13:57:33 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 13:57:33 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/14-dwbp-irc 13:57:35 RRSAgent, make logs 351 13:57:37 Zakim, this will be DWBP 13:57:38 Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 13:57:38 Date: 14 November 2014 13:57:43 Hello! 13:57:57 Caroline_ has joined #dwbp 13:58:09 Hi hadleybeeman 13:58:24 Hello, deirdrelee! 13:58:29 zakim, who is here? 13:58:45 Eric_Kauz has joined #dwbp 13:59:07 i'm trying to invite him 13:59:45 "/invite zakim #dwbp" 13:59:50 that's what i'm using 13:59:55 yaso_ has joined #dwbp 14:00:08 nathalia has joined #dwbp 14:00:10 nope, not working for me 14:00:16 Zakim, Caroline has yaso_ 14:00:33 Zakim, Caroline has nathalia 14:00:53 haha 14:01:33 OK, who's able to use Skype? 14:01:45 i'm on skype 14:02:21 we can use skype from here also 14:02:27 I'm on Skype. 14:02:31 Me, Nathalia, Caroline and Newton 14:02:31 It seems to be a recent security update on the Windows box that Zakim runs on 14:02:42 laufer has joined #dwbp 14:02:51 me too, I can use Skype! 14:02:55 RiccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP 14:03:36 phila, were you suggesting a group Skype chat? 14:03:41 OK, let's get everyone's Skype handle 14:03:44 yes, sorry hadleybeeman 14:03:48 deception 14:03:48 Zakim is down 14:03:49 ah 14:04:06 Ralph is looking at it but it looks like a security patch has killed zakim 14:04:10 but i could hear eric kauz and yaso no the call 14:04:10 “the day zakim went down” seems like a good name for a movie 14:04:17 +1 yaso 14:04:31 hi everyone! 14:04:35 OK, I;m going to start calling people on Skype in 1 minute 14:04:41 k 14:04:52 If we're not already linked on Skype, please enter your Skype handle here 14:05:00 prefix with /me if you don't want it in the minutes 14:05:13 ouquei. Call Caroline Burle, plz @phila 14:05:22 hello all 14:05:40 I would if she were online yaso 14:06:01 Ops. Call Newtoncallegari then, please 14:06:23 My skype id is adriano.machado 14:07:10 \me is carlos.laufer 14:07:22 BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp 14:07:32 annette_g has joined #dwbp 14:08:01 Caroline_ has joined #dwbp 14:08:08 Zakim has joined #dwbp 14:08:13 Is the meeting on Skype? 14:08:14 Wa hay! 14:08:17 Zakim, is back 14:08:17 I don't understand 'is back', phila 14:08:31 Zakim, who is here? 14:08:31 sorry, deirdrelee, I don't know what conference this is 14:08:33 On IRC I see Caroline_, annette_g, BernadetteLoscio, RiccardoAlbertoni, laufer, nathalia, yaso, Eric_Kauz, RRSAgent, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, deirdrelee, antoine, phila, rhiaro, 14:08:33 ... hadleybeeman, sandro, trackbot 14:08:40 zakim, this is dwbp 14:08:40 ok, phila; that matches DATA_DWBP()9:00AM 14:08:41 Hi Caroline_ — we're on zakim now. You can dial in as normal. 14:08:47 Zakim, who is here? 14:08:47 On the phone I see +1.609.557.aaaa, +1.510.384.aabb, +39.349.096.aacc, [IPcaller], HadleyBeeman 14:08:49 On IRC I see Caroline_, annette_g, BernadetteLoscio, RiccardoAlbertoni, laufer, nathalia, yaso, Eric_Kauz, RRSAgent, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, deirdrelee, antoine, phila, rhiaro, 14:08:49 ... hadleybeeman, sandro, trackbot 14:08:56 +[IPcaller.a] 14:08:59 zakim, [ipcaller] is me 14:08:59 +deirdrelee; got it 14:09:05 zakim, IPcaller.a is me 14:09:05 +antoine; got it 14:09:14 +[IPcaller] 14:09:18 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:09:18 +phila; got it 14:09:24 zakim, +39.349.096.aacc is RiccardoAlbertoni 14:09:24 +RiccardoAlbertoni; got it 14:09:25 +Caroline 14:09:27 newton has joined #dwbp 14:09:28 zakim, +1.510.384.aabb is me 14:09:28 +annette_g; got it 14:09:32 Zakim, Caroline is Yaso 14:09:32 +Yaso; got it 14:09:45 Zakim, yaso has Newton, Flavio and Nathalia 14:09:45 +Newton, Flavio, Nathalia; got it 14:09:46 +Yaso.a 14:09:49 Zakim, Caroline has nathalia 14:09:49 sorry, nathalia, I do not recognize a party named 'Caroline' 14:09:55 zakim, +1.609 is Eric_Kauz 14:09:55 +Eric_Kauz; got it 