IRC log of wai-wcag on 2014-12-02

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:53:43 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:43 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-irc
15:53:45 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:53:47 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:53:47 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:48 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:53:48 [trackbot]
Date: 02 December 2014
15:54:30 [Kenny]
Chair: Josh
15:54:44 [Kenny]
zakim, clean agenda
15:54:44 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'clean agenda', Kenny
15:54:48 [Kenny]
zakim, clean agenda?
15:54:48 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, Kenny.
15:54:59 [Kenny]
zakim, clear agenda
15:54:59 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
15:55:56 [Kenny]
agenda+ add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis
15:56:17 [Joshue]
Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
15:56:31 [Joshue]
zakim, agenda?
15:56:31 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:56:32 [Zakim]
1. add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from Kenny]
15:56:58 [Kenny]
agenda+ survey review
15:57:22 [Kenny]
hi, Joshue, item added, and kick start trackbot
15:57:48 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:57:55 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:57:58 [Joshue]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:57:58 [Zakim]
+Joshue; got it
15:58:08 [Joshue]
Chair: AWK
15:58:12 [Joshue]
Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:58:20 [yatil]
zakim, call EricE-Skype
15:58:20 [Zakim]
ok, yatil; the call is being made
15:58:21 [Zakim]
+EricE
15:58:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.766.aaaa
15:58:44 [Zakim]
+??P5
15:58:45 [Zakim]
- +1.617.766.aaaa
15:58:49 [yatil]
zakim, nick yatil is EricE
15:58:49 [Zakim]
ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
15:59:02 [Zakim]
+ +1.617.766.aabb
15:59:17 [yatil]
Zakim, aabb is AWK
15:59:17 [Zakim]
+AWK; got it
15:59:44 [yatil]
zakim, mute me
15:59:45 [Zakim]
EricE should now be muted
15:59:55 [AWK]
Zakim, agenda?
15:59:56 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:59:57 [Zakim]
1. add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis [from Kenny]
15:59:57 [Zakim]
2. survey review [from Kenny]
16:00:52 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014OctDec/0135.html
16:01:44 [Zakim]
+Kenny
16:01:52 [Zakim]
+Marc_Johlic
16:01:59 [marcjohlic]
marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:06 [Mike_Elledge]
Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:28 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:02:43 [Joshue]
zakim, mute me
16:02:43 [Zakim]
Joshue should now be muted
16:02:54 [Zakim]
+ +1.313.390.aacc
16:03:34 [AWK]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:34 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Joshue (muted), EricE (muted), Michael_Cooper, AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.313.390.aacc
16:03:54 [AWK]
Zakim, aacc is Mike_Elledge
16:03:55 [Zakim]
+Mike_Elledge; got it
16:04:08 [Ryladog_]
Ryladog_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:05:07 [Ryladog_]
Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
16:05:08 [AWK]
Scribe: Katie
16:05:16 [Ryladog_]
ScribeNick: Ryladog
16:05:24 [Ryladog_]
Meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference
16:05:31 [Ryladog_]
Chair: Andrew Kirkpatrick
16:05:47 [Ryladog_]
rrsagent, pointer?
16:05:47 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-irc#T16-05-47
16:06:01 [Ryladog_]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:06:05 [Kathy]
Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:18 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: US Section 508 Access Board
16:06:38 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
16:07:00 [AWK]
Update: "We are still in dialog with OMB on the regulatory impact analysis"
16:07:04 [Zakim]
+Kathy_Wahlbin
16:07:05 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Update from the Access Board is that there is still work to do
16:07:39 [Ryladog_]
AWK: No obstructions just more due diligence
16:08:03 [MoeKraft]
MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
16:08:25 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:08:35 [Loretta]
zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
16:08:35 [Zakim]
+Loretta; got it
16:08:50 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Settlement from DOJ in March 2015 - they are asking PeaPod to address Accessibility on their website and that WCAG is the way for Peapod to do that
16:09:07 [AWK]
Zakim, take up item 1
16:09:07 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "add input on the Quickref update https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis" taken up [from Kenny]
16:09:18 [yatil]
ack me
16:09:26 [Ryladog_]
zakin, next item
16:09:33 [Joshue]
ack me
16:09:39 [Ryladog_]
zakim, next item
16:09:39 [Zakim]
agendum 1 was just opened, Ryladog_
16:10:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.978.899.aadd
16:10:28 [Ryladog_]
JO: Erik did a tidy up
16:10:56 [Ryladog_]
EE: I have put the use cases into tasks
16:10:59 [AWK]
Zakim, aadd is Kathy
16:10:59 [Zakim]
+Kathy; got it
16:11:25 [yatil]
https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Resource_Redesign/Quickref/Analysis#Tasks
16:11:26 [Ryladog_]
EE: also added some functionality
16:12:03 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Does anyone want to add comments to this document
16:12:10 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
16:12:10 [MoeKraft]
Zakim, aadd is MoeKraft
16:12:11 [Ryladog_]
JO: On maybe Thusday yes
16:12:12 [Zakim]
sorry, MoeKraft, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:12:25 [Ryladog_]
JO: There are sections you want us to look at
16:12:42 [AWK]
Zakim, 978.899.aadd is MoeKraft
16:12:43 [Ryladog_]
EE: Yes, we want filks to look at the tasks - that would be helpful
16:12:43 [Zakim]
sorry, AWK, I do not recognize a party named '978.899.aadd'
16:12:51 [AWK]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:12:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Joshue, EricE, Michael_Cooper, AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mike_Elledge, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, Kathy
16:13:03 [AWK]
Zakim, Kathy is MoeKraft
16:13:03 [Zakim]
+MoeKraft; got it
16:13:04 [Ryladog_]
EE: We should put the progress into prototyoes
16:13:11 [MoeKraft]
thanks
16:13:42 [yatil]
s/Erik/Eric/
16:13:55 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Great. Did people get a chance to look thru this? Do you know what we expected of you? What would be helpful?
