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17:41:52 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
17:42:01 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:42:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-after5-minutes.html ArtB
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17:42:47 <ArtB> Present+ Art_Barstow, Sam_Ruby, Paul_Cotton, Chris_Wilson, Mikko_Terho, Mark_Vickers, Tantek_Celick, Mike_Champion
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17:46:13 <AdamB> present+
17:46:23 <Dong-Young> Present+ Dong-Young_Lee
17:46:23 <rubys> present+ sam_ruby
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17:46:32 <miterho> Present+miterho
17:46:33 <AdamB> present+ AdamB
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17:46:47 <cwilso> zakim, who is here?
17:46:47 <Zakim> sorry, cwilso, I don't know what conference this is
17:46:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see BillHofmann, hjlee, Zakim, koalie, tdenney, alant, MarkVickers, stone, LJWatson, nvdbleek, whyun, SimonSapin, Dong-Young, rubys, miterho, AdamB, mchampion, dromasca,
17:46:48 <Zakim> ... IsabelleH, Zefa_, scottp, GeunHyung, RRSAgent, paulc_, donghoon, cwilso, edoyle, ArtB, raphael, skim13
17:46:51 <ArtB> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/session-after5 After 5 Session
17:46:52 <nvdbleek> present+ Nick Van den Bleeken
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17:47:00 <koalie> koalie has changed the topic to: https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014#Session_Grid
17:47:04 <koalie> scribenick: koalie
17:47:06 <MarkVickers> present+ Mark Vickers
17:47:13 <AWK> Present+ Andrew Kirkpatrick
17:47:17 <BillHofmann> present+ Bill Hofmann
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17:47:27 <koalie> meeting: Breakout: After (HTML) 5 - Web Standards Ecosystem in 2024
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17:47:38 <koalie> present+ CoralieMercier
17:47:45 <brianraymor> Present+ Brian_Raymor
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17:48:03 <marcosc> Present+ Marcos_Caceres
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17:48:14 <koalie> Art: welcome. Robin, Marcos and Brian will give intros
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17:48:22 <koalie> ... and then discussion
17:48:26 <koalie> Art: my intro
17:48:37 <koalie> ... been a member of the w3c community for many years; many roles
17:48:51 <koalie> ... delighted to be here and looking fwd to this afternoon's symposium
17:49:02 <koalie> ... W3C mostly operates as designed 25 years ago
17:49:09 <LJWatson> present + LJWatson
17:49:18 <koalie> ... interested in feedback on how the consortium can do to move forward
17:49:25 <koalie> ... there are sample questions in wiki
17:49:37 <koalie> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2014/session-after5 wiki: TPAC2014/session-after5
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17:49:47 <koalie> Marcos: Involved with w3c for 7 or 8 years
17:49:53 <brutzman> brutzman has joined #after5
17:50:09 <koalie> ... most recently, and related to this, was the work myself and others did to standardise the Picture element
17:50:22 <koalie> ... there is a number of interesting challenges we encountered
17:50:32 <koalie> ... there are good take-aways there
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17:50:49 <koalie> ... understandings we can bring to the w3c standardisation process
17:51:00 <koalie> Brian: I work for the Apollo education group
17:51:01 <tantek_> present since 10:44 - been trying to join IRC since
17:51:10 <koalie> ... I represent jquery foundation in the CSS WG
17:51:13 <koalie> ... we'd like to change things
17:51:23 <koalie> ... I didn't write an article about web 2024
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17:51:34 <koalie> ... we're not where we should be, how do we get there?
17:51:40 <dka> dka has joined #after5
17:51:49 <koalie> ... I believe the extensible web manifesto lays down a vision
17:52:14 <koalie> ... EWM: standards are developed in a room like this, with people like this
17:52:30 <koalie> ... we take a while to deliver and sometimes the value isn't great
17:52:43 <koalie> ... there are thousands of things developers need they don't get
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17:52:57 <koalie> ... dictionaries don't invent words
17:53:33 <koalie> ... it may take a news caster, or a magazine to broadcast and get noticed
17:53:52 <koalie> ... I believe it takes employing developers to do some of that work and finding ways to make that work
17:54:03 <koalie> Robin: WOW
17:54:22 <koalie> ... this room is packed. People care.
17:54:32 <koalie> ... I've been editor of the HTML5 spec for 2 years
17:54:42 <koalie> ... the idea is that we've been driven by this ship ship ship approach
17:54:47 <koalie> ... what do we do after that?
