17:53:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:53:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-aria-irc
17:53:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
17:53:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
17:53:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:53:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
17:53:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:53:39 <trackbot> Date: 24 November 2014
17:53:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
17:54:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
17:57:04 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(ARIA)1:00PM has now started
17:57:11 <Zakim> +??P0
17:57:16 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is me
17:57:16 <Zakim> +janina; got it
17:58:28 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
17:58:38 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:58:53 <joanie> Zakim, I am Joanmarie_Diggs
17:58:53 <Zakim> ok, joanie, I now associate you with Joanmarie_Diggs
17:59:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
18:00:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Nov/0260.html
18:01:32 <Zakim> + +1.703.978.aaaa
18:01:36 <Zakim> +??P8
18:01:49 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
18:03:31 <MichaelC> ack me
18:03:58 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
18:04:08 <clown> clown has joined #aria
18:04:49 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Fred_Esch
18:04:49 <Zakim> +Fred_Esch; got it
18:05:06 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
18:05:18 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:05:18 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
18:05:27 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:05:27 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:05:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: fesch
18:06:32 <fesch> janina: revisit timelines
18:08:27 <fesch> mc: Judy is working on getting charter approved - involved to include mappings and update deliverables, ARIA 1.1 CR June 2015
18:09:37 <fesch> rs: have gone through most issues at least once, implementation guide off and running
18:10:03 <fesch> mc: Name computation is seperate spec - can have own timeline
18:10:06 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
18:10:38 <Zakim> + +49.322.110.8.aabb
18:10:41 <clown> q+ to note that, roughly, for every new aria 1.1 feature, there is a new mapping in the core.
18:10:48 <fesch> rs: name computation has dependencies
18:11:53 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
18:12:01 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
18:12:08 <fesch> mc: timelines for mapping guilde could be earlier than aria
18:13:12 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
18:13:35 <fesch> rs: identify things at risk in mapping guide - right away, then can roll into a dot release
18:13:48 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Stefan_Schnabel
18:13:48 <Zakim> +Stefan_Schnabel; got it
18:14:23 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria
18:14:34 <fesch> rs: relationship related stuff is at risk
18:14:46 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
18:14:46 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
18:15:21 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
18:15:26 <fesch> mc: workout timelines for core mappings and accessible name mappings - then work out other mappings
18:16:21 <fesch> rs: what is likelyhood we will get action items done by February?
18:17:21 <fesch> mc: explains new document process (without last call)  - what is the timeline for CR?
18:17:40 <fesch> rs: Thinks can do a June/July time frame for 1.1
18:17:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
18:17:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack Joseph
18:17:55 <Zakim> Joseph_Scheuhammer, you wanted to note that, roughly, for every new aria 1.1 feature, there is a new mapping in the core.
18:17:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
18:19:03 <fesch> js: when we walk through core mapping guide - can have a feedback loop - then need test.  Would like list of what is included in 1.1.
18:20:27 <fesch> rs: doesn't see any new features to 1.1 - based on what we said at face to face meeting
18:21:32 <fesch> general discussion on modal... - with related to 1.1
18:21:32 <Stefan> +q
18:22:12 <fesch> stefan: what about aria-help?
18:22:29 <fesch> rs: believes aria-help got moved to aria 2.
18:23:22 <fesch> stefan: got odd results for experiment
18:24:06 <fesch> stefan: is odd results with role and relationships - is it a bug or not well defined?
18:24:18 <fesch> rs: you do not have to have a role.
18:25:12 <fesch> bg: can have a problem when a label and a role.
18:25:22 <Stefan> +q
18:26:35 <fesch> rs/bg: discussion on labelby
18:27:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
18:27:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack Stefan
18:27:54 <fesch> stefan: role text would like to have an additional description.  When have red letters, red reflects status, experiment with IE.
18:28:25 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#aria-labelledby
18:30:08 <fesch> rs: role not required, for instance a div that is a labeledby does not need a role. Browsers may have inconsistent behavior. MS (IE) has had it as a group for a long time.
