joshua: don't need to mention access key at all
16:18:16 <Joshue108> q?
16:18:51 <Zakim> + +1.617.480.aaaa
16:19:14 <MoeKraft> Zakim, 1.617.480.aaaa is MoeKraft
16:19:14 <Zakim> sorry, MoeKraft, I do not recognize a party named '1.617.480.aaaa'
16:19:38 <MoeKraft> Zakim, +1.617.480.aaaa is MoeKraft
16:19:38 <Zakim> +MoeKraft; got it
16:19:51 <adam_solomon> awk: f17 has 2 parts: access key (says check for uniqueness and thats wrong)  this needs to be addressed. Other parts (table map etc) are mentioned by other techs. Left with access key which is wrong and unique id covered by f62, so we should dump f17, and if someone wants to draw up an access key tech thats fine, but f77 is good for parsing, f62 is also problematic, consider removing it as well> comment is good, doesn't go far enough
16:20:22 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F62.html
16:21:26 <Joshue108> q+
16:21:34 <adam_solomon> david: leave f62 (xhtml)?
16:21:49 <adam_solomon> awk: f62 is redundant to f77 and partially flawed
16:22:35 <Joshue108> ack me
16:23:01 <adam_solomon> joshua: access keys - broken model not good for accessibility - dump it until its improved
16:23:15 <cstrobbe> q+ to say that duplicate accesskeys may lead to indetermined behaviour; is that not an issue?
16:23:20 <cstrobbe> zakim, unmute me
16:23:20 <Zakim> cstrobbe should no longer be muted
16:23:23 <Joshue108> ack cst
16:23:23 <Zakim> cstrobbe, you wanted to say that duplicate accesskeys may lead to indetermined behaviour; is that not an issue?
16:23:44 <AWK> q+
16:23:52 <Joshue108> ack awk
16:24:15 <adam_solomon> cstrobbe: wouldn't ambiguities from non unique access keys be a problem?
16:24:38 <adam_solomon> awk: spec allows non unique access keys, why should it be a failure?
16:24:54 <Joshue108> q+
16:24:59 <adam_solomon> cstrobbe: spec doesn't necessarily guarantee accessiblity
16:25:50 <Joshue108> ack me
16:26:07 <cstrobbe> ack me
16:26:09 <adam_solomon> awk: nothing concrete to call them a failure
16:27:18 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:27:18 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:27:39 <adam_solomon> joshua: volunteer to draw up proposal  or f17?
16:28:08 <adam_solomon> awk: i could do that, and include dumping f62 as well - is there agreement on that?
16:28:57 <cstrobbe> F17 also covers "for" without a corresponding "id". Is that covered elsewhere?
16:29:02 <cstrobbe> q+
16:29:07 <cstrobbe> zakim, unmute me
16:29:07 <Zakim> cstrobbe should no longer be muted
16:29:55 <adam_solomon> cstrobbe: f17 also has part about missing id
16:29:56 <Joshue108> ACTION: AWK to drawn up proposal for accesskeys F17 / LC-2950
16:29:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-304 - Drawn up proposal for accesskeys f17 / lc-2950 [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2014-12-16].
16:30:35 <adam_solomon> awk: with form controls: problem would be where control has id and label references different id and for that there is another technique
16:31:28 <adam_solomon> cstrobbe: when label is next to control, but no "for" is a scenario
16:31:49 <adam_solomon> awk: believe we have another tech for that
16:32:12 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:32:12 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:32:45 <adam_solomon> resolution: leave open
16:33:15 <yatil> s/resolution:/RESOLUTION:/
16:33:23 <adam_solomon> RESOLUTION: leave open
16:33:52 <adam_solomon> TOPIC: Question regarding LC-2951 (Remove F42)
16:33:53 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2951
16:36:32 <MichaelC> ack me
16:36:42 <cstrobbe> ack me
16:36:48 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:36:48 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:36:58 <adam_solomon> joshua: what does long term cleanup list refer to?