17:54:52 <koalie> ... what can we improve?
17:54:55 <koalie> ... we can improve
17:55:07 <koalie> ... I'm not attempting for w3c to change top down
17:55:15 <koalie> ... we can change pretty much everything
17:55:17 <ArtB> -> http://darobin.github.io/after5/ Robin's After 5 article/blog
17:55:20 <koalie> ... despite what you may have heard
17:55:26 <koalie> ... there are properties we want to keep
17:55:31 <koalie> ... like patent policy
17:55:35 <koalie> ... but we're fluid
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17:55:50 <koalie> ... also, a lot of us have professional @@ that we're changing things by talking
17:55:56 <koalie> ... I wish for us to change things by doing.
17:56:02 <koalie> ... I invite pull requests
17:56:15 <koalie> ... fork it, make the changes you think are good, pull request
17:56:28 <koalie> ... it's the general idea that we should change by doing things rather than talking too much about them
17:56:45 <koalie> ... so, a lot of what I've been writing here stem from my experience for the past 15 years
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17:56:55 <koalie> ... also, the experience with HTML I've found much instructive
17:57:29 <koalie> ... technologies are hard, standards are hard, but at least, we can lift some barriers and make things easier
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17:57:52 <mchampion> q?
17:58:08 <koalie> ... in terms of Standards Developement, we can learn from software development
17:58:20 <mchampion> q+
17:58:36 <koalie> ... this is not rocket science, this is something we have been doing for a long time
17:58:46 <koalie> ... we don't need monster documents that are impossible to manage
17:58:55 <koalie> ... also, practices from open source community
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17:59:06 <koalie> ... when I started, it was considered bizarre
17:59:19 <tantek> On the record: I'm skeptical about looking at "software development" as an example. Software dies faster than *successful* standards.
17:59:25 <koalie> ... back then, you could download source, get it out somewhere, but if you wanted to change, you needed to cvs co
17:59:37 <koalie> ... somehow the patch could get lost over e-mail
17:59:43 <koalie> ... got a bit better with svn
17:59:57 <koalie> ... cost to contribution was slightly better
18:00:00 <tantek> I do agree with the problem of "didn't get lost over email". Email lists is where rational discussion goes to die.
18:00:05 <koalie> ... then we got git and mercurial
18:00:13 <koalie> ... very simple
18:00:24 <koalie> ... especially if you benefit from tooling which integrate
18:00:30 <koalie> ... we've learned at lot
18:00:34 <koalie> ... today this is natural
18:00:50 <koalie> ... at conference, people sometimes don't understand there was a different world before
18:01:06 <koalie> ... what I would like to do forward for HTML and other specs, is move to that model
18:01:17 <koalie> ... you see a bug? fork the repo, change, pull request
18:01:23 <koalie> ... or share your idea and write a spec
18:01:34 <koalie> ... run a script to create the spec
18:01:41 <koalie> ... not necessarily direct access to W3C
18:01:50 <tantek> In general I'm a favor of lowering the barrier to suggesting (or just doing) minor fixes to specs to a broader set of folks. E.g. via git, or even better via wiki.
18:01:52 <koalie> ... but a way to learn from experience of RICG
18:02:00 <tantek> s/a favor/in favor
18:02:00 <ArtB> q?
18:02:27 <mchampion> q-
18:02:31 <koalie> PaulCotton: We have marcos here
18:02:39 <koalie> ... picture element was used as an example
18:02:50 <koalie> ... can we use this to benchmark?
18:02:59 <koalie> MarcosCaceres: Yes and no. Maybe
18:03:22 <tantek> marcosc references https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI/DesignGuidelines
18:03:29 <koalie> ... what we've done at Mozilla: we gathered people
18:03:33 <ArtB> q?
18:03:45 <koalie> ... we came up with a set of use-cases, and needs
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18:04:40 <koalie> ... we put together detailed use-cases
18:04:52 <koalie> ... we showed in code that JS doesn't help you here
18:05:03 <koalie> ... not Web components either
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18:05:15 <koalie> ... we exposed all the limitations of the platform
18:05:20 <koalie> ... and started talking about solutions
18:05:34 <koalie> ... having the guidelines Robin mentioned was helpful
18:05:50 <koalie> ... the bar needs to remain high
18:06:07 <koalie> ... and frame the discussion properly
18:06:13 <koalie> ack mch
18:06:14 <tantek> q+ to ask if anyone here is actually publishing HTML with the <picture> element on their own site *today*, and if so, please share the URL. Anyone?