18:30:38 <fesch> Stefan: OK with rs answer
18:31:32 <fesch> rs: may not always need a role, especially when native element has a default role
18:32:28 <fesch> bg: spans may be more a problem than things with a native role
18:32:43 <fesch> rs: we need to define a mapping for them
18:33:35 <fesch> rs: June or July should be OK and mark things that are at risk
18:34:19 <fesch> PROPSAL:  move to new process, that does not require a last call
18:34:46 <fesch> mc: CR doubles as last call and CR
18:35:22 <fesch> rs: any objections to proposal?
18:36:02 <fesch> RESOLUTION: move to new recommendation track process which excludes a last call draft.
18:36:51 <joanie> q+ To ask if we resolved to move or resolved to CfC about moving
18:36:57 <fesch> rs: CSUN and vacation - is July ok or do we need more time?
18:37:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> ack Joanmarie
18:37:33 <Zakim> Joanmarie_Diggs, you wanted to ask if we resolved to move or resolved to CfC about moving
18:38:55 <fesch> rs: getting computed role and getting computed label - proposal sent to HTML working group, got kicked out. Never found a home.
18:39:57 <fesch> rs: because css not writing things into the DOM, we will need some of these APIs, we should come up with a plan and have the plan come back to PF>
18:40:14 <jongund> +1
18:40:18 <jongund> +q
18:41:03 <fesch> rs: do we want it in the accessibility API or some other way? Anyway someone needs to write something up.
18:42:04 <fesch> jg: are we worried about event handlers as a class?
18:42:40 <fesch> rs: does anyone know why it got bounced from HTML?
18:42:58 <fesch> janina: I like the idea of getting events under our control!
18:43:17 <fesch> janina: Lets make it as an extension....
18:44:52 <fesch> rs: name computation can be pull aside - any objection?
18:45:57 <fesch> rs: aria 1.1 would not be held up for name computation...
18:46:42 <MichaelC> action: rschwer to research pulling together a group to address some aapi extensions e.g., getcomputedrole
18:46:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1537 - Research pulling together a group to address some aapi extensions e.g., getcomputedrole [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2014-12-01].
18:47:45 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-1537 with product-17
18:47:45 <trackbot> action-1537 (Research pulling together a group to address some aapi extensions e.g., getcomputedrole) associated with product-17.
18:48:20 <fesch> rs: July does not seem to an issue for CR.
18:49:22 <fesch> janina: we might have a 6 month delay
18:50:03 <MichaelC> ¨Recommendation¨
18:50:11 <fesch> mc: does a date of March 2016 for recommendation
18:50:21 <fesch> mc: work?
18:51:05 <fesch> jg: I have a testing group that meets once a week, can do testing.
18:51:48 <fesch> janina: Thanks JG, I know we have a block.
18:53:00 <fesch> mc: other mappings would be on a later timeline, HTML and SVG later.   Core and HTML on earlier timeline.
18:54:02 <fesch> rs: firefox has not been looking at SVG for a while.  Apple and chrome have are ahead. SVG may be later.
18:54:22 <fesch> rs: want a SVG draft in Q1 2015.
18:56:15 <fesch> rs: aria 1.1 should be in time for HTML 5.1
18:56:31 <fesch> janina: is very pleased :)
18:58:02 <fesch> mc: charter - standard 3 years
18:58:53 <fesch> janina: will get new name - API
18:59:44 <fesch> janina: PF -> Accessible Platform Architectures WG
19:01:34 <MichaelC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-a11y/ public-svg-a11y list
19:04:19 <fesch> rs: discussed organizing SVG accessibility task force
19:04:28 <fesch> action 1520:
19:04:44 <newtron> newtron has joined #aria
19:05:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2014Nov/0103.html
19:05:21 <clown> action-1520?
19:05:21 <trackbot> action-1520 -- Jon Gunderson to Create a definition of "value" as per issue-679 -- due 2014-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
19:05:21 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1520
19:05:32 <clown> issue-679?
19:05:32 <trackbot> issue-679 -- Glossary definition of value is inaccurate -- raised
19:05:32 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/679
19:07:19 <clown> A literal that solidifies the information expressed by a state, property, role, or text content.
19:07:35 <clown> the above is the text of the current glossary entry
19:08:19 <fesch> rs: JS do we want to call this the value of a control?
19:09:00 <fesch> JS: the glossary rule appears to not be the value of control. In that case Jon is on track.
