16:00:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
16:00:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/17-dpub-irc
16:00:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:00:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
16:00:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
16:00:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM already started
16:00:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
16:00:50 <trackbot> Date: 17 November 2014
16:00:52 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
16:00:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, [Safari], +1.212.364.aaaa, +1.512.445.aabb, Tzviya, +1.339.203.aacc, +1.217.300.aadd, pkra, Markus, +1.646.336.aaee, TimCole, Luc
16:00:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, TimCole, Susann_Keohane, Julie, liza, brady_duga, pkra, astein, clapierre, philm, tmichel, tzviya, mgylling, azaroth, fjh, Karen, liam, dauwhe, plinss,
16:00:57 <Zakim> ... astearns, iank_, rego, mihnea_____, dkaplan3, trackbot
16:01:11 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaa has dauwhe
16:01:11 <Zakim> sorry, dauwhe, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
16:01:13 <tzviya> zakim, aaee is Julie
16:01:13 <Zakim> +Julie; got it
16:01:15 <Zakim> +duga
16:01:19 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaaa has dauwhe
16:01:19 <Zakim> +dauwhe; got it
16:01:21 <dkaplan3> zakim, aac is me
16:01:21 <Zakim> sorry, dkaplan3, I do not recognize a party named 'aac'
16:01:23 <Zakim> +azaroth
16:01:25 <liza> zakim, Safari is me
16:01:25 <Zakim> +liza; got it
16:01:26 <Zakim> -azaroth
16:01:30 <dauwhe> Zakim, aaaa has philm
16:01:30 <Zakim> +philm; got it
16:01:36 <tzviya> zakim, is dkaplan3
16:01:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'is dkaplan3', tzviya
16:01:40 <dkaplan3> zakim, aacc is me
16:01:41 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
16:01:41 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
16:01:47 <tzviya> zakim, aacc is dkaplan3
16:01:47 <Zakim> sorry, tzviya, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:01:49 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
16:01:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, liza, +1.212.364.aaaa, +1.512.445.aabb, Tzviya, dkaplan3, +1.217.300.aadd, pkra, Markus, Julie, TimCole, Luc, duga
16:01:51 <Zakim> +1.212.364.aaaa has philm
16:01:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see bjdmeest, Zakim, RRSAgent, TimCole, Susann_Keohane, Julie, liza, brady_duga, pkra, astein, clapierre, philm, tmichel, tzviya, mgylling, azaroth, fjh, Karen, liam,
16:01:51 <Zakim> ... dauwhe, plinss, astearns, iank_, rego, mihnea_____, dkaplan3, trackbot
16:01:51 <Zakim> +azaroth
16:01:52 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
16:01:58 <Susann_Keohane> zakim, aabb is Susann_Keohane
16:01:58 <Zakim> +Susann_Keohane; got it
16:02:01 <Zakim> +Thierry
16:02:01 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #dpub
16:02:05 <tzviya> zakim, aacc is dkaplan3
16:02:05 <Zakim> sorry, tzviya, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
16:02:07 <Zakim> + +1.201.783.aaff
16:02:12 <pat_pagano> pat_pagano has joined #dpub
16:02:17 <pbelfanti> pbelfanti has joined #dpub
16:02:19 <Zakim> +madi
16:02:26 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
16:02:32 <bjdmeest> zakim, Ugent is me
16:02:32 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:02:32 <Zakim> +bjdmeest; got it
16:02:33 <Zakim> +Stearns
16:02:38 <mgylling> zakim, who is here?
16:02:38 <madi> madi has joined #dpub
16:02:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, liza, +1.212.364.aaaa, Susann_Keohane, Tzviya, dkaplan3, +1.217.300.aadd, pkra, Markus, Julie, TimCole, Luc, duga, azaroth, Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry,
16:02:40 <tzviya> zakim, who is here?
