15:00:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y-media
15:00:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/17-html-a11y-media-irc
15:00:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:00:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y-media
15:00:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:00:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM scheduled to start now
15:00:23 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:00:23 <trackbot> Date: 17 November 2014
15:00:28 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:29 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:00:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, nigel, janina, ShaneM, MarkS, trackbot
15:01:12 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_HTML
15:01:12 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM already started
15:01:22 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P18, nigel, JF
15:01:58 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y-media
15:02:11 <Zakim> +ShaneM
15:02:45 <janina> zakim, ??P18 is me
15:02:45 <Zakim> +janina; got it
15:04:00 <ShaneM> ScribeNick: ShaneM
15:04:14 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Future call times
15:04:30 <ShaneM> JS: Is this the best hour?  or can we do something later in the day?
15:04:35 <ShaneM> JF: It is a little early for me.
15:05:05 <JF> zakim, who's here
15:05:05 <Zakim> JF, you need to end that query with '?'
15:05:16 <JF> zakim, who's here?
15:05:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, janina, nigel, JF
15:05:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see JF, Zakim, RRSAgent, nigel, janina, ShaneM, MarkS, trackbot
15:06:05 <ShaneM> JF: what about 4 pm eastern?
15:06:10 <ShaneM> JS: that would be fine
15:06:14 <ShaneM> SM: fine with me too
15:06:23 <ShaneM> RESOLUTION: Meeting will move to 4 PM Boston time.
15:07:22 <ShaneM> JS: Any objection to meeting Monday, the 24th?
15:07:36 <ShaneM> .... feels like most groups will be meeting on Monday of that week.
15:08:26 <ShaneM> JS: We might get the MAUR updated before the end of the year.
15:08:47 <ShaneM> ... future work could be on guidelines / techniques.
15:08:50 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Comments
15:09:16 <ShaneM> JS: Let's look at the new comments and see what we think
15:09:31 <ShaneM> ... my actions are not yet done about the comments we got right after publication.
15:09:40 <MarkS> 4PM works for me
15:09:42 <ShaneM> ... start with EOs comments and try to get them processed.
15:10:21 <janina> http://www.w3.org/2014/09/29-html-a11y-media-minutes.html
15:10:38 <ShaneM> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Media_Accessibility_User_Requirements#EOWG_Suggestions
15:11:11 <ShaneM> EO comment 1: "clarify not comprehensive"
15:12:09 <ShaneM> should make it clear that this section is just examples and is not comprehensive.
15:12:23 <ShaneM> JS: we made an effort to be as comprehensive as we could be.
15:12:31 <ShaneM> JF: yes but we have not managed to covered every use case.
15:13:02 <ShaneM> JS: I don't want to stress it too much.  We don't know of use cases we are missing.  Do they?
15:13:12 <ShaneM> JF: What about the title? I don't mind changing it.
15:13:28 <ShaneM> ... Summary implies we have done the work and captured as much as we could.
15:13:34 <ShaneM> JS: I like Summary or Overview.
15:14:02 <ShaneM> RESOLVED: Change title to begin with "Summary of"
15:14:21 <ShaneM> JF: what about adding a sentence at the beginning saying that stuff might be missing?
15:14:31 <ShaneM> JS: I am not happy to put too much emphasis on things are missing here.
15:14:42 <ShaneM> ... if something is missing I would rather we were told about it and fix it.
15:14:50 <ShaneM> ... we have been out for public comment several times.
15:15:59 <ShaneM> JF: do we have a disclaimer anywhere that says this section is draft?
15:16:13 <ShaneM> JS: yes but we are removing that once we get the EO comments integrated.
15:16:36 <ShaneM> ... i object to saying examples.  It implies we are not comprehensive.  We are.
15:16:42 <ShaneM> JF: I agree.  We have covered this.
15:17:03 <ShaneM> JS: I would rather say "tell us if there is something missing and we will put it in."
15:17:13 <ShaneM> EO Comment 2: Deaf First
15:18:02 <ShaneM> JF: This is rearranging deck chairs
15:18:33 <ShaneM> JS: And it is not correct.  In the broader community it is exactly the other way around.  people are aware of captions.  they are not familiar with described video.
15:18:37 <ShaneM> JF: I agree
15:18:50 <ShaneM> RESOLVED: We will not make this change
15:19:03 <ShaneM> EO Comment 3: Atypical color perception
15:19:58 <ShaneM> JF: we could beef it up a little.  we don't include any examples right now.
15:20:15 <ShaneM> ... I don't object to saying "(often called color blindness)"
15:20:49 <ShaneM> ... this is more a UAAG thing or a WCAG thing.
15:20:55 <ShaneM> JS: couldn't we just point at those?
15:21:09 <ShaneM> JF: I am not sure whether UAAG has actually considered scripted controls in media pages.
15:22:00 <ShaneM> Nigel: if only because this section looks different than the others.  We don't say how many in other sections.
15:22:04 <ShaneM> JF: I agree
15:22:28 <ShaneM> JS: A good point.  We were trying to emphasize that it is a large group but we want all the things done.
15:23:06 <ShaneM> PROPOSAL: Take out the percentage, the number, add the parenthetic clause
15:23:33 <ShaneM> JF: In all the definitions there is no hyperlinking.  But in this one there is.  Why?
15:23:42 <ShaneM> JS: I think we should do it when it is useful.
15:24:07 <ShaneM> JF: in the section under low vision we point out problems via examples.
15:24:30 <ShaneM> JS: That should have a WCAG reference.  Maybe we should add cross references when there are WCAG techniques that would help.