14:09:57 Zakim, Yaso.a is Caroline_ 14:09:57 +Caroline_; got it 14:09:58 +??P22 14:10:02 Zakim, who is here? 14:10:02 On the phone I see antoine, Eric_Kauz, Caroline_, annette_g, RiccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, HadleyBeeman, phila, Yaso, ??P22 14:10:04 Yaso has Newton, Flavio, Nathalia 14:10:04 On IRC I see newton, Zakim, Caroline_, annette_g, BernadetteLoscio, RiccardoAlbertoni, laufer, nathalia, yaso, Eric_Kauz, RRSAgent, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, deirdrelee, antoine, phila, 14:10:04 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, sandro, trackbot 14:10:13 +??P25 14:10:51 Zakim, who is here? 14:10:51 On the phone I see antoine, Eric_Kauz, Caroline_, annette_g, RiccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, HadleyBeeman, phila, Yaso, ??P22, ??P25 14:10:53 Yaso has Newton, Flavio, Nathalia 14:10:53 On IRC I see newton, Zakim, Caroline_, annette_g, BernadetteLoscio, RiccardoAlbertoni, laufer, nathalia, yaso, Eric_Kauz, RRSAgent, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, deirdrelee, antoine, phila, 14:10:53 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, sandro, trackbot 14:10:54 zakim, +??P25 is me 14:10:55 sorry, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, I do not recognize a party named '+??P25' 14:10:56 +[IPcaller] 14:11:05 Zakim, who is here? 14:11:05 On the phone I see antoine, Eric_Kauz, Caroline_, annette_g, RiccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, HadleyBeeman, phila, Yaso, ??P22, ??P25, [IPcaller] 14:11:06 zakim, IPcaller is me 14:11:08 Yaso has Newton, Flavio, Nathalia 14:11:08 On IRC I see newton, Zakim, Caroline_, annette_g, BernadetteLoscio, RiccardoAlbertoni, laufer, nathalia, yaso, Eric_Kauz, RRSAgent, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, deirdrelee, antoine, phila, 14:11:08 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, sandro, trackbot 14:11:08 +laufer; got it 14:11:09 -??P25 14:11:15 Zakim, who is here? 14:11:16 On the phone I see antoine, Eric_Kauz, Caroline_, annette_g, RiccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, HadleyBeeman, phila, Yaso, ??P22, laufer 14:11:18 Yaso has Newton, Flavio, Nathalia 14:11:18 On IRC I see newton, Zakim, Caroline_, annette_g, BernadetteLoscio, RiccardoAlbertoni, laufer, nathalia, yaso, Eric_Kauz, RRSAgent, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, deirdrelee, antoine, phila, 14:11:18 ... rhiaro, hadleybeeman, sandro, trackbot 14:11:19 zakim, ??P25 is me 14:11:19 I already had ??P25 as ??P25, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb 14:11:31 +??P24 14:11:34 cgueret has joined #dwbp 14:11:43 \mute me 14:11:46 flavio has joined #dwbp 14:11:52 zakim, mute laufer 14:11:52 laufer should now be muted 14:11:56 Zakim, mute me 14:11:56 laufer was already muted, laufer 14:11:58 -??P24 14:12:15 zakim, who is here? 14:12:15 On the phone I see antoine, Eric_Kauz, Caroline_, annette_g, RiccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, HadleyBeeman, phila, Yaso, ??P22, laufer (muted) 14:12:18 Yaso has Newton, Flavio, Nathalia 14:12:18 On IRC I see flavio, cgueret, newton, Zakim, Caroline_, annette_g, BernadetteLoscio, RiccardoAlbertoni, laufer, nathalia, yaso, Eric_Kauz, RRSAgent, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, 14:12:18 ... deirdrelee, antoine, phila, rhiaro, hadleybeeman, sandro, trackbot 14:12:27 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20141114 14:12:33 +[IPcaller] 14:12:35 +??P25 14:12:35 zakim, ipcaller is BernadetteLoscio 14:12:36 +BernadetteLoscio; got it 14:12:38 chair: Deirdre 14:12:39 zakim, ??P25 is me 14:12:39 +cgueret; got it 14:12:40 scribe: annette_g 14:12:42 zakim, mute me 14:12:42 cgueret should now be muted 14:12:47 zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio 14:12:47 BernadetteLoscio should now be muted 14:12:48 scribe: antoine 14:12:53 Regrets: Bart 14:13:06 +??P29 14:13:17 jerdeb has joined #DWBP 14:13:21 Last week's minutes 14:13:26 