15:05:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
15:05:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-irc
15:05:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:05:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #w3process
15:05:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be Process
15:05:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see AB_(PROCESS)10:00AM already started
15:05:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Revising W3C Process Community Group Teleconference
15:05:24 <trackbot> Date: 25 November 2014
15:05:50 <chaals> zakim, code?
15:05:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 7762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chaals
15:06:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:06:43 <chaals> zakim, [ip is me
15:06:43 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
15:07:26 <SteveZ> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveZ, chaals
15:07:36 <Zakim> +Mike_Champion
15:10:38 <SteveZ> chair: SteveZ
15:12:05 <mchampion> mchampion has joined #w3process
15:12:28 <SteveZ> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-w3process/2014Nov/0158.html
15:13:34 <Zakim> -Mike_Champion
15:13:53 <mchampion> Steve, the answer is No
15:14:19 <Zakim> +Mike_Champion
15:14:23 <chaals> zakim, who is here?
15:14:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveZ, chaals, Mike_Champion
15:14:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see mchampion, Zakim, RRSAgent, chaals, SteveZ, jeff, cwilso, timeless, mdjp, trackbot
15:16:33 <chaals> zakim, who is making noise?
15:16:44 <Zakim> chaals, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: SteveZ (95%)
15:18:19 <mchampion> Action items: Steve sent out call for consensus on TAG membership issue
15:18:19 <trackbot> Error finding 'items'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/users>.
15:19:16 <chaals> close action-39
15:19:16 <trackbot> Closed action-39.
15:19:24 <chaals> close action-42
15:19:24 <trackbot> Closed action-42.
15:19:59 <chaals> Topic: ISSUE-129
15:20:00 <mchampion> issue 129 - Steve emailing Judy, who is OK with simplifying coordination group language
15:21:18 <mchampion> There are 4 differences - duration, explicit deliverables, membership criteria, ground rules for termination
15:22:06 <mchampion> Phil Archer's group on data does have a termination group.  So a coordination group could be thought of as an IG with a restricted attendance policy
15:22:29 <chaals> q+
15:23:02 <mchampion> We could just add some language in the process document about escalation path for coordination issues
15:24:13 <mchampion> Charles notes that the requirement for groups to talk to each other is already there.  Adding informal ideal about how to escalate doesn't seem necessary
15:25:06 <mchampion> Steve notes that the main path of escalation is a formal objection, which is overkill
15:26:10 <mchampion> Summarizes -Charles argues that the formal objection mechanism is all that is needed in the process, further detail is unhelpful
15:27:34 <mchampion> q+
15:28:05 <mchampion> ack chaals
15:28:12 <chaals> ack me
15:29:10 <SteveZ> mchampion: are the differences identified are important enough to distinguish CGs from IGS?
15:29:25 <mchampion> Mike asks whether anyone on the call believes the difference between IGs and coord groups is worth preserving both in the process
15:30:04 <mchampion> Charles replies that the difference doesn't justify having both.
15:30:52 <mchampion> Steve - IGs aren't the answer but CGs are not needed.  Judy wants to run this by her group and get back after 12/3.  We can wait until then
15:31:44 <mchampion> Conclusion - we're leaning toward removing coordination groups and not adding anything else to the process document
15:31:57 <mchampion> taking up issue 140
15:32:09 <SteveZ> Issue-140: The description of the Team in Section 2.2 of the process document is out of date<http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/140>
15:32:09 <trackbot> Notes added to Issue-140 The description of the Team in Section 2.2 of the process document is out of date.
15:32:13 <mchampion> topic: issue-140
15:32:17 <chaals> s/taking up/Topic:
15:32:34 <mchampion> Topic: ISSUE-140
15:33:45 <chaals> [assignments to COO/W3C Chair are issue-145 (currently not open)
15:34:19 <mchampion> Steve - soe roles assigned to COO or Chair that need to be moved, let's not lose that material when simplifying 2.2
15:35:09 <mchampion> Charles asks Steve for counterporposal text
15:35:41 <mchampion> Steve - will identify material and write proposal
15:36:25 <mchampion> Steve - the other item is that both the Director and COO/Chair can delegate int he current document, only the Director can delegate in Charles' draft
15:36:45 <Zakim> +Jeff
15:37:16 <jeff> q+
15:37:22 <mchampion> ack mchampion
15:38:07 <timeless> Zakim, code?