19:10:33 <fesch> rs: we can change the definition of value (as Jon has defined it) and add value of control which we would need.
19:11:58 <fesch> jg: will make another defintion for value of control.
19:13:09 <fesch> joseph: will have a working draft of name computation and core mapping spec - and give them to MC.
19:13:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/623
19:14:30 <fesch> rs: I believe that we do not want inert and will go with modal.  Does JD have any actions for modal?
19:14:35 <clown> s/will have a working draft of/will have a final version of the editors' draft to use to make the working draft of/
19:14:45 <clown> issue-623
19:14:45 <trackbot> issue-623 -- Consider aria-inert for disambiguation of modal states (re: html|*@inert) -- open
19:14:45 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/623
19:15:13 <MichaelC> ack me
19:15:31 <clown> issue-568
19:15:31 <trackbot> issue-568 -- Introduce system modal attributes for dialogs -- open
19:15:31 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/568
19:15:52 <clown> action-1347
19:15:52 <trackbot> action-1347 -- James Craig to Add an attribute for differentiating modal vs non-modal dialogs/menus/etc. (possibly aria-modal) -- due 2014-10-07 -- CLOSED
19:15:52 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1347
19:16:06 <fesch> RESOLUTION: close issue 623 in favor of using an aria-modal state.
19:16:10 <MichaelC> ack me
19:18:46 <fesch> JN: need two weeks for action.
19:19:14 <clown> action-1438
19:19:14 <trackbot> action-1438 -- Michael Cooper to Set up auto publish to GH Pages for editors' drafts https://pages.github.com -- due 2014-10-15 -- OPEN
19:19:14 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1438
19:19:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1438
19:19:30 <MichaelC> ack me
19:19:34 <MichaelC> ack me
19:19:34 <MichaelC> ack me
19:19:34 <MichaelC> ack me
19:21:02 <fesch> rs: JD is the queen of github.
19:21:18 <joanie> jd: git; nto git hub.
19:21:23 <joanie> s/nto/not/
19:21:33 <joanie> s/git hub/github/
19:22:01 <clown> action-1440?
19:22:01 <trackbot> action-1440 -- Joanmarie Diggs to landmarks section uses "region of page" in prose even though "region" is not a landmark -- due 2014-10-06 -- OPEN
19:22:01 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1440
19:22:46 <clown> https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/467345068287090688
19:22:53 <joanie> 1. http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#region
19:22:55 <joanie> Current text: "When defining regions of a web page, authors are advised to consider using standard document landmark roles. If the definitions of these regions are inadequate, authors can use the region role and provide the appropriate accessible name."
19:23:41 <joanie> Proposed text: "A region is not a navigational landmark. Content authors SHOULD use standard document landmark roles for regions which are meant to be treated as landmarks."
19:24:37 <fesch> rs: at IBM we use region as a landmark.
19:24:39 <joanie> https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/467345068287090688
19:26:55 <fesch> joseph: listed subclass of regions
19:27:08 <fesch> jg: quoted HTML use of region
19:27:14 <clown> region role's subclasses:  alret, article grid, landmark, list, log, status, tabpanel
19:27:38 <fesch> s/alret/alert/
19:29:20 <clown> landmark role is abstract, and its subclasses are: application, banner, complementary, contentinfo, form, main, navigation, search.
19:29:58 <jongund> I need to go
19:30:39 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
19:30:47 <fesch> rs: will resume landmarks next week
19:30:50 <MichaelC> ack me
19:31:52 <Zakim> -Stefan_Schnabel
19:31:59 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
19:32:25 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
19:32:27 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
19:32:27 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
19:32:28 <Zakim> -Joseph_Scheuhammer
19:32:28 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
19:32:42 <fesch> zakim, bye
19:32:42 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, +1.703.978.aaaa, Michael_Cooper, Jon_Gunderson, Fred_Esch, Joseph_Scheuhammer,
19:32:42 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
19:32:45 <Zakim> ... +49.322.110.8.aabb, James_Nurthen, Bryan_Garaventa, Stefan_Schnabel
19:32:58 <fesch> rrsagent, make minutes
19:32:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/24-aria-minutes.html fesch
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