18:06:26 <koalie> MikeChampion: several conflicting themes
18:06:31 <MarkVickers> q+
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18:06:54 <marcosc> Mozilla's guidelines: https://wiki.mozilla.org/WebAPI/DesignGuidelines
18:07:04 <ArtB> q+ Geoffrey
18:07:08 <tantek> marcosc: yup referenced it above
18:07:21 <marcosc> tantek: thanks!
18:07:27 <koalie> ... who has to be in the loop to get a good spec? will there be bottlenecks?
18:07:42 <koalie> Robin: my plan is to steal Marcos' documents :)
18:07:52 <koalie> ... Marcos talked about mentoring and I think this is key
18:08:29 <koalie> ... I think that by bringing people to the table, and they get mentoring, then we can help foster the creation of new editors
18:09:15 <koalie> Brian: We talk about who can write a good spec
18:09:29 <koalie> ... danger of writing specs that nobody can implement
18:09:32 <brutzman> Present+ brutzman
18:09:41 <koalie> ... I think we have a tendency to make things a binary line
18:09:51 <koalie> ... part of what marcos is saying we need more mentoring
18:09:56 <ArtB> q?
18:10:20 <koalie> ... the other thing: what makes standards valuable has nothing to do with quality, but the fact that they're standards
18:11:07 <koalie> Brian: I would like to throw out there too that this isn't something that happened here first
18:11:31 <ArtB> ack tantek
18:11:31 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to ask if anyone here is actually publishing HTML with the <picture> element on their own site *today*, and if so, please share the URL. Anyone?
18:11:35 <koalie> ... a standard that you can't get implemented is no good and a huge waste of time
18:11:44 <koalie> TantekÇelik: good segue Brian
18:11:56 <SimonSapin> q+
18:12:08 <koalie> ... who has published the picture element?
18:12:18 <koalie> Marcos: you're asking the wrong crowd
18:12:25 <koalie> ... Building it into WP @@
18:12:44 <koalie> Tantek: There are pollyfills
18:12:55 <koalie> Tantek: republish the picture element and consider this a success
18:13:20 <ArtB> ack MarkVickers
18:13:33 <koalie> MarkVickers: We have had success in having dozens of changes made
18:13:36 <tantek> I'm shocked that ZERO people in this room use the <picture> element on their own site.
18:13:37 <koalie> ... it hasn't been easy
18:13:59 <koalie> ... working with W3C and WHATWG
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18:14:00 <dka> One data point on this: we have a responsive image on the TAG home page (http://w3.org/tag) though we are using srcset. The plan is to move that to the picture element.
18:14:11 <marcosc> tantek, the use case for picture is for art direction - it's not that common.
18:14:15 <koalie> ... it takes an incredible commitment from the organisation
18:14:27 <koalie> ... Second thing: I liked all in Robin's presentataion
18:14:35 <koalie> ... question: How does it all come back to the platform?
18:14:40 <koalie> s/tataion/tation/
18:15:11 <koalie> MarkVickers: We have to make sure that as an application paltform we don't branch and end up with several webs
18:15:16 <tantek> so apparently there is zero dogfooding of the <picture> element?
18:15:38 <koalie> Robin: the idea (subject to change and discussion), a proposal is listed as such,
18:15:55 <koalie> ... when you have tests and implementations you move that to the develop branch
18:16:10 <paulc_> q?
18:16:19 <marcosc> tantek, a lot of the time you don't need it. You actually need a site with images (and not just background images, for which you use CSS image-set()).
18:16:23 <tantek> bkardell_: re: your calling bullshit on standards, I'm calling bullshit on proposals without public real world live examples by those proposing them.
18:16:24 <paulc_> q+
18:16:37 <koalie> ... and once you have a test suite that is rough and shows interoperability, it moves to the @@ branch
18:16:52 <koalie> ... mergability is an important idea here
18:17:03 <tantek> marcosc: my point is without live examples, we should not believe that a proposal is actually workable and satisfies the use-cases it is supposedly designed/proposed to solve.
18:17:19 <koalie> Robin: There is a way to bring that back and avoid fragmentation
18:17:26 <marcosc> tantek: http://responsiveimages.org/demos/
18:17:35 <koalie> Art: Do we have some people from PSIG?
18:17:38 <ArtB> ack Geoffrey
18:17:50 <tantek> marcosc: I did specifically ask for non-test/demo pages.
