IRC log of tt on 2014-10-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:27 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-irc

13:59:29 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:59:29 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #tt

13:59:31 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be TTML

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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

13:59:32 [trackbot]

Date: 23 October 2014

14:00:07 [nigel]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:00:07 [Zakim]

SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, nigel

14:00:09 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, jdsmith, nigel, glenn, trackbot

14:00:31 [nigel]

zakim, this is ttml

14:00:32 [Zakim]

ok, nigel; that matches SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM

14:01:39 [nigel]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:01:39 [Zakim]

On the phone I see jdsmith, nigel

14:02:02 [nigel]

chair: nigel

14:02:11 [nigel]

Present: jdsmith, nigel

14:02:46 [nigel]

Regrets: Mike

14:03:08 [courtney]

courtney has joined #tt

14:03:41 [Zakim]

+ +1.408.771.aaaa

14:04:03 [nigel]

zakim, aaaa is courtney

14:04:03 [Zakim]

+courtney; got it

14:04:34 [nigel]

Present+ courtney

14:04:54 [nigel]

scribeNick: nigel

14:07:21 [Zakim]

+pal

14:07:40 [nigel]

Present+ pal

14:08:28 [nigel]

Topic: Santa Clara F2F October (TPAC)

14:08:34 [nigel]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2014

14:11:35 [nigel]

nigel: I've set aside Monday for a variety of things and Tuesday for TTML2, and added multimodal interaction and audio rendering.

14:13:17 [nigel]

jdsmith: Will the audio rendering include use cases and scenarios

14:13:28 [nigel]

nigel: Yes, e.g. audio description scripting or captured speech markup

14:14:26 [Zakim]

+glenn

14:14:33 [nigel]

Present+ glenn

14:15:40 [nigel]

nigel: In the absence of other info I'll define lunch to be at 12:30

14:16:06 [nigel]

... and morning break at 10:00 and afternoon break 15:30.

14:16:12 [nigel]

... but of course we can be flexible.

14:16:52 [nigel]

Topic: IMSC CR Exit Criteria

14:18:03 [nigel]

nigel: We have a choice about putting in exit criteria. I've listed some considerations in the agenda.

14:18:14 [pal]

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14:18:55 [nigel]

pal: I'm still gathering information. There are already entry criteria for PR. Those steps are clear.

14:19:46 [nigel]

nigel: The steps are clear but the fulfillment of them is unclear to me - at least we have quite a lot of flexibility.

14:20:03 [nigel]

pal: That's deliberate; some flexibility is useful for the working group.

14:20:34 [nigel]

nigel: Yes, and for this document we have to resolve the flexibility into a decision.

14:22:42 [nigel]

pal: Section 7.2.4 describes the implementation considerations.

14:23:51 [nigel]

nigel: There are a whole bunch of other questions that fall under those too (e.g. what's listed in the agenda)

14:24:06 [nigel]

http://www.w3.org/2014/Process-20140801/#implementation-experience

14:25:23 [nigel]

nigel: My view is it would be useful to state criteria now so we know when to move to PR.

14:25:44 [nigel]

pal: We don't need to do it now though - we can wait until after testing has started.

14:26:15 [nigel]

glenn: The criteria can be as weak as we want to make them. For example the HTML spec followed a weak definition of adequacy.

14:27:00 [nigel]

nigel: I agree: I listed the considerations that we should think about - we don't have to use them all.

14:27:16 [nigel]

glenn: We need a story for each of the bullets in 7.2.4.

14:27:35 [nigel]

pal: In the 2005 process 'adequate implementation experience' was undefined, whereas in the 2014 process

14:27:49 [nigel]

... it is listed. By definition we have to show the Director we have a good answer for each of those bullets.

14:28:05 [nigel]

glenn: That list isn't exhaustive or mandatory though. It's a 'some of the things that will be considered'.

14:28:29 [nigel]

... For example, feature implementation will be considered. When we went to CR with TTML1 originally we faced the issue

14:28:50 [nigel]

... of what it means to specify a feature. This was related to the test suite requirements, and that drove our definition

14:29:02 [nigel]

... of features in the profiling mechanism, and our enumeration of those features in the spec.

