18:59:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #shapes
18:59:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-shapes-irc
18:59:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs rdf-data-shapes
18:59:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #shapes
18:59:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
18:59:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
18:59:33 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Data Shapes Working Group Teleconference
18:59:33 <trackbot> Date: 04 December 2014
18:59:33 <pfps> pfps has joined #shapes
18:59:45 <Arnaud1> zakim, this is shapes
18:59:45 <Zakim> ok, Arnaud1; that matches DATA_RDFWG()2:00PM
18:59:51 <magyarblip> magyarblip has joined #shapes
19:00:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:00:41 <Zakim> + +1.408.554.aabb
19:00:47 <pfps> zakim, who is here?
19:00:48 <hknublau> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
19:00:49 <Zakim> +ericP
19:00:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, pfps, +30694579aaaa, [IPcaller], +1.408.554.aabb, ericP
19:00:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see magyarblip, pfps, Zakim, RRSAgent, AxelPolleres, hknublau, SteveS, jimkont, Arnaud, SimonSteyskal, betehess, rhiaro, sandro, ericP, trackbot
19:00:50 <Arnaud> zakim, aabb is me
19:00:50 <Zakim> +hknublau; got it
19:00:50 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it
19:01:03 <Zakim> + +1.201.748.aacc
19:01:31 <SimonSteyskal> zakim, ??P3 is SimonSteyskal
19:01:31 <Zakim> +SimonSteyskal; got it
19:01:49 <jimkont> zakim, +30694579aaaa is me
19:01:49 <Zakim> +jimkont; got it
19:01:52 <Zakim> +[IBM]
19:01:58 <SteveS> zakim, [ibm] is me
19:01:58 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
19:02:01 <Zakim> +Arthur_Ryman
19:02:42 <arthur> arthur has joined #SHAPES
19:03:20 <Arnaud> zakim, who is on the phone?
19:03:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see SimonSteyskal, pfps, jimkont, hknublau, Arnaud, ericP, +1.201.748.aacc, SteveS, Arthur_Ryman
19:03:52 <magyarblip> i am +1.201 Patrick Johnston (magyarblip)
19:04:12 <SteveS> Zakim, aacc is magyarblip
19:04:12 <Zakim> +magyarblip; got it
19:04:52 <pfps> arnaud: scribing is easy
19:05:04 <pfps> ...: two simple rules get you 99% of the way there
19:05:05 <andimou> andimou has joined #shapes
19:05:40 <pfps> s/easy/simple/
<arthur> chair: Arnaud
<arthur> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.12.04
19:06:09 <arthur> Topic: Approve minutes
19:06:12 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Approve minutes of the 20 November Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-shapes-minutes.html
19:06:34 <pfps> minutes look OK, particularly with the recent edits
19:06:35 <hknublau> +1
19:06:36 <SimonSteyskal> +1
19:06:40 <arthur> +1
19:06:46 <jimkont> +1
19:06:52 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Approve minutes of the 20 November Telecon: http://www.w3.org/2014/11/20-shapes-minutes.html
19:07:06 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #shapes
19:07:12 <arthur> Arnaud: APPROVED
19:09:00 <arthur> Arnaud: discussing procedure for editing minutes - possible overwriting HTML if log is edited
19:09:40 <pfps> I'm happing with editing the IRC log, particularly as there is an original copy stored somewhere else
19:10:21 <arthur> SimonSteyskal: Always type name of speaker into IRC logged so perl script will pick it up (avoid ...)
19:10:30 <SimonSteyskal> nono
19:10:38 <SimonSteyskal> just after a new topic
19:11:04 <SimonSteyskal> q+
19:11:34 <Arnaud> ack SimonSteyskal
19:11:36 <arthur> SimonSteyskal: correction, perl script only needs nickname when topic is changed
19:12:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
19:13:00 <arthur> Arnaud: Always edit the IRC log, never edit the generated HTML
19:13:16 <pfps> agenda for today lists next meeting as today.  I assume that the next meeting is next week (2014/12/11)
19:13:16 <arthur> Topic: Next Meeting
19:13:27 <arthur> Arnaud: next meeting is Dec. 11
19:13:48 <arthur> Topic: Next F2F Meeting
19:14:09 <arthur> Arnaud: unable to find a date that works for everyone
19:14:33 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: F2F2 meeting at MIT the 17-19 February 2015
19:14:50 <arthur> +1
19:14:56 <ericP> +1
19:15:01 <pfps> OK by me.
