IRC log of tt on 2014-11-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-irc

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RRSAgent, make logs public

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Zakim, this will be TTML

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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

14:59:59 [trackbot]

Date: 13 November 2014

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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started

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+pal

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+nigel

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Present: pal, nigel, atai

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Regrets: glenn, courtney

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chair: nigel

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Present+ tmichel

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+Andreas

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15:02:08 [nigel]

Present+ Frans

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+Frans

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+??P19

15:03:37 [tmichel]

zakim, ??P19 is me

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+tmichel; got it

15:05:24 [nigel]

scribeNick: nigel

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Topic: This meeting

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group: no other business

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15:07:36 [nigel]

nigel: Notes no meeting on 25th December and 1st January

15:08:22 [nigel]

tmichel: We have agreement to publish the FPWD of WebVTT; I'm still waiting on the announcement.

15:08:57 [nigel]

... I publish the document in place, and then the web master adds the links, which is the publication process, as well

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... as making the announcement and putting on W3C home page.

15:09:32 [nigel]

Topic: IMSC 1 review comments

15:11:11 [nigel]

nigel: Our plan for today is to go through all the comments and if we can move them all to Resolved then send replies.

15:11:27 [nigel]

... In order to do that we'll need to agree a response deadline for the commenter, which goes into the emails.

15:11:54 [nigel]

pal: I've had some comments from Andreas and Nigel, which I think are editorial only. I propose to edit them in place now.

15:12:20 [nigel]

pal: First one is a typo from nigel - double 'use'.

15:12:56 [nigel]

pal: For a future agenda, we should consider the general move to git instead of Mercurial, so when Glenn's present it

15:13:00 [nigel]

... would be good to discuss that.

15:13:22 [nigel]

Frans: +1 to using git

15:14:10 [nigel]

pal: Another from Nigel: for LC-2977. You're proposing to add conformance language and use the term "normal rendering"

15:14:25 [nigel]

... I'm concerned with using "normal rendering" which isn't defined.

15:15:28 [nigel]

... SHALL vs NOT SHALL - I don't think that's needed but could be okay.

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15:16:02 [nigel]

nigel: The bigger point is that "no impact on presentation" could be misinterpreted as "no presentation" which isn't what we mean.

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+Mike

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15:16:19 [nigel]

pal: This was a response to Andreas's point - I'd actually prefer to remove the sentence altogether.

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+jdsmith

15:16:29 [nigel]

Present+ Mike, jdsmith

15:18:09 [nigel]

andreas: From a practical point of view the text as written could be intepreted as requiring that forcedDisplay must be set to true for everything.

15:18:28 [nigel]

pal: That's only the case if displayForcedMode is true.

15:19:04 [nigel]

andreas: If you set the external parameter to true and none of the content has an applicable forcedDisplay attribute then

15:19:07 [nigel]

... nothing is shown.

15:19:17 [nigel]

pal: That's right - by default displayForcedOnlyMode is false.

15:19:45 [nigel]

andreas: The practical implication is that authors might always set forcedDisplay to true.

15:20:13 [nigel]

mike: It's important to note the relevant external context here, in which a track may be selected and displayed or not displayed.

15:22:22 [nigel]

... The forcedDisplayMode forces the deselected text content to play in specific circumstances.

15:22:37 [nigel]

nigel: We need to find an alternate form of words that addresses the editorial issue here.

15:23:09 [nigel]

pal: I'm happy to a) remove the last sentence or b) keep as it is but not c) use the term "normal rendering".

15:23:32 [nigel]

nigel: I'm not happy with leaving as is.

15:23:54 [nigel]

andreas: can we use something like "all other combinations ... do not change the computed presentation" or something like that?

15:24:17 [nigel]

pal: Glenn was adamant that this parameter should have no impact on other computed values - let's not introduce another problem.

15:26:07 [nigel]

nigel: How about removing the additional sentence and replacing "If the value of" in the previous sentence with "If, and only if, the value of" ...

15:26:44 [nigel]

andreas: Yes, that works.

15:26:54 [nigel]

pal: Okay, I've captured that.

15:27:07 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2977

15:27:30 [nigel]

pal: The resolution text does not need to be changed because it points to the latest editor's draft.

15:27:53 [nigel]

pal: Next is LC-2973

15:27:59 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2973

15:28:32 [nigel]

andreas: I like the solution in 6.2 but in 6.3 what we want to say here is that the namespace defined by W3C can only

15:28:52 [nigel]

... be added to by W3C and no other entities. The last sentence says that all undefined names in these namespaces are

15:29:08 [nigel]

... reserved for future standardisation by the W3C. I'm not sure if that's quite the right term.

15:29:15 [nigel]

pal: I copied exactly what was in TTML1.

15:29:39 [nigel]

andreas: Okay, if everyone understands the intended meaning then I'm fine with that. The only proposal is to add that

15:30:21 [nigel]

pal: I tried to do exactly what TTML1 already does so at least it's the same.

15:30:33 [nigel]

s/The proposal is to add that/

15:30:57 [nigel]

pal: Next one is LC-2982

15:31:06 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2982

15:33:03 [nigel]

andreas: I think we've already worked on this (forced display). I was just thinking about the impact on authors for using

15:33:20 [nigel]

... the feature. I think it's correct as it says, and I have no further proposal for a change.

15:33:36 [nigel]

pal: The last one with a comment is LC-2978

15:33:43 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/34314/WD-ttml-imsc1-20140930/2978

15:34:13 [nigel]

pal: I think Andreas suggested that the section 2 Document Conventions should be a direct link to the section in TTML1

15:34:17 [nigel]

... rather than a general link?