16:02:42 <Zakim> ... +1.201.783.aaff, madi, bjdmeest, Stearns
16:02:42 <Zakim> +1.212.364.aaaa has philm
16:02:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see madi, Bill_Kasdorf, pbelfanti, pat_pagano, laudrain, bjdmeest, Zakim, RRSAgent, TimCole, Susann_Keohane, Julie, liza, brady_duga, pkra, astein, clapierre, philm,
16:02:42 <Zakim> ... tmichel, tzviya, mgylling, azaroth, fjh, Karen, liam, dauwhe, plinss, astearns, iank_, rego, mihnea_____, dkaplan3, trackbot
16:02:42 <astein> Zakim, 217 is Ayla Stein
16:02:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, liza, +1.212.364.aaaa, Susann_Keohane, Tzviya, dkaplan3, +1.217.300.aadd, pkra, Markus, Julie, TimCole, Luc, duga, azaroth, Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry,
16:02:44 <Zakim> ... +1.201.783.aaff, madi, bjdmeest, Stearns
16:02:44 <Zakim> +1.212.364.aaaa has philm
16:02:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see madi, Bill_Kasdorf, pbelfanti, pat_pagano, laudrain, bjdmeest, Zakim, RRSAgent, TimCole, Susann_Keohane, Julie, liza, brady_duga, pkra, astein, clapierre, philm,
16:02:44 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
16:02:48 <Zakim> ... tmichel, tzviya, mgylling, azaroth, fjh, Karen, liam, dauwhe, plinss, astearns, iank_, rego, mihnea_____, dkaplan3, trackbot
16:02:48 <Zakim> I don't understand '217 is Ayla Stein', astein
16:02:53 <Zakim> +??P18
16:02:56 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
16:03:22 <tzviya> zakim, aadd is astein
16:03:22 <Zakim> +astein; got it
16:03:28 <Karen> zakim, code?
16:03:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Karen
16:03:36 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is cutting sheet metal?
16:03:36 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dauwhe.
16:03:51 <tzviya> zakim, aaaa is pat_pagano
16:03:51 <Zakim> +pat_pagano; got it
16:03:53 <dauwhe> mgylling: let's get going
16:04:02 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
16:04:03 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
16:04:07 <dauwhe> we will devote this call to metadata
16:04:12 <tzviya> zakim, aadd is astein
16:04:12 <Zakim> sorry, tzviya, I do not recognize a party named 'aadd'
16:04:23 <Zakim> +Bert
16:04:29 <tzviya> zakim who is here?
16:04:38 <dauwhe> mgylling: we'll go through your actions and talk about them
16:04:53 <dauwhe> ... we asked offline about figuring out what BISG is doing in this area
16:04:54 <tzviya> zakim, who is here?
16:04:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, liza, pat_pagano, Susann_Keohane, Tzviya, dkaplan3, astein, pkra, Markus, Julie, TimCole, Luc, duga, azaroth, Bill_Kasdorf, Thierry, +1.201.783.aaff,
16:04:57 <Zakim> ... madi, bjdmeest, Stearns, ??P18, Karen_Myers, Bert
16:04:58 <Zakim> pat_pagano has philm
16:04:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bert, madi, Bill_Kasdorf, pbelfanti, pat_pagano, laudrain, bjdmeest, Zakim, RRSAgent, TimCole, Susann_Keohane, Julie, liza, brady_duga, pkra, astein, clapierre, philm,
16:04:58 <Zakim> ... tmichel, tzviya, mgylling, azaroth, fjh, Karen, liam, dauwhe, plinss, astearns, iank_, rego, mihnea_____, dkaplan3, trackbot
16:05:08 <dauwhe> ... so we asked Julie and Phil to be ready to outline what BISG is doing with metadata
16:05:22 <dauwhe> ... we don't want to duplicate effort or create confusion
16:05:59 <dauwhe> ... we need to approve last week's minutes
16:06:04 <tzviya> zakim, aaff is pbelfanti
16:06:04 <Zakim> +pbelfanti; got it
16:06:10 <dauwhe> Minutes approved.
16:06:51 <dauwhe> mgylling: let's start with metadata rather than administrivia
16:07:01 <dauwhe> ... OK to start with Phil/Julie?