15:24:57 <ShaneM> JF: there are sections in WCAG that talk about color contrast / high contrast issues.
15:25:08 <ShaneM> ... nothing specific to color blindness.  that condition is so variable
15:25:27 <ShaneM> ... there are 5 different kinds of color blindness.
15:27:15 <ShaneM> PROPOSAL: get someone really familiar with WCAG to look through section 1 and find the places where we should link into WCAG or other w3c resources.
15:29:10 <JF> DRAFT: People with atypical color perception (often called "color blindness") may not be able to discriminate between different colors, or may miss key information when coded with color only, such as colors in media controls or text overlays.
15:29:46 <ShaneM> SM: that looks good
15:30:01 <janina> Enter bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=PFWG&component=Media%20Accessibility%20User%20Requirements
15:30:04 <janina> Search bugs: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=PFWG&component=Media%20Accessibility%20User%20Requirements
15:31:25 <ShaneM> JF: I think that the linkage to other documents is already there.  'cause they are in the checklist.
15:31:42 <ShaneM> JS: Is that a little to general.  Could we add a link from each section into the correct portion of the checklist?
15:31:53 <ShaneM> JF: I guess we could.  Feels like we are trying to boil the ocean here.
15:32:15 <ShaneM> JS: We only have a dozen sections we need to cross-reference.
15:32:34 <ShaneM> JF: There are actually closer to 30
15:33:22 <ShaneM> JS: Let's think about it and look at it next Monday
15:34:43 <ShaneM> JF: In section 1, for example, on blindness, there is not a pointer into UAAG or WCAG.
15:34:54 <ShaneM> JS: Maybe in that section it is not necessary.
15:38:21 <ShaneM> JF: There is a ton of relevant stuff.
15:41:16 <ShaneM> JS: if there are not links from the checklist into WGAC/UAAG or they are too hard to find, then maybe we should put them into section 2 as a way to guide readers to the potential solutions more easily.
15:41:33 <ShaneM> JS: Let's not try to resolve this today.  Let's think about it for a week.
15:42:08 <ShaneM> ACTION: Janina to look into whether there is a good way to address the concern about linking the items in section 2 into other W3C Resources
15:42:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-288 - Look into whether there is a good way to address the concern about linking the items in section 2 into other w3c resources [on Janina Sajka - due 2014-11-24].
15:42:44 <ShaneM> EO Comment 4: Cognitive and neurological disabilities
15:43:35 <ShaneM> JS: We have a cognitivate task force now.  We should get comments from them on section 2.8.  Encourage them to keep it succinct
15:44:05 <ShaneM> JS: I will bring it up with Lisa.
15:44:17 <ShaneM> JF: I don't want this to extend beyond two weeks.  I want this published.
15:44:27 <ShaneM> JS: I will make sure this is understood.
15:44:40 <ShaneM> RESOLVED: We will ask the cognitive task force to clean up the language.
15:45:13 <ShaneM> EO Item 5: Link to How People with Disabilities Use the Web
15:45:18 <ShaneM> JS: We agree and have already done it.
15:45:44 <ShaneM> EO Item 7: Categories
15:46:39 <ShaneM> SM: put a prefix on the existing headings is fine
15:46:42 <ShaneM> JF: ok
15:46:45 <ShaneM> JS: works for me too
15:46:55 <ShaneM> EO item number 6: Largely editorial
15:47:43 <ShaneM> first paragraph: They have proposed new language.
15:47:48 <ShaneM> JS: I agree - that's an improvement
15:48:16 <ShaneM> JF: It's okay with me
15:51:46 <ShaneM> SM: will the checklist continue to be separate?
15:51:53 <ShaneM> JS: Not sure we have made that decision.
15:52:19 <ShaneM> JF: My only concern is that the checklist, such that it is, is a wiki page.  that means anyone can edit it.
15:52:29 <ShaneM> ... it is a good think and a bad thing.
15:52:45 <ShaneM> JS: It can be locked down when we are DONE.  1.0 should remain 1.0.
15:53:04 <ShaneM> JF: then maybe we need to take the wiki contents and publish it as a part of the note.  as an appendix.
15:53:10 <ShaneM> JS: I am fine with that.
15:53:23 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to find a way to get the wiki contents into an Appendix
15:53:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-289 - Find a way to get the wiki contents into an appendix [on Shane McCarron - due 2014-11-24].
15:55:02 <ShaneM> and don't forget to put a note in the wiki pointing to the static version.
15:55:47 <ShaneM> EO Comments: Options EOWG discussed
15:56:08 <ShaneM> Group agrees to point to the diversity document.
15:56:16 <ShaneM> JF: Do we need to respond to EO?
15:56:19 <ShaneM> JS: yes.
15:56:33 <ShaneM> ... not until we are done disposing of their comments.
15:57:15 <JF> https://w3c.github.io/pfwg/media-accessibility-reqs
15:58:38 <ShaneM> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/17-html-a11y-media-minutes.html ShaneM
16:00:19 <JF> https://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:JFoliot/Issue194_Recap#Change_Proposals
16:02:10 <Zakim> -janina
16:02:11 <Zakim> -JF
16:02:11 <Zakim> -nigel
16:02:13 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:02:14 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()10:00AM has ended
16:02:14 <Zakim> Attendees were nigel, JF, ShaneM, janina
16:02:17 <ShaneM> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/17-html-a11y-media-minutes.html ShaneM
16:02:43 <ShaneM> CHAIR: Janina
16:02:45 <ShaneM> rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/17-html-a11y-media-minutes.html ShaneM
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