http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-11-07 14:13:28 PROPOSED: Acceot last week's minutes 14:13:38 s/acceot/accept 14:13:46 s/Acceot/Accept/ 14:13:47 +1 14:13:48 +1 14:13:49 +1 14:13:51 +1 14:13:57 +1 14:13:58 -??P29 14:14:02 +1 14:14:03 +1 14:14:04 +1 14:14:07 +1 14:14:07 +1 14:14:14 RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes 14:14:14 MakxDekkers has joined #dwbp 14:14:18 +1 14:14:25 Topic: Issues 14:14:26 zakim, P25 is me 14:14:26 sorry, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, I do not recognize a party named 'P25' 14:14:32 +??P28 14:14:35 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/open 14:14:46 +Steve 14:14:46 Zakim, ??P28 is me 14:14:48 +jerdeb; got it 14:14:51 Focusing on the Use Cases first 14:14:57 adler1 has joined #dwbp 14:14:58 Zakim, who is noisy? 14:14:58 I am sorry, nathalia; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now 14:15:09 issue-48? 14:15:09 issue-48 -- Phil to look at whether the ucr doc sufficiently covers code lists -- open 14:15:09 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/48 14:15:22 phila: it doesn't 14:15:32 ... suggests to close the issue :-) 14:15:56 ... We have already 30 UCs 14:16:00 +[IPcaller] 14:16:12 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:16:12 +MakxDekkers; got it 14:16:14 ... Perhaps an existing UC could be completed with code lists 14:16:53 deirdrelee: what are code lists? 14:17:09 phila: controlled vocabularies with list of values to be used 14:17:49 phila: I think the same reasoning (on requirements and use cases) could be applied more widely. 14:18:07 ... it's quite easy now to do this 14:18:16 Would it be interesting to look at how schema.org solved the issue ? I remember Peter Mika explaining something about it but forgot what their solution was 14:18:30 don't we run the risk of having too many use cases to digest? 14:18:31 ... I can review the use cases that I've put it to check if some are related to code lists 14:19:01 -cgueret 14:19:17 phila: Issue 49 about reference vocs is about the same isssu 14:19:22 s/isssu/issue 14:19:32 ... same for Issue 50 14:19:34 +??P25 14:19:39 zakim, ??P25 is me 14:19:39 +cgueret; got it 14:19:43 zakim, mute me 14:19:43 cgueret should now be muted 14:19:47 deirdrelee: I could take an action 14:19:53 q+ 14:19:55 q? 14:20:05 ... on writing to indiviual case authors about things they should check 14:20:06 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:20:06 On the phone I see antoine, Eric_Kauz, Caroline_, annette_g, RiccardoAlbertoni, deirdrelee, HadleyBeeman, phila, Yaso, ??P22, laufer (muted), BernadetteLoscio (muted), jerdeb, 14:20:09 ... Steve, MakxDekkers, cgueret (muted) 14:20:09 Yaso has Newton, Flavio, Nathalia 14:20:15 phila: and put an action on them! 14:20:21 intellectually it seems we are seeking new use cases to justify new ideas instead of investigating existing use cases more deeply to discover what we already may have 14:20:23 Zakim, P22 is AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb 14:20:23 sorry, Caroline_, I do not recognize a party named 'P22' 14:20:34 zakim, P22 is me 14:20:34 sorry, AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb, I do not recognize a party named 'P22' 14:20:37 Zakim, ??P22 is AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb 14:20:37 +AdrianoC-UFMG-INWeb; got it 14:20:47 -cgueret 14:21:17 q+ 14:21:21 +??P31 14:21:29 zakim, ??P31 is me 14:21:29 +cgueret; got it 14:21:31 zakim, mute me 14:21:31 cgueret should now be muted 14:21:31 action: Deirdre to review issues around UCR and contact individual use case authors to review them in the light of current issues and create relevant actions 14:21:31 Created ACTION-130 - Review issues around ucr and contact individual use case authors to review them in the light of current issues and create relevant actions [on Deirdre Lee - due 2014-11-21]. 