16:07:15 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: let me start with task force
16:07:22 <dauwhe> ... 3 assignments from tpac
16:07:30 <dauwhe> ... First, investigate identifiers as URIs
16:07:40 <dauwhe> ... Second, educate people on RDF
16:07:53 <dauwhe> ... Third, update documentation we've compliled and turn into w3c note
16:08:00 <dauwhe> s/compliled/compiled/
16:08:15 <dauwhe> ... I'm now focused on this
16:08:30 <dauwhe> ... we have highly qualified volunteers
16:08:36 <dauwhe> ... what should we call them?
16:08:44 <dauwhe> mgylling: they are deliverables
16:09:28 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: If anyone else wants to participate, please volunteer
16:09:42 <dauwhe> ... lots of suggestions for RDF educational resources
16:09:59 <dauwhe> ... on IDs in URIs, I think issue is
16:10:00 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #dpub
16:10:14 <dauwhe> ... lots of IDs can and should be expressed as URIs to be actionable
16:10:26 <dauwhe> ... some of the organizations do suggest this (like CrossRef)
16:10:43 <dauwhe> ... assemble a list of IDs
16:10:47 <Zakim> + +1.585.217.aagg
16:10:56 <Zakim> -Stearns
16:11:10 <dauwhe> ... see if governing organazation suggests they be expressed as URI
16:11:18 <dauwhe> s/organazation/organization
16:11:28 <david_stroup> I'm 585.217
16:11:37 <Zakim> +Stearns
16:11:44 <dauwhe> ... for example, ISBN *can* be expressed as URI but is uncommon
16:11:48 <tzviya> zakim, aagg is david_stroup
16:11:48 <Zakim> +david_stroup; got it
16:11:54 <azaroth> q+
16:11:55 <dauwhe> ... what documentation/recommendations there are
16:12:00 <dauwhe> ... then compile report
16:12:19 <dauwhe> ... so we can see where to go from here
16:12:22 <dauwhe> ... RDF is similar
16:12:26 <dauwhe> ... we have volunteers
16:12:34 <azaroth> q+ to ask about "actionable"
16:12:38 <dauwhe> ... we just have to compile list of links to references
16:12:48 <dauwhe> ... some targets libraries, some publishers, etc
16:13:04 <dauwhe> ... some are geeky and some are clear, plain language
16:13:10 <dauwhe> ... we need a gap analysis
16:13:14 <dauwhe> ... there's lots out there
16:13:26 <dauwhe> ... but publishers don't understand
16:13:33 <dauwhe> ... and lots of systems don't use RDF
16:14:00 <dauwhe> ... report by mid-December
16:14:07 <dauwhe> ... Madi, do you have anything to add?
16:14:13 <dauwhe> madi: we can run with this
16:14:24 <dauwhe> ... we also need explanation of why we need these reports
16:14:30 <dauwhe> ... why URI? Why RDF?
16:14:54 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: [listing volunteers]
16:15:15 <mgylling> ack azaroth
16:15:15 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask about "actionable"
16:15:22 <dauwhe> mgylling: we have a queue
16:15:39 <dauwhe> azaroth: the use of actionable uri and is that a requirement?
16:15:49 <dauwhe> ... there are URI identifiers that are *not* actionable
16:15:53 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: thanks
16:16:11 <dauwhe> ... one reason to express as URI is to make it actionable
16:16:20 <dauwhe> ... but they are not necessarily actionable
16:16:33 <dauwhe> mgylling: OK
16:16:46 <dauwhe> ... open up for QA later, but let's ask about BISG
16:16:52 <dauwhe> Julie: I'll start
16:17:26 <dauwhe> ... the metadata committee focuses mostly on product metadata and ONIX
16:17:40 <dauwhe> ... one WG focuses on transition to ONIX3 in the U.S.