16:14:02 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
16:14:08 [AWK]
ack m
16:14:52 [Ryladog_]
ME: I would like some context. Are we thinking of developing an umbrella for introductory method onhow people would find things
16:15:07 [Joshue]
zakim, mute me
16:15:07 [Zakim]
Joshue should now be muted
16:15:08 [yatil]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/
16:15:09 [AWK]
redesign of http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/
16:15:09 [Joshue]
q?
16:15:13 [Ryladog_]
AWK: This is for the redesign of How To Meet WCAG document - the Quick Ref
16:15:54 [Joshue]
q+
16:15:56 [Ryladog_]
AWK: One of the challenges - redesign opens up other questions. But we need to be careful of scope. We may identify that we need to make
16:16:13 [AWK]
KHS: One of the big issues in the US in trying to get ppl to use WCAG is
16:16:28 [AWK]
...that the people freak out
16:16:43 [AWK]
...BB and I have a course to help people
16:16:55 [jon_avila]
jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:56 [AWK]
...will be 100s of K ppl looking at this once 508 refresh is out
16:17:18 [Zakim]
+jon_avila
16:17:20 [AWK]
... especially with WCAG2ICT bringing in SW also
16:17:34 [Joshue]
ack me
16:17:35 [AWK]
ack j
16:18:09 [Ryladog_]
JO: Question Eric I see that you have a list of 12 or 13 tasks. Are you thinking we might need to add more tasks?
16:18:20 [Ryladog_]
EE: Yes and we need to do a prioritization
16:18:42 [jon_avila]
+1
16:18:49 [Ryladog_]
JO: I see #3 - AWK thought this was a good idea - a check-off thing - I like this idea. Thanks Eric
16:19:18 [Kathy]
+1
16:19:19 [Ryladog_]
JA: Yes for like images , form etc
16:19:49 [Ryladog_]
AWK: I am doing a site - I dont have tables, I do have forms, I di have images, etc. Getting techniques specific to their content
16:20:04 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
16:20:14 [AWK]
ack mi
16:20:18 [Ryladog_]
AWK; I amnot sure how gradular we want this to be. Do others think this is a good idea?
16:20:32 [Joshue]
s/amnot/am not
16:20:39 [Joshue]
KHS: Absolutely
16:21:06 [Ryladog_]
ME: What about the WCAG 2.0 database - does it have a good search function?
16:21:14 [Joshue]
zakim, mute me
16:21:14 [Zakim]
Joshue should now be muted
16:21:17 [yatil]
q+ to say something about the implementation details
16:21:58 [AWK]
ack erice
16:21:58 [Zakim]
EricE, you wanted to say something about the implementation details
16:21:59 [Ryladog_]
AWK; We could do a directory search capability - I am not sure W3C will allow us to have a Google search box in the DB
16:22:11 [yatil]
ack me
16:22:13 [Ryladog_]
JE: Yes that is the functionality I was thinking of
16:22:48 [Ryladog_]
EE: Well that is what we want but I am unsure that we can do that. We are working on an approach - for some type of exchange format
16:23:16 [Ryladog_]
EE: I am working on a tool. BUt we do not hvae a search functionality capability right now - but we have to loo into that
16:23:20 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
16:23:25 [yatil]
s/loo/look/
16:23:27 [AWK]
ack mi
16:24:33 [Ryladog_]
ME: Techniques section and how to make it more useful - part of the issue is putting information into context - good website format - for sceening out things that werrent relevant. Something like a mock webpage
16:25:04 [Ryladog_]
ME: for some one using a web editor - this is just a thought
16:25:13 [Ryladog_]
AWK: I like the before and after
16:25:46 [yatil]
ack me
16:25:47 [Zakim]
+James_Nurthen
16:25:55 [Ryladog_]
ME: Something that is more interactive - like if you were working on a ttable you could click on it and it would take you to techniques for table etc
16:26:15 [Ryladog_]
EE: That is the plan but we need resources
16:26:52 [Ryladog_]
EE: We want to get to an intuitive UI so filks dont have to know where to go - which they have to do right now
16:27:04 [Joshue]
q?