14:21:58 [ annette_g asks about the rational for publishing UCs, deirdrelee answers] 14:23:22 q? 14:23:27 ack annette_g 14:23:44 [phila digs up what other groups have done - CSVW ] 14:23:56 ack adler1 14:24:03 zakim, ack adler 14:24:03 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:24:21 adler1: UC are important for relevancy 14:24:28 ... the publishing is less important 14:24:47 ... and it seems we're in a never ending process of revising UCs 14:25:00 http://www.w3.org/TR/ldp-ucr/ http://www.w3.org/TR/skos-ucr/ http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio-usecases/ 14:25:07 ... It seems that we've done a superficial documentation job on existing UCs 14:25:25 +1 to working use case to requirements, not the other way 14:25:36 ...The intent of light use cases was to establish contact 14:25:54 ... with owners, start a more organic process than what we have. 14:26:12 +1 14:26:26 q+ 14:26:32 q+ 14:26:40 ... UC like Palo Alto and NYC are really wide. They probably have discussed everything we're discussing 14:26:48 q- 14:26:53 deirdrelee: we agree 14:27:17 ... we're in process of refining, finding more details 14:27:33 ... what we need is not necessarily new UC, but diving deeper in existing UCs 14:27:39 zakim, ack annette_g 14:27:39 I see no one on the speaker queue 14:27:53 annette_g: we could look at them from the perspective of data re-user 14:28:04 ... not only the perspective of publisher 14:28:23 deirdrelee: seems a sensible idea 14:28:43 ... the scope is data on the web, so before it's used, but it's published to be used. 14:28:57 ... We seem to have general agreement 14:29:16 deirdrelee: BAck to issue-48. Phil should we close? 14:29:39 phila: we should have a list of current issues that UC owner should look at 14:30:09 ... if we find a UC that says something that someone else has said, the UC could be removed 14:30:33 deirdrelee: way to relate this to actions? 14:30:43 phila: your action should be enough 14:30:58 ... Including ISSUE-X in the mail you send seems ok. 14:31:41 ... same for issue-48, issue-49, issue50... 14:31:53 deirdrelee: We could list the issues now 14:31:57 issue-49? 14:31:58 issue-49 -- Phil to either improve on the definition of "reference vocabulary", or point to existing definitions -- open 14:31:58 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/49 14:32:02 issue-50? 14:32:02 issue-50 -- Bernadette to help us find more use cases on the vocabulary itself (including creating a vocabulary) -- open 14:32:02 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/50 14:32:29 issue-51? 14:32:29 issue-51 -- Phil to clarify the use of the word "provenance" any potential confusion it causes -- open 14:32:29 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/51 14:32:54 phila: it's part of the action of looking back at UCs 14:33:26 [ phila looking at issues] 14:33:38 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html 14:34:01 phila: there's a need to publish a new version no later than Dec 2! 14:34:30 ... it would be good to make enough progress on the document so that we can release a new version 14:34:33 I think we should discuss the new requirements from the new use cases 14:34:44 ... The kind of discussion we're having is useful for this. 14:34:59 yes... im talking for the next version 14:35:30 phila: annette_g and Eric Stephan have put new UCs 14:35:43 issue-91? 14:35:43 issue-91 -- New req: Locations (countries, regions, cities etc.) must be referred to consistently -- open 14:35:43 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/91 14:35:45 ... which resulted in new Reqs 14:36:08 R-Location 14:36:09 Locations (countries, regions, cities etc.) must be referred to consistently 14:36:10 phila: two new UCS make a lot of ref to location 14:36:23 s/location/locations 14:36:41 q? 14:36:42 ... it's not rocket science, but it is relevant, and testable 14:36:44 q+ 14:36:56 ... it has the three (meta) requirements we need 14:37:01 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/usecasesv1.html#R-Location 14:37:09 ... to declare it relevant. If the group agrees 14:37:21 deirdrelee: something about code lists? 