16:17:49 <dauwhe> ... one will map part of ONIX to schema.org
16:18:09 <dauwhe> ... a third will look at educational standards to build a keyword taxonomy
16:18:19 <dauwhe> ... this is not content level but product level, all tied to onix
16:18:36 <dauwhe> ... the Identification Committee will be more relevant here, Phil is the chair
16:19:06 <dauwhe> ... there's interest in a work identifier
16:19:16 <dauwhe> philm: Re: metadata committee
16:19:30 <dauwhe> ... this committee will have something to do with RDF
16:19:40 <dauwhe> ... esp. if Graham is interested in an RDF version of ONIX
16:19:51 <dauwhe> ... the committee has been only concerned with ONIX for years now
16:20:12 <dauwhe> ... these groups have been involved within the book supply change
16:20:19 <dauwhe> ... it was an isolated supply chain
16:20:21 <dauwhe> ... that's changing
16:20:29 <dauwhe> ... we need to look outside that supply chain
16:20:40 <dauwhe> ... even books are sold at Target and Wall-mart now
16:20:52 <dauwhe> ... these are handled by independent distributors
16:21:06 <dauwhe> ... they handle the stocking and resupply, so we don't get involved
16:21:16 <dauwhe> ... GS1 standard, for example...
16:21:22 <dauwhe> ... we have lots of conflicts with  larger world
16:21:29 <dauwhe> ... we use things in non-standard ways
16:21:40 <dauwhe> ... in ID committee, when we talk about work identifier
16:21:46 <dauwhe> ... we want to get use cases
16:21:54 <dauwhe> ... and to think outside the industry
16:22:19 <dauwhe> ... we've been talking about work identifier for a decade
16:22:25 <dauwhe> ... ISTC has not gained traction
16:22:42 <dauwhe> ... we've failed to define what a work identifier should be
16:22:49 <dauwhe> ... as different sectors have different ideas
16:23:01 <dauwhe> ... every possible manifiestation regardless of format?
16:23:11 <dauwhe> ... even across publishers or nations?
16:23:16 <dauwhe> ... authors and agents like that.
16:23:22 <dauwhe> ... publishers and retailers don't like it
16:23:36 <dauwhe> ... they want a collection identifier, to group together manifestations
16:23:45 <dauwhe> ... Moby-Dick. There are thousands of editions
16:23:55 <dauwhe> ... there's text, popub books, coloring books
16:24:05 <dauwhe> ... should all the manifestations show up in search?
16:24:10 <dauwhe> ... retailers want to control that
16:24:11 <tzviya> s/popub/popup
16:24:20 <dauwhe> ... to get relevant results
16:24:34 <dauwhe> ... publishers want to collect all their manifestations, but not others
16:24:45 <dauwhe> ... for Twilight, we had print rights but Random House had audio rights
16:25:01 <dauwhe> ... so that's how these discussions go
16:25:01 <tzviya> q?
16:25:07 <tzviya> q+
16:25:09 <dauwhe> ... we fail to come to consensus
16:25:24 <dauwhe> ... no one has come up with a problem so urgent that the work identifier is the solution
16:25:39 <dauwhe> ... we've sorted this out, organization by organization
16:25:48 <dauwhe> ... can link ISBNs together with related field
16:26:00 <dauwhe> ... but haven't looked from a perspective beyond ONIX
16:26:11 <dauwhe> ... ISBN is being revised now
16:26:23 <dauwhe> ... there is now a section on ISBN-A, which is an actionable ISBN
16:26:29 <dauwhe> ... it will be in the user manual
16:26:41 <dauwhe> ... not sure when that will be published
16:26:58 <dauwhe> ... within the publishing industry, there are various sectors
16:27:07 <dauwhe> ... who have different ideas of what a work identifier should do
16:27:19 <dauwhe> ... pick one sector that has a really good use case
16:27:26 <dauwhe> ... that shows the value, then other sectors will follow
16:27:31 <dauwhe> ... that hasn't happened yet
16:27:35 <dauwhe> ... same thing with RDF
16:27:50 <dauwhe> ... it's been hard even to upgrade from ONIX 2 to ONIX 3
16:28:01 <dauwhe> ... four or five years after ONIX 3 was published
16:28:11 <dauwhe> ... publishers are not technology companies
16:28:23 <dauwhe> ... takes a really good use case to get us to do these things
16:28:43 <dauwhe> ... if the system works, like ONIX, the bar is very high
16:29:02 <dauwhe> ... "how will this get more books out there, connect with the reader"
16:29:25 <dauwhe> ... perhaps Social media or author pages will provide a use case
16:29:34 <dauwhe> ... even to get other publishers to join W3C
16:29:45 <dauwhe> ... have to connect with business case
16:29:50 <mgylling> ack tzviya
16:30:03 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:30:06 <dauwhe> tzviya: sounds like there are a few things that BISG does
16:30:14 <dauwhe> ... educating publishers about what exists
16:30:18 <Karen> q+
16:30:33 <dauwhe> ... and an effort to create a uniformity in the way of things are being done, like a work ID
16:30:36 <dauwhe> Julie: yes.
