IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-12-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:46:58 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:46:58 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-html-a11y-irc
15:47:00 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:47:00 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:47:02 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 2119
15:47:02 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 47 minutes ago
15:47:03 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:47:03 [trackbot]: Date: 04 December 2014
15:47:24 [janina]: agenda?
15:47:30 [janina]: Chair: Janina
15:47:30 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:47:33 [janina]: agenda+ HTML Modularization; e.g. https://specs.webplatform.org/html-aria/webspecs/master/
15:47:36 [janina]: agenda+ Alt Note Status; Shane and Liam
15:47:39 [janina]: agenda+ Media Subteam Update -- Janina, John, Shane
15:47:41 [janina]: agenda+ Canvas 2D Update -- Mark
15:47:44 [janina]: agenda+ Transcript Update -- John
15:47:46 [janina]: agenda+ TF Work Items (HTML.Next)
15:47:49 [janina]: agenda+ Other Business
15:47:51 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Chair and Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:47:54 [janina]: agenda+ be done
15:48:17 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
15:48:24 [Zakim]: +??P2
15:48:35 [janina]: zakim, ??P2 is me
15:48:35 [Zakim]: +janina; got it
15:48:49 [janina]: zakim, next item
15:48:49 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:55:28 [Zakim]: +Liam
15:58:40 [Zakim]: +Joanmarie_Diggs
15:59:41 [LJWatson]: LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
15:59:45 [Zakim]: +JF
15:59:52 [rubys]: rubys has joined #html-a11y
16:00:22 [Zakim]: +Sam
16:00:34 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:00:46 [IanPouncey]: Zakim, IPcaller is me
16:00:47 [Zakim]: +IanPouncey; got it
16:00:51 [JF]: JF has joined #html-a11y
16:01:05 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:01:35 [SteveF]: SteveF has joined #html-a11y
16:02:30 [JF]: scribe: JF
16:02:34 [JF]: agenda?
16:02:43 [JF]: zakim, close item 1
16:02:43 [Zakim]: agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
16:02:46 [Zakim]: I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:02:46 [Zakim]: 2. HTML Modularization; e.g. https://specs.webplatform.org/html-aria/webspecs/master/ [from janina]
16:02:48 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:03:03 [janina]: topic: Image Description (Longdesc) Update
16:03:12 [janina]: http://www.w3.org/TR/html-longdesc/
16:03:28 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:03:55 [JF]: JS: likely not yet announced, but Image Description is now Proposed Rec at URL posted
16:04:06 [LJWatson]: zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:04:06 [Zakim]: +LJWatson; got it
16:04:18 [Zakim]: +Judy
16:04:45 [Zakim]: +ShaneM
16:04:57 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:04:57 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "HTML Modularization; e.g. https://specs.webplatform.org/html-aria/webspecs/master/" taken up [from janina]
16:05:09 [ShaneM]: ShaneM has joined #html-a11y
16:07:28 [JF]: JS: asking about what this document is. Looks like an excerpt from HTML5 / ARIA content
16:07:42 [JF]: thanking Steve F for attending for clarification
16:08:02 [JF]: curious to understand how, what, were, why?
16:08:15 [JF]: i.e. how do we understand this and contribute to this?
16:08:41 [plh]: plh has joined #html-a11y
16:08:49 [Zakim]: +Plh
16:09:18 [JF]: JS: Perhaps SAm (who is on call) may want to go first
16:10:02 [JF]: SR: yes, this now makes Last Call optional, but it is in experimentation mode, so there remains some open questions, but essentially the same procss minus Last CAll
16:10:19 [JF]: JS: note that it is on a different site, curious of impact on that
16:10:38 [JF]: SR: This is very much an experiment, so it is not clear what things may bring
16:10:49 [JF]: SF: this is essentially an unofficial editors document
16:10:58 [janina]: q?
16:11:12 [JF]: SF: for this to become a WG deliverable, at that time there may be more process added
16:11:14 [rubys]: https://github.com/webspecs/url/blob/develop/docs/workmode.md#preface
16:11:53 [JF]: SR: this outlines how we may apply a process to this. circulating the above proposal and soliciting feedback
16:12:24 [JF]: SF: through discussions at TPAC and prior, looking at something to start the modularization process roling
16:12:44 [JF]: one item here is that there is very little dependancies here, making it an easy place to start
16:13:28 [JF]: SF: another point is that it defines certain mapping requirements - those requirements are removed from this new document, as they are defined elsewhere
16:14:10 [JF]: SF: this may not yet be very clear, as this is a very early rough draft - still working things out, including getting to know the system - very much a work in progress
16:14:51 [JF]: SR: agree, work in progress - seeking feedback. Timing now however is good to start looking at this as an alternative
16:15:03 [Judy]: q+
16:15:25 [JF]: JS: can almost predict that with HTML5.0 being finished, it is a good time to start rethinking things and proposing new ideas
16:15:48 [JF]: JS: if I am to understand steve, this makes it easier to break out this
16:16:29 [JF]: SR: definately different definition than extension spec currently understood. rather it is about multi-thread authoring
16:16:40 [janina]: q?