16:27:07 [Joshue]
q+
16:27:46 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Eric to clarify the task for the WG - they should first look at the list of tasks or should they just go top to bottom?
16:27:55 [Ryladog_]
EE: top to bottom is the way to go
16:28:02 [Joshue]
ack me
16:28:17 [Ryladog_]
JO: I think so as well the tasks are the most important
16:28:42 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:29:00 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Do we have a define list of everthing we think the current QuickRef does?
16:29:14 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:29:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:29:37 [Ryladog_]
JO: Eo said that it doesnt actually do what it was designed to do - but I didnt get what that idea was
16:29:38 [MichaelC]
ack me
16:29:54 [yatil]
s/Eo/EO WG/
16:29:57 [Ryladog_]
MC: stuff we can point to
16:30:28 [Ryladog_]
rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:30:49 [Ryladog_]
AWK; a 10 minute exersize for a first stab
16:30:59 [MichaelC]
ack me
16:31:08 [Ryladog_]
AWK: a 10 minute exersize for a first stab
16:31:11 [yatil]
s/AWK;/AWK:/
16:31:18 [Brent]
Brent has joined #wai-wcag
16:31:20 [yatil]
scribeNick: Ryladog_
16:31:37 [yatil]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:31:42 [Ryladog_]
MC: We can look thru meeting minutes from 10 years ago - but I think it was like a checklist which is what we did with WCAG 1.0
16:31:57 [Ryladog_]
MC: But perhaps we should not worry about that too much
16:32:13 [Ryladog_]
JO: But we should look at that so we do not make any missteps
16:32:25 [Joshue]
zakim, mute me
16:32:25 [Zakim]
Joshue should now be muted
16:32:31 [Ryladog_]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:32:31 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Joshue (muted), EricE, Michael_Cooper (muted), AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mike_Elledge, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, MoeKraft, jon_avila,
16:32:35 [Zakim]
... James_Nurthen
16:32:41 [MoeKraft]
survey
16:32:49 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.276.aaee
16:33:00 [Ryladog_]
AWK: OK we will go with putting our comments on the wiki
16:33:00 [Brent]
zakim, aaee is Brent
16:33:00 [Zakim]
+Brent; got it
16:33:17 [Ryladog_]
zakim, next item
16:33:17 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "survey review" taken up [from Kenny]
16:33:20 [AWK]
Zakim, next item
16:33:20 [Zakim]
agendum 2 was just opened, AWK
16:33:27 [yatil]
z mute
16:33:33 [Ryladog_]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:33:33 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Joshue (muted), EricE, Michael_Cooper (muted), AWK, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mike_Elledge, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, MoeKraft, jon_avila,
16:33:36 [Zakim]
... James_Nurthen, Brent
16:33:46 [Joshue]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/surveyReview/results
16:33:53 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: Survey
16:34:11 [yatil]
Zakim, mute me
16:34:11 [Zakim]
EricE should now be muted
16:34:14 [yatil]
s/z mute//
16:34:51 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Thanks to those who submitted comments
16:35:03 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 1. Please provide any comments on the visual design or informational structure that you feel particularly help or hinder use of the techniques document or of individual techniques.
16:35:18 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Loretta what did you want to say?
16:36:00 [Ryladog_]
LGR: Lots of folks find it hard to navigate, and different kinds of feedback on the design of the docs
16:36:07 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:36:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:36:16 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
16:36:19 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Did you get a sense - what is critical to chamge?