18:17:58 <tantek> *deliberately
18:18:07 <rubys> q+
18:18:09 <marcosc> tantek: microsoft.com
18:18:33 <koalie> GeoffreyCreighton: what caught my attention: no direct @@ capability of a W3C draft recommendation
18:18:44 <koalie> ... open process but not accessible?
18:18:50 <koalie> Robin: Mmmm... no
18:19:03 <koalie> ... I'd distinguish the platform and publication process
18:19:07 <tantek> marcosc: http://viewsource.in/microsoft.com - no <picture> element found
18:19:10 <marcosc> tantek: search for data-picture=""
18:19:12 <rubys> q-
18:19:12 <koalie> ... I don't think this contradicts in any way the process
18:19:17 <marcosc> tantek: it's prollyfilled
18:19:33 <koalie> Robin: This all fits with consensus and things from the process
18:19:55 <ArtB> q?
18:20:10 <bkardell_> q?
18:20:11 <ArtB> ack SimonSapin
18:20:12 <koalie> SimonSapin: co-editor on two specs, and I don't know what I'm doing
18:20:13 <tantek> marcosc: one instance of data-picture="" - doesn't look like any actual use of anything resembling.
18:20:15 <ArtB> q?
18:20:19 <dka> q?
18:20:24 <dka> q+
18:20:29 <koalie> ... when Brian mentions @@, I want to know how to do it
18:20:40 <tantek> paulc_: expresses support for modularity idea
18:20:41 <marcosc> q+
18:20:47 <tantek> ack paulc_
18:20:56 <koalie> PaulCotton: What really worked in HTML Wg was breaking the work into smaller pieces
18:20:56 <astearns> s/@@/mentoring/
18:20:57 <bkardell_> q+
18:20:58 <dka> +1 to modularity!
18:20:58 <tantek> I also agree with modularity as a path forward
18:20:59 <tantek> 
18:21:30 <koalie> PaulCotton: Mentoring people is a compelling part of your proposal
18:21:38 <koalie> DanAppelquist: +1 to modularity
18:21:46 <ArtB> ack dka
18:21:47 <SimonSapin> s/@@/mentoring on how to write specs/
18:21:54 <koalie> ... devil in the detail is re: IPR associated to contributions
18:22:11 <koalie> ... how do you track that?
18:22:13 <brutzman> q+
18:22:17 <paulc_> q+
18:22:18 <koalie> ... does it mean we need to change the process?
18:22:53 <marcosc> tantek: I can get you a list of sites easily if you want.
18:23:00 <marcosc> tantek: but after this thing
18:23:10 <koalie> ... when somebody turns the crank and a module ends up in TR space and we can trace IPR as we have been with the W3C RF process up till now
18:23:16 <ArtB> q?
18:23:20 <koalie> Brian: At least as happy as we've bene in the mailing list
18:23:26 <tantek> marcosc: there should be a simple URL (perhaps on w3.org/wiki/Picture ) that lists those sites - no need to "get" such a list to me.
18:23:44 <tantek> marcosc: this I see as a failure of <picture> advocates to document their work
18:24:05 <koalie> Robin: This is an improvement: not only can we trace back with contributions.md
18:24:18 <koalie> Dan: somebody needs to write the version of that for the process
18:24:35 <koalie> Robin: my understanding (IANAL) is that it's process compliant
18:24:41 <marcosc> tantek: that's like saying X Element in HTML is a failure because not everyone uses it on their site.
18:24:49 <koalie> ... I'd be happy for actual lawyers to review that
18:24:50 <astearns> I'd suggest changing "failure of" to "suggestion for", tantek
18:25:19 <koalie> SteveFaulkner: I'm trying to understand how that's going to work
18:25:35 <tantek> q+ to agree modularity++ and strictly so - all additions (new features) to HTML5 should be done as HTML5 Extensions and the only updates to HTML5 should be errata/bugfixes - 5.0.1 5.0.2 … etc. No 5.1 nor 6 etc.
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18:27:09 <ArtB> ack marcosc
18:27:45 <koalie> Marcos: if you're going to fork more things, how do you convince mozilla and the webkit folks etc.?
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18:27:57 <koalie> Robin: this is not meant to be a hostile project
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18:28:14 <koalie> ... the way I've been thinking about it is you want to make a spec, or a module, links could go both ways
18:28:25 <koalie> ... we could reference the WHATWG spec
18:28:35 <ArtB> q?
18:28:42 <koalie> Marcos: It's not about hostility
18:29:01 <koalie> ... how are we going to manage @@difference?