14:29:24 [nigel]

... By enumerating them that gave us a list of things we knew we had to test and talk about re implementation activity.

14:29:37 [nigel]

... That's how we did it in TTML1. We can define features for testing however we want.

14:30:02 [nigel]

pal: In my view the WG should keep its options open so it can declare when it thinks it has got far enough to move to PR.

14:30:25 [nigel]

glenn: I agree with that. The point about feature implementation is expected to be talked about in the transition process.

14:30:41 [nigel]

... So you might want to consider enumerating the features of IMSC that would be considered criteria for testing

14:30:55 [nigel]

... implementations. It doesn't require that every syntactic or semantic point be labelled as a feature - it can be

14:30:59 [nigel]

... generalised for example.

14:31:17 [nigel]

pal: I started a wiki page where we will be able to do that, which will also serve as the implementation report.

14:31:31 [pal]

https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/IMSC1_Implementation_Report

14:32:00 [nigel]

pal: This is a place where we'll be able to list the features, sample files and the implementation experience we've

14:32:02 [nigel]

... received.

14:33:44 [nigel]

nigel: From a project planning perspective we need some deliverable that we can target, and that needs to be defined.

14:33:57 [nigel]

nigel: I'll present my thoughts on Monday on this.

14:34:28 [nigel]

Topic: WebVTT publication

14:34:43 [nigel]

http://dev.w3.org/html5/webvtt/webvtt-staged-snapshot.html

14:35:40 [nigel]

Proposal: publish the staged snapshot of WebVTT as a FPWD.

14:37:09 [nigel]

RESOLUTION: We will publish the staged snapshot of WebVTT as a FPWD.

14:38:43 [nigel]

glenn: That draft references the DOM4 spec and the Encoding Spec. I believe there are now W3C counterparts to those.

14:38:53 [nigel]

glenn: Can we change those before going to FPWD?

14:39:20 [nigel]

... Also HTML - all are referenced as WHATWG and I'd like to see them changed to the W3C versions if that can be done.

14:39:29 [nigel]

... That's the only blocking issue for me.

14:40:06 [nigel]

nigel: I think the way to do that is to file a bug using the link in the top right.

14:40:10 [nigel]

glenn: okay I'll do that.

14:41:02 [nigel]

s/RESOLUTION: We will publish the staged snapshot of WebVTT as a FPWD./

14:41:26 [nigel]

nigel: We'll carry this forward proposal to Monday.

14:42:14 [nigel]

Proposal: use http://www.w3.org/TR/webvtt1/ for the short name.

14:42:30 [nigel]

Topic: Action items

14:42:56 [nigel]

action-283?

14:42:56 [trackbot]

action-283 -- Nigel Megitt to And dsinger to respond to mpeg liaison -- due 2014-11-01 -- OPEN

14:42:56 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/283

14:43:57 [nigel]

action-283: Mike and Dave responded on TTWG's behalf with edits from Nigel and Cyril.

14:43:58 [trackbot]

Notes added to action-283 And dsinger to respond to mpeg liaison.

14:44:19 [nigel]

close action-283

14:44:19 [trackbot]

Closed action-283.

14:44:30 [nigel]

action-332?

14:44:30 [trackbot]

action-332 -- Glenn Adams to Add schema support for ISD vocabulary -- due 2014-10-27 -- OPEN

14:44:30 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/332

14:45:00 [nigel]

glenn: Still working on this one.

14:45:14 [nigel]

action-333?

14:45:14 [trackbot]

action-333 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Create a one pager to cover the plan for the director's meeting for taking imsc1 to cr. -- due 2014-10-27 -- OPEN

14:45:14 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/333

14:45:45 [nigel]

pal: That's in progress, dependent on completing the response to comments received during the review period, scheduled for Monday.

14:46:32 [nigel]

Topic: Issues raised

14:47:31 [nigel]

nigel: I raised 3 issues to cover the steps needed for the external short code processor profile parameter.