15:38:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 7762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), timeless
15:38:08 <mchampion> Charles - referring to the CEO instead of Chair or COO seems a logical choice, but it's not clear we need to
15:38:32 <mchampion> Steve - Everything goes back to the Director anyway, so it's covered
15:38:38 <Zakim> + +1.416.440.aaaa
15:38:40 <jeff> q-
15:38:46 <timeless> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:38:46 <Zakim> +timeless; got it
15:38:49 <timeless> Zakim, mute me
15:38:49 <Zakim> timeless should now be muted
15:39:11 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:39:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:39:23 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:39:24 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:39:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:40:39 <mchampion> ACTION: Steve will confirm that all MUSTS about the team would be covered by delegating from Director
15:40:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Will confirm that all musts about the team would be covered by delegating from director [on Steve Zilles - due 2014-12-02].
15:40:49 <mchampion> Topic: Issue-145
15:40:54 <timeless> s/Topic: issue 140/Topic: ISSUE-140/
15:40:58 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:40:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:41:40 <jeff> q+
15:42:17 <mchampion> Jeff - agrees we should replace non-existent chair with CEO, dont need to talk about COO
15:43:41 <mchampion> Actions ordinarily assigned to Chair should be documented, e.g. when Jeff became CEO there was a question whether he should become chair of the AB.  Similarly there is a question of who chairs the AC meetings
15:43:57 <mchampion> ack jeff
15:44:00 <mchampion> ack chaals
15:44:16 <mchampion> Charles - it's a relatively small amount of text to keep, I can live with it
15:44:31 <mchampion> Steve - Agrees with Jeff, those bits of text are useful
15:45:26 <mchampion> Jeff - I don't feel strongly that it would make it a MUST.
15:45:43 <mchampion> Steve - OK with "ordinarily"
15:46:13 <mchampion> Steve ask Jeff whether those are the only 2 places where the CEO should be mentioned?
15:46:51 <mchampion> Jeff - not proposing any new mentions of chair, coo, or ceo.  As long as we make replacements or thoughtful removals, ok
15:48:43 <timeless> s/(currently not open)/(currently not open)]/
15:48:52 <mchampion> Conclusion - We will change all references from Chair to CE), and preserve instance that have a clear role such as chairing the AC and AB meetings
15:48:55 <timeless> s/soe roles/sole roles/
15:49:40 <mchampion> We can change status of 140 to Pending Review.  No objections
15:49:44 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:49:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
15:50:11 <mchampion> Topic: ISSUE-144
15:50:35 <SteveZ> Issue-144: Chairs are asking for clarification for Wide Review<http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/144>
15:50:35 <trackbot> Notes added to Issue-144 Chairs are asking for clarification for Wide Review.
15:51:41 <mchampion> Charles objected to "Director can consider whether wide review was part of the evaluations"  Not clear what the issue was
15:53:24 <mchampion> Charels- Doesn't feel that proposed change adds any value
15:53:40 <mchampion> Steve- Just want to encourage people to do it sooner rather than later
15:54:08 <timeless> Zakim, unmute me
15:54:08 <Zakim> timeless should no longer be muted
15:54:14 <mchampion> Charles doesn't want to die on this hill... neither does Steve ...
15:55:24 <mchampion> Josh - easiest thing to do would be ask some chairs what would be good enough to satisfy their concerns about the new process
15:56:36 <mchampion> Josh - as someone who does wide review, problem seems to be when WGs don't make progress on the points made in the review
15:57:27 <mchampion> Steve - this is part of the performance of the process, hard to put rules about how to perform well in the process
15:57:52 <mchampion> Steve -asks Charles to put points 1,2, and 4 in the document
15:58:21 <timeless> s/1,/1, /
15:58:27 <timeless> s/-asks/- asks/
15:58:29 <chaals> q+
15:58:40 <mchampion> Steve - no more formal agenda topics
15:59:17 <jeff> q+
15:59:18 <mchampion> The Sam Ruby discussion on how he would like to do joint work with WHATWG is on the table.  DOes anyone see a process issue?
15:59:31 <timeless> s/DOes/Does/
15:59:32 <chaals> q- later
16:00:27 <mchampion> ack jeff
16:01:43 <mchampion> Jeff - What we're doing here is propose process modifications that would be too late to help Sam, Team needs to answer Sam.  Anne has also asked some questions the team needs to answer.  We can address  process issues later
16:02:24 <mchampion> Steve - Summary is that nobody has identified process issues with Sam's proposal
16:02:45 <timeless> Zakim, who is on the call?