16:16:45 [JF]: SR: different contributors working at different speeds
16:16:45 [janina]: ack j
16:16:49 [rubys]: s/extension spec/xhtml modularization/
16:16:51 [JF]: JB: a few questions
16:17:00 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
16:17:28 [JF]: JB: know that PFWG worked hard to have ARIA integrated into HTML spec
16:17:44 [JF]: JB: curious if the reasoning for that has changed
16:18:38 [JF]: JB: second question - seeing a lot of new work on ARIA in PF, and it is still easy for things to get fragmented. Will this approach undue that integration?
16:19:24 [JF]: JB: third question - question around current copyright statement there - may not match how ARIA is currently published
16:19:46 [JF]: JB: that may be easy to iron out via email, but first two questions are more open
16:20:28 [JF]: SR: First, this is very different kind of modularization - recognizes HTML5 as an umbrella spec
16:20:53 [JF]: SR: reminder as well that this is an exploration by STeve - no decision has been made, this is just an exploration
16:21:34 [JF]: JB: want to circle back - given that ARIA is coming from PF, shouldn't this be a jont effort?
16:22:05 [JF]: SF: the work in the HTML5 specification happened inside of that WG - with contributions from many of the same actors
16:22:06 [Judy]: s/are more open/I'm more hoping for discussion on here/
16:22:13 [JF]: but the work happened in the HTML WG
16:22:39 [janina]: q+ to say others may disagree whether ARIA was developed first in PF or HTML
16:23:10 [JF]: Currently the HTML spec has embedded in it a note that there are certain dependancies/requiremenst for ARIA implementation and the spec points back to the WAI-ARIA spec
16:23:39 [JF]: so actual implementation requirements are the only requirements in the document, likely bvelong in the mapping specification
16:23:53 [JF]: that specification is jointly published by PF and HTML WGs
16:24:16 [janina]: Doing pretty well, JF, thanks!
16:24:52 [janina]: q?
16:25:21 [JF]: SF: in the general sense, it is not just this part of the spec taht is being pulled out, but rather the start of a proces to pull out a lot of the pieces out to allow them to be worked on asyncronously
16:26:09 [JF]: SF: re: copyright issue - that should be something that Robin could better respond to when he returns (he is out for unspecified time)
16:26:33 [JF]: SF: however based on some earlier discussion, believes that the copyright issue is not an issue
16:27:03 [JF]: JS: want to note that some may disagree that ARIA was developed in the HTML WG
16:27:09 [JF]: there is a lot more nuance there
16:27:52 [JF]: SF: the content used in the HTML spec, has been edited as part of the HTML spec, so if there is a bug there it comes through the HTMLW G bug system
16:28:15 [JF]: JS: yes, however there is a history.
16:29:07 [JF]: JS: one question is, wouldn't it make sense to label the web-platform doc that it is an experiment, so that it is clear what is happening?
16:29:17 [JF]: just a suggestion to clarify that
16:29:39 [JF]: SF: yes - again, that is being coordinated
16:29:50 [janina]: q?
16:29:54 [JF]: being driven by folks like Robin B and Mike S
16:29:56 [janina]: ack ja
16:29:56 [Zakim]: janina, you wanted to say others may disagree whether ARIA was developed first in PF or HTML
16:30:23 [JF]: SF: looking for the document that outlines the thinking behind this
16:30:54 [JF]: PLH: the whole webplatform effort is very much a work in progress
16:31:09 [SteveF]: https://specs.webplatform.org/docs/
16:31:50 [JF]: believe that folks like Robin will take all suggestions - feels like trying to frame a moving effort. Providing feedback encouraged, but we don't want to box things in too much as it is very fluid now
16:32:19 [JF]: SF: agree that adding some "experimental language" notice would make sense
16:33:01 [JF]: SF: there is content being added all the time - a work in progress
16:33:45 [JF]: JS: are there other little pieces of HTML5 that are in process taht may drift over to webplatform.org
16:34:04 [JF]: SF: haven't started yet, but looking to move all the elements work over there
16:34:42 [JF]: looking to improve author conformance and author advice. This will be a much larger work-effort here, and not suggesting that there will be a lot of changes
16:35:13 [JF]: but it is looking at a better presentation - it will be more developer/author-centric in the explanation and presentation
16:35:38 [JF]: SF: so it will be a "style" change as much
16:35:57 [JF]: SF: that will start to emerge over the next couple of months
16:36:14 [janina]: q?
16:36:16 [JF]: what I've been trying is using ARIA as the test experiment now
16:36:52 [rubys]: s/taht/that/
16:38:09 [janina]: q?
