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17:52:54 <phila> present+ Frederick Hirsch
17:53:19 <phila> Meeting: Web API for health care sensors
17:53:28 <phila> chair: Frederick
17:53:38 <phila> Topic: Intros round the table
17:54:04 <phila> Frederick: Sets up the meeting, how sensors have come up in places like sysApps
17:54:24 <phila> ... is chair of the DAP WG
17:54:32 <phila> scribe: phila
17:54:36 <phila> scribeNick: phila
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17:55:26 <phila> present+ Deborah Dahl
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17:55:48 <phila> Frederick: Is there enough interest in a new IG/WG in this area
17:56:01 <phila> ddahl: I'm chair of local interaction WG
17:56:16 <phila> ... we've looked at things like glucose meters
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17:56:28 <phila> ... sensors are burgeoning, how do we get it standardised
17:56:58 <phila> ericp: I'm HCLS team contact. I'm interested in how we can use this to fill gaps in medical data
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17:57:31 <phila> Klaus: I have an interest from a Web research, WoT, POV. I'm also diabetic so glucose sensors are important to me
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17:57:45 <phila> Present+ Klaus
17:57:55 <phila> rrsagent, make logs public
17:58:16 <phila> Klaus: This is not just restriced to medical, but also things like different diets
17:58:30 <phila> Present+ Dave Raggett
17:58:41 <phila> dsr: I'll be talking about Web of Things later
17:58:54 <phila> ... is this about sensors talking to browsers?
17:58:57 <phila> Frederick: I don't think it's that well defined
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17:59:27 <wonsuk> Present+ Wonsuk_Lee
17:59:29 <ddahl> present+ Debbie_Dahl
17:59:35 <dsr> Present+ Dave Raggett
17:59:36 <jungkees> Present+ Jungkee_Song
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18:00:27 <phila_> ??: W try and make use of proprietary sensors (Tomo Digtal??)
18:00:34 <Claes> Present+ Claes_Nilsson
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18:01:20 <Evangelos> Present+ Evangelos Vlachogiannis (Fraunhofer)
18:01:26 <phila_> Gentleman from Tencent... looking at connection to physical devices
18:01:56 <phila_> ... using IM
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18:03:53 <phila_> Another gentleman from Tencent - how can healthcare data be socialised (? hope I got that right, forgive me)
18:04:11 <phila_> ... sharing data within a community that has relevant privacy and security controls
18:04:36 <phila_> SteveB: GS1 has a huge healthcare community. Every device has its won ID etc
18:04:48 <phila_> ... unique ID is clearly important
18:04:54 <phila_> present+ Steve_Bratt
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18:05:07 <phila_> ... we talk about authentication etc. so ID is critical
18:05:53 <phila_> Francis from Shanghai - I'm interested in implementing a healthcare system in Shanghai. The medical staff can use their mobile device to track the patient anad find out the patient's condition
18:06:02 <phila_> ... need a central repository for this data
18:06:09 <phila_> ... we make use of HTML5
18:06:39 <phila_> Tim from Google - we're trying to make sense of sensor data
18:07:05 <phila> Gentleman from Fraunhofer
18:07:32 <phila> ... we have expertise on accessibility. We don't make APIs for sensors - we mostly do R&D projects funed by EU
18:07:47 <phila> ... we cna help with requirements that we have from the sensors
18:08:13 <phila> s/cna/can/
18:08:21 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:08:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-health-minutes.html phila
18:08:41 <Steve_Bratt> GS1 healtchcare standards work:  http://www.gs1.org/healthcare/standards
18:09:01 <phila> ... looking at how we can have sensors and then make sense of that data for users (scribe note I hope I got that right)
18:09:38 <phila> Pater from Panasonic
18:10:01 <phila> Panasonic makes sensors - we want to be able to integrate them more into the WoT
18:10:05 <phila> s/pater/Peter/
18:10:34 <phila> fjh: When you move from standalone to integrated, what's the biggest challenge?
18:10:46 <phila> Peter: Right now everything's standalone
18:11:06 <phila> fjh: So issues like privacy and security are issues but also underlying protocol layers?
18:11:08 <phila> Peter: yes
18:11:31 <phila> ... Not really anything Web-specific yet
18:11:53 <phila> scribe note - sorry missed this gentleman's name and affiliation
18:12:20 <phila> ?? Kim from Korea
18:12:31 <paulliu> Paul Liu from Huawei Technologies
18:12:38 <phila> My company makes a healthcare device...
18:12:54 <phila> present+ Paul_Liu
18:13:06 <phila> Gentleman from Samsung
18:13:16 <phila> As you know we have a lot of different devices...
18:13:25 <phila> ... we're trying to make a Web platform like a Tizen
18:13:43 <phila> ... we need to expose Web API for sensors like pedometers
18:13:57 <phila> ... how can we handle this kind of API on the Web.