16:02:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveZ, chaals, Mike_Champion, Jeff, timeless
16:03:17 <mchampion> Jeff - Other proposals on the thread may require process changes, but we can't assess all of them now
16:04:39 <mchampion> Charles - issues 100 and 93 were raised in response to issues left over from process 2014, we said we would address them in 2015
16:05:12 <mchampion> Steve - 93 seems like it's bigger than a 2015 issue
16:05:38 <timeless> scribe: timeless
16:05:53 <Zakim> -Mike_Champion
16:06:00 <timeless> issue-93?
16:06:00 <trackbot> issue-93 -- What should the requirements be for specifications produced by more than one WG? -- raised
16:06:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/93
16:06:06 <timeless> issue-100?
16:06:06 <trackbot> issue-100 -- Should it be possible to publish a pr before a call for exclusion ends -- raised
16:06:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/issues/100
16:06:41 <timeless> SteveZ: i think we might be able to solve issue-100
16:06:50 <timeless> chaals: it's technically feasible if you get everything perfect
16:06:58 <timeless> ... to get into PR while there's an exclusion open
16:07:05 <timeless> ... i think it's possible to get through PR
16:07:10 <timeless> SteveZ: i don't think so
16:07:24 <timeless> jeff: could we not resolve these on this call, just open them?
16:07:38 <timeless> SteveZ: i will move those two to OPEN
16:07:38 <Zakim> -chaals
16:07:42 <chaals> open issue-100
16:07:47 <Zakim> -Jeff
16:07:52 <timeless> ... who should be the assignee?
16:07:55 <timeless> ... chaals ?
16:08:52 <timeless> i/100 and 93 were raised/Josh - we should send a note welcoming feedback from them for a future version of the process document/
16:08:59 <timeless> i/100 and 93 were raised/SteveZ: +1/
16:09:37 <timeless> i/100 and 93 were raised/Topic: Promised issues raised in AB and transferred here/
16:09:42 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:09:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:10:15 <chaals> s/AB and transferred here/AC review of Process document 2014/
16:10:55 <timeless> i/Steve, the answer is No/scribe: mchampion/
16:11:01 <timeless> s/Steve, the answer is No//
16:11:37 <timeless> s|Error finding 'items'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/community/w3process/track/users>.||
16:12:32 <timeless> i/Action items: Steve/Topic: Review of Action Items/
16:12:47 <timeless> s/Action items: Steve/Steve/
16:12:49 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:12:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:15:00 <timeless> s/termination group/coordination group ("W3C Data Activity")/
16:15:06 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:15:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:16:03 <timeless> s/issue-145/ISSUE-145/
16:16:10 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:16:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:17:42 <timeless> s/issue-145/ISSUE-145/
16:17:44 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:17:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:18:21 <timeless> s|s/issue-145/ISSUE-145/||
16:18:50 <timeless> i/The Sam Ruby discussion/Topic: Sam Ruby's discussion on URL spec/
16:19:15 <timeless> s/Topic: Issue-/Topic: ISSUE-/
16:19:18 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:19:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:20:32 <timeless> s/... chaals ?//
16:20:50 <timeless> s/... who should be the assignee?//
16:20:52 <timeless> [ Adjourned ]
16:20:55 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:20:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:21:36 <timeless> trackbot, end meeting
16:21:36 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:21:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been SteveZ, [IPcaller], chaals, Mike_Champion, Jeff, +1.416.440.aaaa, timeless
16:21:42 <timeless> s/+1.416.440.aaaa, //
16:21:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:21:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html trackbot
16:21:45 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:21:45 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-actions.rdf :
16:21:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: items to Steve sent out call for consensus on TAG membership issue [1]
16:21:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-irc#T15-18-19
16:21:45 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steve will confirm that all MUSTS about the team would be covered by delegating from Director [2]
16:21:45 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-irc#T15-40-39
16:22:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #w3process
16:22:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-irc
16:22:11 <timeless> s/[IPcaller], //
16:22:16 <timeless> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:22:21 <timeless> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:22:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/25-w3process-minutes.html timeless
16:22:40 <timeless> RRSAgent, bye
16:22:40 <RRSAgent> I see no action items