15:34:22 [nigel]

andreas: Yes

15:34:53 [nigel]

pal: The challenge is I think the conventions aren't only in the TTML1 document conventions section. For example

15:35:31 [nigel]

... the XML representation is in TTML1 §2.3, but the way styling attributes are specified is in the styling section inline.

15:35:40 [nigel]

... So I wanted to cast a wider net rather than a narrower one.

15:36:55 [nigel]

nigel: I can't see anything defining a document convention in TTML 1 §8 Styling

15:37:23 [nigel]

pal: That's right - we're using the same convention as the styling attribute tables in TTML1 §8 but it isn't clearly

15:37:44 [nigel]

... defined anywhere even in TTML1. I don't think we can link to only one place.

15:38:03 [nigel]

andreas: The main reason for the comment was about the XML representation, where the bold attribute format is

15:38:11 [nigel]

... defined as 'required'.

15:38:27 [nigel]

pal: So we can add 'in particular see section 2.3 for the specification of the XML representation of elements'?

15:38:31 [nigel]

andreas: +1

15:39:24 [nigel]

pal: [edits in place with slight tweaks to the above wording for precision]

15:39:34 [nigel]

pal: I think that covers all the comments.

15:40:13 [nigel]

nigel: In that case I think we can set all the comments to one kind of Resolved or another.

15:40:24 [nigel]

pal: I don't know how to pick the different types of Resolved!

15:41:13 [nigel]

tmichel: They're resolved within the WG then we need the agreement from the commenter.

15:41:18 [nigel]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/Guide2LCtracker/overview.html#Resolution

15:42:21 [nigel]

nigel: I think we have to choose the appropriate Resolved-[yes|partial|no] status on a comment by comment basis.

15:42:27 [nigel]

jdsmith: That makes sense to me.

15:42:59 [nigel]

tmichel: The three options will show on the final disposition document with green/yellow/red colour coding

15:43:29 [nigel]

pal: When the comments are resolved, how do we notify the commenter?

15:48:18 [nigel]

nigel: If it's okay I will decide on the status for each one, and then we can send the replies.

15:48:26 [nigel]

... We need a feedback date though.

15:48:36 [nigel]

pal: I propose by next Thursday so we have the status by the next meeting.

15:49:07 [nigel]

tmichel: My notes do say 'if the comment meets the commenters request then we should put resolved-yes' etc.

15:49:31 [nigel]

... so before sending the response we have to set this status. Then there's another box for the commenter to agree.

15:49:38 [nigel]

... So there are two different levels.

15:49:43 [nigel]

nigel: I'll set the statuses.

15:50:12 [nigel]

nigel: When I've done that I'll send thierry an email asking for the replies to be reviewed and sent.

15:50:22 [nigel]

tmichel: That's fine, then I'll track the responses from the commenters.

15:50:36 [nigel]

nigel: And we'll set a reply-by date of Thursday 20th November.

15:51:04 [nigel]

pal: I've checked in the modification to the tip, incorporating all the changes from today.

15:51:23 [nigel]

action-349?

15:51:23 [trackbot]

action-349 -- Nigel Megitt to Submit imsc 1 to itu-r working party 6b by 10th november -- due 2014-11-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW

15:51:23 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/349

15:51:37 [nigel]

close action-349

15:51:37 [trackbot]

Closed action-349.

15:51:46 [nigel]

action-348?

15:51:46 [trackbot]

action-348 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Thank dvb for input re lc-2983 -- due 2014-11-13 -- OPEN

15:51:46 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/348

15:52:36 [nigel]

pal: I suggest it is more efficient for you to do this Nigel.

15:53:27 [nigel]

nigel: I suggest we just use the Replies to Comments here with Resolution-yes. If you can do action-348 by adding the

15:53:37 [nigel]

... thank you message to LC-2983 then I'll just go ahead with that.

15:53:42 [nigel]

pal: Thanks, I'll do that.

15:54:07 [nigel]

Topic: Note on TTML versions

15:54:12 [nigel]

action-344?

15:54:12 [trackbot]

action-344 -- Cyril Concolato to Draft a wg note explaining the differences and relationships between the various versions of ttml -- due 2014-11-03 -- OPEN

15:54:12 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/344

15:54:35 [nigel]

https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/5ee90ec0d897/ttml-status/index.html

15:54:56 [nigel]

nigel: Cyril has done this and checked it in. The group should review this and propose any edits needed.

15:55:03 [nigel]

close action-344

15:55:03 [trackbot]

Closed action-344.

15:55:38 [nigel]

Topic: Change Proposals

15:56:26 [nigel]

nigel: I've sent a survey email out about CP25 and hope to raise it as an agenda item next week.

15:57:16 [nigel]

Action: nigel Set the status of the IMSC 1 Review comments

15:57:16 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-350 - Set the status of the imsc 1 review comments [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-11-20].

15:57:41 [Zakim]

-jdsmith

15:57:43 [Zakim]

-Andreas

15:57:45 [Zakim]

-pal

15:57:47 [Zakim]

-Mike

15:57:51 [nigel]

nigel: Adjourns meeting. Thanks everyone - our next meeting is 1 hour, at the usual time next week.

15:57:57 [Zakim]

-nigel

15:58:00 [Zakim]

-Frans

15:58:27 [nigel]

rrsagent, make logs public

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rrsagent, generate minutes

15:58:31 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-minutes.html nigel

16:01:21 [nigel]

s/The only proposal is to add that/

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s|s/The proposal is to add that/|

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rrsagent, generate minutes

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-minutes.html nigel

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ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics

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rrsagent, generate minutes

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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/11/13-tt-minutes.html nigel

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disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM

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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended

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Attendees were pal, nigel, Andreas, Frans, tmichel, Mike, jdsmith

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