14:47:41 [nigel]

... In order they are issue-353, issue-351 and issue-352

14:47:45 [nigel]

issue-353?

14:47:45 [trackbot]

issue-353 -- Normatively define short code processorProfiles parameter -- raised

14:47:45 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/353

14:47:50 [nigel]

issue-351?

14:47:50 [trackbot]

issue-351 -- Update IANA registration for TTML2 -- raised

14:47:50 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/351

14:47:53 [nigel]

issue-352?

14:47:53 [trackbot]

issue-352 -- Add Media Registration Annex -- raised

14:47:53 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/352

14:50:48 [nigel]

glenn: I would prefer to put all of these into a separate document, not TTML2.

14:51:02 [nigel]

... We could publish a WG Note for example that contains these three items.

14:51:35 [nigel]

nigel: Is there any particular reason not to put it in TTML2?

14:51:55 [nigel]

glenn: We had a lot of iterations with IANA to get it into TTML1 so it would be good to disconnect it.

14:52:10 [nigel]

... Plus there's nothing normative in TTML2 that needs to make reference to it. In fact its the other way round -

14:52:26 [nigel]

... This material might make reference to TTML2 but nothing in TTML2 normatively needs to make use of it right now.

14:52:41 [nigel]

... It's strictly a function for people embedding TTML2 in MPEG etc.

14:52:57 [nigel]

nigel: I'd go further - there's no reason it shouldn't apply to TTML1 too.

14:53:17 [nigel]

nigel: We don't have a product for this yet - I guess we can add one.

14:53:41 [nigel]

glenn: Also we need to understand the issue of what it means if both the profile and processorProfiles parameters

14:54:03 [nigel]

... are included simultaneously. How does that impact backward compatibility etc?

14:54:41 [nigel]

nigel: That makes sense to me as long as e.g. MPEG is happy to reference a WG Note rather than a Recommendation.

14:55:26 [nigel]

Action: nigel Check with the MPEG folk if a WG Note would be acceptable.

14:55:26 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-341 - Check with the mpeg folk if a wg note would be acceptable. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-10-30].

14:56:11 [nigel]

Action-341: If a Note is okay, create a Product and reassign issue-351, issue-352 and issue-353 to that product.

14:56:11 [trackbot]

Notes added to Action-341 Check with the mpeg folk if a wg note would be acceptable..

14:56:28 [nigel]

nigel: We'll follow that up on Monday or Tuesday.

14:56:32 [glenn]

re: WebVTT FPWD, see new bug report at https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27142 to resolve my concerns

14:57:12 [nigel]

Topic: Change Proposals - progress and review

14:57:27 [nigel]

nigel: I should add this topic to the agenda for Tuesday since its a dependency for TTML2 currently.

14:57:45 [nigel]

Action: nigel Add Change Proposals to the TPAC agenda for Tuesday

14:57:46 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-342 - Add change proposals to the tpac agenda for tuesday [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-10-30].

14:58:32 [Zakim]

-courtney

14:58:33 [Zakim]

-glenn

14:58:35 [Zakim]

-pal

14:58:37 [Zakim]

-jdsmith

14:58:52 [nigel]

nigel: We'll meet at 8:30 California time in whatever room we're meeting in - happy travels to those travelling, and see you then.

14:58:57 [nigel]

nigel: Adjourns meeting.

14:59:02 [Zakim]

-nigel

14:59:03 [Zakim]

SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended

14:59:03 [Zakim]

Attendees were jdsmith, nigel, +1.408.771.aaaa, courtney, pal, glenn

14:59:18 [nigel]

rrsagent, generate minutes

14:59:18 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-minutes.html nigel

15:01:01 [nigel]

rrsagent, make logs public

15:01:14 [nigel]

rrsagent, generate minutes

15:01:14 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-minutes.html nigel

15:07:19 [nigel]

ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics

15:07:23 [nigel]

rrsagent, generate minutes

15:07:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/10/23-tt-minutes.html nigel

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