18:29:07 <koalie> Robin: This is up for discussion
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18:29:24 <koalie> ... e.g. sortable tables
18:29:42 <ArtB> ack bkardell_
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18:30:01 <koalie> BrianKardell: I want to be careful we don't narrow it to HTML only or github only
18:30:06 <tantek_> marcosc: I do think that *numerous* new elements in HTML5 are a failure because there is zero or nearly zero real world consumers of them besides styling them as special divs or spans.
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18:30:25 <koalie> BrianKardell: don't break the web is a hard problem
18:31:35 <koalie> ... we have new challenges: how do we evolve thousands of developers
18:31:55 <koalie> ... I want to ask the broader questions.
18:32:26 <koalie> TantekÇelik: there is the myth of the Extensible Web Manifesto, my point is that the picture element does not even follow that path
18:32:28 <brutzman> Web3D Consortium is evolving X3D Graphics international standard into v4 to fully align with HTML 5.  Keen to keep declarative 3D content architecturally synched/complementary/aligned while 1000 hacks bloom.
18:32:57 <koalie> DonBrutzman: Web3D consortium
18:33:12 <koalie> ... How do we stay inline, in sync, and compatible, that's our concern
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18:33:22 <koalie> ... we'll be looking for stability, still
18:33:34 <brutzman> Web3D Consortium is evolving X3D Graphics international standard into v4 to fully align with HTML 5.  Keen to keep declarative 3D content architecturally synched/complementary while 1000 hacks bloom.
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18:33:44 <koalie> PaulCotton: I'd feel way more comfortable as a chair knowing where the changes are coming
18:33:48 <tantek> what Paul said
18:33:54 <tantek> PaulCotton++
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18:34:08 <koalie> ... chairs are supposed to make sure they understand the provenance of changes
18:34:09 <dka> +1
18:34:12 <marcosc__> tantek: see, http://usecases.responsiveimages.org/#limitations-of-current-techniques
18:34:23 <marcosc__> tantek: in particular: http://css-tricks.com/which-responsive-images-solution-should-you-use/
18:34:28 <AWK> q?
18:34:29 <MarkVickers> +1
18:34:36 <koalie> ... let's find how to change the process to use this model
18:34:41 <tantek> q?
18:34:42 <koalie> q?
18:34:45 <koalie> ack brutzman
18:34:47 <koalie> ack p
18:34:49 <koalie> ack t
18:34:49 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to agree modularity++ and strictly so - all additions (new features) to HTML5 should be done as HTML5 Extensions and the only updates to HTML5 should be
18:34:52 <Zakim> ... errata/bugfixes - 5.0.1 5.0.2 … etc. No 5.1 nor 6 etc.
18:35:03 <koalie> TantekÇelik: +1 Paul
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18:35:25 <koalie> ... I want to add to "be more modular" to take a bold step
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18:35:28 <dka> Does “more modular” mean that we don’t issue a HTML 5.1?
18:35:32 <abarsto> q?
18:35:39 <koalie> ... draw a hard line
18:35:56 <koalie> ... bug fixes and errata only, and let's say there will not be an HTML 5.1
18:36:03 <wy> wy has joined #after5
18:36:03 <koalie> ... now is the opportunity to make that decision
18:36:09 <abarsto> q?
18:36:14 <koalie> Robin: I agree and that's my natural inclination
18:36:21 <koalie> ... the only drawback I've heard is
18:36:34 <koalie> ... that it's @@@
18:36:56 <astearns> s/@@@/the problem of knowing what parts of CSS 2.1 have been superseded/
18:36:58 <koalie> DanielGlazman: you end up with specialised groups you cannot take the discussion to the main group
18:37:09 <rubys> q+ to suggest the need for a 5.1: to address the technical debt that we have with a monolithic spec
18:37:28 <koalie> ... it helped the CSS WG survive to use modularisation
18:37:43 <koalie> DanAppelquist: the world is looking
18:37:52 <stone> stone has joined #after5
18:37:56 <abarsto> q?
18:37:56 <koalie> ... and might ask when HTML 5.1 is coming
18:38:00 <miterho> q+
18:38:01 <koalie> ... it might require some marketing
18:38:15 <koalie> ... e.g people are still talking about CSS3
18:38:25 <abarsto> q?