16:38:40 [JF]: SR: notice a lot of process problems, and this is an attempt to address some of those issues
16:38:50 [JF]: ack LI
16:38:50 [Zakim]: liam, you wanted to note we're on www.w3.org now
16:38:51 [janina]: ack li
16:39:03 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:39:03 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Alt Note Status; Shane and Liam" taken up [from janina]
16:39:06 [liam]: [longdesc now on www.w3.org homepage]
16:39:14 [SteveF]: JF: minutes look fine - thanks!
16:39:40 [Zakim]: -steve
16:39:56 [JF]: SM: STeve and I will be filing bugs as we go - slight delay due to US Holiday
16:40:10 [JF]: SM: it is an ongoing process
16:40:22 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:40:22 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Media Subteam Update -- Janina, John, Shane" taken up [from janina]
16:41:00 [JF]: JS: just received some new comments from BBC this week. next meeting is next monday, and we will look at them at that time
16:41:14 [JF]: goal is to get MAUR published as a W3C NOte
16:41:32 [JF]: good to have solid implementor feedback
16:42:01 [JF]: JS: want to note that when PF met with Web and TV IG, we had a request for some best practices implementation
16:42:22 [JF]: JS: so hope to follow up on that with BBC. There was interest in Clean Audio
16:43:10 [JF]: Ian P: Clean Audio came out of BBC R&D - will attempt to get more feedback and will report back next week
16:43:20 [janina]: janina has joined #html-a11y
16:43:48 [JF]: JS: Nigel is participating in the media sub-team, so we can follow up directly with him
16:44:25 [JF]: JS: hoping to get all comment feedback out over the next few weeks. May delay a bit, but no more than a month - perhaps publish by end of January
16:44:58 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:44:58 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Canvas 2D Update -- Mark" taken up [from janina]
16:45:29 [JF]: JS: defer since MarkS sent regrets
16:45:35 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:45:35 [Zakim]: agendum 5 was just opened, JF
16:45:41 [JF]: zakim, close item 5
16:45:41 [Zakim]: agendum 5, Canvas 2D Update -- Mark, closed
16:45:42 [Zakim]: I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:45:42 [Zakim]: 6. Transcript Update -- John [from janina]
16:45:51 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:45:51 [Zakim]: agendum 6. "Transcript Update -- John" taken up [from janina]
16:46:13 [JF]: JS: believe I know the story, but please go
16:49:30 [janina]: < janina> scribe: janina
16:49:30 [janina]: < janina> jf: Transcript was left unresolved in 5.0; We don't have a programatic way to associate a transcript with media
16:49:33 [janina]: < janina> jf: It remains on us in the TF
16:49:36 [janina]: < janina> jf: We do have a couple proposals, include an element, or an attribute, and a one other -- not recalling at the moment
16:49:39 [janina]: < joanie> janina: wrong channel
16:49:41 [janina]: < janina> jf: Work will now move forward in the Media Subteam after the MAUR closes
16:50:04 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:50:04 [Zakim]: agendum 7. "TF Work Items (HTML.Next)" taken up [from janina]
16:50:39 [JF]: JS: Chaals is not here - no other work in progress that requires any update. Chaals is working on accesskey
16:50:46 [JF]: zakim, close item 7
16:50:47 [Zakim]: agendum 7, TF Work Items (HTML.Next), closed
16:50:47 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:50:47 [Zakim]: 8. Other Business [from janina]
16:50:50 [JF]: zakim, next item
16:50:50 [Zakim]: agendum 8. "Other Business" taken up [from janina]
16:52:05 [JF]: JS: however both JS and Chaals will not be available next Thursday - asking Liam to chair that call, but there is a possibility that the meeting may be cancelled if Liam cannot take the baton
16:52:26 [Zakim]: -LJWatson
16:52:28 [Zakim]: -Plh
16:52:29 [Zakim]: -Sam
16:52:29 [Zakim]: -Joanmarie_Diggs
16:52:30 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
16:52:32 [Zakim]: -ShaneM
16:52:33 [Zakim]: -IanPouncey
16:52:33 [Zakim]: -janina
16:52:35 [Zakim]: -Liam
16:52:39 [Zakim]: -JF
16:52:40 [JF]: rrsagent, make logs public
16:52:45 [Zakim]: -Judy
16:52:48 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:52:48 [Zakim]: Attendees were janina, Liam, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF, Sam, IanPouncey, steve, LJWatson, Judy, ShaneM, Plh, Cynthia_Shelly
16:52:52 [JF]: rrsagent, draft minutes
16:52:52 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/04-html-a11y-minutes.html JF
16:53:01 [JF]: zakim, please part
16:53:01 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #html-a11y
16:53:11 [JF]: rrsagent, please part
16:53:11 [RRSAgent]: I see no action items