16:30:40 <Zakim> -pbelfanti
16:30:49 <dauwhe> ... most of our work is a cycle of identifying pain points
16:30:58 <dauwhe> ... doing research and creating standards
16:31:05 <Zakim> +pbelfanti
16:31:09 <dauwhe> ... also with documents and events
16:31:11 <mgylling> ack Bill_K
16:31:22 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: Could you mention the subject codes committee
16:31:37 <dauwhe> ... people might not understand difference between BISAC and ONIX
16:31:45 <dauwhe> ... BISAC is subject classifications
16:31:50 <dauwhe> ... and we work on Thema
16:32:06 <dauwhe> ... both of those are data points within ONIX
16:32:33 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: those are two examples of not just educating but being responsible for the standards
16:32:46 <mgylling> ack Karen
16:33:05 <dauwhe> Karen: Phil, you mentioned adoption of ONIX 3 is slow. Is that just US?
16:33:16 <dauwhe> philm: ONIX 3 is strong in new markets
16:33:20 <laudrain> +q
16:33:31 <dauwhe> ... slower in UK, France is quicker than US
16:33:41 <dauwhe> ... globally, we haven't been asked for ONIX3 internationally
16:34:06 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: I always thought it was publishers dragging their feet due to their existing systems
16:34:24 <dauwhe> ... but Phil pointed out that the problem is the retailers and recipients requiring ONIX 2
16:34:35 <dauwhe> ... [insert chicken/egg metaphor]
16:35:00 <dauwhe> philm: Yes. Publishers are very reactive.
16:35:14 <dauwhe> ... we react to what our customers want from us, as any supplier does
16:35:18 <dauwhe> ... we have limited resources
16:35:35 <dauwhe> ... if the recipients say we will require this in six months, we'd do it
16:35:43 <dauwhe> ... but without knowing that it's hard to schedule
16:35:53 <dauwhe> ... if no one's gonna take it, why send it?
16:36:05 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: it's better
16:36:22 <dauwhe> Julie: we want to create a grid of up and downstream support
16:36:27 <mgylling> ack laudrain
16:36:35 <Karen> +1 grid of ONIX 3
16:36:43 <dauwhe> philm: we've been able to create oNIX 3 for a year
16:36:49 <dauwhe> ... just started sending it out last week
16:36:54 <tzviya> q+
16:37:05 <dauwhe> ... transparency will help
16:37:18 <dauwhe> laudrain: in France ONIX 3 position is much better
16:37:31 <dauwhe> ... been pushing for several months, several retailers accepting it
16:37:46 <dauwhe> ... 50% in France using ONIX 3
16:37:54 <mgylling> ack tzviya
16:37:59 <dauwhe> mgylling: let's focus on what IG can do
16:38:04 <dauwhe> tzviya: that's what I was going to say
16:38:27 <dauwhe> mgylling: what are your views in terms of W3C and this IG's involvement moving forward
16:38:46 <dauwhe> ... is there any low-hanging topics that would be ideal for W3C to focus on?