18:38:29 <abarsto> ack rubys
18:38:29 <Zakim> rubys, you wanted to suggest the need for a 5.1: to address the technical debt that we have with a monolithic spec
18:38:39 <MarkVickers> q+
18:38:49 <koalie> SamRuby: I agree, but: we need a 5.1 to address the technical debt
18:38:58 <koalie> Robin: Yes, there is a technical debt
18:39:11 <paulc> q+
18:39:13 <koalie> ... when a bug is big enough, does it justify a new extension?
18:39:19 <koalie> ... we'll need to figure it out
18:39:24 <tantek> q+ to reply to Sam re: "split that spec up" It's a trap!
18:39:44 <abarsto> ack miterho
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18:40:32 <koalie> MikkoThero: I recommend or support the wise decision to fix HTML5 and go to modular
18:40:33 <abarsto> ack MarkVickers
18:41:11 <abarsto> ack paulc
18:41:13 <koalie> MarkVickers: getting off a ladder can be done [gives example of intel pentium]
18:42:03 <koalie> PaulCotton: Huge extension, featured in HTML5 today, "applicable spec"
18:42:14 <koalie> ... we have the hook in the spec today that we need to add new modules
18:42:16 <youngwoojo_> q+ plh
18:42:18 <tantek> paulc++ "we have the hook that we need in HTML5 today to add new modules, new extensions"
18:42:19 <marcosc__> +q
18:42:40 <koalie> ... we need to find the right candidates and figure out how to use that hook.
18:42:42 <tantek> paulc: "we have the facility to do the modularity. we need to find the right candidates, in the HTMLWG in particular, and figure out how to use that hook."
18:42:45 <marcosc> q-
18:42:49 <marcosc> -q
18:42:49 <koalie> Zakim, close the queue
18:42:49 <abarsto> ack tantek
18:42:50 <Zakim> ok, koalie, the speaker queue is closed
18:42:50 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to reply to Sam re: "split that spec up" It's a trap!
18:43:09 <koalie> TantekÇelik: danger of modules never getting done
18:43:19 <koalie> ... I'd recommend to talk to those who have been burned.
18:43:21 <abarsto> ack plh
18:43:22 <koalie> ... talk to me
18:43:38 <koalie> PhilippeLeHegare: Plenty of other WGs are working on HTML at W3C
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18:43:50 <abarsto> q?
18:43:52 <koalie> ... it would be nice that extension fit in
18:43:57 <abarsto> ack marcosc__
18:44:02 <tantek> koalie: specifically danger of modules of breaking up HTML5 itself
18:44:15 <koalie> MarcosCaceres: I would expect specs to fail. that's ok
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18:44:35 <tantek> agrees on both of marcosc points.
18:44:42 <tantek> or all three ;)
18:45:06 <koalie> tantek, if you've got them, please, write them down
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18:45:15 <marcosc> MC: spec is hard to extend because it's self referential
18:45:22 <tantek> marcosc: said: 1) ok that specs fail, 2) HTML spec is heavily interwoven, 3) appears to be [job] security for Hixie
18:45:31 <koalie> BrianKardell: Talk to me, I'd be happy to say more. Including in a bar.
18:45:34 <paulc> rrsagent, generate the minutes
18:45:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-after5-minutes.html paulc
18:45:41 <koalie> Marcos: Let's try this new model!
18:45:59 <koalie> RobinBerjon: Thank you
18:46:05 <koalie> ... heartening to see so many people interested
18:46:11 <tantek> q+ to say would be ok with an HTML 5.1 if it was a *strict* subset of HTML5. I am ok with an ever shrinking core HTML5.x spec and the rest spun out into modules.
18:46:17 <hoyounkim> hoyounkim has left #after5
18:46:18 <koalie> ... donut bea scared! come at the table we'll figure it out
18:46:22 <tantek> I would be ok with an HTML 5.1 if it was a *strict* subset of HTML5. I am ok with an ever shrinking core HTML5.x spec and the rest spun out into modules.
18:46:27 <abarsto> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:46:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-after5-minutes.html abarsto
18:46:28 <koalie> s/bea/be/
18:46:34 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
18:46:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-after5-minutes.html koalie
18:47:16 <koalie> chair: Art_Barstow
18:47:17 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
18:47:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-after5-minutes.html koalie
18:47:37 <koalie> s/<koalie> ->/<koaliie> ->/G
18:47:38 <koalie> RRSagent, make minutes
18:47:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/29-after5-minutes.html koalie
18:48:21 <rubys> rubys has joined #after5
18:48:42 <koalie> RRSAgent, bye
18:48:42 <RRSAgent> I see no action items