18:14:17 <phila> Tongison from Samsung
18:14:26 <phila> ... talking about the same things as Winsong
18:14:54 <phila> phila: Apologises sincerely for my inability to catch so many names properly. I hope no offence is taken by those present
18:15:53 <phila> Present+ Ken_Laskey
18:16:15 <phila> Ken: At MITRE I support ?? which is trying to get a lot of health data from a lot of people
18:16:28 <phila> ... so I need to be able to advise them on what's coming down the pipe wrt standards
18:17:25 <phila> Ken: My other issue is how different is this from a vehicle API? Privacy may be different
18:18:34 <wonsuk> s/Gentleman from Samsung/wonsuk from Samsung/
18:18:53 <jungkees> s/Winsong/Wonsuk
18:19:24 <jungkees> s/Tongison/Jungkee
18:19:24 <phila> Steve_Bratt: If you're having a medicine delivery system, the couterpart might be a sensor to measure effect
18:19:39 <phila> phila: Community group on APIs http://www.w3.org/community/hydra/
18:19:54 <phila> phila: Automotive Business group http://www.w3.org/community/autowebplatform/
18:20:07 <Hyunjin> s/?? Kim/Hyunjin
18:20:30 <phila> ericP: Social Apps are different but how do we share a bunch of different devices send different sources
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18:20:54 <phila> fjh: I was thinking Annotations might be relevant to noting properties
18:21:07 <phila> ericP: I also noted security and general interrogation of devices
18:21:45 <phila> ... in terms of possible attacks - you need to protect things like pace makers, subdermal insulin systems etc. These ahave all been attacked by promximity to other systems
18:21:53 <phila> s/ahave/have/
18:22:22 <phila> dsr: Live data is not the same as periodic
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18:22:54 <phila> ericP: You're going to need to turn strings of 1s and 0s into strings that can be processed
18:23:01 <phila> ken: Everything has policies related to it (P&S etc.)
18:23:08 <Claes> q+
18:23:14 <phila> ... devices will have policies attached and we need to understand that
18:23:30 <phila> fjh: Do people read policies? usability is an issue
18:23:41 <phila> ... data overload/ sensor overload is an issue
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18:24:07 <phila> ericP: It's up to us to understand the policies...
18:24:09 <phila> q+
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18:24:21 <phila> q+ Claes
18:24:25 <phila> q+ phila
18:24:40 <phila> ack Claes
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18:25:00 <phila> Claes: How much should we look at other orgs' work...
18:25:16 <phila> ... I'm not aware of the current status of other work but maybe we need to be?
18:25:21 <phila> ... What can we reuse from their work?
18:25:23 <ddahl> q+ to mention that some of these concerns also came out in the earlier robots session
18:25:27 <phila> fjh: I'm not informed
18:25:44 <phila> ??: Things like HL7 are used to exchange medical data
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18:29:48 <phila_> ddahl: I wanted to say something about... there's a lot around privacy, security, authorisation - how can control the robot etc.
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18:30:08 <phila_> ddsr: Talked about mobile phones as sensors - can't program that with JavaScript
18:30:15 <phila_> s/ddsr/dsr/
18:30:33 <phila_> ddahl: Robots are even more diverse than sensors
18:30:49 <phila_> q?
18:30:52 <phila_> q-
18:30:59 <phila_> Ack ddahl
18:30:59 <Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to mention that some of these concerns also came out in the earlier robots session
18:31:27 <phila_> ericP: I see 2 pieces ... coding requires attaching a long tail of capabilities and observation codes
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18:31:35 <fjh> q+
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18:31:43 <phila_> q- phila
18:31:55 <fjh> ack fjh
18:31:59 <phila_> ack fjh
18:32:15 <phila_> fjh: The DAP has had a long conversation about the balance between generic and specific
18:32:26 <phila_> ... a lot of stuff is event driven
18:32:54 <phila_> ... I'm trying to figure whether the Web model being event driven fits
18:33:07 <phila_> ... and what Eric was saying about the long tail suggetss we need a more generic approach
18:33:21 <phila_> ... in DAP we moved away from that because we wanted to work in a short time frame
18:33:26 <phila_> ... generic opens the door to fingerprinting
18:33:40 <phila_> ... to avoid fingerpringinting, we reduce the amount of data available
18:33:58 <ddahl_> robots session had a lot of the same concerns -- authorization, privacy, security, discovery of capabilities, timing (e.g. realtime vs scheduling) what messaging API's are best? and are there concerns related to low-level protocols?
18:34:09 <phila_> Fingerprinting is the idea that I can identify you without an ID for you as I look at what I can see and your behaviour. I can identify you without an ID
18:34:28 <phila_> ... I can probably gather enough info to identify you. I can get your browser etc.