16:39:13 <dauwhe> philm: I think what the publishing industry needs clarity on what these things are and how to incorporate into web page
16:39:32 <dauwhe> ... if that's the recommendation on how to embed metadata into a web page, that's what they're looking for
16:39:45 <dauwhe> ... so if W3C is saying this, it helps for publishers to say we have a working framework
16:39:53 <TimCole> q+
16:39:54 <dauwhe> Julie: I agree
16:40:12 <dauwhe> ... what would help is greater education about web technologies
16:40:24 <dauwhe> ... the work that Bill is talking about, gathering RDF resources
16:40:34 <dauwhe> ... we can raise that as topic in BISG metadata committee
16:40:41 <dauwhe> ... an easy way to start a conversation
16:40:45 <dauwhe> ... and see if there are next steps
16:40:59 <dauwhe> philm: If we can get use cases from outside the publishing industry where this works
16:41:01 <dauwhe> ... it will help
16:41:14 <dauwhe> ... if we see something working somewhere else, that will really help
16:41:22 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: I was going to say the same thing
16:41:23 <tzviya> q+
16:41:33 <dauwhe> ... RDF is widely understood and used in libraries
16:41:48 <dauwhe> ... IPTC is major proponent of RDF
16:42:01 <dauwhe> ... [insert chicken-and-egg metaphor]
16:42:03 <mgylling> ack TimCole
16:42:31 <dauwhe> TimCole: I'd say library communitiy is just starting with RDF
16:42:49 <dauwhe> ... W3C can't tell publishing community that this is the right standard for this identifier
16:43:02 <dauwhe> ... there won't be a single canonical ID
16:43:12 <dauwhe> ... there will be lots of smaller IDs taht need to be connected
16:43:19 <dauwhe> s/taht/that/
16:43:28 <dauwhe> ... RDF can do this connection
16:43:32 <Karen> +1 Tim's clarification on RDF value
16:43:41 <dauwhe> ... shared identifiers
16:43:59 <dauwhe> ... in a few weeks we'll talk about reconciliation services between identifiers
16:44:29 <dauwhe> ... someone has to connect publisher ID and retailer ID
16:44:30 <mgylling> ack tzviya
16:44:58 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: identifiers embedded in identifiers
16:45:17 <dauwhe> ... an ISBN-A is an ISBN with a DOI in it expressed as a URI, so in fact it's all three
16:45:25 <dauwhe> tzviya: We're going in circles
16:45:29 <dauwhe> ... let's take a step back
16:45:51 <dauwhe> ... it would be beneficial for the publishing community to learn about how linked data can be helpful (like BBC)
16:46:09 <dauwhe> ... or tell people to read books about linked data
16:46:35 <dauwhe> ... how can BISG and DPUB work together without stepping on feet
16:46:44 <Zakim> -duga
16:46:47 <dauwhe> ... BISG is US-centric, W3C is international
16:47:02 <dauwhe> Julie: We are U.S. focused and U.S. based
16:47:30 <dauwhe> ... but not exclusive
16:47:58 <dauwhe> ... we're focused on global standards but serving the US market
16:48:18 <dauwhe> ... can we take another look at action items and make sure they're on track
16:48:31 <dauwhe> ... and aligned with what the larger publishing world is trying to accomplist
16:48:48 <dauwhe> ... based on what phil says, releasing a guide on RDF won't have much traction
16:49:12 <dauwhe> ... but maybe we want to talk about examples in the wider world where this is used
16:49:30 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: our action items were intended to be preparatory for that
16:49:52 <dauwhe> ... the whole point of that work item was to see what's out there and point people to it
16:50:07 <dauwhe> tzviya: there was another action to develope list of IDs to express as URIs
16:50:26 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: the point of that work item was to find the gaps
16:50:47 <dauwhe> ... at TPAC someone pointed out an org that had misleading guidance about using an identifier as URI
16:50:54 <dauwhe> ... the point was to give a sense of the issue
16:51:07 <dauwhe> ... the gap between recommendation and practice
16:51:19 <dauwhe> ... it wasn't a master resource
16:51:22 <dauwhe> ... BISG has that
16:51:46 <dauwhe> ... I see them as assessing the landscape, not publishing a product
16:52:03 <dauwhe> ... to what extent is there understanding or use of (RDF | ID as URI)
16:52:17 <dauwhe> ... but we do need concrete examples and use cases
16:52:39 <dauwhe> mgylling: there are publishers that are using RDF, like inkling and benetech
16:52:50 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: pointing to a realistic thing like that is good
16:53:18 <dauwhe> mgylling: you're agreeing with Julie and Phil's suggestions on end product
16:53:27 <dauwhe> ... and your current actions are steps on the way there
16:53:30 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: yes
16:53:35 <dauwhe> mgylling: OK
16:53:41 <mgylling> q?