16:37:11 <adam_solomon> michael: clean up redundancy
16:37:59 <Joshue108> q?
16:38:20 <cstrobbe> q+ to say that they have a different focus: a link that can be activated by keyboard but not programmatically determinable = F42
16:38:24 <adam_solomon> awk: f42 is better written, but all these techs point to different criteria. Hard to understand what they are failing, causing too much confusion
16:38:54 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:38:55 <adam_solomon> joshua: what about adding aria to f42?
16:38:55 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:39:10 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:39:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:39:22 <adam_solomon> awk: aria would be added to procedure (check if there role attribute)
16:39:48 <cstrobbe> zakim, unmute me
16:39:48 <Zakim> cstrobbe should no longer be muted
16:40:26 <adam_solomon> cstrobbe: f42 would cover link which has event handlers but is not identifiable as link
16:40:39 <adam_solomon> awk: why does f59 not cover this?
16:41:04 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:41:07 <yatil>  s/zzkim, mute me//
16:41:21 <adam_solomon> awk: are links user interface controls
16:41:39 <Zakim> +jon_avila
16:42:04 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:42:04 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:42:46 <adam_solomon> joshua: not clear cut to dump f42, keeping it and adding aria might be best way
16:43:34 <adam_solomon> james: why do we need to amend procedure - second step covers aria
16:44:14 <adam_solomon> kathy: could add note to description about aria
16:44:32 <adam_solomon> james: shouldn't encourage this - leave the note out
16:44:46 <AWK> q+ to ask if F42 should be 4.1.2 also
16:44:53 <cstrobbe> q-
16:45:47 <adam_solomon> james: applies to many failures, that js event handlers emulate link without it being a link because there is another control next to it, this shouldn't be a failure
16:46:00 <Joshue108> ack awk
16:46:00 <Zakim> AWK, you wanted to ask if F42 should be 4.1.2 also
16:46:37 <Kathy> q+
16:46:50 <adam_solomon> awk: f42 not referring 4.1.2, should it? (and 1.3.1?)
16:46:50 <Joshue108> ack kath
16:48:12 <AWK> q+
16:48:54 <Joshue108> ack awk
16:48:57 <adam_solomon> kathy: if we add 4.1.2, then perhaps we should add note about aria, because 1.3.1 is about semantics, 4.1.2 about role. some note is preferrable, even without encouraging its use
16:49:14 <cstrobbe> "In the majority of cases setting an ARIA role and/or aria-* attribute that matches the default implicit ARIA semantics is unnecessary and not recommended as these properties are already set by the browser." http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/dom.html#sec-strong-native-semantics
16:50:23 <adam_solomon> awk: could use role=link for span, not best practice, but would work
16:51:04 <adam_solomon> joshua: keep f42, do we need to modify it and how?
16:51:29 <AWK> ack awk
16:52:02 <Zakim> -Brent
16:53:21 <adam_solomon> joshua: kathy could draw up proposed text later on , until then leave open
16:53:36 <adam_solomon> RESOLUTION: leave open
16:53:41 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
16:53:41 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
16:53:42 <Zakim> 1. Open question on a comment, and a proposed response https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/9thDec2014/results [from AWK]
16:53:42 <Zakim> 2. Please continue to feed the wiki with your comments and feedback https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from AWK]
16:53:42 <Zakim> 3. parsing feedback from the working group survey [from AWK]
16:53:42 <Zakim> 4. Discuss https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2958 [from AWK]
16:53:45 <Zakim> 5. discuss http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2877 [from AWK]
16:53:51 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 2
16:53:51 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Please continue to feed the wiki with your comments and feedback https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis" taken up [from AWK]
16:54:57 <adam_solomon> TOPIC: agendum 2. "Please continue to feed the wiki with your comments and feedback
16:55:19 <yatil> ack me
16:56:12 <Joshue108> q?