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18:34:36 <phila_> So fingerprinting can become an issue
18:34:38 <ddahl_> also in the robots session we talked about graceful degradation
18:34:50 <phila_> ... a generic sensor API may be open to fingerprinting
18:35:03 <phila_> ericP: So that assumes that the attacker has access to that data
18:35:16 <phila_> ... the other way is to give the user to have accecss control
18:35:34 <phila_> fjh: So in DAP we looked at a security model but it didn't work for the Web
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18:35:58 <phila_> ... we decided in the end just to use explicit consent dialogues
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18:36:07 <Evangelos> q+
18:36:25 <phila_> ack Evangelos
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18:36:34 <phila_> q+ Ken
18:37:00 <phila_> Evangelos: (Franhofer) I think it would be useful to identify 3 situations
18:37:21 <phila_> ... immediate need, longer term for doctors etc.
18:37:22 <phila_> ... and proactive healthcare
18:37:34 <fjh> ack ken
18:37:45 <phila_> ... this is a hot topic at the moment. They are t rying to prevent people from having a health problem
18:37:52 <phila_> ... and are we covering elderly people, children?
18:37:59 <phila_> ... target groups need identifying
18:38:42 <phila_> fjh: I'm trying to forumlate an understand of how that relates to W3C. I think here we do more horizontal
18:39:02 <phila_> ... if you do that then they should apply across the board including automotive, healthcare...
18:39:41 <phila_> Ken: the idea from getting from generic to specific. On specific you'll forever be coming up with new API descriptions
18:40:02 <dsr> q+ Eric
18:40:12 <phila_> Ken: The idea would be that the standard can handle the horizontal and then CGs can write the verticals
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18:40:32 <Claes> q+
18:40:35 <phila_> q+
18:41:28 <phila_> q-
18:41:43 <ddahl_> we also talked about capabilities vocabularies for different kinds of robots that could be plugged into a generic API
18:41:57 <phila_> Ken: So the horizontal would be the basic and then CGs would extend and feed back
18:42:05 <phila_> phila_: That matches the schema.org system
18:42:30 <yusuke> q+
18:42:35 <phila_> dsr: We're launching a WoT Interest Group to look at overall picture, and this may then lead to specific WGs
18:42:59 <phila_> fjh: That makes sense but that has the poss problems faced by SysApps and DAP
18:43:16 <phila_> ack eric
18:43:35 <phila_> ericP: For a large class of these devices, we care more about protection than things like fingerprinting
18:43:47 <phila_> ... you sai reduce the capabilities to prevent fingerprinting
18:44:17 <phila_> ... we don't mind if a device has bluetooth or FNC connection - that can be public. But the fact that it's a glucose sensor is more private
18:44:25 <phila_> s/sai/said/
18:44:30 <jungkees> s/FNC/NFC/
18:44:33 <phila_> ack Claes
18:44:48 <fjh> q+ to ask about layering and discovery
18:45:41 <phila_> ack yusuke
18:45:59 <phila_> yusuke: Dave, you said you were looking for a common standpoint for missions of device
18:46:00 <fjh> we did look at discovery etc in dap with webintents
18:46:07 <phila_> yusuke: As you know, that's hard
18:46:23 <phila_> yusuke: A big company might take the market...
18:46:42 <phila_> yusuke: So I think we need a strategy to handle marketing and standardising
18:47:11 <phila_> fjh: I'm not sure we should talk about market segments
18:47:34 <phila_> dsr: The Interest Group can look at what is needed and that will cover open and closed markets
18:47:36 <phila_> ack fjh
18:47:36 <Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about layering and discovery
18:48:15 <phila_> fjh: I think discovery is a big area, layering and discovering... not knowing whether it's an insulin pump or not is an issue
18:48:24 <phila_> ericP: You need to be authorised to find that out
18:48:37 <phila_> dsr: For healthcare - your doctor needs to know who you are
18:49:01 <phila_> ericP: when you have a sub dermal defribulator will have an ID
18:49:23 <fjh> q?
18:49:33 <phila_> topic: Summary
18:49:43 <phila_> fjh: We have a number of general requirements gathered today
18:49:57 <phila_> we have the notion that a generic approach has value for scalability
18:50:22 <phila_> we have that an approach similar to schema.org with a horizontal base with CGs can be spun off to handle verticls
18:50:48 <phila_> ericP: The security model is an issue to address
18:50:58 <phila_> ... authentication required for interrogation
18:51:09 <phila_> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:51:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-health-minutes.html phila_
18:51:24 <phila_> fjh: With authentication, more data is appropriate
18:51:56 <phila_> fjh: The next step is to express interest in the Interest Group
18:52:24 <phila_> dsr: Explains W3C process for establishing and joining new groups
18:52:39 <phila_> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:52:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-health-minutes.html phila_
18:53:40 <phila_> yusuke: This IG will be about Web of Things, not just healthcare?
18:53:43 <phila_> Dsr: yes
18:53:52 <phila_> ... we want to see what the areas havea in common etc
18:54:08 <phila_> fjh: Did we miss anything?
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18:54:25 <phila_> ... feel free to add to the IRC if you have projects etc. to look at
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18:55:00 <phila_> RRSAgent, generate minutes
18:55:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-health-minutes.html phila_
18:55:19 <Claes> We should investigate what other relevant organizations are doing in this area, e.g. Bluetooth SIG and Continua Health Alliance
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