19:15:02 <SteveS> +1
19:15:10 <ericP> scribenick: arthur
19:15:14 <pfps> , but I'm not sure if I will be there physically.
19:15:22 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: F2F2 meeting at MIT the 17-19 February 2015
19:15:46 <arthur> Topic: Tracking of actions & issues
19:16:22 <arthur> Arnaud: Holger raised concern about losing isses on the mailing list
19:16:39 <arthur> ... everyone should raise issues in the tracker
19:17:10 <arthur> Topic: User Stories/Use cases status
19:18:37 <arthur> Arnaud: everyone should review user stories by next meeting so we can approve it next meeting
19:19:10 <arthur> ... record your concerns and we will discuss them next meeting
19:19:14 <pfps> q+ to say that putting notes in the document might be a good way to bring up concerns with the stories
19:19:22 <Arnaud> ack pfps
19:19:22 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say that putting notes in the document might be a good way to bring up concerns with the stories
19:19:55 <SimonSteyskal> +1
19:20:14 <arthur> pfsp: propose that everyone should include comments in the user story documents
19:20:51 <ericP> q+ to boldly claim that the wiki probably supports CSS if we're lucky.
19:20:59 <SHAPES> SHAPES has joined #shapes
19:21:01 <Arnaud> ack ericP
19:21:01 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to boldly claim that the wiki probably supports CSS if we're lucky.
19:21:10 <arthur> pfps: propose that everyone should include comments in the user story documents
19:21:49 <arthur> ericP: suggest that we use wiki css to markup comments, need mediawiki guru
19:22:44 <arthur> q+
19:22:49 <Arnaud> ack arthur
19:23:16 <arthur> we use <arthur> blah blah </arthur>
19:24:41 <arthur> Topic: Requirements
19:25:04 <SHAPES> whoami
19:25:52 <arthur> Arnaud: Karen is still discussing how Dublin Core will share their requirements
19:26:45 <arthur> Arnaud: suggest we start a wiki page for Requirements
19:27:11 <ArthurK> ArthurK has joined #shapes
19:28:09 <arthur> ericP: I am OK to try to generate a requirements database extracted from the wiki
19:28:48 <arthur> q+
19:28:51 <SimonSteyskal> i could hardcode the (main) dc requirements into a wikipage
19:29:02 <SimonSteyskal> without fancy magic ;)
19:29:25 <Arnaud> ack arthur
19:29:47 <ericP> arthur: can one embed javascript in a wiki page?
19:29:58 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/2014/10/rdfvalreqs/
19:30:10 <ericP> ... then the wiki page itself could render well
19:31:10 <arthur> q+
19:31:51 <Arnaud> ack Arthur
19:32:53 <hknublau> +q
19:32:59 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
19:33:11 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2014/10/rdfvalreqs/reqs.json JSON source
19:34:28 <arthur> hknublau: suggest that we establish a template so we can markup entries and then have the content parsed and displayed usefully
19:36:33 <arthur> Q+
19:37:06 <Arnaud> ack arthur
19:38:16 <ericP> -> https://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/wiki/Rawreqs playing with raw reqs in JSON
19:38:23 <arthur> q+
19:38:29 <Arnaud> ack Arthur
19:40:11 <arthur> ACTION: ericP will investigate how to get requirements into the wiki
19:40:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2 - Will investigate how to get requirements into the wiki [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2014-12-11].