14:37:31 phila: yes 14:37:53 deirdrelee: maybe we could add "for example, a location code list" for this 14:38:00 q+ 14:38:32 phila: we could recommend to use URIs for countries 14:38:43 ... some don't like this, but the data should be consistent in any case 14:39:02 q+ 14:39:09 zakim, ack deirdrelee 14:39:09 I see antoine, laufer on the speaker queue 14:39:17 -MakxDekkers 14:39:22 location is a kind of metadata, no? 14:39:40 zakim, ack antoine 14:39:40 I see laufer on the speaker queue 14:40:06 antoine: On code lists... my own project is an example. We just use text for countries. Code lists like ISO codes 3166-X would prove useful 14:40:21 +[IPcaller] 14:40:22 ... so I'd be in favour of adding this example of a locatiomn code list to the use case 14:40:26 zakim, unmute me 14:40:26 laufer should no longer be muted 14:40:31 zakim, ack antoine 14:40:31 I see laufer on the speaker queue 14:40:32 q? 14:40:36 ack laufer 14:40:39 zakim, ipcaller is me 14:40:39 +MakxDekkers; got it 14:40:55 laufer: we will find a lot of things particular to each of the publication. 14:41:14 ... it will be difficult to define the exaxt form to do this 14:41:22 s/exaxt/exact 14:41:30 q+ 14:41:48 s/form/way 14:41:50 i think that the recommendation of URIs should be general, not just for countries 14:41:51 a+ 14:41:55 q+ 14:41:59 q+ 14:42:04 zakim, mute me 14:42:05 laufer should now be muted 14:42:32 antoine: laufer - think you're right. We prob cannot force people to use one list for everyone, but we can recommend some patterns 14:42:50 ... like ISO codes, URI sets etc. and you might want to encourage their use in a given community 14:43:01 +1 to antoine 14:43:08 +1 to antoine 14:43:13 ack hadleybeeman 14:43:13 q? 14:43:18 q- 14:43:18 +1 to antoine 14:43:18 q- antoine 14:43:18 zakim, ack hadleybeeman 14:43:19 I see phila on the speaker queue 14:43:46 hadleybeeman: list of countries are very political 14:44:12 ack me 14:44:18 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#bp-license 14:44:30 deirdre + phila : we agree 14:44:55 phila: pointing to the license BP: it doesn't specify one single way to do it 14:45:11 ... rather, it says what the intension is, and gives possible implementation 14:45:27 ... sthg like "here's one acceptable way you could do it" 14:45:41 I guess that some metadata values should be defined bt URIs, for examploe: location 14:46:04 deirdrelee: should we incorporate the req? 14:46:27 q+ 14:46:33 Steve: it's a specific field: should it be included explicitly? 14:46:38 ... GIS is super important 14:46:57 s/examploe/example 14:47:01 ... but does it deserve specific formal requirement? 14:47:16 phila: if it's not included then it won't be in the BP doc 14:47:23 steve: I'm good with it! 14:47:26 adler1 has joined #dwbp 14:47:38 +1 to PhilA 14:47:40 Locations (countries, regions, cities etc.) must be referred to consistently 14:47:54 q- 14:48:03 +q 14:48:04 phila: this is the current phrase, the intension was to link it to the use of code lists 14:48:27 adler1: most of the UCs I wrote have GIS/maps in them 14:49:01 ... which location: location in map or physical location? 14:49:13 phila: many cases 14:49:27 q? 14:49:30 ... as long as the case have consistent practice 14:49:39 zakim, unmute BernadetteLoscio 14:49:39 BernadetteLoscio should no longer be muted 14:49:47 ack BernadetteLoscio 14:49:57 BernadetteLoscio: not sure the requirement should be specific to location 14:50:05 ... other type of metadtaa could have the same 14:50:05 q+ to say it's not all about metadata 14:50:12 q+ 14:50:22 adler1: is there a downside? 14:50:26 +1 to bernadette 14:50:34 ack me 14:50:34 phila, you wanted to say it's not all about metadata 14:50:34 zakim, mute BernadetteLoscio 14:50:35 BernadetteLoscio should now be muted 14:50:38 ... I don't think it's exclusive 14:50:47 s/metadtaa/metadata 14:51:28 phila: yes, spatial is relevant for metadata. Also for structural data itself. 14:51:36 ok... i understand 14:51:40 but again... 14:51:50 s/structural data/structural metadata and data itself 14:51:52