17:31:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:31:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/21-aria-apg-irc
17:31:54 <LJWatson> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:31:54 <Zakim> sorry, LJWatson, I don't know what conference this is
17:31:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, LJWatson, mattking, trackbot
17:32:02 <LJWatson> zakim, this is 92473
17:32:02 <Zakim> ok, LJWatson; that matches WAI_PF()12:30PM
17:32:09 <LJWatson> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:32:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.217.244.aaaa, Matt_King, [IPcaller]
17:32:20 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
17:32:20 <Zakim> +LJWatson; got it
17:32:30 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
17:33:26 <Jemma> Jemma has joined #aria-apg
17:33:27 <Jemma> hi!
17:34:15 <LJWatson> zakim, +1.217.244.aaaa is Jemma
17:34:15 <Zakim> +Jemma; got it
17:34:42 <mattking> zakim, who is on the phone
17:34:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', mattking
17:35:13 <Jemma> I will be back in 2 min.
17:35:19 <mattking> scribe: mattking
17:37:18 <Jemma> I am back to meeting
17:40:00 <mattking> List of APG 1.1 bugs:
17:40:02 <mattking> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?cmdtype=runnamed&list_id=47716&namedcmd=APG%201.1%20-%20open%20bugs
17:42:01 <mattking> TOPIC: radio button pattern
17:43:02 <mattking> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#radiobutton
17:43:15 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
17:45:20 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aria-apg
17:45:43 <mattking> JN: pattern named radio button but it is all about radio group. Should we change  the pattern name?
17:45:44 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
17:45:44 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
17:47:17 <mattking> JN: there is one model where we do not have normal group behavior: radios at beginning of each row of a table used for selection.
17:48:45 <mattking> MK: one special case where it works in a table; nothing in the table gets keyboard focus except for the radios.
17:49:05 <mattking> JN: take the special case of the table and describe what is the normal case.
17:49:11 <mattking> LW: agree
17:49:59 <mattking> JN: we could add a note about the special case.
17:51:32 <Jemma> sure
17:52:03 <mattking> RESOLUTION: change name to "Radio Group"
17:54:02 <mattking> JN: need a description for radio group. current description uses words like single-select and list.
17:54:15 <mattking> Current description is "An option in single-select list "
17:56:09 <Jemma> Bryan, can you share the github link here?
17:57:43 <mattking> MK: is it really a best practice that you can move without selecting by using ctrl+arrow?
17:57:54 <mattking> Others: never heard of that before.
17:58:04 <mattking> JN: should it wrap?
17:58:12 <mattking> GB: browser dependent
17:58:44 <mattking> JN: Firefox puts all buttons in group in tab order if none are selected.
17:58:55 <mattking> MK: I think that is a FF but.
17:59:13 <mattking> JN: Chrome is nowt wrapping with native radios
17:59:27 <mattking> s/note/not/
17:59:47 <mattking> MK: I think we should keep wrapping.
18:00:21 <mattking> MK: should we strike the ctrl+arrow behavior?
18:01:10 <Jemma> agree
18:01:21 <Zakim> -LJWatson
18:01:22 <mattking> RESOLUTION: strike the ctrl+arrow behavior
18:06:10 <mattking> BG: the logic of shift+tab and tab giving focus to diff buttons is complicated
18:07:25 <mattking> BG: recommend that tabindex=0 go on the selected button, and if none is selected, it goes on the first one.
18:09:23 <mattking> JN: this is different from most browsers with native radios
18:09:34 <mattking> JN: we should have a note to that effect.
18:10:06 <mattking> BG and MK: agree that it is more intuitive for  screen reader users for forward and back tab to be consistent.
18:10:27 <mattking> JN: ease of implementation can also be a justification for this approach.
18:13:27 <mattking> RESOLUTION: first button in group will get focus regardless of tabbing direction when none are selected. the selected button will get focus otherwise. A note regarding difference from typical UA behvior will be added.
18:14:17 <jamesn_> jamesn_ has joined #aria-apg
18:14:27 <jamesn_> rrsagent, make minutes
18:14:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/21-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn_
18:16:56 <jamesn_> rrsagent, make log world
18:17:05 <jamesn_> rrsagent, make minutes
18:17:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/21-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn_
18:17:36 <jamesn_> Meeting: ARIA Practices TF
18:18:18 <mattking> MK: what about this point: • If an image is used to render the state of a radio button, the image element does not appear in the accessibility API mapping. This is accomplished using CSS to render the image as a background image, or by setting role="presentation" on the image.
18:20:28 <mattking> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/#radiobutton
18:23:45 <mattking> JN: Do we need to specify that aria-checked = false is needed; the spec makes it implicit.
18:26:02 <mattking> JN: OK to leave the checked = false as written.
18:35:20 <mattking> BG: Do not recommend using role presentation to hide images
18:35:37 <mattking> Mk: do not recommend bg images due to effect on high contrast mode
18:35:47 <mattking> MK: do we want to strike or fix this?
18:36:33 <mattking> JN: do we need a section that talks about how to remove elements from the a11y tree?
18:36:48 <mattking> JN: we do not have a note like this in the checkbox pattern.
18:37:42 <mattking> MK: I think we should strike the note and use examples that use images
18:37:55 <mattking> JN: there is a note like this in checkbox.
18:38:02 <mattking> BG: that note is not clear either.
18:41:36 <mattking> RESOLUTION: create example implementations of the checkbox and radio group patterns that demonstrate how to implement with images and CSS rendering, and strike the bullets on that topic from the design pattern text.
18:44:22 <mattking> ACTION create example implementations of radio group and checkbox that use CSS content images to render states
18:44:22 <trackbot> Error finding 'create'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
18:44:59 <Jemma> sounds good
18:48:19 <jamesn_> rrsagent, make minutes
18:48:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/21-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn_
18:49:15 <mattking> TOPIC: Next meeting
18:49:25 <mattking> agenda will include spin button and menu
18:49:33 <mattking> 2 weeks from today
18:49:40 <mattking> no meeting on Nov 28.
18:49:56 <mattking> rrsagent, make minutes
18:49:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/21-aria-apg-minutes.html mattking
18:52:27 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
18:52:31 <Zakim> -Bryan_Garaventa
18:52:33 <Zakim> -Matt_King
18:52:36 <Zakim> -Jemma
18:52:38 <Zakim> WAI_PF()12:30PM has ended
18:52:38 <Zakim> Attendees were Matt_King, LJWatson, James_Nurthen, Jemma, Bryan_Garaventa
18:52:38 <mattking> zakim, bye
18:52:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:52:54 <mattking> rrsagent, make minuges
18:52:54 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minuges', mattking.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:53:06 <mattking> rrsagent, make minutes
18:53:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/21-aria-apg-minutes.html mattking