19:40:55 <arthur> Topic: ISSUE-3 Shape association
19:42:37 <arthur> Arnaud: Holger listed the ways to associate shapes and graphs/resource/classes
19:45:02 <pfps> q+ to ask how this is related to issue-3
19:45:20 <Arnaud> ack pfps
19:45:20 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask how this is related to issue-3
19:45:54 <arthur> hknublau: summarized issue, describes use of classes for defining constraints
19:46:05 <SteveS> ISSUE-3?
19:46:05 <trackbot> ISSUE-3 -- How is a shape associated with a graph? -- open
19:46:05 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2014/data-shapes/track/issues/3
19:46:32 <arthur> pfps: this issue should be about how to associate shapes, not what shapes are
19:47:24 <ericP> q+ to say that we don't have to think of all the ways that shapes will be used.
19:47:34 <pfps> this issue should be about how to relate graphs to constraints, not what the endpoints of the associations can be within the graph
19:47:34 <Arnaud> ack ericP
19:47:34 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to say that we don't have to think of all the ways that shapes will be used.
19:48:02 <arthur> ericP: describes analogy with XML Schema
19:48:35 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has left #shapes
19:48:46 <arthur> ... XML Schema was not prescriptive about how to apply schemas to XML documents
19:49:07 <arthur> ... this group should both define shapes and how to assocaite them
19:49:24 <arthur> s/assocaite/associate/
19:49:54 <arthur> Arnaud: relates experience in XML WG
19:50:40 <arthur> ... e.g. LPD WG expects this WG to define association between LDP container and shapes
19:50:44 <hknublau> +q
19:50:50 <Arnaud> ack hknublau
19:51:49 <arthur> hknublau: with Linked Data, we can dereference the rdf:type URI, or use owl:imports
19:53:07 <arthur> ... we should not specify mechanisms that are very specific, e.g. LPD, Hydra
19:53:48 <arthur> ... agree that we can split ISSUE-3 into orthogonal issues
19:54:16 <arthur> q+
19:54:21 <Arnaud> ack Arthur
19:55:42 <pfps> q+ to say that I'm willing to put my message into a wiki page for issue-3
19:55:48 <Arnaud> ack pfps
19:55:48 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to say that I'm willing to put my message into a wiki page for issue-3
19:56:02 <arthur> ACTION: hknublau will create a new issue to describe the aspect of ISSUE-3 that discuss the nature of shape resources
19:56:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Will create a new issue to describe the aspect of issue-3 that discuss the nature of shape resources [on Holger Knublauch - due 2014-12-11].
19:57:04 <pfps> OK
19:58:53 <pfps> ACTION: pfps to create new wiki page for issue-3, seeded with his email message
19:58:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Create new wiki page for issue-3, seeded with his email message [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2014-12-11].
19:59:24 <Zakim> -SteveS
19:59:28 <Zakim> -pfps
20:00:07 <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
20:00:07 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
20:00:07 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pfps, +1.408.554.aabb, ericP, hknublau, Arnaud, +1.201.748.aacc, SimonSteyskal, jimkont, SteveS, Arthur_Ryman, magyarblip, [IPcaller]
<arthur> present: pfps, ericP, hknublau, Arnaud, SimonSteyskal, jimkont, SteveS, Arthur_Ryman, magyarblip
<arthur> regrets: kcoyle
20:00:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:00:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-shapes-minutes.html trackbot
20:00:15 <Zakim> -Arthur_Ryman
20:00:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
20:00:16 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-shapes-actions.rdf :
20:00:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ericP will investigate how to get requirements into the wiki [1]
20:00:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-shapes-irc#T19-40-11
20:00:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hknublau will create a new issue to describe the aspect of ISSUE-3 that discuss the nature of shape resources [2]
20:00:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-shapes-irc#T19-56-02
20:00:16 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pfps to create new wiki page for issue-3, seeded with his email message [3]
20:00:16 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-shapes-irc#T19-58-53
20:00:17 <Zakim> -hknublau
20:00:24 <Zakim> -Arnaud
20:00:27 <Zakim> -SimonSteyskal
20:00:28 <Zakim> -ericP
20:00:31 <Zakim> -magyarblip
20:00:32 <Zakim> -jimkont