16:37:11 [yatil]
s/ScribeNick: Ryladog/ScribeNick: Ryladog_/
16:37:12 [Ryladog_]
LGR: I would say people were giving their reactions to the questions. Less white space, shorter lines. But in general more things about what is difficlut about the documents
16:37:14 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:37:14 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/12/02-wai-wcag-minutes.html yatil
16:37:31 [Ryladog_]
LGR: I tried to group them in my summary
16:37:37 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Yes I see them
16:37:51 [Ryladog_]
LGR: customization
16:38:24 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 2. Please provide any suggestions you have for changes to make the techniques document more useful or easier to use
16:38:47 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Kathy and Tim. What Tim got was that it was too difficult to search
16:39:00 [Joshue]
ack me
16:39:11 [Ryladog_]
AWK: I am using Chrome that puts everything in this fat font
16:39:14 [Ryladog_]
me too
16:39:32 [Mike_Elledge]
q+
16:39:36 [Joshue]
ack mik
16:39:46 [AWK]
ack m
16:39:50 [Joshue]
zakim, mute me
16:39:50 [Zakim]
Joshue should now be muted
16:40:15 [Ryladog_]
ME: On the first question - it was hard for popel o find the information they were looking for in a quick way
16:40:55 [Ryladog_]
ME: they are not sure how to find the techniques. You have many people coming in with different needs
16:41:38 [Ryladog_]
ME: Most commnets wee about the problems with finding things in WCAG period
16:41:47 [Ryladog_]
AWK; Bacjk to number 2 then...
16:42:35 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Tim said - Users Guide, maybe clearer on how to find techniques,
16:42:39 [yatil]
s/AWK; Bacjk/AWK: Back/
16:42:41 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Kathy?
16:43:23 [Ryladog_]
Kathy: Archived noticed, want more techniques for documents (word, ppt)
16:43:38 [Ryladog_]
Kathy: I summarized
16:44:16 [Ryladog_]
AWK: What I hear out of 1 and 2 are similar stuff - better simpler organizaation. Which validates what we think we know
16:44:27 [Ryladog_]
AWK: This is
16:44:48 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 3. Do you have any suggestions for improvements to the Introduction to Understanding WCAG 2.0 section?
16:44:49 [Joshue]
ack me
16:45:30 [Ryladog_]
JO: The take away - there is too much information - more relevant info - shorter -
16:45:56 [Ryladog_]
JO: and some specific - use introductory space for how to use
16:46:12 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 4. Do you have any suggestions for improvements to the Understanding Techniques for WCAG Success Criteria section?
16:46:25 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Too long to read
16:46:39 [Ryladog_]
JO: Stop letting academics write documentation
16:47:26 [Ryladog_]
Andrew: a question was Why aren't their failure for everything?
16:48:06 [Ryladog_]
JO: I got that there was a lot of wishful thinking folks wanted more techniques and failures
16:49:00 [Ryladog_]
JA: I think we should have a documented failure for each thing that could be a failure. They wanted to see updating and modernizing
16:49:23 [Ryladog_]
Folks didnt want to see techniques mapped to GL they only wanted to see it mapped to SC
16:49:51 [Ryladog_]
q+
16:50:42 [Ryladog_]
KHS: I think we need to cintinue to do that where we have little choice
16:51:12 [Ryladog_]
AWK: We do not want tto have to do that - maybe we will be able to addess this in the neext veersion of out GL
16:51:54 [AWK]
ack ry
16:52:02 [Joshue]
q?
16:52:05 [Ryladog_]
JO: It would be interesting for us to document thoe tech/failure that dont map to specific SC and we are mapping to GL - to work on those gaps
16:52:25 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 5. Please provide any comments on the visual design or informational structure that you feel particularly help or hinder use of the Understanding document.
16:52:55 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Overwhelming was the profound noise. Many said dont change it
16:53:11 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 6. Please provide any suggestions you have for changes to make the techniques document more useful or easier to use.
16:53:15 [Joshue]
zakim, mute me
16:53:15 [Zakim]
Joshue should now be muted
16:53:37 [MichaelC]
ack me
16:53:40 [Ryladog_]
AWK: Reer by handles, not sections. Organized by tasks
16:54:04 [Ryladog_]
MC: The wording was by HTML elements - I would generalize that to tables etc
16:54:19 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 7. Do you have any suggestions for improvements to these sections (of How To Meet)?
16:54:21 [yatil]
ack me
16:54:45 [Ryladog_]
EE: Some details they are not interested in.
16:55:22 [Ryladog_]
AWK: People want to filter and customize and this is in Erics document already as a task
16:55:58 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 8. When customizing the How to Meet WCAG 2.0 resource to show only a specific technology, such as CSS, general techniques are also included. Do you like this? Please provide any comments or thoughts on this behavior you would like to share.
16:56:02 [Ryladog_]
Nothing
16:56:21 [Ryladog_]
TOPIC: 10. Please provide any comments on the visual design or informational structure that you feel particularly help or hinder use of the How to Meet WCAG 2.0 resource
16:57:01 [Ryladog_]
EE: People have a desire to have detail,