16:53:57 <dauwhe> tzviya: it does make sense to survey the landscape
16:54:15 <dauwhe> ... I'm concerned we're asking a lot of a small group of people to survey the landscape
16:54:32 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: how much does this have to be comprehensive vs illustrative
16:55:09 <dauwhe> ... neither of this things would result in a publishable product
16:55:38 <dauwhe> mgylling: which digital publishers are already doing this? what are their problems/benefits?
16:55:44 <dauwhe> ... primarily RDF
16:56:08 <dauwhe> ... the basic charter imperatives is that we're supposed to identify areas where OWP needs to change
16:56:12 <dauwhe> ... I'm not seeing that here
16:56:34 <dauwhe> ... this is about information and about changing how business is done
16:56:42 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: true
16:56:48 <mgylling> q?
16:56:50 <dauwhe> mgylling: any other questions
16:56:55 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: Karen?
16:57:03 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has left #dpub
16:57:09 <dauwhe> Karen: yes, we covered my Q about international focus and deliverables
16:57:10 <Zakim> -Susann_Keohane
16:57:42 <dauwhe> mgylling: I agree with Tzviya's points, we should incorporate a certain amount of worry about time
16:58:03 <dauwhe> ... we don't want to become yet another organization caught in the maelstrom
16:58:17 <dauwhe> Bill_Kasdorf: we have only weeks before our first action items are due
16:58:43 <dauwhe> mgylling: two minutes left, so we have to cut this off
16:58:57 <dauwhe> ... the only agenda item we didn't get to was next week's call
16:59:17 <dauwhe> ... may not be a good idea due to the U.S. Thanksgiving Holiday
16:59:28 <Zakim> -Stearns
16:59:38 <Karen> I'll be working
17:00:00 <azaroth> Regrets for the next three weeks running (thx giving, reconciliation meeting, CNI conference)
17:00:08 <dauwhe> dauwhe: can talk about CSS stuff next week
17:00:13 <Zakim> -pkra
17:00:16 <pkra> sorry, gotta run.
17:00:25 <dauwhe> mgylling: can look at Page DOM too, if Brady is around
17:00:32 <dauwhe> mgylling: thanks everyone
17:00:38 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
17:00:40 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
17:00:41 <Zakim> -??P18
17:00:41 <Zakim> -Markus
17:00:42 <Zakim> -Julie
17:00:42 <Zakim> -madi
17:00:43 <Zakim> -pbelfanti
17:00:43 <Zakim> -TimCole
17:00:43 <Zakim> -pat_pagano
17:00:44 <Zakim> -azaroth
17:00:44 <Zakim> -Luc
17:00:45 <Zakim> -clapierre
17:00:45 <Zakim> -Tzviya
17:00:47 <Zakim> -bjdmeest
17:00:47 <Zakim> -david_stroup
17:00:48 <Zakim> -astein
17:00:51 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
17:00:57 <Zakim> -Bert
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17:36:42 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:36:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/17-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
18:01:33 <Zakim> -Thierry
18:06:33 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, liza, in DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM
18:06:34 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
18:06:34 <Zakim> Attendees were clapierre, +1.512.445.aabb, Tzviya, +1.339.203.aacc, +1.217.300.aadd, pkra, Markus, +1.646.336.aaee, TimCole, Luc, Julie, duga, dauwhe, azaroth, liza, philm,
18:06:35 <Zakim> ... dkaplan3, Bill_Kasdorf, Susann_Keohane, Thierry, +1.201.783.aaff, madi, bjdmeest, Stearns, astein, pat_pagano, Karen_Myers, Bert, pbelfanti, +1.585.217.aagg, david_stroup
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