16:56:35 <Joshue108> q+ to say that having a bullet point list of what the Quickref does well on the wiki would be helpful
16:56:58 <Joshue108> ack me
16:56:58 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say that having a bullet point list of what the Quickref does well on the wiki would be helpful
16:57:05 <adam_solomon> erice: current how to doc doing well, what else can we do with quick ref doc
16:58:27 <Joshue108> q?
16:59:08 <yatil> q+ to say that we may have some user testing through EO…
16:59:14 <adam_solomon> david: track down someone who is expert on ux usability, would be great for feedback
16:59:14 <Joshue108> ack eric
16:59:14 <Zakim> EricE, you wanted to say that we may have some user testing through EO…
16:59:15 <yatil> ack me
17:00:00 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 3
17:00:00 <Zakim> agendum 3. "parsing feedback from the working group survey" taken up [from AWK]
17:00:02 <adam_solomon> RESOLUTION: leave open
17:00:04 <yatil> zakim, mute me
17:00:04 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
17:00:19 <adam_solomon> TOPIC: agendum 3. "parsing feedback from the working group survey"
17:00:36 <yatil> s/RESOLUTION: leave open//
17:00:42 <yatil> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:00:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
17:01:16 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 4
17:01:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Discuss https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2958" taken up [from AWK]
17:01:39 <yatil> s/EricE, you wanted to say that we/erice: We/
17:01:40 <yatil> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
17:01:53 <adam_solomon> link that works: https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2958
17:02:29 <adam_solomon> TOPIC: LC-2958
17:02:32 <yatil> s/erice: We/EricE, you wanted to say that we/
17:02:34 <yatil> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:02:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
17:02:41 <adam_solomon> awk: can we close this out?
17:03:09 <Joshue108> q?
17:03:39 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 5
17:03:39 <Zakim> agendum 5. "discuss http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2877" taken up [from AWK]
17:03:43 <adam_solomon> RESOLUTION: close this out
17:04:16 <adam_solomon> TOPIC: LC-2877
17:04:32 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H91.html
17:04:51 <AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/58/files
17:05:31 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
17:05:31 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
17:05:58 <Joshue108> ack me
17:06:27 <adam_solomon> awk: added input=file to h91, don't think there is need to survey again
17:07:57 <Joshue108> regrets+ Mike Elledge
17:08:10 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H91.htmlhttp://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H91.html
17:08:12 <Joshue108> regrets+ Katie
17:10:51 <Zakim> -Adam_solomon
17:11:52 <AWK> Scribe: AWK
17:12:00 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
17:12:00 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
17:12:01 <Zakim> 1. Open question on a comment, and a proposed response https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/9thDec2014/results [from AWK]
17:12:01 <Zakim> 2. Please continue to feed the wiki with your comments and feedback https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from AWK]
17:12:01 <Zakim> 3. parsing feedback from the working group survey [from AWK]
17:12:01 <Zakim> 4. Discuss https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20140306/2958 [from AWK]
17:12:04 <Zakim> 5. discuss http://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/2877 [from AWK]
17:12:12 <AWK> JOC: anything else?
17:12:35 <Zakim> -MoeKraft
17:12:36 <AWK> Trackbot, end meeting
17:12:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:12:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AWK, Adam_solomon, Joshue, EricE, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, cstrobbe, Brent, Loretta, Kathy_Wahlbin, Kenny, MoeKraft,
17:12:37 <Zakim> ... James_Nurthen, jon_avila
17:12:39 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
17:12:40 <Zakim> -jon_avila
17:12:41 <Zakim> -Loretta
17:12:41 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:12:42 <cstrobbe> 下次聊
17:12:42 <Zakim> -Joshue
17:12:42 <Zakim> -Kenny
17:12:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:12:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
17:12:44 <Zakim> -AWK
17:12:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:12:45 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
17:12:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AWK to drawn up proposal for accesskeys F17 / LC-2950 [1]
17:12:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/09-wai-wcag-irc#T16-29-56
17:12:46 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
17:12:47 <Zakim> -EricE
17:12:48 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper