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13:52:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/19-dacg-irc
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13:52:47 <phila> zakim, this will be dacg
13:52:47 <Zakim> ok, phila; I see DATA_DACG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
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13:56:23 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:56:56 <Zakim> DATA_DACG()9:00AM has now started
13:57:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:57:06 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker (was [IPcaller])
13:57:24 <Sebastian> Sebastian has joined #dacg
13:58:00 <ivan> ivan has joined #dacg
13:58:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:58:17 <phila> zakim, ipcaller is me
13:58:17 <Zakim> +phila; got it
13:59:25 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
13:59:40 <yaso> Zakim, GVoice is yaso
13:59:40 <Zakim> +yaso; got it
13:59:53 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
13:59:53 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
13:59:54 <Zakim> +Ivan
13:59:58 <yaso> Hi Phil! Can you hear me?
14:00:12 <ivan> zakim, drop me
14:00:12 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
14:00:14 <Zakim> -Ivan
14:00:31 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:00:31 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:00:32 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:01:43 <Zakim> +Kerstin_Forsberg
14:01:56 <Zakim> +David_Wood
14:03:00 <Kerstin> Kerstin has joined #dacg
14:03:07 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #dacg
14:03:52 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:03:52 <yaso> yes
14:04:01 <Zakim> -yaso
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14:05:46 <phila> Topic: Round the table
14:05:48 <phila> scribe: phila
14:05:54 <phila> scribeNick: phila
14:06:17 <phila> ivan: WE had a pretty good TPAC meeting for CSVW. Made a plan for hwo to move forward
14:06:25 <phila> ... which meant cutting back on what we can achieve
14:06:35 <phila> s/WE/We/
14:06:43 <phila> ... mappings to JSON and RDF will be relatively simple.
14:06:57 <phila> ... we played for a long time with doing something more complicated, a template language etc.
14:07:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:07:11 <phila> ... testing etc would go way beyond that the group can achieve
14:07:18 <yaso> Zakim, IPcaller is yaso
14:07:18 <Zakim> +yaso; got it
14:07:22 <phila> ... so bunch of disucssion going on now
14:07:43 <phila> ivan: Interesting point - the charter says we should make a simple mapping to XML, but there's no one in the Wg to do it.
14:08:07 <phila> ... can't find anyone outside the WG whi wants to do it either. Norm Walsh *might* be interested though
14:08:14 <phila> ... no interest -> no standard to XML
14:08:19 <phila> ... and the world won't colleapse
14:08:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:08:51 <phila> Kerstin: On HCLS
14:09:26 <phila> Kerstin: Trying to participate in the group but don't know bigger picture
14:09:46 <phila> ... last 2 meetings joined with HL7 with David Booth. he's showing how to use RDF as an enabler
14:10:04 <phila> ... HL7 getting their act together on RDF - very good news
14:10:11 <phila> ... brinbging people in from Pharma
14:10:36 <phila> ... meeteing yesterday had participates from ?? connected with FDA and pharma users/industry
14:10:57 <phila> ... have been working on core standards for clinical trials data
14:11:09 <phila> ... really interesting from diff perspectives, not just HL7
14:11:37 <phila> ... Fire breaking away from XML, but all of these diff strands. Eric P remains key person
14:12:39 <phila> phila: Does that chime with work in DC, David?
14:13:06 <phila> davidwood: We should pay attention to Kerstin. We have probs and tech solutions but not necessarily political cover
14:13:20 <phila> ... technically there's a tremendous potential
14:14:08 <phila> tbaker: On Data Shapes
14:14:23 <phila> ... There are groups that are jockying for position in the group
14:14:34 <phila> ... our concern is that the Cultural Heritage community is represented
14:14:45 <phila> ... a lot of the UCs are in other areas
14:15:09 <Kerstin> Exxellent ongoing webinar serie on the HL7, W3C work http://semanticweb.com/webinar-yosemite-project-part-1-rdf-roadmap-healthcare-information-interoperability-video_b44757 with David Booth
14:15:41 <phila> tbaker: We're happy that the WG is paying attention to the DB that was developed in the DCMI context
14:15:50 <phila> ... extended to cover areas other than GLAM
14:15:56 <phila> ... so hope that will continue to be useful
14:16:22 <phila> Arnaud: On Data Shapes - Tom's accurate
14:16:43 <phila> ... I've heard people complain that W3C is too far ahead. here we have the opposite. Wait too long and people are too entrenched
14:16:52 <phila> ... we're focussing on UCR
14:17:09 <phila> ... TPAC went well. We had a conversation...
14:17:25 <phila> ... overheard "tomorrow is when strangulation begins" - but actually it went well
14:17:39 <phila> ... diff backgrounds and interests in the tech
14:17:41 <Kerstin> Attendes at the HCLS/HL7 meeting yesterday from UCB (Tim Williams) also enangade also in FDA/PhUSE Semantic technlogy project http://www.phusewiki.org/wiki/index.php?title=Semantic_Technology
14:17:51 <phila> ... people looking for different things. Validation cf. Description
14:18:07 <phila> ... description to do things liike generate the UI - the needs are quite different
14:18:34 <phila> tbaker: I heard that the meeting went well too.
14:18:37 <phila> Arnaud: On LDP
14:18:52 <phila> ... main spec is now at PR - just waiting for meeting with W3M
14:19:03 <phila> ... meanwhile np. implementations has increased. Lots of support
14:19:09 <Kerstin> Also a new attendee, Ingeborg Holt, working for Pinnacle/Open CDISC http://www.pinnacle21.net/ working very close with FDA CDER
14:19:40 <phila> ... we split the spec so that LDP Paging is separate. That's now at CR after 2 LCs - and interest has decreased. Might be stuck in CR for a while
14:19:55 <phila> ... most of the discussion is about LDP II
14:20:00 <phila> ... question what are going to do
14:20:10 <phila> ... we're getting to end of the 6 month extended charter
14:20:18 <Kerstin> Fast Healthcare Interoperability Resources (FHIR, pronounced "Fire") http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=FHIR
14:20:21 <phila> ... making progress on LD PATCH Format
14:20:38 <phila> Arnaud: Everybody wanted it but people couldn't agree on what was needed. I wanted to focus on the main spec
14:20:59 <phila> ... recent F2F people seemed to have an epihany and agree on an approach
14:21:09 <phila> ... 3 people took the task of drafting a solution
14:21:35 <phila> ... but I;m worried it will be a repeat of paging wtih declining interest - hoping to get to LC/CR next week
14:22:00 <ivan> q+
14:22:08 <phila> ack ivan
14:22:34 <phila> ivan: The annotation WG has begun to discuss whether LDP might be a good solution for the protocol work
14:22:38 <phila> ... the annotation WG uses RDF as a model
14:22:55 <phila> ... the only point is that we try and hide that a little by only talking about JSON and JSON-LD
14:23:16 <phila> ... so can LDP use JSON-LD everywhere or are there places where Turtle is required
14:23:29 <phila> Arnaud: You can use JSON-LD everywhere
14:24:01 <phila> ... when we began, using Turtle everywhere looked forweard thinking, it's more recently that JSON-LD came along but we've gone back to add it
14:24:12 <phila> ivan: TNhe Annotation WG is cheering
14:24:34 <phila> ivan: On The Annotation WG
14:24:43 <phila> ... It started a few weeks ago
14:24:52 <phila> ... starts withb Open Annotation Model from a CG
14:25:02 <phila> ... that model is RDRF-based with Turtle everywhere
14:25:29 <phila> ... but annotation works itself has to and wants to go beyond that so we get into how to store annotations separately, a JS API
14:25:51 <phila> ... and some ways of defining and querying of annotations (URIs where an annotation is attached)
14:26:00 <phila> ... so WG is a mixture of people with differnet backgrouns
14:26:15 <phila> ... some publication people (hence DPub involvement); some Web App devs
14:26:28 <phila> ... adding annos to data and some SemWeb people
14:26:39 <phila> ... getting these people to work together isn't easy
14:26:55 <phila> ... lots of antibodies to RDF in general. JSON-LD is v helpful
14:27:33 <phila> ... FPWD of the annotation model should be out in the nexct few weeks. Diff between that and CG is that everything is written as JSON-LD wth a context file at the end of the doc
14:27:48 <Arnaud> +q
14:27:52 <phila> ack Arnaud
14:28:04 <phila> Arnaud: I;m also co-chair of the Social Web WG
14:28:14 <phila> ... at TPAC we had the meeting between the two WGs
14:28:16 <davidwood> JSON-LD is great, but please ensure that RDF is still the data model. You might consider using similar language to the way we dealt with that in the JSON-LD spec.
14:28:34 <phila> ... I was surprised by how much similarity there is between the 2 WGs (or wants to do)
14:29:05 <phila> Arnaud: It became clear that the tech is not that different. Posting an annotation is not so differnet to posting a comment on a blog post
14:29:23 <phila> ... the fact that liaison between the two hasn't been more striongly identified is unfortunate
14:29:33 <phila> ... could have been brought up earlier
14:29:45 <phila> ... joint meeiting achieved the goal
14:29:59 <phila> ivan: True. Both groups are new, both same age
14:30:37 <phila> ivan: I don't know how closely the social WG talks to the LDP WG except via the common co-chair
14:30:56 <phila> Arnaud: In the social WG there is an overlap in membership: me, Sandro, Erik W etc.
14:30:59 <bhyland> bhyland has joined #dacg
14:31:05 <phila> ... makae it easy to see possible alignment
14:31:25 <phila> ... but it was more surprising that there was zero overlap with annotation WG so we have to identify a liaison person
14:31:39 <phila> ivan: Different backgrounds..
14:34:24 <phila> Sebastian: On his overview
14:34:48 <phila> Sebastian: We received a lot of new Horizon 2020 projects and I;m driving the DBPedia Association
14:34:59 <phila> ... right now W3C is doing standards but we also need infratructure
14:35:13 <phila> ... so for the Web of data, it's unreliable. They don't know how to find the data that they need
14:35:29 <phila> ... the task, with W3C Help and conferences etc. is to have a reliable Web of data
14:35:40 <phila> ... standards is one thing. but you need an organisation support
14:35:52 <phila> ... to make sure standards are applied and relaible
14:36:06 <phila> ... more things that can't be achieved by standards, like policies
14:36:15 <phila> ... we need differnet domains, eg law
14:36:25 <phila> ... you can have public data for law text
14:36:34 <phila> ... thes emight be annotated by legal experts
14:36:40 <phila> .. but quality depends on reputation of the lawyer
14:36:48 <phila> ... quality standards can onkly be defined by domain experts
14:37:05 <phila> ... so there's some non-tech standardisation necessary. Not sure this is W3C's role
14:37:46 <phila> phila: If not W3C, who? DBPedia Association?
14:38:12 <phila> Sebastian: DBPA is in a good position to do this. We have the research institute, industry... we might drive this, not sure
14:39:10 <phila> Kerstin: I think this is a key topic
14:39:19 <phila> ... IMI projects in Europe etc. looking at this
14:39:33 <phila> ... this is eactly the discussion we're having
14:39:47 <Sebastian> +Sebastian
14:39:53 <phila> ... it's a huge topic - commerical money, EU funding, other?
14:39:57 <Sebastian> +q
14:40:06 <Kerstin> This is a key topic also in the pharma industry e.g. for things such as IMI Open PHACTS
14:40:13 <phila> eINFRA
14:40:15 <phila> ack Sebastian
14:40:45 <phila> Sebastian: SEMANTiCS will be in Vienna in Sept 2015 - maybe have a track on this topic
14:41:19 <Kerstin> Exeample on an joint work between IMI Open PHACTS and W3C HLCS for Datasets and Linksets descriptions http://www.slideshare.net/alasdair_gray/dataset-descriptions-in-open-phacts-and-hcls
14:41:33 <phila> Topic: Spatial
14:41:34 <phila> http://www.w3.org/2014/spatial/charter
14:44:05 <phila> Topic: LDP II
14:44:14 <phila> Arnaud: Not sure that we have a plan quite yet
14:44:48 <phila> ... but as we went through the dev of LDP I there were features people wanted but we dodn't have time for. So we developed a wishlist. My tip for a WG is to develop a wishlist early on
14:44:59 <phila> ... that helps people see that their topic is recorded and we might get to it
14:45:27 <phila> ... If you get to the point we're at now we can go back to the wishlist and work through it, sorting the prioroties
14:45:42 <phila> ... talking about drafting the charter based on that
14:46:03 <phila> ... One thing still being discussed - should we charter the WG right away or after 6 month pause
14:46:14 <phila> ... to allow experiementation
14:46:34 <phila> ... but the charter schedule should allow WG to work on UCR for first 6 months
14:46:43 <phila> ... talking about optimisation
14:46:50 <phila> ... we have the concept of a container
14:47:05 <phila> ... to explore the info we have to get the container and then GET each element
14:47:16 <phila> ... want a way to optimise this to get the container and all its resources
14:47:27 <phila> ... we call this 'Inlining'
14:47:46 <phila> ... also interest in developing some kind of filtering/querying - but not reinventing SPARQL
14:48:12 <phila> ... want to be able to select the kind of info that you want. If a container has thousands of resources, how do you select some
14:48:38 <phila> ... also thinking about communicating changes to the resources
14:48:54 <phila> ... some way to communicate to the client that something has changed - what? Without getting everything.
14:49:02 <phila> ... Can we come up woith a way to do this
14:49:38 <phila> ... We also have Access Control. We put it aside in the first charter. We developed a UCR for that already. That helped a lot
14:49:52 <phila> ... we could define sometehing that's useful without solving the bigger Access Control problem
14:50:25 <phila> ... Regarding optimisation - people want to be able to create multiple resources at once
14:51:33 <phila> Arnaud: One thing we talked about - rather than having another big spec is to have smaller specs defining diff mechanisms => LDP becomes a framework of diff technologies
14:51:45 <phila> ... downside is that end up with less then ideal interop
14:51:55 <phila> ... but def an interest in this
14:52:34 <phila> ... If you look at LPD 1 we have conatiners and resources - you can imagine it could have been containers were defined independently. We may want new kinds of containers
14:54:01 <phila> Topic: Future Future
14:54:03 <phila> http://www.w3.org/2014/Talks/1105_phila_semwebpro/#(11)
14:54:41 <Sebastian> SEMANTiCS is international, just happens to be in German speaking countries
15:00:16 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:00:17 <Zakim> -Kerstin_Forsberg
15:00:19 <Zakim> -David_Wood
15:00:20 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:00:21 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker
15:00:22 <Zakim> -phila
15:00:32 <Zakim> -yaso
15:00:33 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:00:35 <Zakim> DATA_DACG()9:00AM has ended
15:00:35 <Zakim> Attendees were Tom_Baker, phila, yaso, Ivan, Kerstin_Forsberg, David_Wood, Arnaud, [IPcaller]
15:00:49 <phila> phila: Gives quick overview of stategic plans for 2015 re supply chain data and research data
15:01:06 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:01:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/19-dacg-minutes.html phila
15:02:30 <yaso> No problem, Phil!
15:02:43 <yaso> :-)
15:02:45 <yaso> Bye!
15:02:48 <yaso> yaso has left #dacg
15:03:16 <bhyland> @phila - please see my email to you … tia.
15:21:35 <Arnaud1> Arnaud1 has joined #dacg
15:22:19 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #dacg
15:32:20 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #dacg
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15:57:56 <phila> zakim, excuse us
15:57:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dacg
15:58:04 <phila> RRSAgent, excuse us
15:58:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items